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There's a difference between an un-serious game and one that doesn't take the source material seriously.
I fear that AOS is the latter.

His Master's Voice wrote:

They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it.

What the feth for? The product is out. And the man saying "we want feedback" has already told us there will be no points ever.

So they want feedback, but just the right kind, or what?

Maybe they should have looked for customer input before the release date?

Age of Sigmar is a great idea! There's no WAY that could go wrong!

 TheKbob wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


Me, I'm just glad to have gotten the current set of Warhammer rules for FREE.

Well, and here's the measure of their value: Would you have honestly paid the standard issue $85 for them and another $50 for these "army books" as released with the standard recycled fluff?

I'm betting a great majority of folks saying "AoS ain't that bad!" would sing a different tune. More so when there are better free games out there previously.

If they were all complied and printed into a single book like the 40k3 and bundled with starter armies, I'd have paid $85. That's a fair price to have good quality print and all the lists in one handy reference, with the models at half price.

OTOH, if you're trying to say that anyone would pay $85 for 4 pages of web-quality PDF, plus $50 for 30-ish pages of web-quality PDF, that' plainly foolish. PT Barnum notwithstanding, no, I wouldn't pay Mortons prices for McDonalds food.


Printed Rulebook & Lists alone? I'd pay $20 to have GW print the whole thing for me. That's generally comparable to what I'd pay for other rulebooks.

Just put up details for our first tournament. Threw together some scoring and list building rules, and seeing what happens next.

https://www.facebook.com/ShowcaseComicsGR/posts/993278557371865

 mikhaila wrote:
Just put up details for our first tournament. Threw together some scoring and list building rules, and seeing what happens next.

https://www.facebook.com/ShowcaseComicsGR/posts/993278557371865

I am VERY curious to see how this goes!

 mikhaila wrote:
Just put up details for our first tournament. Threw together some scoring and list building rules, and seeing what happens next.

https://www.facebook.com/ShowcaseComicsGR/posts/993278557371865

Nice effort! I think you may want to change "25 points of Heroes" to 25 wounds of Heroes.

 fellblade wrote:


Oh, there's your problem: you think $85 is a completely reasonable price to pay for a rulebook that doesn't even come with any army lists. GW has done its work well. [Citation Needed]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, no, the $85 core rulebook doesn't work well anymore. We barely saw a blip when 7E relaunched with their massive bloat edition, along with Space Marines. If GW could have charged for AoS, they would have. But through either realization that the rules are bad (not marketable/profitable) or needing to foster a community much like the smaller start ups (or a combo of both) does not bode well for the company. Unless there's some mysteriously third options, which some would say they're wising up or becoming "friendly" and to that I say, nope.

Tell me what flavor of spice you'd like on my hat, so when I'll eat it if GW actually opens back up to be a community based company.

 mikhaila wrote:
Just put up details for our first tournament. Threw together some scoring and list building rules, and seeing what happens next.

https://www.facebook.com/ShowcaseComicsGR/posts/993278557371865

You have some conflicting rules in there. "Summoned units will count against your total wounds" vs "Ignore summoning". I think you may have meant to take that last bullet point out.

Good luck with your tournament.

Tomb kings have an edge for sure when it comes to summoning. Especially with so many units being able to fly above the battlefield untouched or go beneath the sand and self heal

Honestly my skaven army would basically be dead in the water under those rules, but I fielded a couple hordes of stormvermin and slaves, so I suspect my army won't work at all in AoS.

 streamdragon wrote:
Honestly my skaven army would basically be dead in the water under those rules, but I fielded a couple hordes of stormvermin and slaves, so I suspect my army won't work at all in AoS.

You never know unless you give it a shot It might surprise you.

 streamdragon wrote:
Honestly my skaven army would basically be dead in the water under those rules, but I fielded a couple hordes of stormvermin and slaves, so I suspect my army won't work at all in AoS.

Surely there's a rule stating you can place a block of stinky cheese on the table and if your opponent mentions it, you auto-win?

Interesting, List building used to be a huge part of WFB and they threw that out, so they annoyed the Lore fans, the list builders and those who like more intricate rules.

Age of sigmar is 17500yen here in japan, a little too steep for me.

 streamdragon wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Just put up details for our first tournament. Threw together some scoring and list building rules, and seeing what happens next.

https://www.facebook.com/ShowcaseComicsGR/posts/993278557371865

You have some conflicting rules in there. "Summoned units will count against your total wounds" vs "Ignore summoning". I think you may have meant to take that last bullet point out.

Good luck with your tournament.

ah, yep, was working on two documents at once, one for stores, which had different options, and one i picked for the tournament.
thanks

Listbuilding is a relatively new concept for Fantasy. If you go back to 6E, you weren't supposed to create your list until after you rolled for scenario.

 ToxicBox wrote:
Tomb kings have an edge for sure when it comes to summoning. Especially with so many units being able to fly above the battlefield untouched or go beneath the sand and self heal

Take a look at Chaos. Every Chaos wizard knows the spells to summon all the demons. And other races have various ways to just summon up units. But not all. Summoning makes sense when you have no restriction on what you can field.

"Do i put these zombies on the table? or summon them later"

But in a tournament where you are restricted by wounds, it would be insane. And with the changes to the rules, the armies like VC and TK that lived by summoning actually don't need it any longer. And in some cases, have units that automatically regenerate killed models each turn. Skeletons in the TK list are actually pretty darn good. 3 attacks each, fighting in 3 ranks if you give them spears? Scary. And crumble less than other races with bravery 10.

 mikhaila wrote:
Just put up details for our first tournament. Threw together some scoring and list building rules, and seeing what happens next.

https://www.facebook.com/ShowcaseComicsGR/posts/993278557371865

Will you be putting a report about the tournament up, with maybe some pictures? I'd enter this in a heartbeat if I was near your store.

For the first time I think ever they're taking Age of Sigmar to Gencon, Comic Con, all the major wargames conventions in Europe etc. They're throwing a considerable amount of money at putting this in front of new audiences who have never played fantasy before.

That's nice. Now could they be a little more open about upcoming releases and stop trying to hide everything behind Kirby's wall of silence? If they really are serious about getting this game 'out there', then the secrecy shenanigans have to end.

Ooruks will not look the same as the orcs we currently have. As such, when they get round to releasing Ooruks, the old models will cease production. He did say that you can still use your old models as ooruks, but you won't be able to buy normal orc boys again.

That's horrific. Orcs are one of the defining things about GW.

There will never be points values.

They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other.

Warning: Contradictory statement found. Commence brain purge.

GW really are trying harder than they ever have before to make this work.

If they were really trying they would have not have abdicated responsibility when it comes to balancing the game.

Look, they want to be a model company. That's cool. I can respect that. But if making the best models is so important to them that they would basically abandon the rules (and any semblance of balance), then perhaps they should stop sitting on that fence and commit to the change. Ditch rules development in-house in favour of outsourcing it. Outsourcing it to perhaps another company that they already have a rules-writing relatioship with...

They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it. As he said, this is totally uncharted territory for them and they are totally open to rules revisions as they go.

Bull gak. If they wanted that they would have done so in advance of killing WFB and bringing this out.

Relapse wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Just put up details for our first tournament. Threw together some scoring and list building rules, and seeing what happens next.

https://www.facebook.com/ShowcaseComicsGR/posts/993278557371865

Will you be putting a report about the tournament up, with maybe some pictures? I'd enter this in a heartbeat if I was near your store.

Yep, will try to get some good pictures of the this and some thoughts on the games and the system. Nothing like a tournament with lots of different people to break a game in interesting ways

I'm leaving list building pretty open, so we can see what happens. Lots of my preconceived ideas about "what's good" have been shattered so far Stats and rules are so different, and many models are much easier to hurt.

I'm horrified, I find myself agreeing with HBMC. What a terrible thought.

 Commissar-Danno wrote:
Very well since Warhammer fantasy is truly dead. I think that GW should release a free PDF version of warhammer fantasy 8th edition and the army books for them.

This is an excellent idea.

 Melissia wrote:
I'm horrified, I find myself agreeing with HBMC. What a terrible thought.

And here we were thinking the End Times had already come and gone.

Haven't seen this pop up during all the complaining.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Simply saying that the nonsense that gets posted constantly about how GW shouldn't do this or that because they'll "lose good will with a good portion of the customer base" has been so overplayed that it detracts from any real criticisms.

Be fair Kan, GW doesn't have any goodwill left with the community.

 Kanluwen wrote:
"It's a slap to the face." isn't a bit hyperbolic?

It's metaphorical, not hyperbolic. Hyperbole would be saying that this is akin to catching ebola.

 TheKbob wrote:

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, no, the $85 core rulebook doesn't work well anymore. We barely saw a blip when 7E relaunched with their massive bloat edition, along with Space Marines. If GW could have charged for AoS, they would have. But through either realization that the rules are bad (not marketable/profitable) or needing to foster a community much like the smaller start ups (or a combo of both) does not bode well for the company. Unless there's some mysteriously third options, which some would say they're wising up or becoming "friendly" and to that I say, nope.

Tell me what flavor of spice you'd like on my hat, so when I'll eat it if GW actually opens back up to be a community based company.

Your post, I am confuse. Did I somehow imply that I thought the 8th ed. rulebook ever worked well? WHFB 8th ed. was my ragequit moment.

You must be misunderstanding me. You said that $85 was the standard price to pay for a rulebook. Perhaps it has become so, in the fever-dream community of Games Workshop. But we both know better; it is like paying 3x normal retail for some model glue because it has a Games Workshop sticker on the front. You said yourself there are better rules out there for free- though you didn't name any, and 'better' is subjective- but your point is valid.
But I do not know what we were looking at, to 'barely see a blip'. Sales? Profits? People entering the hobby? (And I don't remember Space Marines in 7th ed. WHFB.)

I'm with JH on this- I'd pay $20 for GW to print the rules and all the warscrolls for me. HA! You know what I expect? I expect card decks of warscrolls, at $20 retail each, for a limited time. (Actually, I can only dream the price point will be $20. This is GW we're talking about.)
Rules that are not marketable/not profitable are not, ipso facto, bad. Apropos of nothing, GW has given away stuff before. Do you remember Ravening Hordes? Also apropos of nothing, how many pages does it take to explain the rules of Go, or chess? Just because a rules set is small does not mean it lacks depth. Heck, aren't Mantic's basic KoW rules less than 10 pages? And that seems to be the go-to rules set for those who are ragequitting WHFB. Also, people (myself included) have been waiting for GW to go out of business for years, but they keep surprising us. When they do fold, it will be a shock.

Btw, you made me lol, there, when you implied that GW was once a community based company. If you are going to eat your hat, choose your own condiments.

Warhammer is dead. GW has finally, officially killed it. Worse, they are using shreds of its corpse to introduce their replacement for it. Go ahead and mourn.

Just one question- have you tried AoS yet?

What- too soon?

 Whumbachumba wrote:
Haven't seen this pop up during all the complaining.

It's been posted at least half a dozen times so far.

They do look very cool, though...

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's really annoying to see the constant crap, continually posted, time and time again anytime GW does ANYTHING.

Just like it's really annoying to see you instantly go into "SHIELDS UP" mode whenever someone has the temerity to dislike something GW does. If not for the existence of "Everything is Awesome!" Talys, it might be the most annoying thing at this site.

 fellblade wrote:
You said that $85 was the standard price to pay for a rulebook.

Yes , he said that's what it would have presumably been priced at. Not that it was good value at that price .

Meh. I still don't know what to think of the game. If they are goimg with scenario/narrative type rules to field armies I could see my friends and I having fun, but with only the Starter Set for now and no information on whats to come I find this gamble to be far too "risky". when I don't even know what I am getting into.

 insaniak wrote:
Only until next year, when 40K will be replaced by Age of Abaddon, with identical gameplay to AoS and new, improved, larger minis...

Don't even joke...

... although that's what the Horus Heresy game will end up being, should it ever come out.