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Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Raleigh, NC

I think there have been a lot of good ideas on improving the game reception have already by other users like Bob, Azazlex, et. al.. As such, I'd like to just put forward ideas for future releases that can be taken or not, hopefully some of them might be beneficial for future planning:

1) I think the Epicarians are ripe for receiving exo-suits. Something perhaps similar to Edge of Tomorrow



I think it would mesh really well with their concept, make the individual soldiers more intimidating, and frankly there aren't enough exo-suit models on the market (it feels rather untapped).

2) Unique aliens races. 40k is good with having a diverse range of armies to choose from, but most of it is fantasy-in-space rather than actual unique alien concepts. Tyranids (derivative of the alien from Aliens) and Tau (derivative of anime to a degree) are really the only unique alien concepts that have been explored significantly. I feel that most other sci-fi games haven't covered this area much, and usually we've just ended up with humanoids with different color skin and flaps on their face.

Developing some unique alien races would be a huge boon IMO for this game and draw in (again) a rather untapped market.

3) In regards to (2), I'd like to see the Angels as their own unique faction rather than just the pets of the Karists. Something of an uncontrollable force, attacking the galaxy as they too flee from the Maelstrom. What I envision is something that is more "alien" than the Tyranids in 40k, and are very much focused on close combat tactics (as opposed to Tyranids which are just shooting everything these days).

4) More female characters. I feel a good way to do this would be through the Dark Eldar concept 40k, where female soldiers are mixed in with regular grunts intermittently. That way people who want the extremes (i.e. all-female or all-male) could simply do extra purchasing to get what they want. Kickstarters for things like Raging Heroes shows that there is a significant fan base out there for just female models, so I think having the ability to purchase sprues of female models (perhaps sold in squad boxes with male soldiers?) would be great.

5) More zealous Karists. I think people really enjoy the extremes nature of most table-top games, often the more bizarre or crazy, the better. I'd like to see Karists more as a sort of inverse-zealot from 40k in that they use the energy of the universe, and destroy those who oppose its use. I do feel like this is covered to a degree already, but I think it would be good to have Karists appear more extreme in their appearance, with sigils, damaged armor, etc, etc.

6) Additional factions. I realize this is part of the plan, but the sooner you can have a range of army options available to customers, the better. Personally, this is where I feel 40k excels so well at drawing in customers (beyond having Space Marines). People who don't like Karists or Epicarians, but want to support the game for its good rules and evolving nature, would be ripe for future purchases with this.

Those are the big ideas I have at the moment. Like I said, I do hope something in here can be useful for future projects, because I would very much like to see this game succeed. Thanks!

   
Made in gb
Hulking Hunter-class Warmech





Bristol, England

 Accolade wrote:
I think there have been a lot of good ideas on improving the game reception have already by other users like Bob, Azazlex, et. al.. As such, I'd like to just put forward ideas for future releases that can be taken or not, hopefully some of them might be beneficial for future planning:

1) I think the Epicarians are ripe for receiving exo-suits. Something perhaps similar to Edge of Tomorrow



I think it would mesh really well with their concept, make the individual soldiers more intimidating, and frankly there aren't enough exo-suit models on the market (it feels rather untapped).

2) Unique aliens races. 40k is good with having a diverse range of armies to choose from, but most of it is fantasy-in-space rather than actual unique alien concepts. Tyranids (derivative of the alien from Aliens) and Tau (derivative of anime to a degree) are really the only unique alien concepts that have been explored significantly. I feel that most other sci-fi games haven't covered this area much, and usually we've just ended up with humanoids with different color skin and flaps on their face.

Developing some unique alien races would be a huge boon IMO for this game and draw in (again) a rather untapped market.

3) In regards to (2), I'd like to see the Angels as their own unique faction rather than just the pets of the Karists. Something of an uncontrollable force, attacking the galaxy as they too flee from the Maelstrom. What I envision is something that is more "alien" than the Tyranids in 40k, and are very much focused on close combat tactics (as opposed to Tyranids which are just shooting everything these days).

4) More female characters. I feel a good way to do this would be through the Dark Eldar concept 40k, where female soldiers are mixed in with regular grunts intermittently. That way people who want the extremes (i.e. all-female or all-male) could simply do extra purchasing to get what they want. Kickstarters for things like Raging Heroes shows that there is a significant fan base out there for just female models, so I think having the ability to purchase sprues of female models (perhaps sold in squad boxes with male soldiers?) would be great.

5) More zealous Karists. I think people really enjoy the extremes nature of most table-top games, often the more bizarre or crazy, the better. I'd like to see Karists more as a sort of inverse-zealot from 40k in that they use the energy of the universe, and destroy those who oppose its use. I do feel like this is covered to a degree already, but I think it would be good to have Karists appear more extreme in their appearance, with sigils, damaged armor, etc, etc.

6) Additional factions. I realize this is part of the plan, but the sooner you can have a range of army options available to customers, the better. Personally, this is where I feel 40k excels so well at drawing in customers (beyond having Space Marines). People who don't like Karists or Epicarians, but want to support the game for its good rules and evolving nature, would be ripe for future purchases with this.

Those are the big ideas I have at the moment. Like I said, I do hope something in here can be useful for future projects, because I would very much like to see this game succeed. Thanks!



This is literally like you've been reading our future plans.

Read the first two novels in the Maelstrom's Edge Universe now:

Maelstrom's Edge: Faith - read a sample here!

and

Maelstrom's Edge: Sacrifice 
   
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Made in gb
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Poor form on the in-thread adverts.

We're here every day, we know all about it!

Member of the "Awesome Wargaming Dudes"

 
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

Mymearan wrote:
As an answer to bob's post, for me it's all about the miniature design. There has been a lot (too much imo) of talk about how technically complex the sprues are, and how well the minis go together... and honestly I don't care. First and foremost I want the miniatures to look amazing, no matter how they are produced. And they don't. I get a 90s feel from most of the ME minis, in terms of design sensibilities, sculpt detail, posing etc. The golden standard for me when it comes to plastic is stuff like GW or Kingdom Death, and ME isn't even close to being in the same ballpark as those. It's a whole different league, no matter how many sliding moulds have been used. The rules sound very cool, the fluff interesting, but none of that matters if I don't like the models. That's the sad truth of it in my case.

I also agree that the KS has been underwhelming in terms of reveals and future possibilities for the game. It's so pragmatic that it's almost like your parents telling you "you can't do that, that's not how things work, temper your expectations, be realistic" etc etc. It's extremely well-managed, to the point of being dull.


Good ad campaigns are as much about art as science, IMO. The effort has been very honest and workmanlike, but the campaign didn't tease, titillate, and generate positive emotional responses (and therefore buying decisions) the way you'd like to see.

And I think that magnifies the fact (for me, at least) that the game lacks a "hook."

From the beginning, I've gotten the sense that the team tried to position the rules as a differentiator. But that's a *really* hard sell to make, especially with a KS. Games have to be played to be compelling from a gameplay standpoint. You can even post the rules online -- and it might be a GREAT ruleset -- but in a vacuum you'll probably get a lot of nitpicking in response.

Setting/IP generally has a better chance to be compelling to a wider audience. But it was always going to be hard for the ME setting to be that, just because it's sci-fi. Sci-fi is a crowded space, filled with superheavyweight and heavyweight IPs like Star Wars and 40K. That's an uphill battle, unless you have some REALLY unique angle...which I don't see here, unfortunately.

So yes, I agree...in the end miniatures are what were going to make or break this KS, and unfortunately they came in mixed. I like certain miniatures, but honestly, the terrain sprues were the most interesting item to me just because they're useable with other game systems. In retrospect, they might have been better served to lead off with the bigger winners in the mini range to build more positive energy from the start. Again, they seemed content to grind it out rather than blow it out, and I'm not sure why. *shrug*

 monders wrote:
Poor form on the in-thread adverts.

We're here every day, we know all about it!


I agree that it's virtually impossible for active Dakkaites to be unaware of the KS at this point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 19:45:04


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SoCal

 insaniak wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:
 insaniak wrote:

This, to be honest, is where a lot of the perceived problem is coming from. There's this small group of people who dislike aspects of the project who seem to take any disagreement with their opinion as censure, dismissal, or the work of paid shills, rather than as simply the presentation of a differing opinion.


I don't think that this is the problem. A few "malcontents" in the ME threads can't be blamed for the project being at $41k with only 6 days to go, which can't be what was envisioned by the creators. There are clearly some reasons why this project hasn't set the world on fire..

That wasn't the 'problem' I was referring to. That comment was in reference to the alleged 'dismissive' attitude from SAS.


The dismissive attitude comes from the way SAS replies. It's telling that one Mod thought that SAS responding to criticism was answer enough even though the content of SAS's replies is what people find dismissive.

Yes, the molds have been tooled. However, pointing that out is not the same as acknowledging mistakes and giving backers an idea that you know how to correct those mistakes for the next generation of products. We want to know that the next wave will be worth sticking around for. How can we be confident in a company that repeatedly points to a small number of hardcore fans who love everything and says, "Some people love them. There is no problem" while ignoring the ominous dissatisfaction? Legoburner's responses are full of confidence that some of us feel borders on self-delusion because it seems to be based on numbers that only he can see. It seems we need to pierce that bubble to let SAS know that they need to up their game with the next release.

We are not harping on these flaws again and again to be mean but because we don't feel like like the creative team is taking the criticism to heart. How can they improve a game if they only listen to the viewpoints they want to hear? They ignore the few precious customers who give feedback on why they aren't buying Medge just because they think those customers represent a minority instead of the vast majority of the people who didn't back the project and who don't care enough to comment.


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Let me ask you straight-up, completely honestly: do you really not see the quality difference between the contractor sculpts and all the other sculpts? Are you really not sure why those minis are drawing so much criticism?

I suspect that, given that they've been fairly active in the threads, SAS are quite aware of why those minis are drawing criticism. But that criticism has been far from universal, and the contractors are in equal 3rd place with the scarecrow in the 'extra sprue' poll on the Kickstarter.


You've got to be kidding me. No model is going to draw universal criticism. As I said, even old Nagash had his devotees. But where there's smoke there's fire, and the Epirians have orders of magnitude more smoke than the bots or Karists.






Keep in mind that most backers are psychologically primed to see campaigns as products in the works rather than fait accompli.

I don't think that's entirely true. I've seen any number of miniatures-related projects on Kickstarter that have had finished miniatures just waiting to be cast, that have managed to go through the process without complaints from backers about being 'left out' of the design process. For some reason, some people have just taken it amiss in this particular case...


Did those campaigns have any failure miniatures? What did the backers say about those?

You misunderstand "that mini won't sell and here's why. Please don't screw up the next mini." for "I want the mini done my way or not at all."

   
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Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 monders wrote:
Poor form on the in-thread adverts.

We're here every day, we know all about it!


Lego posted in the other thread that if you click on the hidden "x" in the top left corner of the TOP banner, it hides the huge pics on both the top and bottom. I appreciate him having an opt out for them.
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 insaniak wrote:
 zedmeister wrote:
... and perhaps attempts to post threads elsewhere would have been locked or moved..

The existence of this thread we're in right now suggests otherwise...

I'm curious as to what you mean by 'sanitised' though... other than a few coments to stop the thread veering away from discussion of the kickstarter, what were you seeing in the kickstarter thread that gave you that perception?


Here's a perfect example. This post and the few preceding it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1980/644194.page#7856059

That would be (and is) completely normal discussion in any other KS thread. In the ME thread, however...

   
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 19:49:19


Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Tibbsy wrote:
 insaniak wrote:


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Let me ask you straight-up, completely honestly: do you really not see the quality difference between the contractor sculpts and all the other sculpts? Are you really not sure why those minis are drawing so much criticism?

I suspect that, given that they've been fairly active in the threads, SAS are quite aware of why those minis are drawing criticism. But that criticism has been far from universal, and the contractors are in equal 3rd place with the scarecrow in the 'extra sprue' poll on the Kickstarter.



Exactly.

Although Bob has been quite vocal in his dislike of the Epirians, I personally love them and they're some of my favourite models from the box; and I seem to recall Bob saying that he loved the Angel when that was revealed, whereas I was the opposite and it's only the recent conversions that have made me like it.



Listen. I don't hate the Epirians. I don't much dislike the Epirians. I acknowledge that they have flaws and I recognize that these flaws have harmed the campaign's image and turned potential backers away. I also recognize that the angel has flaws that have greatly diminished the model's impact.

There's a difference that is crucial for a product's success. If the CEO of Pepsico loved Crystal Pepsi, should he have focused more on trumping up likeminded focus groups instead of dropping an unprofitable line?

Keep in mind that I am a modeller and converter, so I liked seeing the potential in all these minis. I had to take myself to another viewpoint entirely before I could understand why so many people didn't like the minis. Now, I see their concerns and realize most people don't evaluate new minis the same way I do, but rather along much more harsh criteria. Passing on their concerns and reasoning is an attempt to engender a similar viewpoint shift for the creative team, especially whoever signed off on the tootling in the first place. The next wave of minis needs some fresh eyes to check them out before they tool the mold.





My point is not just that Bob and myself seem to be exact opposites, but that although I have some criticisms for all of the sculpts (nothing can be perfect after all) I don't see any real difference in quality between the Epirians and the other models in the box. I can see different aesthetic choices, which it seems are not to everyone's taste- the contractors do seem to be a bit of a marmite model; but no drop in the quality of the sculpts.


This is bordering on idealism. Nothing can be perfect. Everything is subjective. Nothing is more important than anything else. Bull.

This is a product designed to make money. If 90% of the critics level criticism at one miniature, there is a problem with that miniature as a product.

More importantly, there is an objective reason for this. Alex Holker pointed it out pages ago. SAS brushed it off with talk about proportions and heroic scale, but it came across as if they missed his point. The Epirians are not in Heroic Scale at all. They are in no scale that works.

When you look at a stylized cartoon, say the new Justice League with their exaggerated proportions, you don't see something off and disquieting. The Uncanny Valley may have been debunked as a legitimate psychological phenomenon, but the term exiswts and finds use because it is a very useful descriptor that says "something's off about that guy" and the Epirians fit in the uncanny valley. Here's why: even silly overexaggerated cartoons keep some proportions accurate, sucah as the ratio of the upper arm to the forearm, the ratio of the neck to the head, the length of the arms in comparison to the upper torso, the proportion of the shins to the thighs, and so on. On the Epirian contractor, some of these proportions are off. When an observer's mind corrects for the Heroic Scale, he will still find that the mini doesn't look right. Alex Holker made some great sketches that demonstrated this point beautifully.

We're not talking about design aesthetics but rather sculpting execution. The design looks great in the sketches, and the majority of it survives intact into the miniatures. Their human anatomy is all borked up, however, and that puts some people off. Quite a lot of people, potentially.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
 insaniak wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 cincydooley wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


There is also the underlying fear that a poster will accidentally offend someone of prestige on the site, whether they are afraid of retaliation or just don't want to hurt someone's feelings, which stifles more comments than any active moderation ever could.
.


That's a really interesting comment. Hadn't considered it before, but it's pretty interesting.

This one's been niggling at me, so I figured it was worth addressing.... Ultimately, a desire to not cause offense should temper a poster's response to any project, not just this one.

So long as feedback is politely delivered, that will rarely be a problem.


Uh. Are you doing that deliberately?

Is anyone else hearing a German accent when they read that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 19:53:20


   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 warboss wrote:
 monders wrote:
Poor form on the in-thread adverts.

We're here every day, we know all about it!


Lego posted in the other thread that if you click on the hidden "x" in the top left corner of the TOP banner, it hides the huge pics on both the top and bottom. I appreciate him having an opt out for them.


There's still a quite large text ad at the bottom of the page that you have to jump over in order to get to the "quick reply". It's rather intrusive. I wonder if these ads are pissing people off the project? A hidden X isn't especially ingratiating for people who don't know it's there, after all...

   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 Azazelx wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 monders wrote:
Poor form on the in-thread adverts.

We're here every day, we know all about it!


Lego posted in the other thread that if you click on the hidden "x" in the top left corner of the TOP banner, it hides the huge pics on both the top and bottom. I appreciate him having an opt out for them.


There's still a quite large text ad at the bottom of the page that you have to jump over in order to get to the "quick reply". It's rather intrusive. I wonder if these ads are pissing people off the project? A hidden X isn't especially ingratiating for people who don't know it's there, after all...


I know.. which is why I said it hides the pics (and not the whole ad). In any case, I don't have an issue with the ads for a limited time as I acknowledge that they could have been doing them the entire month. Now, whether that would have the intended effect or the opposite as you hint at is another story but I appreciate the opt out for the most distracting part (the pics). As a non-DCM who has used the site extensively for years, this is not a fight that I'd ever choose to pick.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 20:01:02


 
   
Made in us
Phanobi





Paso Robles, CA, USA

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Ozymandias wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
There's no big conspiracy here, unless everyone who went to Salute was in on it...



And I wasn't talking about Salute. I was referring to American players who saw the models among their gaming group. In America. Oh, wait, sarcastic ellipses are need...



Are you still harping on this? It's really not a big conspiracy! One of the guys in our game group did some work for Maelstrom's Edge and got several of the sprues in advance. He wasn't able to show us until they had already been revealed (due to NDA's) and he brought them to one of the gaming nights to show people. There were already four backers of the KS at this point and he wanted to show us what we were backing. I'm sorry you weren't invited, if you want to come visit the central coast of California, I'm sure we can arrange you seeing the sprues yourself.


Near Santa Cruz? I may take you up on that in a few weeks.


Couple hours south, I'm in Paso Robles and our group meets in San Luis Obispo. Come join the shill team!

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings.
Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.

Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.

This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.

A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy 
   
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Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 insaniak wrote:
 zedmeister wrote:
... and perhaps attempts to post threads elsewhere would have been locked or moved..

The existence of this thread we're in right now suggests otherwise...


You know why this thread exists? Because several people told me they weren't willing to create a criticism thread even after the mods put forward the idea in the main thread. They were uncomfortable. Many of them felt that they had been shut down in the main thread. No one else was stepping up and the mood in the main thread was becoming oppressive. So, I made this thread. I damn well didn't want to. I'm more comfortable bantering on the side than shouldering the direct gaze of the community. But it needed to be done as a pressure valve. Unfortunately, I think I was too late since the perception has lingered that the other thread is not a safe place for some posters.

When I made this thread, I was operating under the assumption that Medge would be a huge success and could stand a little light-hearted ribbing and even some venting (in this, safe, thread). Then the campaign choked and the Mods and their supporters became defensive in this thread, which is fair and expected, but it made the mood much more confrontational. The kinds of responses the SAS team gave varied from amazing to "are they serious?". So naturally, backers with a point to make tried to make it again, harder. And now nobody is having fun here and both sides feel like they need to save Medge from the other.




I'm curious as to what you mean by 'sanitised' though... other than a few coments to stop the thread veering away from discussion of the kickstarter, what were you seeing in the kickstarter thread that gave you that perception?


I think at this point you're just going to have to take other people's words for it. I get the impression that green would look like red if I showed it to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 warboss wrote:


Those are two very good reasons and you're not the only one who had both cross his mind as reasons to not comment as frequently or as bluntly as normal. Regardless of the good faith and/or well intentions behind the posting, it is literally impossible to give constructive criticism on the campaign as previewed simply because it is so far along and those changes simply can't be made without incurring significant cost that will apparently not be absorbed by the current pledge total of the KS. At best, it can help inform/sway future decisions but the stuff shown is too far down the pipeline but it can't by its very nature be constructive for the exact subject of the criticism.. and I'm sure that doesn't have a positive effect on how that criticism is received either.


This right here.

That's the reason I would like to frame the discussion towards the eventual retail release. I would like to see a lot of ideas for positive things that SAS can do to help them out. "Make better minis" has its place, but maybe we can find a way to improve the reception the existing minis receive.

When the ME forum opens, I plan to start threads asking for what people want to see in the packaging for the unit boxes or supplements. What kinds of events or stories would people like to see in the Medge universe. What sales tactics have been successful for getting you into new games, or even to take a second look.

Unfortunately you have to learn from the past to improve the future, so we're still going to have to thrash out the positives and the negatives of the kickstarter campaign. Might get ugly.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 darrkespur wrote:
 Accolade wrote:
I think there have been a lot of good ideas on improving the game reception have already by other users like Bob, Azazlex, et. al.. As such, I'd like to just put forward ideas for future releases that can be taken or not, hopefully some of them might be beneficial for future planning:



This is literally like you've been reading our future plans.


That makes me happy because those were some very good ideas. The exo suit for the Epirians is particularly brilliant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 monders wrote:
Poor form on the in-thread adverts.

We're here every day, we know all about it!


Now I know how all those ladies at the club felt when I approached them.

"Coming on just a bit strong."

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/05/29 20:20:22


   
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Leerstetten, Germany

 insaniak wrote:
 Quintinus wrote:
As a new user to Dakka, this thread is really putting me off of the community which I'd heard a lot of great things about. In just this very thread, we have normal users who are critiquing something and then every single rebuttal comes from someone with the [MOD] tag. Just on this very page, there are 3 mods!

You'll get that quite a bit on Dakka, as most of the mods are fairly active posters. So particularly when something crosses the interest radar of multiple mods, it's not at all unusual for a few mods to all be participating in the same discussion... and pretty much all of Dakka's mod team are interested in MEdge, so a lot of us have been discussing it.

Outside of actual moderation, the opinions of moderators shouldn't be treated any differently to any other poster... we're just hobbyists like everyone else. None of the mods are part of the SAS design team, or speak in any official capacity for them.


A bit late, but to back this up: during my many years here I have found the [MOD] tag to be mostly irrelevant when it comes to day-to-day interactions with other users. 99% of the time, unless the [MOD] tag is accompanied by red text in the post it is just another regular user speaking and nobody should feel like they have to walk on their tip-toes when talking to them.
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

The use of red text is an informal convention Moderators have adopted to show when they are speaking "ex cathedra" as it were.

It has never been held that Moderators should not comment normally in threads and in general participate as ordinary members of the site. In fact, one of the criteria for being selected as a Moderator is to participate enthusiastically in discussion.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 monders wrote:
Poor form on the in-thread adverts.

We're here every day, we know all about it!


Now I know how all those ladies at the club felt when I approached them.

"Coming on just a bit strong."


I don't think that regular fourm members are their target audience, more likey the large amount of 'guests' visiting specific threads from using search engines.


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Made in au
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Melbourne .au

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

There is also the underlying fear that a poster will accidentally offend someone of prestige on the site, whether they are afraid of retaliation or just don't want to hurt someone's feelings, which stifles more comments than any active moderation ever could.


That's a really interesting comment. Hadn't considered it before, but it's pretty interesting.

This one's been niggling at me, so I figured it was worth addressing.... Ultimately, a desire to not cause offense should temper a poster's response to any project, not just this one.
So long as feedback is politely delivered, that will rarely be a problem.


Uh. Are you doing that deliberately?
Is anyone else hearing a German accent when they read that?


I am now.



This of course being a deliberate and specific example of the sort of joking and discussion that goes on in every other KS thread, that has been disallowed in the ME thread. That's why people are nervous about posting. That's why the thread "feels" different. Because it is. It's not "fun". Over-zealous moderation has resulted in all of the usual light-hearted joking and "fun" having been purged. If a thread is restricted to SRS BZNS, it results in the feel of the thread changing, with "I love it" becoming the main "safe" status of posters. This also results in a negative "feel" for the thread. Not a fun feel. That's not a good way to engage with people emotionally - and you want to engage with people's emotions in a positive way to make them feel positively towards a campaign asking for $100 or so of their money or to consider the game later on.

One of these threads is not like the others.

Before the inevitable post telling me that I'm wrong. How many people have noted in this, slightly safer-feeling thread that they feel nervous, or uncomfortable posting this or that? How often do you see that in any other KS thread? Most KS campaigns don't usually have a separate thread for discussion that might be considered tangental to the main business of the KS, do they? I can't think of any. We didn't get told to please take this discussion elsewhere and bugger off to the Mantic subforum when discussing "things wrong with Orx" in the DeadZone 2 KS thread. Yet, every time I post even in this thread, I do have an expectation that I might get a 3-day holiday for saying unpopular things that might offend the people who run this site or are heavily invested in the game (ie Insaniak). That's the truth of it, too. I don't feel the same way when saying far harsher, far more blunt things in other KS threads, nor do I feel that when I joke around, or post a pic in other Kickstarter threads that it will be declared verboten and moderated.


I couldn't find the "delicious" lips gif, so this one has to do.

   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps






 Azazelx wrote:


I couldn't find the "delicious" lips gif, so this one has to do.


BrookM will be along shortly...
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Azazelx wrote:
Here's a perfect example. This post and the few preceding it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1980/644194.page#7856059

That would be (and is) completely normal discussion in any other KS thread. In the ME thread, however...

It would have been off-topic in any other thread as well, for exactly the reason stated.

A certain amount of off-topic chatter is generally tolerated, but if it looks like it's going to divert the thread from the actual discussion, it's better to take it elsewhere. My request to do that in this case wasn't an attempt to stifle discussion (or I would have just said to stop it, rather than to take it elsewhere) but simply to move it somewhere it could continue without muddying the Kickstarter thread.


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 insaniak wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:
Here's a perfect example. This post and the few preceding it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1980/644194.page#7856059

That would be (and is) completely normal discussion in any other KS thread. In the ME thread, however...

It would have been off-topic in any other thread as well, for exactly the reason stated.

A certain amount of off-topic chatter is generally tolerated, but if it looks like it's going to divert the thread from the actual discussion, it's better to take it elsewhere. My request to do that in this case wasn't an attempt to stifle discussion (or I would have just said to stop it, rather than to take it elsewhere) but simply to move it somewhere it could continue without muddying the Kickstarter thread.



I don't believe it would have. We were never asked to take conversation about Shadokesh or Space Soviets out of the Dreamforge thread. We were never told to take wishlisting about Abyssals or nature elementals out of KoW threads. I don't mean the current threads, either, but back when those concepts were considered way off possibilities.

   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
We were never asked to take conversation about Shadokesh or Space Soviets out of the Dreamforge thread. We were never told to take wishlisting about Abyssals or nature elementals out of KoW threads. I don't mean the current threads, either, but back when those concepts were considered way off possibilities.

Possibly not. Having not really followed those threads, I couldn't say.

If that off-topic chatter started to take over the threads, though, you probably should have been.


Look, this isn't, and has never been, an attempt to stifle discussion. All that was asked is that the Kickstarter thread focus on the Kickstarter, with other discussion taking place in other threads. Is that really so unreasonable?

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

 insaniak wrote:
Look, this isn't, and has never been, an attempt to stifle discussion. All that was asked is that the Kickstarter thread focus on the Kickstarter, with other discussion taking place in other threads. Is that really so unreasonable?


It is unreasonable if it defies convention.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Why don't we all get back to the topic?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am beginning to regret having voted for the Angel as the bonus sprue in the starter set. I actually prefer the big robot but there were two of them already, but now it is going to be two Angels and two Hunters I kind of wish it was three Hunters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 21:22:45


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

Could we make a new thread to discuss the presentation of the Kickstarter and its resulting impression among the Dakka community? Or would that be considered against the rules?
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Why don't we all get back to the topic?



Well played.

(That is a joke, right? I can never read that guy.)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am beginning to regret having voted for the Angel as the bonus sprue in the starter set. I actually prefer the big robot but there were two of them already, but now it is going to be two Angels and two Hunters I kind of wish it was three Hunters.



I'm happy with two angels. I think they are more unique than a big robot. But, if these were sprues added to the retail box, I would agree that hunters are the way to go. They seem to be the most successful minis of the campaign.

Whatever "successful" means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Could we make a new thread to discuss the presentation of the Kickstarter and its resulting impression among the Dakka community? Or would that be considered against the rules?


Isn't that this thread? Pretty sure that was laid out in the OP. Either way, once the ME subforum opens up, it will be a lot easier to move into new threads.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 21:32:51


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Could we make a new thread to discuss the presentation of the Kickstarter and its resulting impression among the Dakka community? Or would that be considered against the rules?


Isn't that this thread? Pretty sure that was laid out in the OP. Either way, once the ME subforum opens up, it will be a lot easier to move into new threads.


I thought so, but then red text appeared after one of my posts so I'll go back to my conspiracy theories to avoid "derailing" this thread further.

Honestly, the whole ME thing is just bumming me out. I am going to give Dakka a vacation until the 4th when all this Kickstarter crap is over.

Have a good week folks!
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





UK

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Could we make a new thread to discuss the presentation of the Kickstarter and its resulting impression among the Dakka community? Or would that be considered against the rules?


Isn't that this thread? Pretty sure that was laid out in the OP. Either way, once the ME subforum opens up, it will be a lot easier to move into new threads.


I thought so, but then red text appeared after one of my posts so I'll go back to my conspiracy theories to avoid "derailing" this thread further.

Honestly, the whole ME thing is just bumming me out. I am going to give Dakka a vacation until the 4th when all this Kickstarter crap is over.

Have a good week folks!


I was actually tempted to delete my account altogether but I couldn't find the button.

We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Raleigh, NC

Nevermind

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/29 23:05:20


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

There are two threads so far:

1) The Kickstarter thread: where we talk about stuff going on directly to do with the kickstarter.
2) The fluff/background/wishlisting thread (aka: this thread): everything related to the game and universe itself.

This thread has now devolved into lots of off-topic talk that should be thread #3: "the mods are preventing me from saying anything bad about the game" and "thread #1 and thread #2 are moderated worse than all other threads".

That topic is OT in either thread since it doesn't have anything to do with the actual subjects in either thread. If people are scared of persecution I will gladly volunteer to throw up a "Are MODs agents of SAS? Click here and find out!" thread either in discussion or Nuts & Bolts (whichever would be more appropriate) so that nobody else has to worry about biting the bullet.
   
 
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