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 PipeAlley wrote:
Doesn't reinfoced ram allow them? I might be getting my editions mixed up. Codex and rule book is at home.

Also, having Tank in profile adds 1 to strength when ramming so I'd assume non tanks can shock? I'll look it up tonight.

Tracks =/= Ram

And they're not tanks to get it by default.
So, buggies can't tankshock, unfortunately.

Ah, I only use Trukks and BW's to ram.

Anybody have thoughts on the Lifta Dropa Wagon as a competitive unit?

It'll average 7-8 str on their roll. Being AP1 means it gives a +2 to the roll on the penetration table. But aside from that, that's it. I'm kinda surprised it didn't get armourbane. You need a weapon that is at least str8 to glance an armour of 14.

It used to be cool, but now since its one shot on BS2 it really doesn't matter how much damage it can do cuz it will never hit

Whoops sorry, I was thinking the Mig Mek Gun, Smasha Cannon that lifts and drops vehicles to smash them. I'm guessing this wagon fingy is from Forge World? Probably similar stats but I have no idea.

Would 2 Greentides be too much for a 2k list? each with painboy and a few KFF? sounds like an annoying list to play

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Would 2 Greentides be too much for a 2k list? each with painboy and a few KFF? sounds like an annoying list to play

I think it be better to go with1 green tide, just make it bigger =)

The tide works best with a few support units. Mek gutz, lootas, tank bustas etc...

Don't skimp out on putting Nobz with PKs and putting a PK on the Warboss. Don't want a melee Dreadnaught tieing up the entire mob turn after turn.

So, green tide, you guys find the KFF worth it? Its only models within 6" but you can put him pretty far in from the front and protect a huge blob of Orks. On the other hand, I can imagine this mob will take the worst of its casualties from barrage pie plates, which means a lot of the time the 5++ will be ignored.

Anyone try Grotsnik (fearless, rage iirc) or any other HQ or characters for it? I'm very seriously considering trying one out, even if I have to paint another hundred Orks after selling most of the first ones...

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Whoops sorry, I was thinking the Mig Mek Gun, Smasha Cannon that lifts and drops vehicles to smash them. I'm guessing this wagon fingy is from Forge World? Probably similar stats but I have no idea.

Just forget the lifta droppa exists. Honestly its depressing how badly they ruined it, it went from fun and strong to total garbage

I dunno how good the Smasha gun is, but I know theres a tendency for people to write off guns with random attributes which in the case of these guns is a bit hasty. If you roll for five different gun strengths it averages out pretty nicely I reckon.

Don't know. KFF is pretty expensive. You still need a DLS, so a mek with a killsaw, kff and dls could do. It's not that bad and it migh help you against being pushed back too much but it's very easy to avoid and won't help all that often.

Having never run a green tide but regularly running full Boyz mobs is that everyone without a special role is just extra wounds. Think of the green tide like one big organism with 10-30 Rokkits and 10 to 30 Nobz. Everything else is just wounds.

The greatest force multiplier for Orks is DLS and Bike PainBoy.

I'd argue that a DLS Biker boss is better than a KFF BM simply because his is T6 and cannot be ID by Str 10 blasts. Also, he can take FNP against Str 10 in both shooting and Assault.

TL, DR: take a DLS BikerBoss and PainBiker, stick them in the way back and let all the Boyz and PK Nobz do all the actuall work! Sluggas up front and shootas in back.

Yeah I'm not too sure of the Green Tide. Seems fine on paper but it's a lot in one unit. They have to shoot and charge the same target although with it's size I suppose it's gonna be one big multi charge attack. A deep striking dreadnaught can turn the whole entire mob around and tie it up. I think there was a time when the green tide was one unit with only one nob. Rofl this musta been a joke. Looking at the new W!G supplement and it's 10 Boyz units with their nobs if you wish (I would) that then form to make one unit when deployed. At least this way there are more Klaws in use. Imagine getting stuck in a melee from the opponant with multuple units the boyz themselves can't scratch and only on PK...gotta play out each and every turn for that one PK to kill the targets while the boyz can't do squat or even move.
Using the other detachments you can send your 8-9 squads of boyz to different objectives and targets and mess with your opponent's target priorities. Toss in some toyz too. Almost all unit selections for Orks have had their point cost reduced. Vehicle rokkit upgrades became free (or in the case of no weapon on base model, the rokkit is same price as big shoota), vehicle squadrons can field more models and with the points saved from so much getting cheaper it's easier to fill. Or now that all boyz in the troops selection can be given Ard Armour as an upgrade selection (choppa boyz or shoota boyz) instead of just one unit selection in the old books you can spend the bunch of saved money on some tougher squads that can mitigate their own trukk exploding. Basically in 7th edition the hidden buff Orks got is that almost across the board they got cheaper. In the past it was always boyz before toys to try and squeeze the effectiveness of numbers into a limited amount of points and ultimately sacrificing toys that can help support your mob as they move up. I'm still into bringing big green blobs but now I can bring some more toys to support them or hard counters without having to struggle internally with an old mentality to just keep throwing every single point I can into Str3 AP- atks. I'm working on an army atm that is both Goffs and Death Skullz. Naturally with Goffs in town I will be having lots of boyz because lots of boyz is still key also where my ard boyz would be found. My Death Skullz will have maybe half the numbers in models but far more support toyz. I hope my theory is correct about how to spend the saved points as Boyz with a bit of Toyz.

What are people's thoughts on a Zhadsnark bike list? Biker Deathstar supported by smaller biker squads.

Why does everyone always take min sized biker units?

I understand moral is sometimes a problem but the power of a 15man biker unit is awesome. 45 TL shots followed by HoW followed by 60 attacks (including PK nob).

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

pickled_heretic wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
And weird boy have a lot of witch fires. And even with their primaris you at least get a S6 shot.

Alo da jump on tank bustas scares the crap out of vehicles.

It's a really cool idea. I am thinking about incorporating it into a list for a local tournament I might be participating in. The only problem I have with it is tankbustas like to ride in boxes and weirdboys like to footslog.

you can shoot Witch fire powers out of vehicles. If you roll da jump, they can disembark then jump. And since you roll powers before you deploy, you can decide where you want the weirdboy.

Did you ever give this a try? I've thought about it some myself. I mean, in the basic Ork Codex we are supplied with a special Detachment type that we can take two of to get 6 HQ choices. Granted, we would have to take 6 troop choices, troops that don't have obj secured. My first thought was that small hope that we could have enough Warpheads running around to have a small statistical chance of denying Inivisibility (twice). Of course, the real value in numerous Warpheads is that Beam weapon can hit invisibile targets anyways if I'm not mistaken.

Of course, you'd also want to stick them with Tankbustas, if Tank Hunter is going to confer, I still want to read up on that. But a delivery system is what boggles me. Much like Tankbustas, you want to get the weirdboyz to 24 inches quickly. The BW Scout formation comes to mind, but it's a lot of points with the six troop requirement you'd need to have 6 HQ slots, along with trying to get Tankbustas for Warpheads to be with.

 Dakkamite wrote:
It used to be cool, but now since its one shot on BS2 it really doesn't matter how much damage it can do cuz it will never hit

Not really true. The wagon still has a good chance of smashing a vehicle every turn. 33% chance. Same with all ork shooting. Personally, the last time I fielded mine, it killed or damaged something every turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
What are people's thoughts on a Zhadsnark bike list? Biker Deathstar supported by smaller biker squads.

Take a look at my list on previous page. I use him and he is pretty awesome.

 Rismonite wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

pickled_heretic wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
And weird boy have a lot of witch fires. And even with their primaris you at least get a S6 shot.

Alo da jump on tank bustas scares the crap out of vehicles.

It's a really cool idea. I am thinking about incorporating it into a list for a local tournament I might be participating in. The only problem I have with it is tankbustas like to ride in boxes and weirdboys like to footslog.

you can shoot Witch fire powers out of vehicles. If you roll da jump, they can disembark then jump. And since you roll powers before you deploy, you can decide where you want the weirdboy.

Did you ever give this a try? I've thought about it some myself. I mean, in the basic Ork Codex we are supplied with a special Detachment type that we can take two of to get 6 HQ choices. Granted, we would have to take 6 troop choices, troops that don't have obj secured. My first thought was that small hope that we could have enough Warpheads running around to have a small statistical chance of denying Inivisibility (twice). Of course, the real value in numerous Warpheads is that Beam weapon can hit invisibile targets anyways if I'm not mistaken.

Of course, you'd also want to stick them with Tankbustas, if Tank Hunter is going to confer, I still want to read up on that. But a delivery system is what boggles me. Much like Tankbustas, you want to get the weirdboyz to 24 inches quickly. The BW Scout formation comes to mind, but it's a lot of points with the six troop requirement you'd need to have 6 HQ slots, along with trying to get Tankbustas for Warpheads to be with.

i have tried the weird boy + tank bustas a couple games now. Havnt got da jump yet , but have got kill bolt twice. My last game was vs Necrons and his only vehicle was 1 walker, but the kill bolt did one shot it. I run him with 9 bustas in a gun wagon. It comes down to his powers and how my opponent sets up to decide where I put the weird boy.

My army is usually an Ork horde detatchment and a CAD. So i can have 5 HQS , just have to have 5 troops. Which I run 3 boyz mobs and 2 gretchin mobs. All the orks go into the horde detatchment and the grotz into the cad.

Sooo.... How do we kill new Eldar?

Lots of lobbas, pray to get 1-st turn and that jetbikes fail a lot of ld tests. Boyz spread out in max coherency to not get fried too hard by d-flamers. MSU koptas to fly around distracting and annoying them and eating from d-scythes.

Wait some time, it works too. Starting from 6-th i've seen a significant drop of eldar players skill cause they no longer needed to think that hard to win games. Gona be even worse now cause realistically, you need to be a bit above potato IQ to play eldar effectively.

How about a knight ally? Would it work nicely together with our army? (not asking specifically about panzee jetbikes here)

Dakkamite, do not pay 160 points for Grotsnik. The Big Boss Pole from the Waaaaagghhh Gazkull supplement gives you Fearless, and a Painboy from a CAD (same place you'd get Grotsnik) is only 50pts. That's 70pts to do what Grotsnik does for the mob at less then half his price of 160pts.

Also, he doesn't give Rage, he gives Rampage. Which in this instance is useless, because no one will ever have more models in a combat with your green tide than you. If it was rage, you could have an argument, but it's Rampage.

Yeah if you ever field Grotsnik instead of a regular painboy, don't do it for the Green Tide. Stick Grotsnik with Nobz unit, they are a low numbered unit needing more survivability and rampage will come into effect with them far more often. If you want to go fluffy, Ghazzy keeps Grotsnik heavily guarded with meganobz from his own Goff clan. He caught Grotsnik's own nobz stealing The Dok's stuff (Grotsnik is a Deathskull aka the lootiest lootas).

Actually, Grotsnik has some stuff going on for him.

Firstly, he has a pk and 4 ws5 (ws6 with DLS) attacks or +2 poisoned attacks and +1 WS over a painboss. Secondly, he's t5 and 4+, so that much harder to snipe out than a regular painboss.

So, that's not just 20 pt for fearless. It's also 25+ pt for a pk at the very least.

Oh I agree and he'll play a very important role for me in various units. But I was referring to the fellas idea of putting Grotsnik in the Green Tide formation. He's a 160 pt beast, there are cheaper ways to get fnp and fearless on the Green Tide. Nob squads tend to be outnumbered most of the time and I feel Grotsnik shines better with them as the rampage will come into play more often. Nobs also don't go over 10 units so one of the Mob Rule prereqs can't be fulfilled, Fearless negates that for them.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Oh I agree and he'll play a very important role for me in various units. But I was referring to the fellas idea of putting Grotsnik in the Green Tide formation. He's a 160 pt beast, there are cheaper ways to get fnp and fearless on the Green Tide. Nob squads tend to be outnumbered most of the time and I feel Grotsnik shines better with them as the rampage will come into play more often. Nobs also don't go over 10 units so one of the Mob Rule prereqs can't be fulfilled, Fearless negates that for them.

Well, i was referring to Grotsnik vs Painboss in a green tide.

He's not that much more expensive when you consider that he can replace both a painboss and one of pk nobz.

So, that'd be 111 pt for a painboss, pk nob and DLS. He also has an extra PK attack and +1 WS which can easilly cost another 15-20 pt in my book. That'd be ~130 pt. And 30 go for much better durability. Nothing worse loosing a painboss to a basilisk round turn one for a Greentide. Rampage is just there as a free super situational buff. But it might actually come into play. For example, vs new eldar as they can easilly kill half the greentide in one turn, so, by the time you reach them - if you do at all - you'd probably need that rampage when you multicharge everything.

True he is hands down more resilient then a painboy and he becomes point efficient if he also replaces the price of a Nob (can't deny how expensive they can get). It's really cool he has a PK which is why I want to run him with a unit that gets up close. Of course the Green Tide will get close too. It's definitely worth trying. There are situational moments where I like to be able to serperate my warboss as he goes for another model while unit he was with deals with a softer target and maybe even join another unit afterwards. Unfortunately Grotsnik doesn't do that, he's stuck in till the unit he's with dies and then he can join another. Deploying him takes more forethought, I find. When I get a chance to run him I'll see how often he might survive his unit getting wiped out and if he can make it to another unit getting chipped apart in time to buff them. If he just keeps dieing with the unit he was originally with then I'd feel less worried of having him tied to a Green Tide.

Painboy 50pts, nob upgrade 10pts, power klaw 25pts, big boss pole 20 pts, 4pts heavy armor, so at best 109 pts. At best you're paying 45 points for a character you don't want anywhere near a combat, unlike your nob. And why are you bringing da lukky stikk into this? He can't buy it... He doesn't convey its bonus... So... Are we talking about adding another warboss? Then Grotsnik becomes an even larger problem because points become an even larger issue which you need to minimize...i don't follow your logic. He's worth his points in a manz missile not in a green tide.

Is the Green Tide susceptible to Fear? Or is it not really a concern due to the sheer number of attacks and that there really isn't much that wants to get into combat with so many orks?

Initially, yes they are susceptible to fear, their numbers don't confer fearless like they used to in the old days....well not in the same manner anyways. A failed morale test leads to another random table which if properly prepped for and mitigated will result in the unit staying in the fight. A fearless unit can ignore this all together and there is a way or two to do this. The Green Tide is in the W!G supplement and use W!G warlord rules and Orkimedes Gubbinz not the Ork Codex stuff. No lucky roll for a Prophet of the Waaagh that gives fearless if the Warlord is a Warboss so only Ghazzy has this and can't do the stampede if made the Warlod and then slipped into this unit unbound. Grotsnik gives a constant fearless but also would need to be added unbound but would be more effective then Ghazzy. This leaves Orkimedes Big Boss Pole for 20 points on your Warboss in the Green Tide to give a constant fearless to the entire unit.