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I know how good everyone thinks lobbas, kmks and traktor kannons are. The dark horse of the mek gun menagerie is definitely the bubblechucka. Against most infantry, rolling a 3-6 is pretty good. Sometimes even a 1 or 2 is ok depending on what you shoot at. against TEQ, wounding on 6's but ignoring armor will quickly pay for your cost of the kannons.

I wouldn't rate them "green" but they fill a role in the mek gun toolbox that none of the other mek guns do as well. You might struggle to find a use for them if you already deal with infantry effectively but with the diversity of formations in 7th you can almost certainly find a place for them if your list otherwise lacks effective anti-infantry or your meta is extremely heavy on ground pounders (as mine is).

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
I feel this thread is very similar to an Ork council. People bashing eachother (albeit intellectually) over who's mobs are the shootiest and killiest. At the end of this council each warboss will go off and run with their favorite build anyway as we branch off, un-united across the galaxy.

For me, I mostly agree with the rankings of the units. But I think the Ork codex has some good internal balance, where certain units begin to excel and be more effective when taken with other specific units.

So it's hard to rate a unit on it's own effectively in the Ork codex, where synergy is one of their strongest assets.

Well said.

Each army and play style works different. Something that's sucks in one army might be great in another.


I have been using a weird boy with tank bustas recently. Wow a 18 " S10 AP2 tank hunter beam is awesome =)

I never even thought about how tankhunters would confer to the weirdboy! Genius.

And weird boy have a lot of witch fires. And even with their primaris you at least get a S6 shot.

Alo da jump on tank bustas scares the crap out of vehicles.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
And weird boy have a lot of witch fires. And even with their primaris you at least get a S6 shot.

Alo da jump on tank bustas scares the crap out of vehicles.

It's a really cool idea. I am thinking about incorporating it into a list for a local tournament I might be participating in. The only problem I have with it is tankbustas like to ride in boxes and weirdboys like to footslog.

pickled_heretic wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
And weird boy have a lot of witch fires. And even with their primaris you at least get a S6 shot.

Alo da jump on tank bustas scares the crap out of vehicles.

It's a really cool idea. I am thinking about incorporating it into a list for a local tournament I might be participating in. The only problem I have with it is tankbustas like to ride in boxes and weirdboys like to footslog.

you can shoot Witch fire powers out of vehicles. If you roll da jump, they can disembark then jump. And since you roll powers before you deploy, you can decide where you want the weirdboy.

 Yaavaragefinkinman wrote:
People talk about drop podding meltas a lot especially in tournaments but I never really saw the problem as an Ork player leading me to question the stompa's rating. Even with meltas if you have your stompa outfitted properly (Grot Riggers and a buttload of meks) it would never go down unless they could pull it off in one turn. With that being said there are several references in this article alone to bubble wrapping so I don't see why it wouldn't work with a Stompa. Simply keeping those drop podding tools out of melta range and then charging them with your bubble wrap or blasting them to kingdom come with your stompa should suffice to prevent anyone from even trying that cheese on you. once his melta vets come in they won't be able to do too much to your stompa letting you leisurely blam to hell one unit a turn. I am not talking about a cover save here. Keep in mind melta range is only 6" spacing out just one squad of boyz hell even a full squad of grots could protect a stompa pretty damn well from Turn 1 melta cheese. Your only real opposition might come from IG lascannon spam which is what that big mek with a KFF inside it is for.(He still needs 5's to penetrate.) That's just my opinion though.

Bubble wrapping the Stompa with Grots worked really well for me last weekend but to be sure, I was much more worried about it being assaulted then shot.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/644586.page

Other opponents I didn't play also were running 4 Imperial Knights etc. but yeah in general the Grots kept both Meltas and assaulters at bay.

pickled_heretic wrote:
I know how good everyone thinks lobbas, kmks and traktor kannons are. The dark horse of the mek gun menagerie is definitely the bubblechucka. Against most infantry, rolling a 3-6 is pretty good. Sometimes even a 1 or 2 is ok depending on what you shoot at. against TEQ, wounding on 6's but ignoring armor will quickly pay for your cost of the kannons.

I think it's more of a local meta issue than usefulness. I'm the only Ork player in my area, and a lot of lists I run into don't run into alot of infantry.

pickled_heretic wrote:
I know how good everyone thinks lobbas, kmks and traktor kannons are. The dark horse of the mek gun menagerie is definitely the bubblechucka. Against most infantry, rolling a 3-6 is pretty good. Sometimes even a 1 or 2 is ok depending on what you shoot at. against TEQ, wounding on 6's but ignoring armor will quickly pay for your cost of the kannons.

I wouldn't rate them "green" but they fill a role in the mek gun toolbox that none of the other mek guns do as well. You might struggle to find a use for them if you already deal with infantry effectively but with the diversity of formations in 7th you can almost certainly find a place for them if your list otherwise lacks effective anti-infantry or your meta is extremely heavy on ground pounders (as mine is).

KMK. You might be downgrading from a large blast to a small blast, but you get a GUARANTEED S8 AP2, a level of power the Bubblechukka can only dream about. The Bubblechukka is too random, and is laughably weak compared to the KMK. Sorry to burst your bubble (I didn't mean that line to sound cruel in any way, it's just the pun was so obviously there that it would've been a sin not to say it )

FratHammer wrote:
18, I think we have different play styles, or you overestimate everyone else who plays thinking Flashgitz are a threat. Because, in my army I run 2-4 battlewagons. Of its 2 then I'm also running trukks. Like most people, you consider Flashgitz worthless, and I reinforce that idea in my opponents heads turn one. So you must be moving your be 6" and shooting then moving 6" and shooting in your ideal example. That's wrong. You move 12" and snapfire. You might get a kill, if you're lucky. But you've done two things. 1, you've reinforced what people think of Flashgitz. 2, you've gotten in a good position to have 24" range on 1+ units. Now with 2bws with 3manz squads to include my wb and grotsnik or Tankbustas, or bikes already in their face or trukks running down the field, are they going to Terry to drop the seemingly useless shooty Orcs? Nah. They worry about what most orc players run. Turn 2+ it goes down with you having a 50% hit chance not a piddly 33% and if you feel the need that charge is always in range when you've moved 12, turn 1, then the waagghh turn you move, dismount, run charge. But if you run a sent with only 1bw, no trukks, no bikes or stormboys, no forge world tanks and no stormboys... Then, yes, left with the only option to fire at they will all die.

And keep on mind, lootas can roll 1 on a d3 all day and they won't cut armor. Flashgitz will always give you 30 shots, that can be rerolled with ammo runts on the AP cutting shots, or charge and not die like chumps in combat. Since the new codex my lootas gather dust till cron-air comes back.

And the mek guns are great, no one can deny that, but if they are assaulted, forced to make a leadership, or not in range... They become paperweights. Flashgitz can move, assault, and have mob rule.

1st: I never said they were worthless, it's just they are often overshadowed. They are definitely a threat to be dealt with as they deal strong damage, they are just paper thin to compensate. There is also a lot of high strength in the competitive meta, and any S8 shots instakill the Gitz, which means that they have the potential to die pretty quickly.
2nd: I started my ideal example on turn 2, because I assumed that the Wagon flat outed turn 1.
3rd: I am a HUGE fan of that psychology trick you explained. Snap firing to reinforce their bad thoughts. That's brilliant!
4th: I always thought that ammo runts were a nifty tool for Gitz. Giving them an extra shot when they did get the ideal AL and BS. I think it is worth the cost to get 5 or 6 for the unit, but a pain to keep track of.
5th: it is more likely for Flash Gitz to roll bad AP for a whole game then it is for Lootas to only get 1 shot for the whole game. 50% chance of success with Gitz, versus 66% chance of success (2+ shots) for Lootas. That point is a bit irrelevant.
6th: Putting a Little Mek with Mek Gunz is critical, as it helps deal a little with LD. And bringing up range is a bit pointless as they have 36" range. Unless you place them badly, they will have something to shoot at. Mek Gunz are one of the best units in the Whole Dex.

You can't just skate over the downgrade from a large blast to a small blast. That is the whole reason to bring the bubblechucka over any other mek gun in the first place. Against anyone who is exploiting max coherency, a kmk will hit a single model on a hit where the chucka will hit at least at least 3 models and probably around 5 depending on your shot placement, range, and the size of the unit. even if you rolled horribly (a 2, for instance) and are only wounding on 5's you will still get more kills on e.g. GEQ or TauEQ than a KMK.

I have tried many builds since this codex came out and most made me cry... no weep in horror as how bad the orks have become.
However, there are some decent builds out there.

My favourite build is, for a 1850 point game

Zhadsnark +6 bikers incl a nob with PK
Squad of 6 bikers incl Nob with PK
Squad of 6 bikers incl Nob with PK

These are highly mobile and scoring(obj secured) because of zhadsnark and can take quite a bit of punishment. But watch it.... lots of ignore cover weapons these days...sadly...

Warboss in Mega armour with da lucky stikk. Depending on what army i face i put him together with a squad of bully boyz or lootas so they can move and shoot without snapping.

Bully boyz formation with trukks. So 3 trukks filled with 3x5 Meganobz that have fear and are Fearless.. Heavy heavy hitters but can die quickly to volume of fire and or the ridiculous amount of Rending, AP2 MC attacks out there.
GW realy needs to think their codex over and at least give them hte option to buy cybork body..

2 squads of 10 Boyz in Trukks. Makes good for 4 scoring units. I usually use these boyz to soak up overwatches that could kill meganobz or use them to camp objectives while their trukks go and try to get other objectives.

2 Squads of 10 lootaz. These guys remain the only solid choice in the codex IMO. Their saves suck, cover helps a bit, but as i said,... the amount of cover ignoring weapons out there is insane... so be careful!

Havent made a lot of success with this list yet but this list has brought me the best results to date.. 7 losses..2 draws and 1 win thus far... God we need a better codex....

@Warboss Grobnub

Painboys, painboys and painboys! No need to buy the overpriced cybork when you can give the entire squad a better FNP for a reasonable price.

Taking an Ork Horde with the Bullyboyz allows you to buy a painboy for each of the squads. Being fearless and WS5 they fare well enough without a Warboss. You lose the ability to waaagh, but since meganobz are SnP you won't be missing much.

Painboys are also a great way to bolster warbike squads. At T5 most weapons with Ignores Cover won't be able to deny you that save, and when Ignores Cover is not involved FNP provides an additional layer of saves that will keep your guys alive longer.

My warbiker mob has survived a paskisher and a full wyvern barrage with minimal losses, thanks to its embedded painboy. Trust me, it's worth every point!

The problem i have with painboyz...is that i mainly face...

Tau.. Massive missle spam. Str8 T4 instant death.. No fnp

Dark Eldar, lots of poisoned so volume mostly kill me but dark lances go straight through my armor AND FNP because of str8 T 4

Daemons.. Nurgle unclean ones tend to get iron hand a lot.... So again Insta kill and ap2

Chaos SM player usually has a lot of chaos bikers with a PF in them. Again no FNP and ap2 attacks.

Against Nids it might actually be nice

Feel no pain is awesome... but the amount of str8+ weapons out there makes is less good than intended..

I do run a painboy biker against some armies... but when i know it gets negated i focus my points elsewhere. My painboy Biker is solid though!

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
The problem i have with painboyz...is that i mainly face...

Tau.. Massive missle spam. Str8 T4 instant death.. No fnp

Dark Eldar, lots of poisoned so volume mostly kill me but dark lances go straight through my armor AND FNP because of str8 T 4

Daemons.. Nurgle unclean ones tend to get iron hand a lot.... So again Insta kill and ap2

Chaos SM player usually has a lot of chaos bikers with a PF in them. Again no FNP and ap2 attacks.

Against Nids it might actually be nice

Feel no pain is awesome... but the amount of str8+ weapons out there makes is less good than intended..

I do run a painboy biker against some armies... but when i know it gets negated i focus my points elsewhere. My painboy Biker is solid though!

No offense, but if you're talking about HYMP from Tau Broadsides you've either been playing it wrong or you're exaggerating. Tau HYMP and normal missile pods are only S7 AP4 so you would get FNP against them. Plus against Tau you normally go for as much target saturation as possible so they overkill on several small scale transports and units while the rest get to close the distance. If you're talking about seeker missiles...well given that they're one shot missiles that are only available on pricy platforms and in limited numbers, the fact that they're targeting boyz rather than larger-profile/threat targets means that you should be happy since losing 6 point boyz to a missile is a points ratio to your favour.

Dark Eldar are actually pretty straightforward for Orks. Poisoned doesn't mean much against mechanized Orks and even against Green Tide, the FNP mixed in with cover or a KFF heavily mitigates a lot of their wounds. I don't know where you got the idea that Dark lances are scary but they typically don't have enough rate of fire to take down the amount of transports Orks usually have in Mech lists and are glorified missile launchers against the majority of our vehicles, even battlewagons given how easy it is to get at our side armour which is only 12. Also if your boyz are being targeted by Dark Lances that is great, since they should be targeting vehicles not 6 point boys.

Complaining about Nurgle daemons seems to be the silliest excuse. Really? GUO? With Iron Arm? You know you can just avoid him right? 6" movement SNP means he can't even run. You could even just tarpit him with a unit and leave it as is, he doesn't have enough damage output to get through a mob of boyz without outside help.

Chaos Bikers with Powerfists? I really don't see how this is threatening to a mob of boyz who will likely drown the unit in a tide of attacks before the PF wielding aspiring champion even swings. At most he'd have 3-4 attacks on the charge depending what mark he has, how is he any scarier than our Nobz with PK? Especially those within our own biker units who are immune to instant death thanks to being T5 and having 2 wounds instead of 1 like the Aspiring Champion biker?

What kind of lists do you use? The threats you seem to be afraid of are pretty tame to be honest. If it were Eldar I would understand a bit more.

GUO are not really that bad, but nurgle DPs are super obnoxious. I fight a lot of them and I cringe any time I see an iron arm manifested.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
I feel this thread is very similar to an Ork council. People bashing eachother (albeit intellectually) over who's mobs are the shootiest and killiest. At the end of this council each warboss will go off and run with their favorite build anyway as we branch off, un-united across the galaxy.

For me, I mostly agree with the rankings of the units. But I think the Ork codex has some good internal balance, where certain units begin to excel and be more effective when taken with other specific units.

So it's hard to rate a unit on it's own effectively in the Ork codex, where synergy is one of their strongest assets.

Well said.

Each army and play style works different. Something that's sucks in one army might be great in another.


I have been using a weird boy with tank bustas recently. Wow a 18 " S10 AP2 tank hunter beam is awesome =)

That sounds like a really fearsome combo. Most of the Weirdboy spells sync well with the Bustas. Obviously the Killbolt is amazing, but Frazzle can be OK for anti-MEQ with Bustas, Warpath can help when the Bustas are fighting a Monster that needs killing, Da Jump can really scare things (avoiding Knight's shields), if you're close enough, Power Vomit on an open topped vehicle is great (especially with Tank Hunter). The benefit of the Weirdboy is even if you get a power that isn't good when he's put with Bustas, he can be put somewhere else to use it. The only really bad power I'd say would be 'eadbanger, because it isn't too good when most armies are so tough.

pickled_heretic wrote:
GUO are not really that bad, but nurgle DPs are super obnoxious. I fight a lot of them and I cringe any time I see an iron arm manifested.

What do you do to deal with a nurgle DP flying around getting a 2+ cover save from ruins and such, with iron arm and that ability that kills a bunch of dudes on a toughness test?

A couple dozen games after the this afterthought they call a codex dropped, I seldom play 40k anymore, but i still do pickup games every now and then in between the better games. I've had to face one of these bad boys but didn't really know what to do, so I tried tarpitting it. He killed ten boys in one turn though, so that's really not a good answer to it. Can't kite it, can't shoot it, can't chop it, and can't tarpit it. I'm at a loss.


And to add to the topic, i agree with the OP's general assessments of each unit, though i do think some units with worse ratings have a couple ways to play them with unique synergies that would give them a better rating

DP are insta-killed with any pk boss. Yep, iron arm makes them harder but you can still tarpit them. If it's a C: Daemon dp, it's not that killy and tarpittable. If it's CSM dp, it has only 33% of getting iron arm. Also, they cost A LOT. Yep, they're pretty mobile and killy but the thing is most orks are so cheap - dp struggle to make their points back.

pickled_heretic wrote:
I know how good everyone thinks lobbas, kmks and traktor kannons are. The dark horse of the mek gun menagerie is definitely the bubblechucka. Against most infantry, rolling a 3-6 is pretty good. Sometimes even a 1 or 2 is ok depending on what you shoot at. against TEQ, wounding on 6's but ignoring armor will quickly pay for your cost of the kannons.

I wouldn't rate them "green" but they fill a role in the mek gun toolbox that none of the other mek guns do as well. You might struggle to find a use for them if you already deal with infantry effectively but with the diversity of formations in 7th you can almost certainly find a place for them if your list otherwise lacks effective anti-infantry or your meta is extremely heavy on ground pounders (as mine is).

Was just looking at the mek guns in detail for the first time earlier today, and I have to agree that the bubblechukka seems like a pretty good option. They're your solid, reliable (yes reliable) infantry smashers. Pie plates give them good accuracy for orks, and the best between the guns against most infantry targets. If you roll seperately for each weapons S/AP (which looking at their rules I believe you do, will be pissed if you don't) then between all the rolls you make your likely to get that one number that will deal massive damage, along with either mass wounds w/ crap AP or a handful of AP1/2 wounds to put the pain on whatever it is your shooting at.

Honestly still looks pretty hard to pass up on kustom mega kannons (plasma cannons for orks??) or our old favourites kannons and lobbas which are more numerous and I believe cheaper than they used to be

 koooaei wrote:
DP are insta-killed with any pk boss. Yep, iron arm makes them harder but you can still tarpit them. If it's a C: Daemon dp, it's not that killy and tarpittable. If it's CSM dp, it has only 33% of getting iron arm. Also, they cost A LOT. Yep, they're pretty mobile and killy but the thing is most orks are so cheap - dp struggle to make their points back.

It's the DPs choice if he gets into melee and what it is with since he is moving 12". It's also not so easy to tarpit them. they deal around 4 wounds in assault which isn't horrific but you are also losing about 2 from mob rule. They are also challenging every turn so you are either hemorrhaging characters or not swinging with them. Once you fall below 10 models in the squad you have a real risk of getting cut down, which is going to happen in 1 game turn if you brought 20 boys (which is a pretty common number for me). The big problem is still iron arm which makes regular boys unable to kill them and makes all of their attacks ID against anything but a warboss.

On the flip side they can be safely ignored if they are swooping. They can't really do much to you in the air, but then again they can't really be killed either.

For mek guns I like 2 kannons and a traktor kannon + ammo runt. Nice 69 points unit. If they don't have flyers or skimmers the traktor up front to die first. And vs flyers you can at least snap fire the kannons.

Anyone have success with buggies? When I try to write up a list I'm starting with maxed mek guns followed by max buggies and its hard to justify not doing this unless your able to spam CAD or play unbound for many single deffkoptas

25pts for fast outflanking TL big shootas... I found that very reliable on solo koptas last edition and unlike koptas they don't care about morale so you can spam them.

I'd never bother with the trakk upgrade though - get them stranded deliberately so they become seperate squads and can split their fire! Who says Orks cannot into shenanigans?

You know...I've been trying to decide myself. I'm kinda thinking of taking Buggies over the Koptas because of the morale thing. Leaving them stranded or blown up also provides extra cover for the advancing mobs. As for the traks, well crashing through ruins is a dangerous terrain test. Up to you.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Anyone have success with buggies? When I try to write up a list I'm starting with maxed mek guns followed by max buggies and its hard to justify not doing this unless your able to spam CAD or play unbound for many single deffkoptas

25pts for fast outflanking TL big shootas... I found that very reliable on solo koptas last edition and unlike koptas they don't care about morale so you can spam them.

I'd never bother with the trakk upgrade though - get them stranded deliberately so they become seperate squads and can split their fire! Who says Orks cannot into shenanigans?

I'd get at least one buggy in a squadron as a trakk. More reliably going into dt without immobilizing yourself to claim an objective or cover - in case it's the closest buggy to the enemy - is well worth 5 pt imo.

 koooaei wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Anyone have success with buggies? When I try to write up a list I'm starting with maxed mek guns followed by max buggies and its hard to justify not doing this unless your able to spam CAD or play unbound for many single deffkoptas

25pts for fast outflanking TL big shootas... I found that very reliable on solo koptas last edition and unlike koptas they don't care about morale so you can spam them.

I'd never bother with the trakk upgrade though - get them stranded deliberately so they become seperate squads and can split their fire! Who says Orks cannot into shenanigans?

I'd get at least one buggy in a squadron as a trakk. More reliably going into dt without immobilizing yourself to claim an objective or cover - in case it's the closest buggy to the enemy - is well worth 5 pt imo.

I really like the idea of having a Big Mek with a KFF (or Mega KFF) in with buggies for the 5+ invulnerable. Unfortunately, he's really easy to take out so he needs to be joined up (which he can't do to Buggies). This makes deffkoptas really useful, and unfortunately, superiorish to buggies :(

Honestly I've revamped my play style with Orks in that my group only plays Malestrom. I no longer worry about claiming the opponents objectives. I still use DeffKoptas because they're so cheap and versitile but being able to hold my 3 which I put as close to each other as possible 12" and either defend against alpha strike or out shoot campers.

It's actaully a great feeling of liberty that I dont have to worry about Ld and Ork vehicles getting blown apart. There's still plenty of variety and fun in games but it's way more relaxing.

Unbound: MSU deffkopta units of 1 can't be equalled for what they do by almost any unit in the game. Buggies can tank shock though. Against non-fearless units, they got to fail sometimes

 PipeAlley wrote:
Honestly I've revamped my play style with Orks in that my group only plays Malestrom. I no longer worry about claiming the opponents objectives. I still use DeffKoptas because they're so cheap and versitile but being able to hold my 3 which I put as close to each other as possible 12" and either defend against alpha strike or out shoot campers.

It's actaully a great feeling of liberty that I dont have to worry about Ld and Ork vehicles getting blown apart. There's still plenty of variety and fun in games but it's way more relaxing.

Unbound: MSU deffkopta units of 1 can't be equalled for what they do by almost any unit in the game. Buggies can tank shock though. Against non-fearless units, they got to fail sometimes

Can't tank shock as they're not tanks.

Doesn't reinfoced ram allow them? I might be getting my editions mixed up. Codex and rule book is at home.

Also, having Tank in profile adds 1 to strength when ramming so I'd assume non tanks can shock? I'll look it up tonight.

I recently played in an event with some competitive players. My list managed 5 out of 12 and I won best xenos player. Below is my list. 1500ish.

HQ
Zhadsnark
Pain boy on bike
Big mek on bike with KFF and DLS

Troops
Ard' boyz in a trukk. Nob BP and PK. Trukk had ram.
Biker boyz 6 with Nob PK and BP

Elites
Mek junka with RAM and 'ard plating
8 tankbusters

Fast-attack
5x Deffkoptas TL rokket
Dakka jet

Heavy Support
10x lootas
Looted wagon with Killkannon big shoota

Fortifaction
Quad Icurs Lascannon Vengeance Weapon Battery.

The force has two scout-able elements and tankbusters for some first turn bonus points. Zhadsnark caught a lot of players off guard when I used him to scout, and then tank shock with him. Force a couple units off the table when I did that. Vengeance weapon battery was in the list because of points and it gave me a nice anti-air unit that could intercept with. In the 4 rounds I played, it only mattered 2 twice. So when I jump the list up to an 1850 mark, its coming out to make run for more stuff.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Doesn't reinfoced ram allow them? I might be getting my editions mixed up. Codex and rule book is at home.

Also, having Tank in profile adds 1 to strength when ramming so I'd assume non tanks can shock? I'll look it up tonight.

Buggies don't have rams so they can't tank shock.

 koooaei wrote:
I'd get at least one buggy in a squadron as a trakk. More reliably going into dt without immobilizing yourself to claim an objective or cover - in case it's the closest buggy to the enemy - is well worth 5 pt imo.

Hadn't thought of that, I'm very much still in the 6th edition "only troops score" mindset.

Sketchyfk wrote:
I really like the idea of having a Big Mek with a KFF (or Mega KFF) in with buggies for the 5+ invulnerable. Unfortunately, he's really easy to take out so he needs to be joined up (which he can't do to Buggies). This makes deffkoptas really useful, and unfortunately, superiorish to buggies :(