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I havent played guard often but I think 'ard boys in battlewagons should wipe those blobs pretty easy. Flamers, too, since guard are only T3.

Lobbas are good to spam wounds and barrage snipe out whatever priest or commissar they have for moral control. Soften them up so the boyz can charge in and sweep them.

 Matthew wrote:
Just a question, what's the best way to deal with infantry heavy guardsmen armies?

This is the time to pull out all those redundant anti infantry units we orks excel in but usually swap out for other selections to deal with tougher targets. Kommandos, Storm Boyz, Burnaboyz, Big Choppa Nobz, Big mobz of Choppa Boyz screened by Gretchen, units of 5 Lobbas, Lootas and heck the Burna Bomma should even shine here. Your Boyz should be marching up behind the Gretchen with support fire whittling down the numbers while the Kommandos and Stormboy mobz mess with the opponent's target priorities. Out-horde your opponant and bury him under dice and wounds. T4 against flashlights will do its thing and wow orks will be rolling their t shirt save.

well i guss my orks are back to uselessness. charge a character so the nob and unit can kill it, only to have the nob die, the boyz unable to contribute, lose by 2, run and get run down. this is not a fix games workshop.

Matthew wrote:Just a question, what's the best way to deal with infantry heavy guardsmen armies?

Lobbas are amazing, Barrage completely gets around ADL and can snipe the special weapons by placing the blast on the them. Boyz Squads will also beat them in combat.

Orock wrote:well i guss my orks are back to uselessness. charge a character so the nob and unit can kill it, only to have the nob die, the boyz unable to contribute, lose by 2, run and get run down. this is not a fix games workshop.

Sigh..

 Frozocrone wrote:

Matthew wrote:Just a question, what's the best way to deal with infantry heavy guardsmen armies?

Lobbas are amazing, Barrage completely gets around ADL and can snipe the special weapons by placing the blast on the them. Boyz Squads will also beat them in combat.

Orock wrote:well i guss my orks are back to uselessness. charge a character so the nob and unit can kill it, only to have the nob die, the boyz unable to contribute, lose by 2, run and get run down. this is not a fix games workshop.

Sigh..

I think that might have been a typo, apparently some of the questions are fethed up and they can't replace the picture because the facebook text version next to it says:

"Q: If a unit charges a single-character unit and a challenge is issued, do the non-character units still get to attack the single character?
A: Yes."

Ooh, I couldn't find that particular picture on my phone but I was aware some pictures were wrong.

Good to know that. But I'm still gonna run 15 pt Meks in my blobs just to keep the Nob alive. It's not as if challenges are a good thing.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Ooh, I couldn't find that particular picture on my phone but I was aware some pictures were wrong.

Good to know that. But I'm still gonna run 15 pt Meks in my blobs just to keep the Nob alive. It's not as if challenges are a good thing.

Unless you are an Orkorion ghazkull.
Then he doesn't care and gets stronger with it. (Reroll wounds rest of game)

 Orock wrote:
well i guss my orks are back to uselessness. charge a character so the nob and unit can kill it, only to have the nob die, the boyz unable to contribute, lose by 2, run and get run down. this is not a fix games workshop.

Actually, if you go back to the facebook page that part was posted, you'll see in the description that this has already been edited. The description says that, yes, the "Nowhere to Hide" rule still applies. I was worried, too, when I read that, so I made sure to double-check the description.

I am really sad about the tankbusta nerf btw. Just finished 20 of them.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am really sad about the tankbusta nerf btw. Just finished 20 of them.

Same here, and I've got a game against Knights tonight..

Still will be using Bustas though, I might just have to add a Nob in future though, maybe a tankhammer.

Still I'll be trying something slightly different with my force tonight, will be using the Bossboyz formation, for bike mounted KFF's and Warboss, thrown in with bikers, Deffkoptas, Manz missile etc.. A fast force with good KFF coverage.
Also will be taking a Blitzabomma which works wonders when given outflank thanks to the Bossboyz rule. Always gets at least one bomb off before interceptor..

 grendel083 wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am really sad about the tankbusta nerf btw. Just finished 20 of them.

Same here, and I've got a game against Knights tonight..

Still will be using Bustas though, I might just have to add a Nob in future though, maybe a tankhammer.

Still I'll be trying something slightly different with my force tonight, will be using the Bossboyz formation, for bike mounted KFF's and Warboss, thrown in with bikers, Deffkoptas, Manz missile etc.. A fast force with good KFF coverage.
Also will be taking a Blitzabomma which works wonders when given outflank thanks to the Bossboyz rule. Always gets at least one bomb off before interceptor..

Won't use the FAQ until it is official, do you?

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Won't use the FAQ until it is official, do you?

Well it might be one of those things we just have to get used to sadly. Might as well try it sooner rather than later.

Wouldn't be so bad if Tankhammers weren't so poor. Still, Outflanking Tankbustas can be very effective

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am really sad about the tankbusta nerf btw. Just finished 20 of them.

The FAQ image thread is now over 300 complaints long, shredding this ruling in every conceivable way.

Make sure you post! If they get enough complaints the might reverse themselves, at least for meltabombs.

 Orock wrote:
well i guss my orks are back to uselessness. charge a character so the nob and unit can kill it, only to have the nob die, the boyz unable to contribute, lose by 2, run and get run down. this is not a fix games workshop.

Sorry man, but the pictures on the warhammer 40,000 facebook page are wrong. GW posted that you should read the comment section on each picture for the correct answer. When you charge a single character unit, all models get to attack, even if there is a challenge.

Several of the pictures are wrong. GW is not able to change the pictures with out deleting everyone's feed back. This is why they have not taken down the false pictures.

Unrelated to the current discussion:

Whats the ork strategy to killing imperial knights (and their equivalents)? MSU Tankbustas in trukks? Powerklaws are the main ork vehicle killer but against stomp attacks idk.

 Don Savik wrote:
Unrelated to the current discussion:

Whats the ork strategy to killing imperial knights (and their equivalents)? MSU Tankbustas in trukks? Powerklaws are the main ork vehicle killer but against stomp attacks idk.

Depends on the FAQ ruling.

It used to be sacrificial tankbustas. The stomp can't always cover the tankbustas if they can spread out evenly around it.

Now? Not much. The PK might get a couple of hull points, but it will probably die.

 Don Savik wrote:
Unrelated to the current discussion:

Whats the ork strategy to killing imperial knights (and their equivalents)? MSU Tankbustas in trukks? Powerklaws are the main ork vehicle killer but against stomp attacks idk.

Tankbustas, while currently nerfed under the recent FAQ draft, is more or less still our first line of defence because of how invaluable tank hunter is. At this point tankhammers make more sense and are needed in CC with knights. Killsaws on MANZ missiles may also potentially work, though in that case it really depends on how lucky the Knight player is in rolling his to hit rolls. It's a mix of whittling them down a bit with some of our ranged weapons like tankbusta rokkits and lootas and attempting to finish them off in CC.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Don Savik wrote:
Unrelated to the current discussion:

Whats the ork strategy to killing imperial knights (and their equivalents)? MSU Tankbustas in trukks? Powerklaws are the main ork vehicle killer but against stomp attacks idk.

Tankbustas, while currently nerfed under the recent FAQ draft, is more or less still our first line of defence because of how invaluable tank hunter is. At this point tankhammers make more sense and are needed in CC with knights. Killsaws on MANZ missiles may also potentially work, though in that case it really depends on how lucky the Knight player is in rolling his to hit rolls. It's a mix of whittling them down a bit with some of our ranged weapons like tankbusta rokkits and lootas and attempting to finish them off in CC.

Holy krap...just figgured somethin'...put a killsaw mek in with tankbustas...that will be 3 attacks (st7) with armorbane & tankhunter. So each hit has 2d6+7 (rerollable) on penetrating...almost as good as the melta bombs.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Don Savik wrote:
Unrelated to the current discussion:

Whats the ork strategy to killing imperial knights (and their equivalents)? MSU Tankbustas in trukks? Powerklaws are the main ork vehicle killer but against stomp attacks idk.

Tankbustas, while currently nerfed under the recent FAQ draft, is more or less still our first line of defence because of how invaluable tank hunter is. At this point tankhammers make more sense and are needed in CC with knights. Killsaws on MANZ missiles may also potentially work, though in that case it really depends on how lucky the Knight player is in rolling his to hit rolls. It's a mix of whittling them down a bit with some of our ranged weapons like tankbusta rokkits and lootas and attempting to finish them off in CC.

Holy krap...just figgured somethin'...put a killsaw mek in with tankbustas...that will be 3 attacks (st7) with armorbane & tankhunter. So each hit has 2d6+7 (rerollable) on penetrating...almost as good as the melta bombs.

That's actually a really good idea. Nice catch JimOnMars! A nice way to work around our current predicament.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Don Savik wrote:
Unrelated to the current discussion:

Whats the ork strategy to killing imperial knights (and their equivalents)? MSU Tankbustas in trukks? Powerklaws are the main ork vehicle killer but against stomp attacks idk.

Tankbustas, while currently nerfed under the recent FAQ draft, is more or less still our first line of defence because of how invaluable tank hunter is. At this point tankhammers make more sense and are needed in CC with knights. Killsaws on MANZ missiles may also potentially work, though in that case it really depends on how lucky the Knight player is in rolling his to hit rolls. It's a mix of whittling them down a bit with some of our ranged weapons like tankbusta rokkits and lootas and attempting to finish them off in CC.

Holy krap...just figgured somethin'...put a killsaw mek in with tankbustas...that will be 3 attacks (st7) with armorbane & tankhunter. So each hit has 2d6+7 (rerollable) on penetrating...almost as good as the melta bombs.

Good idea. Mini Meks aren't IC's either, so no need to worry about any of those shenanigans or FAQ rules changes.

Jeez, you're right. If that's the case I'll probably say screw it to the tankbusta nob and just put a mek with a killsaw in there. Sure, he can't take a bosspole, but they're suicide squads anyway.

Why not just take a Nob with a PK? The cost of a mek with a killsaw is 45 points compared to a tankbusta nob which is 48 points, but is also s9 with 1 more attack, a rokket launcha and 2 wounds. I mean I get that armorbane is better then having 1 more point of strength for attacking vehicles, but the Nob is far more versatile and is at least s8 so he can instant death t4 guys he ends up fighting which for 3 points I think is worth it.

Killsaw mek is 45 pts for a one wound model. And it's likely that a nob is better at killing knights than a mek. Especially when getting charged. He can also occasionally survive stomps unlike mek.

Really, though, still a great idea! Maybe even better with putting a MA warboss in it? S10 PK that is AB? Oh yes. Worried about pre-stomps? Give him a big choppa, and you get I4 S8 hits before the stomps come down. Maybe not the most HQ efficient option, but food for thought.

 koooaei wrote:
Killsaw mek is 45 pts for a one wound model. And it's likely that a nob is better at killing knights than a mek. Especially when getting charged. He can also occasionally survive stomps unlike mek.

This is the first thing that came to mind when I saw that.

https://youtu.be/kx-S1BEMh0s?t=23

Hey all, sorry to interrupt the flow of FAQ hate, which is totally justified but has been explained to me that the grenade combat thing is almost certainly and error but I just wanted to draw your attention to something.

I'm not sure on the rules here for pointing you all to another thread so I won't link it but over in general discussion I have a topic called - death from the skies: best thing to happen to orks in 7th ed.

The title is self explanatory, the main post and my reply post in it summarise, hopefully, why I feel we have gotten a few nice things from that book. It does not fix our issues, but it at least is a bone thrown in our direction.

Would love our opinions because you've all helped me play my boyz so much.

 koooaei wrote:
Killsaw mek is 45 pts for a one wound model. And it's likely that a nob is better at killing knights than a mek. Especially when getting charged. He can also occasionally survive stomps unlike mek.

So true. But the Mek idea is a nice one, especially in the larger units....altough then you'll also need a Nob.

And you end up with a 200 pt unit of 6+ dudes in a paper-thin truck that is only good at killing vehicles.

I think we're better off with Killsaw manz. 4-5 will do. Leave Tankbustas in small squads for that occasional meltabomb and a bunch of rokkits. They will still wreck av10 like no big deal, still shoot a bit but they're not suited to killing SHW no more.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Why not just take a Nob with a PK? The cost of a mek with a killsaw is 45 points compared to a tankbusta nob which is 48 points, but is also s9 with 1 more attack, a rokket launcha and 2 wounds. I mean I get that armorbane is better then having 1 more point of strength for attacking vehicles, but the Nob is far more versatile and is at least s8 so he can instant death t4 guys he ends up fighting which for 3 points I think is worth it.

The problem is that the Tankbusta Nob does not have a melee weapon to trade for a PK. He only has a rokkit launcha, just like the rest of his unit. The only legal way to give him a PK is to upgrade a Tankbusta with a Tankhammer, then make him a Nob, then give him a PK. 13+15+10+25 = 63 points. Which is ridiculous.

Yes, it's an oversight and you could argue RAI, but that's what it says in the codex.

Let's hope that an Ork FAQ is going to happen soon which will fix this problem (along with several others in the Ork codex).