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I assume most people would figure a way to get that Big Boss Pole in their Tide, then.

Yes. And this is if you don't want to swing at the 4-6 attacks you'd be dealing to your 100+ wounds worth of models. Otherwise, when running a W!G supplement formation you're mob rule table results change to d3+3 instead of a d6 wounds. And you cannot fail the mob rule roll with its bonus on the table.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
What are people's thoughts on a Zhadsnark bike list? Biker Deathstar supported by smaller biker squads.

I run this list quite regularly, this list seems like the biggest powerbuild for Orks out there...
I still lose 9.9/10 times...

Our army just lacks all those fancy special rules all the other armies have... And we lack invul saves so our greatest hitters still die to decent weapons and ignore cover shizzle (TF-Cannon, marker drones, Serpent shield etc etc)

I have hopelessly, hilariously tried numerous highly competitive lists and played like a boss... and still lost.

My most recent los was against an Eldar/Raven guard army. Semi competitive list.... at the last turn he still had over 900 points on the table while i only had 138 left... And that was the Orks at their best.. My opponent was very, very scared... until turn 4 where my squad were thinned out so damn much that all i did was take morale checks and watch my units run and race to my table edge...

I seriously wish the worst on those who broke the already not so great old Ork codex.....

The main ork weakness is leadership. Lately I feel almost forced to take the Bullyboyz with 3 Painboys from an Ork Horde detachment. Grots for scoring, Mek guns to cover the advance. Low model count, Fearless, WS5 2+ armour nobs with FNP are scary. Battlewagons to solve the mobility problem. If you survive until Turn 2 and IF you don't face lots of AP 2 S8+ weapons the Meganobz will kill everything. But if you play agains Eldar... you can still do some damage befor going down eventualy

FratHammer wrote:
Painboy 50pts, nob upgrade 10pts, power klaw 25pts, big boss pole 20 pts, 4pts heavy armor, so at best 109 pts. At best you're paying 45 points for a character you don't want anywhere near a combat, unlike your nob. And why are you bringing da lukky stikk into this? He can't buy it... He doesn't convey its bonus... So... Are we talking about adding another warboss? Then Grotsnik becomes an even larger problem because points become an even larger issue which you need to minimize...i don't follow your logic. He's worth his points in a manz missile not in a green tide.

He has 1 more attacks and 1 higher WS, so it's something extra.

Besides, he's not gona get killed by a basilisk or a wivern in one go.

Wanted to ask what you guys think the 'big competative' ork lists are?

basically, what are going to be the power houses to win torny games and keep up with those pointy eared gitz

to get us started, some small suggestions....

Green tide
( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/635005.page )

All walker list
( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/638474.page )

warboss spam delivery
( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646222.page )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, personally think that grots should be yellow, and gazzy should be blue or AT LEAST yellow.

grots yellow because they CAN eb useful to hang onto objectives for practically no points. they are versatile and have a use in most tournament settings. Even if that means operating fortifications (which is great as they have protection and a big gun at the best ork ballistic skill available while being half the point of boyz)

think gazzy should be blue or at least yellow because, reading the reasons you have given for him being red, though he may be a little too many points compared to a standard warboss, he still isnt TERRIBLE. Sure, compared to warboss he isnt AMAZING, btu he isnt bad. If he were 50 points cheaper he would be a lot better, but for his points, I don't think he is red.

Walker lists aren't competitive. They just aren't fast enough to get there before they are killed in the heavy AT meta.

They could perhaps be competative if you bring enough of them or in lower point games.

I notice the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Dreadmob can fit into a 1500 point game quite easily (but its the entire army of itself).


But ideally the Green Tide and Dreadmobs both rely on your opponent not bringing enough to counter you ideally.

If someone is expecting them then they both have the potential to fall apart pretty easily.

I played a Green tide over the weekend and it was fun and funny at the same time. I had a weird boy, Mad Grotsnik , and a warboss in the tide. Warboss had the lucky stick. Weird boy knew Da jump and warpath. My opponent did not know what I was bring, but he showed up with guard and had a basilis and manticore. Bad news for the tide. So I took a risk and on turn one jumped the tide within 3 inchs of his front line. Made it really hard on him because we were playing vanguard strike. Game was literally a blood bath. My the end of the last turn. All I had left was Mad Grotsnik. My opponent had nothing. I got rampage off in the last two turns of the game.

fear is a big deal against green tide and it's worth at least 20 points to get fearless.

FNP is also mandatory.

Grotsnik is the ultimate purchase for a battle of the green tides. The extra attacks are absolutely ridiculous. As soon as your tide starts losing, you get a +2a bonus per boy on average that just shreds the enemy. On the other hand, he is a lot of points and you won't get anything out of him in most circumstances.

pickled_heretic wrote:
fear is a big deal against green tide and it's worth at least 20 points to get fearless.

FNP is also mandatory.

Grotsnik is the ultimate purchase for a battle of the green tides. The extra attacks are absolutely ridiculous. As soon as your tide starts losing, you get a +2a bonus per boy on average that just shreds the enemy. On the other hand, he is a lot of points and you won't get anything out of him in most circumstances.

Also with me casting warpath every turn on them it made all the boyz base 3 instead of 2s.

personally i give the warboss a big boss pole and then purchase another warboss with lucky stick so he can get into combat while the main warboss stays at the back to stay out of challenge range. i use a painboy and save some points personally instead of grotsnick

 Glitcha wrote:
I played a Green tide over the weekend and it was fun and funny at the same time. I had a weird boy, Mad Grotsnik , and a warboss in the tide. Warboss had the lucky stick. Weird boy knew Da jump and warpath. My opponent did not know what I was bring, but he showed up with guard and had a basilis and manticore. Bad news for the tide. So I took a risk and on turn one jumped the tide within 3 inchs of his front line. Made it really hard on him because we were playing vanguard strike. Game was literally a blood bath. My the end of the last turn. All I had left was Mad Grotsnik. My opponent had nothing. I got rampage off in the last two turns of the game.

A few things here: Warboss should not have the Lucky Stick. Not unless you took a Detachment from the regular Ork Codex, took a Warboss, and stuck him into the Tide with the other Warboss.

The required Warboss for the Green Tide can only use Relics from the W!G book.

Second, when you said you DS the Tide 3'' away, did you scatter 3'' away and then had to start putting Boyz down? Because if so, you'd have likely misshaped.

Not trying to be a grump, but just letting you know there is and may have been another mistake or two :p Just so you're aware.

Melevolence wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
I played a Green tide over the weekend and it was fun and funny at the same time. I had a weird boy, Mad Grotsnik , and a warboss in the tide. Warboss had the lucky stick. Weird boy knew Da jump and warpath. My opponent did not know what I was bring, but he showed up with guard and had a basilis and manticore. Bad news for the tide. So I took a risk and on turn one jumped the tide within 3 inchs of his front line. Made it really hard on him because we were playing vanguard strike. Game was literally a blood bath. My the end of the last turn. All I had left was Mad Grotsnik. My opponent had nothing. I got rampage off in the last two turns of the game.

A few things here: Warboss should not have the Lucky Stick. Not unless you took a Detachment from the regular Ork Codex, took a Warboss, and stuck him into the Tide with the other Warboss.

The required Warboss for the Green Tide can only use Relics from the W!G book.

Second, when you said you DS the Tide 3'' away, did you scatter 3'' away and then had to start putting Boyz down? Because if so, you'd have likely misshaped.

Not trying to be a grump, but just letting you know there is and may have been another mistake or two :p Just so you're aware.

I'll give you the lucky stick one. That would have been my fault. But yeah the tide had scattered and after placing all the boyz there was just a 3" gap between my tide and his front line.

Yeah, not sure how that worked in your game, but I have generally decided that jumping a green tide is what to do when you want to lose on your turn instead of theirs. There's no possible way to place the unit out of deep strike on most tables.

pickled_heretic wrote:
Yeah, not sure how that worked in your game, but I have generally decided that jumping a green tide is what to do when you want to lose on your turn instead of theirs. There's no possible way to place the unit out of deep strike on most tables.

Well it was either try and take a lot of dangerous terrain test or watch his tanks blow up the tide is it tries to make a run for it across the table. Go big or go home, I guess, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've been preparing this list for a event.

Great Waagh Detachment

HQ
Big mek with MFF

Mek

Buzzgob

Troops
'ard boyz w/nob BP PK in a Trukk with ramx2
Shoota boyz in a trukk with ram

Elites
MANz Missile

Fast-Attack
3 Deffkopta
Dakkajet

Heavy Support
Deff dread 1 big shoota 1 rokket
Deff dread 2 mega blasters

LoW
Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa

Question: I thought of this earlier and I was wondering if anybody has tried a bikerboss deathstar?

The idea would be as follows: Two Ork horde detachments with 3 HQ slots each, take 5 warbosses on bikes with power klaws, one painboy on a bike, sprinkle in DLS and the blitzbike, then have them all join a min size unit of regular bikers. Take a couple of extra min size units of bikers for them to join when their meat shields get killed, since they're all ICs and can all join the same unit. Give the warlord a finkin' cap to try to outflank them for extra fun times. Let the biker nob eat challenges to keep the bosses swinging.

They're T6 so they can't be doubled out, 4+, FNP, they can jink, and get 3+ cover if they turboboost. In combat, they've got 25 attacks at WS6 S10 ap2, and if you give them attack squigs because why not at this point they can each reroll a miss. Shooting they've still got 18 shots S5 TL, and the blitzbike can be a nasty surprise for MEQs as well.

Only downside is it's like 700 points, but on paper anyway it sounds pretty 'ard to me. Has anyone tried this, or is there some reason that it's just a terrible idea and I should feel bad that I'm not seeing, besides the semi-obscene points cost?

office_waaagh seems like a wonderful name.. I was pleased.. Thanks.

 office_waaagh wrote:
Question: I thought of this earlier and I was wondering if anybody has tried a bikerboss deathstar?

The idea would be as follows: Two Ork horde detachments with 3 HQ slots each, take 5 warbosses on bikes with power klaws, one painboy on a bike, sprinkle in DLS and the blitzbike, then have them all join a min size unit of regular bikers. Take a couple of extra min size units of bikers for them to join when their meat shields get killed, since they're all ICs and can all join the same unit. Give the warlord a finkin' cap to try to outflank them for extra fun times. Let the biker nob eat challenges to keep the bosses swinging.

They're T6 so they can't be doubled out, 4+, FNP, they can jink, and get 3+ cover if they turboboost. In combat, they've got 25 attacks at WS6 S10 ap2, and if you give them attack squigs because why not at this point they can each reroll a miss. Shooting they've still got 18 shots S5 TL, and the blitzbike can be a nasty surprise for MEQs as well.

Only downside is it's like 700 points, but on paper anyway it sounds pretty 'ard to me. Has anyone tried this, or is there some reason that it's just a terrible idea and I should feel bad that I'm not seeing, besides the semi-obscene points cost?

I've not ran 5 warboss, but i have ran two. Warboss on the blitz bike and Zhadsnark. Warboss on the bike had DLS. Then a pain boy on a bike and a big mek on a bike. Big mek had KFF and a killsaw. Big mek is mainly their to provide an invu from shooting attacks that have ignore cover and ap4. Plus could break off from the mainly unit to go snag a late objective. You could do the same with the 5 warbosses. Keep them together and then when it comes down to last turn, split the squad up and go grab objectives. Going 2nd would really in that instant.

 Glitcha wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:
Question: I thought of this earlier and I was wondering if anybody has tried a bikerboss deathstar?

The idea would be as follows: Two Ork horde detachments with 3 HQ slots each, take 5 warbosses on bikes with power klaws, one painboy on a bike, sprinkle in DLS and the blitzbike, then have them all join a min size unit of regular bikers. Take a couple of extra min size units of bikers for them to join when their meat shields get killed, since they're all ICs and can all join the same unit. Give the warlord a finkin' cap to try to outflank them for extra fun times. Let the biker nob eat challenges to keep the bosses swinging.

They're T6 so they can't be doubled out, 4+, FNP, they can jink, and get 3+ cover if they turboboost. In combat, they've got 25 attacks at WS6 S10 ap2, and if you give them attack squigs because why not at this point they can each reroll a miss. Shooting they've still got 18 shots S5 TL, and the blitzbike can be a nasty surprise for MEQs as well.

Only downside is it's like 700 points, but on paper anyway it sounds pretty 'ard to me. Has anyone tried this, or is there some reason that it's just a terrible idea and I should feel bad that I'm not seeing, besides the semi-obscene points cost?

I've not ran 5 warboss, but i have ran two. Warboss on the blitz bike and Zhadsnark. Warboss on the bike had DLS. Then a pain boy on a bike and a big mek on a bike. Big mek had KFF and a killsaw. Big mek is mainly their to provide an invu from shooting attacks that have ignore cover and ap4. Plus could break off from the mainly unit to go snag a late objective. You could do the same with the 5 warbosses. Keep them together and then when it comes down to last turn, split the squad up and go grab objectives. Going 2nd would really in that instant.

I have a list with 7 min, 2 PK and 5 BC. The reason for 7 is 5 regular Bikerz with PK Nob, PainBoy on Bike, and KFF Killsaw on Bike. You start out with average T6 and lose all the regular Bikerz first. Cheap expendable wounds.

When 7th first came out I wanted 10 Warbosses with 10 NobBikerz and Looted wagons with cheap DeffRollas. Then The Ork codex came out and that plan when down the toilet.

 PipeAlley wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:
Question: I thought of this earlier and I was wondering if anybody has tried a bikerboss deathstar?

The idea would be as follows: Two Ork horde detachments with 3 HQ slots each, take 5 warbosses on bikes with power klaws, one painboy on a bike, sprinkle in DLS and the blitzbike, then have them all join a min size unit of regular bikers. Take a couple of extra min size units of bikers for them to join when their meat shields get killed, since they're all ICs and can all join the same unit. Give the warlord a finkin' cap to try to outflank them for extra fun times. Let the biker nob eat challenges to keep the bosses swinging.

They're T6 so they can't be doubled out, 4+, FNP, they can jink, and get 3+ cover if they turboboost. In combat, they've got 25 attacks at WS6 S10 ap2, and if you give them attack squigs because why not at this point they can each reroll a miss. Shooting they've still got 18 shots S5 TL, and the blitzbike can be a nasty surprise for MEQs as well.

Only downside is it's like 700 points, but on paper anyway it sounds pretty 'ard to me. Has anyone tried this, or is there some reason that it's just a terrible idea and I should feel bad that I'm not seeing, besides the semi-obscene points cost?

I've not ran 5 warboss, but i have ran two. Warboss on the blitz bike and Zhadsnark. Warboss on the bike had DLS. Then a pain boy on a bike and a big mek on a bike. Big mek had KFF and a killsaw. Big mek is mainly their to provide an invu from shooting attacks that have ignore cover and ap4. Plus could break off from the mainly unit to go snag a late objective. You could do the same with the 5 warbosses. Keep them together and then when it comes down to last turn, split the squad up and go grab objectives. Going 2nd would really in that instant.

I have a list with 7 min, 2 PK and 5 BC. The reason for 7 is 5 regular Bikerz with PK Nob, PainBoy on Bike, and KFF Killsaw on Bike. You start out with average T6 and lose all the regular Bikerz first. Cheap expendable wounds.

When 7th first came out I wanted 10 Warbosses with 10 NobBikerz and Looted wagons with cheap DeffRollas. Then The Ork codex came out and that plan when down the toilet.

10 warbosses would be a lot of fun.

 PipeAlley wrote:

I have a list with 7 min, 2 PK and 5 BC. The reason for 7 is 5 regular Bikerz with PK Nob, PainBoy on Bike, and KFF Killsaw on Bike. You start out with average T6 and lose all the regular Bikerz first. Cheap expendable wounds.

When 7th first came out I wanted 10 Warbosses with 10 NobBikerz and Looted wagons with cheap DeffRollas. Then The Ork codex came out and that plan when down the toilet.

How are you getting 7 warbosses in, or are you just playing unbound?

Anyway, how does the unit perform? On paper it sounds like if it could catch a wraithknight or a titan it would eat it alive with attacks to spare.

 office_waaagh wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:

I have a list with 7 min, 2 PK and 5 BC. The reason for 7 is 5 regular Bikerz with PK Nob, PainBoy on Bike, and KFF Killsaw on Bike. You start out with average T6 and lose all the regular Bikerz first. Cheap expendable wounds.

When 7th first came out I wanted 10 Warbosses with 10 NobBikerz and Looted wagons with cheap DeffRollas. Then The Ork codex came out and that plan when down the toilet.

How are you getting 7 warbosses in, or are you just playing unbound?



Anyway, how does the unit perform? On paper it sounds like if it could catch a wraithknight or a titan it would eat it alive with attacks to spare.

He has a total of 9 HQs in his list, which means he would need to play 3 great waagh detachments and take 6 troop choices.

 Glitcha wrote:


He has a total of 9 HQs in his list, which means he would need to play 3 great waagh detachments and take 6 troop choices.

Does the great waaagh detachment give you three HQs? I thought it was +2 elites and +2 troops, and you needed an ork horde detachment with 3 compulsory troops choices to get the 3 HQs. Haven't got my Ghazzie codex handy to confirm though.

Edit: Yeah, ork horde detachment is 3 HQs available with 1 mandatory HQ and 3 mandatory troops. Great Waaagh detachment is 2 HQs with one mandatory HQ, troops, and elite. So he'd have to take 3 Ork Hordes with 9 troops choices minimum.

 office_waaagh wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:


He has a total of 9 HQs in his list, which means he would need to play 3 great waagh detachments and take 6 troop choices.

Does the great waaagh detachment give you three HQs? I thought it was +2 elites and +2 troops, and you needed an ork horde detachment with 3 compulsory troops choices to get the 3 HQs. Haven't got my Ghazzie codex handy to confirm though.

Edit: Yeah, ork horde detachment is 3 HQs available with 1 mandatory HQ and 3 mandatory troops. Great Waaagh detachment is 2 HQs with one mandatory HQ, troops, and elite. So he'd have to take 3 Ork Hordes with 9 troops choices minimum.

Yeah you are right. I get the names mixed up. The one I was talking about is the basic ork codex.

 Rismonite wrote:
office_waaagh seems like a wonderful name.. I was pleased.. Thanks.

Glad I could make you smile!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Glitcha, how does your unit perform? I considered a big mek to take challenges and so on, but I thought an extra boss would be better offensively while defensively, a mob of bikers as ablative wounds is cheaper than a bik mek on a bike with KFF, since the ICs all have 2+ LoS anyway.

Bringing a bunch of bikebosses and a few mobs of bikers lets you split them apart as well and take on MSU armies more effectively, since five warbosses is probably overkill for a lot of stuff, and you can only kill so many things at once. Two bosses on bikes with a biker nob and three bikers lose the T6 majority toughness but could easily pulverize an MC or small troops unit each in one turn. Now, having said all this, I've never actually tried this, but building it would be a bit of an investment so I'm wondering if there's a reason not to do it that I'm not seeing.

 office_waaagh wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:

I have a list with 7 min, 2 PK and 5 BC. The reason for 7 is 5 regular Bikerz with PK Nob, PainBoy on Bike, and KFF Killsaw on Bike. You start out with average T6 and lose all the regular Bikerz first. Cheap expendable wounds.

When 7th first came out I wanted 10 Warbosses with 10 NobBikerz and Looted wagons with cheap DeffRollas. Then The Ork codex came out and that plan when down the toilet.

How are you getting 7 warbosses in, or are you just playing unbound?

Anyway, how does the unit perform? On paper it sounds like if it could catch a wraithknight or a titan it would eat it alive with attacks to spare.

Unbound unbound unbound!! Apparently I'm the only person on Dakka who worships unbound.

Against a good, experienced player it folds easily. Breaking of Bosses is very useful. They can join my single unit DeffKoptas for ablative wounds. Win or lose, it's a headache for my opponent.

 PipeAlley wrote:

Unbound unbound unbound!! Apparently I'm the only person on Dakka who worships unbound.

Against a good, experienced player it folds easily. Breaking of Bosses is very useful. They can join my single unit DeffKoptas for ablative wounds. Win or lose, it's a headache for my opponent.

Hey man, unbound is cool with me! I wouldn't want to build a super-powered unit out of unbound units, is all. You need your opponent's permission to field an unbound list, and it's not exactly sporting to say "can I have your permission to field ten HQs?" in a casual setting, if your opponent's showed up to play a CAD. And in a pick-up game, I imagine an opponent just saying "...no."

I play mostly battleforged, but I've played against plenty of themed unbound lists and it's a lot of fun. As unbound isn't universally accepted, though, I'm wondering whether it's been tried in the context of a pick-up game which I imagine would have to be battleforged. Anyway, what do you find are the achilles' heels of a unit like this? In my head, I'm picturing it having trouble against something like a Wolfstar or maybe psychic shenanigans, or maybe just not being able to kill small units fast enough to make back its points. That and sinking half your points into one unit might leave the rest of the army a bit lacking...what do you use to back them up?

What are my fellow Warboss's thoughts on Grot Tanks? Personally, i like them and i'll their rules, but how do they stack up in the competitive ork world?

Always liked Grot Tanks. Now they seem like straight up better Kans - in a less crowded slot (so many good HS that outshine the kans), 5+ invulns instead of nothing, no morale tests, mass tank shock ability, the CCW on the kans that they trade for all this is worse, and Grot Tanks are 40% cheaper (30 vs 50) than a Kan.

The only reason to field Kans IMO is because an army with kans *and* tanks looks even better than an army with tanks. And I guess because 2d6 movement is pretty annoying

I've already started looking for cheap tanks to convert up, plan to have quite a few of these things before long