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I dunno... as far as season finales go, this one was kind of... meh? The pacing seemed off, for some reason... maybe its just me, but the "siege" of winterfell especially... just seemed wrong. Besides, Id have really enjoyed seeing Melisandre die in the flames for doing what she did. Though one thing I did enjoy about her: She was pretty wrapped up when she arrived at the Wall. Looks like her god may have forsaken her, at least for now.

Dorne was horrible as always.

And the betrayal... dunno. Seemed to ritualistic. Id have preferred a single guy just stabbing him in passing, and no one around Jon caring.

The Watch is all about ritual though.

My bet's on him either being ressurected by Melissandra or be reborn during his funeral burning.

The Winterfell scene was perfect. Stannis had zero chance to win. Zero. No troops, no siege engines. He did not want to win the battle, he wanted to die. He ran from his problems, he ran from his responsibility and died as he valued his pride more than his blood.

 Sigvatr wrote:
My bet's on him either being ressurected by Melissandra or be reborn during his funeral burning.

The Winterfell scene was perfect. Stannis had zero chance to win. Zero. No troops, no siege engines. He did not want to win the battle, he wanted to die. He ran from his problems, he ran from his responsibility and died as he valued his pride more than his blood.

Hence why he charged into battle.

He stopped caring.

And yeah I agree jon is coming back. But I am a stannis fan, kind of sad to see him go like that.

When Pycelle sees Cersei...dat eyebrow raise.

Also, what is the policy on spoilers now? Stannis losing the battle of Winterfell and (apparently) dying at Brienne's hand is a HUGE spoiler for book readers (though the latter may be made on the part of D&D).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When Pycelle sees Cersei...dat eyebrow raise.

Also, what is the policy on spoilers now? Stannis losing the battle of Winterfell and (apparently) dying at Brienne's hand is a HUGE spoiler for book readers (though the latter may be made on the part of D&D).

My golden rule is if we don't see their body they aren't dead.

Its also what I do in my book ^.^

Odds are they are probably still alive unless you see their corpse or hear them dying.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When Pycelle sees Cersei...dat eyebrow raise.

Also, what is the policy on spoilers now? Stannis losing the battle of Winterfell and (apparently) dying at Brienne's hand is a HUGE spoiler for book readers (though the latter may be made on the part of D&D).

My golden rule is if we don't see their body they aren't dead.

Which is why I said apparently.

Either way, Stannis losing the battle is a HUGE spoiler.

Jon ain't coming back.

 jy2 wrote:
Jon ain't coming back.

Lies.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When Pycelle sees Cersei...dat eyebrow raise.

Also, what is the policy on spoilers now? Stannis losing the battle of Winterfell and (apparently) dying at Brienne's hand is a HUGE spoiler for book readers (though the latter may be made on the part of D&D).

My golden rule is if we don't see their body they aren't dead.

Which is why I said apparently.

Either way, Stannis losing the battle is a HUGE spoiler.

In the show. Remember the book and the show are starting to diverge. In the book it might not be.

Jon ain't coming back.

Keep telling yourself that. There has been way too much foreshadowing to suggest he isn't going to die.

Him being betrayed has been alluded to since Alliser Thorne was made First Ranger.

That's one of the things I like about this show. They kill off characters like I pop some zits in the morning.

The only characters that shouldn't die is the midget and the dragon babe.

BTW, I haven't read the books so I could be wrong.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Jon ain't coming back.

Keep telling yourself that. There has been way too much foreshadowing to suggest he isn't going to die.

Him being betrayed has been alluded to since Alliser Thorne was made First Ranger.

On second thought. Maybe he's right. Jon Snow isn't coming back.

...

But Azor Ahai?

Kill the boy and let the man be born.

Maybe Ramsey will save the day - or at least the North - now that would be a twist...............

Re: spoilers: Unless something has been confirmed as happening in the book by an outside source (ie, GRRM), Id hold off on it. If somethings happened in the series, you cant really tell if its a spoiler. Maybe itll happen completely differently in the books, and Stannis survives. At least for a bit. Maybe hell take Winterfell, and then get killed or otherwise removed.

Also, I'm a little disappointed in Robert Strong. I liked the book theory about him being a headless zombie with Gre...(Do I really need to spoiler this? ) skull having been sent to Dorne as proof of death (and atonement for his murder of Elia Martell and her kids).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When Pycelle sees Cersei...dat eyebrow raise.

Also, what is the policy on spoilers now? Stannis losing the battle of Winterfell and (apparently) dying at Brienne's hand is a HUGE spoiler for book readers (though the latter may be made on the part of D&D).

It happened in the series, we're free to talk about it.

 jy2 wrote:
That's one of the things I like about this show. They kill off characters like I pop some zits in the morning.

The only characters that shouldn't die is the midget and the dragon babe.

Thats actually why I dislike this show quite a bit. We are going to see a large influx of characters next season and I am going to be bored out of my mind.

If you keep up a centralized cast for a large parts of the books and systematically wipe out most of the characters. There aren't going to be many characters that people will connect with and identify with.

Its actually why I hate the books so much. I think they are terribly written because the characters are constantly killed. There is no reason to identify with them or see these characters as people if you know that they are just going to die to serve the plot.

I remember one book I was reading and the character (one of the main characters mind you) Is just killed outright, bang dead. Out of nowhere. It was heart breaking, because we all identified with the character. But this season. I just watched and didn't care. Pircella didn't care. Robb Stark Didn't care, Robert Baratheon Didn't care, Eddard Stark didn't care. Why? Because I had no connection to them because they were just there for a season and bang they are dead why? Because of plot and not to serve any other purpose but to move the story forward and to ensure there is a tight nit group of characters.

Major book spoilers below



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Jon ain't coming back.

Keep telling yourself that. There has been way too much foreshadowing to suggest he isn't going to die.

Him being betrayed has been alluded to since Alliser Thorne was made First Ranger.

On second thought. Maybe he's right. Jon Snow isn't coming back.

...

But Azor Ahai?

Kill the boy and let the man be born.

Maybe. From what I have seen and reading between the lines and the way jon died.

Maybe.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Maybe Ramsey will save the day - or at least the North - now that would be a twist...............

Good Guy Ramsay

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When Pycelle sees Cersei...dat eyebrow raise.

Also, what is the policy on spoilers now? Stannis losing the battle of Winterfell and (apparently) dying at Brienne's hand is a HUGE spoiler for book readers (though the latter may be made on the part of D&D).

Not really, anyone can kill Stannis in the book. This is a big break for Brienne though, having finally acheived one of her goals. I was expecting Ramsey to find him. Looking back it was clear from the Battle of Blackwater that Stannis would never be king. He just doesn't have a loser made good arc.

Stannis did a great thing, he saved the wall (and therfore the 7 kingdoms). How qiickly we forget. I really want to see who the onion knight attaces himself to, I predict greatness for him, or he will get killed and I'll be here complaining about it.

What if Jon Snow's role was to discover the Valaryan steel thing then die? Brienne is packing and Sam (perpetual victim) is heading south.

Meh episode, Cersei scene took about 10 minutes too long, battle had zero screentime.

 Soladrin wrote:
Meh episode, Cersei scene took about 10 minutes too long, battle had zero screentime.

I was quite bored in that scene too.

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Maybe Ramsey will save the day - or at least the North - now that would be a twist...............

Good Guy Ramsay

nah he's never going to be a good guy - but as Tyrion said - he might be the right kind of Tyrant A few good stories have a evil main character doing the good things...........didn't make them good but it was interesting.

He is not going to want a load of zombies wandering all over "his" land - they don't feel pain after all.

Overall the finale was ok. It does beg two questions though. 1. Where did Boltons get all that cavalry from? Did all the sell swords defect and join the Boltons? Can't really blame them I wouldn't want to work for a guy that burned is own daughter alive.

2. I am still unsure whether or not Sansa and Theon survived that fall. At first I thought they had committed suicide but I think now they were supposed to survive that. Maybe a huge snow drift as at the base of the castle walls and that's how they survived?

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When Pycelle sees Cersei...dat eyebrow raise.

Also, what is the policy on spoilers now? Stannis losing the battle of Winterfell and (apparently) dying at Brienne's hand is a HUGE spoiler for book readers (though the latter may be made on the part of D&D).

It happened in the series, we're free to talk about it.

And we're free to put you on ignore because you insist one being a dick to everyone who didn't watch the episode the minute it aired.

It sure seemed like they were foreshadowing that jon will come back,


the lady in red wanted power from kings blood, so burned the little girl, who does not actually have kings blood because stannis is not the true king.


she knows jon snow has the real deal, so went back to him for that reason.

when she finds him dead, I suspect she will try to bring him back.

the scene dwelled on jons blood for a long time, it seemed like a definate foreshadowing to me.

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Overall the finale was ok. It does beg two questions though. 1. Where did Boltons get all that cavalry from? Did all the sell swords defect and join the Boltons? Can't really blame them I wouldn't want to work for a guy that burned is own daughter alive.

2. I am still unsure whether or not Sansa and Theon survived that fall. At first I thought they had committed suicide but I think now they were supposed to survive that. Maybe a huge snow drift as at the base of the castle walls and that's how they survived?

If they did survive, where are they going to go?

Bah, Snow was my favourite character for a long time. I are sad.

Average season all round for me, some decent episodes (last 3 mainly) but not a patch on previous ones.

When do the boltons get their cumupence? they are neither watchable, engaging nor likeable. Evil iz evil has gotten verrrrry tedious with them.

I liked the long zoom in on Jon at the end. Reminded me of the line "He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold". Or whatever it was.

Were his wounds smoking?

Or perhaps...

Born in salt and smoke.

Salt = Olly's tears.
Smoke = the torches.

 DarkLink wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Overall the finale was ok. It does beg two questions though. 1. Where did Boltons get all that cavalry from? Did all the sell swords defect and join the Boltons? Can't really blame them I wouldn't want to work for a guy that burned is own daughter alive.

2. I am still unsure whether or not Sansa and Theon survived that fall. At first I thought they had committed suicide but I think now they were supposed to survive that. Maybe a huge snow drift as at the base of the castle walls and that's how they survived?

If they did survive, where are they going to go?

Not sure, they have no supplies, Theon is not really dressed for exposure and Sansa is wearing a dress which slow her down when they inevitability get people chasing after them. I don't know maybe Podrick will find them?

edit: North to the wall would be my guess for a direction. Jon Snow is at Castle black as far as they know and Theon lost the trail for the boys on their way north. They would be the only family Sansa has at this point.

 Ratius wrote:
Bah, Snow was my favourite character for a long time. I are sad.

Average season all round for me, some decent episodes (last 3 mainly) but not a patch on previous ones.

When do the boltons get their cumupence? they are neither watchable, engaging nor likeable. Evil iz evil has gotten verrrrry tedious with them.

They probably will at some point - Ramsey and his father are not at all likeable - but they do have style and my friends and I do find them very watchable and engaging - so different strokes.

Jon Snow and his male relations have always been the ones that did nothing for me - and seemed the most likely to get killed due to thier inflexibility and foolish actions - Jon had very strong plot shields till now...........................

not seen it yet - watching tonight but more worried about whats happened to Dany who decided to bugger off and leave her friends to die :(