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2015/07/04 22:48:11
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Those WHW terrain pics on Atia's twitter look amazing...but I struggle to get excited about GW's terrain these days until we've seen the actual boxes, because the stuff stores and WHW build is often essentially impossible for ordinary punters to replicate, given they use dozens or hundreds of repeats of a component that you only get once or twice in a £30+ kit.
The aesthetic is an issue as well of course, doesn't fit with Old World Warhammer fluff at all normally, but if it turns out the WHW pics are somewhat representative of what you can achieve with new sets, they should make for a decent ruined Temple of Sigmar for Mordheim gaming. Might work as Elven ruins if you scrape away all the Sigmarine carvings.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/04 22:49:44
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2015/07/04 22:48:32
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
One thing I do dislike about AoS is the way everything is measured from the model itself, rather than the base. Quite apart from the obvious potential damage caused by careless opponents standing their stuff on your bases, it could encourage MFA. Are models supposed to be permanently frozen in the pose we modelled them in? Should a knight with sword outstretched really have an easier time hitting than a model from exactly the same unit, except with his sword in his belt? Will every pikeman with his weapon raised always have an easier time hitting flying enemies than those right in front of him? Using bases, and having standard base sizes, seems to me to be a much more sensible way of representing a model's "personal space."
It's easy to house rule this away by going back to measuring from bases. But you can't guarantee that someone will be willing to do this in a pick-up game.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/07/04 22:53:51
Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics.
2015/07/04 22:52:07
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
And again more unit fillers means less miniatures sold and less moey in the Mantic coffers.
OOoooooooo!!!
I was already planning to get Mantic Gargoyles to use as Slaaneshi Furies, as Dark Elf Harpies are way too expensive, and I'd be much happier with those Succubi as Daemonettes than the current palstic models!
I was thinking of getting Beastmen if Warhammer 9th had been enticing. If Mantic start making something that works as that sort of unit, they'll have found a solid new customer in me.
I think that some of the Mantic stuff works for the regimental models as they are designed to have a nice unit profile on the board and rank up well. Overall a lot of the models are individually lacking compared to general GW unit sculpts. Those Succubi work well as they rank up nicely and I'd also get them but the other gargoyle guys (with the flames in the hands) are not good models unfortunately.
As has been said earlier the Mantic Undead stuff is quite nice but a lot of the other stuff is well below GW's aesthetic. If there is a large number of players ignoring AoS to play KoW it is still highly likely that they will stick to GW fantasy models through the current range and second hand market
A grudge never too old to settle with metal and ire on the funeral pyre of vanquished foe
2015/07/04 22:52:56
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
7th ed 40k is a improvement on 6th, and I'm having massive amounts of fun both in casual and tournament games (as is my gaming group). I played in a tournament recently with the new Eldar book and had the most fun I've ever had with the game, and my opponents loved it as well. So I'd say 40k is in excellent shape right now.
Pretty anecdotal though, when their sales are falling quite a lot.
And it also doesn't jive with the dakka population as a whole either.
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
"Wheels within wheels, in a spiral array, a pattern so grand and complex.
Time after time we lose sight of the way, our causes can't see their effects."
2015/07/04 23:01:37
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Heres is the thing tho mate, the rules are free you have the models. If you give the game a go even on your spare time you are really risking or losing nothing and giving them not a single dollar more. You see if things work FOR FREE !!!!! :d which is what won me over... and the fact the starter has khorne in it lol
KoW is free as well, but unlike this its actually balanced, tactical (positioning, flanks and rear attacks matter), streamlined and the rules are playable! (no endless debates about rules interpretations or whats balanced)
KoW is as balanced as any previous edition of WFB until you get to army lists, which is where game balance crumbles in many games including 40k, WFB and KoW.
When KoW's current edition started out, you could play using and against most armies without serious issue.
Still, there were crazy small unit spam issues with elves and later when they made a good army of humans with angel support, it was very possible to come up with overpowered stuff if you wanted to do that.
It's the special rules and tweaking up stats/lowering unit prices that screws up rules balance.
Thread Slayer
2015/07/04 23:06:39
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Fezman wrote: One thing I do dislike about AoS is the way everything is measured from the model itself, rather than the base.
Yes, this is the worst flaw with the core rules.
Seems added just before release (so not to anger the "I will not rebase"-crowd) - as even a single playtest would have shown:
- models having to move/charge sideways or backwards in order to maximize distance (no facing and turning reduces movement)
- miniatures piling up on eachothers bases in order to reach within melee weapon range.
- models on flying stands becoming impossible to hit in melee.
- models on large bases forcing opponents to place their minis on top of that base in order to reach the mini.
- models being equipped with very long pikes in order to maximize how many that can attack a character.
- ...
Having mixed (square/round of different sizes) bases and measure from them would on the other hand just create minimal problems.
I actually expect this to change with the first FAQ.
2015/07/04 23:06:54
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
kendoka wrote: I like the simplicity of "the Avian Way" of specifying maximum Unit Size*,
(ToHit x ToWound)/Wounds=Unit Size
i.e.
DE Bleakswords would be (3x4)/1 = max 12 models/warscroll.
DE Darkshards would be (5x4)/1 = max 20 models/warscroll.
DE Dark Riders would be (5x4)/2 = max 10 models/warscroll.
Would make an excellent starting point.
However, as Save is as important as Wounds in order to survive, Save should be part of the equation.
And special rules aswell (rend, mortal wounds, darkshields, etc.), 9 Executioners are way better than 12 Bleakswords.
*Unit size is also more suited to AoS and the Warscrolls than a points value/model.
This is nifty thinking.
Agreed, very clever.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote: Now that we have the rules and images, is anything left for rumors?
Later releases. We already know there are more sigmarites; there's rumors of other stuff as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/04 23:12:30
2015/07/04 23:14:39
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
That was fast and youve done a really nice job. I'm hoping there'll be some alternate colour schemes in the book I can go for... maybe something in red...
Dead account, no takesy-backsies
2015/07/04 23:18:19
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
That was fast and youve done a really nice job. I'm hoping there'll be some alternate colour schemes in the book I can go for... maybe something in red...
You should see the Store versions here just spray gold and blue dabs they aren't even trying.
You know it's much nicer than the ones on the website. Start a plog it be cool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/04 23:19:11
2015/07/04 23:27:58
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
That was fast and youve done a really nice job. I'm hoping there'll be some alternate colour schemes in the book I can go for... maybe something in red...
There is 6 different examples in the book (not all of them using gold which is good) but they basically say that there is so many different types of storm hosts that only sigmar knows their true numbers. aka paint it how you want and it will still fit fluff wise.
Orks
GreyKnights
Admech
2015/07/04 23:59:43
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off.
That's just it, though... If those rules are going to be ignored in the majority of games, then there's really no point in them being there in the first place.
Unless, of course, you're only expecting your customers to play the game a couple of times before moving on to something else...
I see what you're trying to do there but the comedy rules are in the legacy warscrolls, the new units don't have them. Yes, the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules that better represent the factions of the new fluff in time, or else gradually phased out, so yes - it's not an issue that people will stop doing the silly voices etc before long.
So they just released these new rules not even one day ago and already the faith of many a WHF player's enjoyment of the game rests on the expectation that another set of replacement rules may or may not be provided to us at some point in the future...
No, you misunderstand, I think this is it for rules for the existing line but doubtless more stuff will be added to the game in the future and the old stuff will be phased out. How you got "you're expecting another set of replacement rules" from that I have no idea.
The part I bolded, you wrote that right?
You quite clearly say:
the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules... or else gradually phased out
The legacy stuff (which we just got new rules for) will be superceded... superceding something = replacing it... aka the rules we just got for the legacy stuff will be replaced by new rules = another set of replacement rules.
So what exactly am I misunderstanding?
Missed this earlier. Well, TBD, by saying "Another replacement ruleset", you made it sound as though I was saying I expected another, better iteration of the warscroll compendiums - which isn't what I was suggesting, but rather that in time new rules will be released for Age of Sigmar that will most likely incorporate some of the existing range. Your choice of ellipsis in that quote removes the part that makes it make sense, where I state the new rules will be for representing the new order, chaos, etc factions in AoS.
A new book - call it Age of Sigmar book 1, or something - that includes, hypothetically, Chaos and Order, and within that rules for Chaos Warriors and say, State Troops for example, no, I wouldn't classify that as "another replacement set of rules [even though they] just released these rules not one day ago".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
That was fast and youve done a really nice job. I'm hoping there'll be some alternate colour schemes in the book I can go for... maybe something in red...
There is 6 different examples in the book (not all of them using gold which is good) but they basically say that there is so many different types of storm hosts that only sigmar knows their true numbers. aka paint it how you want and it will still fit fluff wise.
Gotcha. Red it is!
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2015/07/05 00:06:20
Dead account, no takesy-backsies
2015/07/05 00:12:34
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Are those hosts all of 1000 warriors, each subdivided into hostesses of 100 and valets of 10?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
migooo wrote: You should see the Store versions here just spray gold and blue dabs they aren't even trying.
You know it's much nicer than the ones on the website. Start a plog it be cool.
There's no excuse for that. To me, the biggest draw is the physical models! These guys are very easy to paint in the default scheme, because gold drybrushes nicely, and blue is just an easy color to paint.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/07/05 00:22:58
2015/07/05 00:25:06
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Azreal13 wrote: Are those hosts all of 1000 warriors, each subdivided into hostesses of 100 and valets of 10?
No silly, that would make them almost as Space Marines.
Sigmarine chapters consists of 10.000 warriors (according to the "Gates of Azyr" book preview),
Totally different, just as the sculpt.
2015/07/05 00:34:43
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
privateer4hire wrote: You can ignore the silly/stupid rules options because they're not mandatory, at all.
Says who? You?
Where does it say they are non-mandatory? What part of the rules did I miss where it says "Yeah, but no!" regarding the dancing/screaming/insulting your opponent rules?
So far every time someone has come into this thread and gone "It's not that bad guys!" it is always followed with a "You can just XYZ the rules". Do you realise just how stupid that sounds? If everyone's solution to making the rules of this game work is to not use the rules as they are written then it's a problem with the game, not the people reacting to it. How can anyone not get that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/05 00:35:10
The same way a gak mini launches and people say "actually, if I buy a load of other bits to make it look completely different, it'll be ok! I'll just get 2!"
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Fezman wrote: One thing I do dislike about AoS is the way everything is measured from the model itself, rather than the base. Quite apart from the obvious potential damage caused by careless opponents standing their stuff on your bases, it could encourage MFA. Are models supposed to be permanently frozen in the pose we modelled them in? Should a knight with sword outstretched really have an easier time hitting than a model from exactly the same unit, except with his sword in his belt? Will every pikeman with his weapon raised always have an easier time hitting flying enemies than those right in front of him? Using bases, and having standard base sizes, seems to me to be a much more sensible way of representing a model's "personal space."
It's easy to house rule this away by going back to measuring from bases. But you can't guarantee that someone will be willing to do this in a pick-up game.
At my stores and events I just said we'd measure from the base. Doing it from the model was slowing the game, and causing a ton of problems and bringing up really odd questions. There is a reason we measure from the base. This was a really odd thing to change.
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
2015/07/05 00:45:58
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Melissia wrote: Those look likje they'd fit better as daemonettes than bloodletters.
Why would they need to be something GW? After all this, do you think people are gonna use Mantic proxies to play GW rules?
Yes.
You have bizarre ideas regarding human inertia.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2015/07/05 00:50:32
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
So far every time someone has come into this thread and gone "It's not that bad guys!" it is always followed with a "You can just XYZ the rules". Do you realise just how stupid that sounds? If everyone's solution to making the rules of this game work is to not use the rules as they are written then it's a problem with the game, not the people reacting to it. How can anyone not get that?
You never, ever, use any house-rules at all? You follow every single step in the book without modification, however small? GW games are perfectly written for you and your gang?
"Wheels within wheels, in a spiral array, a pattern so grand and complex.
Time after time we lose sight of the way, our causes can't see their effects."
2015/07/05 00:55:52
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Mort wrote: You never, ever, use any house-rules at all? You follow every single step in the book without modification, however small? GW games are perfectly written for you and your gang?
----------------------------------------------------------------> X
Here is you. That X is the point sailing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over your head.
If you wanted it to be base-agnostic, you could measure from the center of the base -- that would eliminate things like facing and square/round differences.
2015/07/05 00:56:31
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
I was just told the Mantic website was crashing a lot because of all the traffic happening on it. I know I was having trouble getting in to see stuff.
Any comfirmations?
2015/07/05 00:57:27
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Very nicely done! 
Orks
GreyKnights
Admech
