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I mean, Benjen is with the legitimate heir to Winterfell right now. So I doubt it's ever going to come up. Granted given when he left he might not know about Ned even or that his oldest nephew is dead but I doubt the legitimacy issue is going to come up. I'm not sure Ben can go south of the wall yet. Same magic that keeps the White Walkers from just flooding over it.

Overall a solid set building episode. I enjoyed it quite a bit. Things are going to get interesting next week and I think it's only going to build heavier and faster going forward from this week.

Re: the will, they could spring it on us. That can just be done as a revelation to viewers. Look at how the show is playing catch-up this season with all the background stuff they've missed. It'd just be another thing.

And of course, the GNC might not be true and the story could take a different route.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I mean, Benjen is with the legitimate heir to Winterfell right now.

I thought he had to give that up when he took the black. He is now sworn to protect the 7 kingdoms, not just Winterfell.

 kronk wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I mean, Benjen is with the legitimate heir to Winterfell right now.

I thought he had to give that up when he took the black. He is now sworn to protect the 7 kingdoms, not just Winterfell.

Technically, it could be argued that he fulfilled his oath when he died. He's no longer bound by the oath, but the same magic that stops the White Walkers travelling through the Wall also stops Coldhands / Benjen Stalk. He's effectively a slave to the Children of the Forest. Even if he wanted to press his claim to Winterfell, he's trapped north of the Wall.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Benjen doesn't really have a legitimate claim on Winterfell since Ned had children and some of them are still living.

Also, Jon was named Robb's heir to King in the North so there's that...

Depends - he is a "legitimate and male" and historically in similar societies than will be more significant than "daughter and legitimate" If Rickon gets sliced and diced as seems likely that the last known male Stark.

- look at what happened in the Iron Isles last episode.......

however he does not look like he is in a hurry to claim anything...........so likely a non issue.

Who named Jon as such - if it was Stanis that's meaningless then and now

It wouldn't be Stannis as he wouldn't have even recognised a King in the North - he was the rightful heir to the whole seven kingdoms.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Benjen doesn't really have a legitimate claim on Winterfell since Ned had children and some of them are still living.

Also, Jon was named Robb's heir to King in the North so there's that...

Depends - he is a "legitimate and male" and historically in similar societies than will be more significant than "daughter and legitimate" If Rickon gets sliced and diced as seems likely that the last known male Stark.

- look at what happened in the Iron Isles last episode.......

however he does not look like he is in a hurry to claim anything...........so likely a non issue.

Who named Jon as such - if it was Stanis that's meaningless then and now

It wouldn't be Stannis as he wouldn't have even recognised a King in the North - he was the rightful heir to the whole seven kingdoms.

Indeed I can't think of anyone who coud or would?

Sansa I guess could as the sister of the last King of the North, Jon could name himself..............

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Benjen doesn't really have a legitimate claim on Winterfell since Ned had children and some of them are still living.

Also, Jon was named Robb's heir to King in the North so there's that...

Depends - he is a "legitimate and male" and historically in similar societies than will be more significant than "daughter and legitimate" If Rickon gets sliced and diced as seems likely that the last known male Stark.

- look at what happened in the Iron Isles last episode.......

however he does not look like he is in a hurry to claim anything...........so likely a non issue.

Who named Jon as such - if it was Stanis that's meaningless then and now

It wouldn't be Stannis as he wouldn't have even recognised a King in the North - he was the rightful heir to the whole seven kingdoms.

Indeed I can't think of anyone who coud or would?

Sansa I guess could as the sister of the last King of the North, Jon could name himself..............

It was Robb in his will (in the book that is, I think anyway).

He talks about doing it, but it's not 100% clear whether he does or not.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Benjen doesn't really have a legitimate claim on Winterfell since Ned had children and some of them are still living.

Also, Jon was named Robb's heir to King in the North so there's that...

Depends - he is a "legitimate and male" and historically in similar societies than will be more significant than "daughter and legitimate" If Rickon gets sliced and diced as seems likely that the last known male Stark.

- look at what happened in the Iron Isles last episode.......

however he does not look like he is in a hurry to claim anything...........so likely a non issue.

Who named Jon as such - if it was Stanis that's meaningless then and now

It wouldn't be Stannis as he wouldn't have even recognised a King in the North - he was the rightful heir to the whole seven kingdoms.

Indeed I can't think of anyone who coud or would?

Sansa I guess could as the sister of the last King of the North, Jon could name himself..............

It was Robb in his will (in the book that is, I think anyway).

Robb made it official in the books. He discussed it in the show, but I don't think it was ever solidified.

I'm pretty sure he discusses it with Catelyn in the books, but it's not clear if he does, and if he does who knows and where the will is.

Some glorious eagle eyed bastards at the CB reddit noticed this from the trailer for this sundays episode. The hype is real



Also it has to be real because it has a magazine cover now

 kronk wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I mean, Benjen is with the legitimate heir to Winterfell right now.

I thought he had to give that up when he took the black. He is now sworn to protect the 7 kingdoms, not just Winterfell.

Pretty sure giving up all claims is part of the vows of the NW as well

Isn't that what he just said there?!?

'Taking the Black' IS the same thing as 'joining the Night's Watch'...

Although, I've just realised Hulksmash actually said 'Benjen is with the legitimate heir to Winterfell...' meaning Bran, not that Benjen is the legitimate heir to Winterfell.

 Alpharius wrote:
Isn't that what he just said there?!?

'Taking the Black' IS the same thing as 'joining the Night's Watch'...

Well, unless you are Sam and you do whatever you like...............best friends with the Lord-Commander and all that...........rules are for other people However that is in keeping with the real world.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Although, I've just realised Hulksmash actually said 'Benjen is with the legitimate heir to Winterfell...' meaning Bran, not that Benjen is the legitimate heir to Winterfell.

Yep - although again its debatable how many people in the North would tolerate a crippled ruler (any more than Sansa (*) ) when there is a viable alternative. Although if Benjen is not interested then its less of an issue (or can't get over the wall)

()* be interesting to see how the northern Houses see her - many will just see her as a marriage prospect to allow them to rule the North rather than a ruler in her own right

.........Jon is tricky as he s the leader of many will see as a Wildling invasion and possible betrayer of his vows - how many will believe he came back from the dead?

 ImAGeek wrote:
Although, I've just realised Hulksmash actually said 'Benjen is with the legitimate heir to Winterfell...' meaning Bran, not that Benjen is the legitimate heir to Winterfell.

I missed that, as well. However, John Snow also took the Black and had to give up all claims of lands, ladies and lordship.

Like Jon Snow, Benjen is no longer bound by his vows. The vow specifically says that it ends in death. Obviously the original founders of the Nights Watch never foresaw resurrection as a loophole, but the fact remains that they have fulfilled their vows by the letter if not in spirit.

I don't either of them are going to abandon the fight against the white walkers entirely. They both know what's out there, and they both know the threat that the white walkers pose to their homeland, the north. They just have a little more freedom in how they go about fighting the white walkers. Jon Snow is now free to raise an army, retake his home, and unite the North against the white walkers.

Well if Coldhands Benjen is anything like Coldhands in the book, he can't abandon his fight against the White Walkers. The magic that keeps the Others north of the wall also prevents Coldhands from crossing.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-has-revealed-briennes-amazing-secret-1779826779?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


not sure it's that amazing but makes sense if one has read the books p'haps.

 reds8n wrote:
http://io9.gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-has-revealed-briennes-amazing-secret-1779826779?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


not sure it's that amazing but makes sense if one has read the books p'haps.

I was reading about that earlier because I just finished A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms yesterday (basically the three 'Dunk and Egg' stories, about Aegon V Targaryan and his Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Duncan the Tall, when they were younger and Aegon was Duncans squire). They're very good, I definitely recommend them, even if you don't like the other books (or even haven't read them!), because they're entirely unconnected being set ~100 years before the current events. In one of the books Brienne gets her shield repainted to have arms she remembers from a shield in her fathers armoury which is described exactly like the arms Dunk takes in The Hedge Knight, and GRRM said that the book would have a hint about Dunks ancestor. Plus Dunk is almost 7' tall so it would explain Briennes height. Their characters are quite similar too.

 kronk wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Although, I've just realised Hulksmash actually said 'Benjen is with the legitimate heir to Winterfell...' meaning Bran, not that Benjen is the legitimate heir to Winterfell.

I missed that, as well. However, John Snow also took the Black and had to give up all claims of lands, ladies and lordship.

I was wondering why so many people were quoting me about it. Makes more sense now

My thoughts on the succession is that, regardless of Benjen's previous oaths, we're still talking about a man who loved his brother, was raised in the same way as his brother, and loved his brothers kids. That's not a man likely to try to take the North from his nephew. That's the kind of man likely to be his strong right hand if his previous oaths don't apply. And unlike the rest of the Starks Benjen is a known quantity by the North.

All that said I'm not sure that Benjen actually died. He was in the process of death (he said "he left me to die")and was saved by the children. I don't think his oath was ever actually fulfilled like Jon's was.

As for Bran's succeeding Rob I think the north would be fine with a lord like Bran. The north isn't about legs making the man. Not like he was born "weak" or anything. The kid fell off a giant tower most of the men of the north wouldn't be caught climbing. He would just need a reliable lord to lead the armies of which there are likely quite a few once the dust settles. And it's not like he can't keep an eye on everything now

I'm enjoying how this season is going immensely. HBO is doing a stellar job even if the "Strong women" theme is particularly heavy handed this season. If it wasn't for Tyrion and the Sparrow we wouldn't have a single successful intelligent male on this show right now that doesn't have a woman to guide him.

I think Bran should go public with his warging abilities. Its a damn shame that they killed Summer off, just imagine how impressed and intimidated the Northern Lords would be if they knew Bran could warg into and control a fething Direwolf.

Oh well. Theres always the Ice Dragon under Winterfell.

The books didn't have it public, but they did have him warg into Summer frequently if only to experience the joy of being able to walk.

Anyone else think that Arya's been playing possum a little against the waif? Since that first time Arya got the best of her, she's looked very overmatched in all the training sequences. I have a hunch that Arya's been playing the long game and knew that she'd have to fight the waif when it came time for her to bug out.

And I expect that the waif's death will fulfill the red god's demand for a life.

I much prefer the Arya storyline in the books.

I don't think Arya's been holding back but I think the one wearing Jaqen's face might help her out as the Waif is very clearly holding a grudge & being vindictive which a faceless person isn't really meant to do.
That or we might see Arya's warging ability in the show finally

Apparently wossname, Harrington, has shaved his beard - Jon Snow getting the chop(again)? I think I recall reading he's not been allowed to do that between previous seasons.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Apparently wossname, Harrington, has shaved his beard - Jon Snow getting the chop(again)? I think I recall reading he's not been allowed to do that between previous seasons.

Or just getting his hair cut in the show

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Apparently wossname, Harrington, has shaved his beard - Jon Snow getting the chop(again)? I think I recall reading he's not been allowed to do that between previous seasons.

Or just getting his hair cut in the show

Does being flayed living count as having your hair cut, I wonder?

Probably just prettying up to impress his favorite knight....