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 Necros wrote:
Great episode, I liked how Ayia finally did some worthwhile killing.. but Jamie didn't seem too pleased with his sis... I have a feeling she's gonna go nuts and he's going to become the queenslayer sooner or later.

I also loved Varys' teleporter.

won't the dragons get tired flying all the way to king's landing?

Again, it is called the Narrow Sea, right?

Also - the Varys-Arya Teleportation Principle will be in full affect!

Experiment 626 wrote:

- House Lannister still has at least 8,000 professional troops, and being the wealthiest of the kingdoms, can likely raise at least a couple thousand more troops.

Can they? I thought Tywin said that the gold mines had run out, that the Lannisters were broke?

Have to say though I did like the symmetry of GoT starting the entire series on a Stark going out a window and ending on Tommen going out a window.

Cheers

Andrew

Is this TV Arya's Kill List?

Lord Frey via Arya
Cersi
Gregor Clegane
Sandor Clegane
Melisandre
Beric Dondarrion
Thoros of Myr
Ilyn Payne
Meryn Trant via Arya
Joffrey via poison
Tywin via Tyrion

And do we think some will get a pardon?

Like Sandor?

Technically Sandor should be off the list, as she thinks he's dead.
Killing Gregor would be difficult, unless she magically knows he's a zombie and brings a chainsaw or something. I don't think obsidian will work on that type of undead; he doesn't have the eyes.
Isn't Ilyn Payne dead? We haven't seen him for a while.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Technically Sandor should be off the list, as she thinks he's dead.
Killing Gregor would be difficult, unless she magically knows he's a zombie and brings a chainsaw or something. I don't think obsidian will work on that type of undead; he doesn't have the eyes.
Isn't Ilyn Payne dead? We haven't seen him for a while.

Yeah, Ilyn Paynes actor died, so I don't think we'll be seeing him. It's why Brons been Jamie's traveling buddy past couple seasons instead.

As for the teleportation thing, for this episode I am pretending that a bunch of things are happening more spaced out than they appear, and simply occur at some point between Cersei burning stuff and Dany turning up in Westeros to burn stuff.

Wilko Johnson (Ilyn Payne) is totally alive and recovering from cancer, were did you see he died?

Ok, so, I got a completely different read from the Sansa situation.

I was more going along the lines of.

Wow he's still alive?

The reason he departed the show and we haven't seen Ilyn Payne anymore was because of his Cancer Diagnosis. They didn't expect him to live but didn't want to recast him.

Nice to know he's still kicking though.

Turns out the character is still alive too. Tywin Lannister made a reference to Ilyn Payne in the finale of Season 4 "The Children" when he told Tyrion he wouldn't let Payne execute Tyrion (the scene when Tyrion kills his father). The guy could still reprise the character if he wanted to.

Fingers crossed for a few scenes next Season of the new Mad Queen ordering Payne to execute traitors.

 Compel wrote:
Ok, so, I got a completely different read from the Sansa situation.

I was more going along the lines of.

Spoiler:

Littlefinger: That should be you.
Sansa: You know what, that should be me... After all, Jon said that I deserve mum and dads bedroom, why isn't he stopping them.
Littlefinger: That really should be you.
Sansa: Yeah, that really should be me... We need to do something about that.

It could very well be. That was my initial belief as well, that Sansa would just use Jon and then kick him to the curb once she was Queen in the North. Now? I think she hates Littlefinger for giving her to Ramsey and taking the Vale out from under him and working to undermine his control of Robin seems like a nice revenge.

I can't imagine Baelish taking that well though, especially since he is on relatively good terms with Olenna after the help he provided after the Purple Wedding. Mind you with Revenge on their mind I can't imagine anyone wanting to march North with an Army now that winter is here....you know, barring Undead Hordes.

A winter campaign? It depends on how much the writers want to make someone Napoleon.
Which is a pretty apt comparison for Littlefinger, really; short, ambitious, from a small island. It kind of fits.

I think that Sansa was acting altruistically (albeit, still as a wary, cautious player of the game) in the previous episodes.

As for this one.

No, not really.

I think she just knows that she's made an enemy of Littlefinger.

If not for herself, than for Jon!

No I think she just got Jon to take care of Ramsy for her, and now littlefinger is next on her list. I have a feeling though there won't be much time for scheming so much next season.. there will be an army with dragons to the south and an army of undead to the north, so everyone's gonna be too busy fighting

No, I think the fighting in the South will be over within 3 or 4 episodes, and then the snow will hit the fan in the North for the remaining 6 or 7.

Unless they are planning on that rumored Season 8 after all?

Jon gave Sansa plenty of opportunities to press her claim to Winterfell. She knew he didn't want to claim Winterfell, he kept stressing that he is a bastard and she is a Stark. Even when the Lords proclaimed him King, he looked to her for approval and she gave it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also...I was reading the wiki article for this episode and one of the points raised in the notes was...now that Jon Snow's parentage has been confirmed (just not yet widely known) and he's actually the son of Lyanna Stark, not Eddard...that makes Jon and Sansa first cousins, not siblings.

First cousin marriages, or aunt-nephew marriages, are not considered to be Incest under Westerosi law. Jon could marry Sansa (or Daenerys) and it would not be incest.

So, if Bran returns home to Winterfell and reveals the truth, theres nothing stopping Sansa marrying Jon and ruling together with him as King and Queen in the North.

Jonsa? Get hyped! They do make a cute couple.

(though that would be one hell of an awkward marriage, having grown up together believing themselves to be siblings).

 Necros wrote:
No I think she just got Jon to take care of Ramsy for her, and now littlefinger is next on her list. I have a feeling though there won't be much time for scheming so much next season.. there will be an army with dragons to the south and an army of undead to the north, so everyone's gonna be too busy fighting

I think they'll be plenty of scheming next season. Chaos, turmoil and war between nations is a great opportunity to take out political rivals and position yourself to make personal and political gains.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Jon gave Sansa plenty of opportunities to press her claim to Winterfell. She knew he didn't want to claim Winterfell, he kept stressing that he is a bastard and she is a Stark. Even when the Lords proclaimed him King, he looked to her for approval and she gave it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also...I was reading the wiki article for this episode and one of the points raised in the notes was...now that Jon Snow's parentage has been confirmed (just not yet widely known) and he's actually the son of Lyanna Stark, not Eddard...that makes Jon and Sansa first cousins, not siblings.

First cousin marriages, or aunt-nephew marriages, are not considered to be Incest under Westerosi law. Jon could marry Sansa (or Daenerys) and it would not be incest.

So, if Bran returns home to Winterfell and reveals the truth, theres nothing stopping Sansa marrying Jon and ruling together with him as King and Queen in the North.

Jonsa? Get hyped! They do make a cute couple.

(though that would be one hell of an awkward marriage, having grown up together believing themselves to be siblings).

Well, Jon's Targaryen family would approve, if there were any left around. Right now it looks like Jon may end up hooking up with his aunt Dany.

And I don't think Sansa is actually gunning for Jon, although the show may try to keep us guessing about that for a bit.

I think genetics and bloodlines is part of the theme of the story. - Or at least, the novels.

So, part of the thing with bloodlines and inbreeding is that you're selecting for both the good and the bad. - Stronger positive traits, but also the bad - stronger negative traits.

This is why, when you're dealing with animal breeding - eg horses or dogs, you need to be VERY careful or you end up with various health problems.

Going by the saying of, "there's a thin line between brilliance and madness."

Ultimately, the Targaryen bloodline did tend towards the brilliance, hence why they lasted for so long. However, without the infusion of new blood, the negative traits (EG the madness) have ended up overwhelming everything.

However, if you infuse the Targaryen bloodline with another Noble 'well-bred' bloodline, just enough to counter that madness... Like from, say, a Stark. Then you have a revitalised bloodline.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Necros wrote:
Great episode, I liked how Ayia finally did some worthwhile killing.. but Jamie didn't seem too pleased with his sis... I have a feeling she's gonna go nuts and he's going to become the queenslayer sooner or later.

I also loved Varys' teleporter.

won't the dragons get tired flying all the way to king's landing?

Again, it is called the Narrow Sea, right? !

I was just looking at this. Obviously it's a show, and if the plot says they can, then they can... arguing about the physical limitations of a mythical creature is a little dumb. But fun, so let's do it anyway!


By my rough guess, flying from Mereen to King's landing is about the same as flying from Chile to Los Angeles, about 5,000 miles. That seems pretty far too me, "Narrow Sea" or not.

Lets look at birds. The Wandering Albatross has been shown to be able to fly easily twice that - 10,000 miles. It does so by performing an aerodynamic maneuver, rather than "flying" the way we think of it. It can do so efficiently because it has a very large wingspan, almost 12 feet.

Dragons being much larger, they would have no issues doing the exact same thing except my guess would be that dragons are reptiles and so also need to eat much less often than birds do... not that that would be a problem even for birds, since some birds can stay in the air for over 6 months straight.

So my thoughts are that the dragons would have no problem physically flying directly from Mereen to King's Landing. They would expend very little energy staying high for the duration of a direct flight.

However, I don't think they will need to.

My guess is that rather than approach from the sea, they're going to approach by land - specifically, Dorne. That's why they were amenable to that alliance. My guess is they will go Mereen -> Volantis -> Lys -> Sunspear -> Vulture's Roost or thereabouts, and then march from there.

So, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen dragon?

Anyone else think there should be a #killcersei running on twitter?

She killed many good people, and she got away with it practically.

I personally cannot wait for Cersei to get her just reward. IE getting killed by jamie or Tyrion or even bran!

Bran wargs into the mountain, kills her. And then everyone around westeros celebrates.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Necros wrote:
So, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen dragon?

2 coconuts I believe.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Anyone else think there should be a #killcersei running on twitter?

She killed many good people, and she got away with it practically.

I personally cannot wait for Cersei to get her just reward. IE getting killed by jamie or Tyrion or even bran!

Ahem.

Bran wargs into the mountain, kills her. And then everyone around westeros celebrates.

I think Warging into what is effectively a zombie might send Bran insane.

From EW:

The Thrones showrunners’ plan of having just two more shortened seasons after this year now makes more sense. With Dany coming to Westeros, we’re really and truly heading into the final chapters of this tale. Along with the demise of the show’s greatest villain, Ramsay Bolton, the events of this season set up two great battles — one is between the living and the dead, and the other is where the stars of the show, the lead characters we have followed for so long, begin to take aim at each other…

Season 8...confirmed?

Also, where the hell was Ghost?!?

 Ouze wrote:


I was just looking at this. Obviously it's a show, and if the plot says they can, then they can... arguing about the physical limitations of a mythical creature is a little dumb. But fun, so let's do it anyway!


By my rough guess, flying from Mereen to King's landing is about the same as flying from Chile to Los Angeles, about 5,000 miles. That seems pretty far too me, "Narrow Sea" or not.

Lets look at birds. The Wandering Albatross has been shown to be able to fly easily twice that - 10,000 miles. It does so by performing an aerodynamic maneuver, rather than "flying" the way we think of it. It can do so efficiently because it has a very large wingspan, almost 12 feet.

Dragons being much larger, they would have no issues doing the exact same thing except my guess would be that dragons are reptiles and so also need to eat much less often than birds do... not that that would be a problem even for birds, since some birds can stay in the air for over 6 months straight.

So my thoughts are that the dragons would have no problem physically flying directly from Mereen to King's Landing. They would expend very little energy staying high for the duration of a direct flight.

However, I don't think they will need to.

My guess is that rather than approach from the sea, they're going to approach by land - specifically, Dorne. That's why they were amenable to that alliance. My guess is they will go Mereen -> Volantis -> Lys -> Sunspear -> Vulture's Roost or thereabouts, and then march from there.

I agree. It definitely makes more sense for the Dothraki to get ferried from the disputed lands to Dorne and go by land from there than to tie up an enormous number of ships to transport a giant horse herd across a wider part of the Narrow Sea. I think after the Dothraki and some/all of the Unsullied are in Dorne with Daenerys and the dragons the Ironborn fleet under Yara and Theon will go raiding in the stormlands (to punish House Baratheon) or attack Kings Landing directly.

I think House Baratheon has been sufficiency punished already...

I'm betting that Varys has already told Danny that job's been done!

 Alpharius wrote:
I think House Baratheon has been sufficiency punished already...

I'm betting that Varys has already told Danny that job's been done!

I dunno, those Targaryens can have quite a temper, Dany might want some extra suffering dished out.

 Alpharius wrote:
From EW:

The Thrones showrunners’ plan of having just two more shortened seasons after this year now makes more sense. With Dany coming to Westeros, we’re really and truly heading into the final chapters of this tale. Along with the demise of the show’s greatest villain, Ramsay Bolton, the events of this season set up two great battles — one is between the living and the dead, and the other is where the stars of the show, the lead characters we have followed for so long, begin to take aim at each other…

Season 8...confirmed?

Also, where the hell was Ghost?!?

That would be cool.

Dany vs Jon. Jon kicks her arse and the kingdoms move on with no king anymore, as Jon doesn't want to be king.

I think he will go south on vacation and advocate the throne to Dany. As he probably doesn't want anymore blood, but Dany wants him to continue the Targ line probably. As she can no longer bare children. So effectively she wants to find an heir to her if she expires. It would make sense.

I think house baratheon needs Gendry to revitalize them. It would be cool if the Sand Snakes or the Tyrells had kept Gendry a secret or something but I am only wishing here.

 Asherian Command wrote:
As she can no longer bare children. So effectively she wants to find an heir to her if she expires. It would make sense.

To be more technical...

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east..."

Like, perhaps, a sufficiently large fireball from 3 dragons, or some wildfire explosions, say...

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I think House Baratheon has been sufficiency punished already...

I'm betting that Varys has already told Danny that job's been done!

I dunno, those Targaryens can have quite a temper, Dany might want some extra suffering dished out.

What baratheons there is only one left an innocent boy, wh has been hunted. Dany would be like "Oh look at that a boy who started from nothing, exactly like me."

She would probably want to talk to him and allow him to get honor, and name him as Gendry Baratheon, she would essentially break the wheel, and also allow a bastard to ascend the noble house. Would be pretty interesting, because honestly there are no STormland lords in support of Cersei Lannister.