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nudibranch wrote:Just to point out, the grav cannons look to have grav-amps mounted underneath them, which is nice...

Nice catch! You are right, and that makes grav devastators possibly more useful. But they won't have Relentless (unless there is a way to give it to them), so I'm still not sure they'll be that useful. But hell, the model rocks. I don't see how I'm going to get out of buying at least 3 boxes of these :X I really want (new) lascannon, missile launcher, and grav in healthy numbers.

I am going to need to get two sets, that's all there is to it. Two Lascannon, two Missile Launcher, four Grav Cannon/Grav Amp. I already have two Lascannon and two Missile Launcher Devs built. This will give me three full squads of each. God Damn you, GW!

Watch, in spite of the buffs they are giving marines in terms of options, they will make the points costs prohibitive or the codex suck outright.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talys wrote:

nudibranch wrote:Just to point out, the grav cannons look to have grav-amps mounted underneath them, which is nice...

Nice catch! You are right, and that makes grav devastators possibly more useful. But they won't have Relentless (unless there is a way to give it to them), so I'm still not sure they'll be that useful. But hell, the model rocks. I don't see how I'm going to get out of buying at least 3 boxes of these :X I really want (new) lascannon, missile launcher, and grav in healthy numbers.

Grav Devs go in a pod.

 Talys wrote:

nudibranch wrote:Just to point out, the grav cannons look to have grav-amps mounted underneath them, which is nice...

Nice catch! You are right, and that makes grav devastators possibly more useful. But they won't have Relentless (unless there is a way to give it to them), so I'm still not sure they'll be that useful. But hell, the model rocks. I don't see how I'm going to get out of buying at least 3 boxes of these :X I really want (new) lascannon, missile launcher, and grav in healthy numbers.

They do not have relentless but remember grav cannon is salvo 3/5. Even on the move, 4 devs fire 12 shots compared to the 15 of the cents (at half range of course but "enter drop pod" )
And then next phase activate UM devastator doctrine

General Hobbs wrote:


Wait, you get ratings for exalting??? where is this?

The highest count posters for the year were mentioned at the end of 2014. Unfortunately, you cannot see your own count (or other's).

I like the new devastator kit. Brings me back to the days of the old pewter devastators with the cog look on their ankles.

Well, the Dev kit looks much more like it. Are those strange legs supposed to do something ruleswise or did Gee-dubs just decide to actually make the models look a bit nicer?

Now, the same treatment for havocs and I might actually buy something from GW directly for the first time...
...
Ah, who'm I kidding? When I get the backlog done and get a box of havocs, I'll be able to get any new sculpts from ebay again

 Kosake wrote:
Well, the Dev kit looks much more like it. Are those strange legs supposed to do something ruleswise or did Gee-dubs just decide to actually make the models look a bit nicer?

Now, the same treatment for havocs and I might actually buy something from GW directly for the first time...
...
Ah, who'm I kidding? When I get the backlog done and get a box of havocs, I'll be able to get any new sculpts from ebay again

Considering what we're seeing Loyalists get, I'm feeling pretty confident that Chaos Marines will get a half-baked codex that still gives us no new weapon options, (even after 18 Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n years!), and our only model release will be a single clam pack Chaos Lord, because... "Reasons"

We all know that after Sisters, Chaos Marines are the most popular army for GW to continually shaft!

We really need that stickied chaos whining thread...

Wait, 36 euro for 5? Assault Marines are 33 euro which translated to $70AUD over here (SHOULD only be about $50AUD). That means Devastators are going to be closer to $80AUD?

Whoever runs GW's pricing seriously needs to put down the crack pipe.

I was only kidding when I said GW were trying to make the same revenue out of a smaller customer base until there's 1 dude paying $500k per kit... I WAS ONLY KIDDING!!!

And here we go again...

It only remains for me to add this quote by a natfka commenter:

As for the cost of this new kit. It's £25... Wow... £5 more than the current kit and for that extra £5 you are getting:

-new re-cut models with better dynamic posing
-optional scenic bases
-new 32 mm bases included
-new weapons included (TH, LC, Grav Pistol, Evicerator, etc)
-all together a better kit.

Buy it from a store that offers a 20% discount if your that bothered. Same goes for the Dev kit.

Don't get me wrong. I would love GW stuff to be more affordable. But if you think it's to expensive: don't buy it.

 Timotheus wrote:
And here we go again...

It only remains for me to add this quote by a natfka commenter:

As for the cost of this new kit. It's £25... Wow... £5 more than the current kit and for that extra £5 you are getting:

-new re-cut models with better dynamic posing
-optional scenic bases
-new 32 mm bases included
-new weapons included (TH, LC, Grav Pistol, Evicerator, etc)
-all together a better kit.

Buy it from a store that offers a 20% discount if your that bothered. Same goes for the Dev kit.

Don't get me wrong. I would love GW stuff to be more affordable. But if you think it's to expensive: don't buy it.

Do keep in mind that a lot of the people complaining are from Australia and New Zealand... They are almost £40 in NZD!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Wait, 36 euro for 5? Assault Marines are 33 euro which translated to $70AUD over here (SHOULD only be about $50AUD). That means Devastators are going to be closer to $80AUD?

Whoever runs GW's pricing seriously needs to put down the crack pipe.

I was only kidding when I said GW were trying to make the same revenue out of a smaller customer base until there's 1 dude paying $500k per kit... I WAS ONLY KIDDING!!!

No no no, Skink... 33 -> 36 euro would make it.. $70 AUD to $120 AUD. Supah Maths! I have no idea how all the pricing is figured out. Between US, UK, and Canada it seems pretty "okish". Since my store purchases models in USD (even though we are in Canada), I actually have the option of paying them in USD, at the USD prices (less discounts). Right now, it makes no difference. But last year, USD/CAD was at parity, and that made a huge difference.

 Timotheus wrote:
And here we go again...

It only remains for me to add this quote by a natfka commenter:

GW have been doing this for years. Making a kit have incrementally more components each time (though typically still not enough to make all possible options) and slightly more elaborate poses which would only cost them ever so slightly more money to produce and almost no more money to ship/stock/sell, but charge a decent chunk more money to the customer AND escalate the game so you need MORE of said models rather than less (it'd probably be fine if GW genuinely were selling collectors pieces instead of wargaming pieces, but you must be smoking the same crack pipe as GW marketing if you think more than a small fraction actually go to people who paint them up and lock them away on a display shelf).

The old Assault Marine kit was 3 sprues. The new kit is 2 sprues. The new one might be slightly larger for each sprue and less wasted space, but I'm guessing production costs are no higher if not smaller since they don't have to do as many castings now.

So assuming grav cannos stay salvo 3/5, you could get a respectable amount of dakka from a grav-dev squad in a drop pod for much cheaper than centurions. Assuming grav cannons are 20 points a pop, it's still wayyy cheaper than cents.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Timotheus wrote:
And here we go again...

It only remains for me to add this quote by a natfka commenter:

GW have been doing this for years. Making a kit have incrementally more components each time (though typically still not enough to make all possible options) and slightly more elaborate poses which would only cost them ever so slightly more money to produce and almost no more money to ship/stock/sell, but charge a decent chunk more money to the customer AND escalate the game so you need MORE of said models rather than less (it'd probably be fine if GW genuinely were selling collectors pieces instead of wargaming pieces, but you must be smoking the same crack pipe as GW marketing if you think more than a small fraction actually go to people who paint them up and lock them away on a display shelf).

The old Assault Marine kit was 3 sprues. The new kit is 2 sprues. The new one might be slightly larger for each sprue and less wasted space, but I'm guessing production costs are no higher if not smaller since they don't have to do as many castings now.

i'm not smoking any crack pipe, but i have been collecting Citadel minis for over 30 years, and have never been a gamer...
i have literally thousands of minis, from at least a dozen manufacturers, but none of them make me as happy to paint as Space Marines do...

i am stoked about these new Assault and Dev. kits, and couldn't care less about the price increase...
give me cool new sculpts, which these are, and i am happy...
the legs of both kits are awesome new additions, as well as all of the new weapons...
i am one happy collector this weekend, and look forward to buying these kits at a nice discount...

cheers
jah

 Colpicklejar wrote:
So assuming grav cannos stay salvo 3/5, you could get a respectable amount of dakka from a grav-dev squad in a drop pod for much cheaper than centurions. Assuming grav cannons are 20 points a pop, it's still wayyy cheaper than cents.

This is a big assumption, though. One or both could become Heavy Grav Cannon (like Cult Mechanicus) and be 4/6. Also, in a perfect world, you want mechanisms to keep the squad alive past the first round, and to move it around if necessary. I'm not saying that this isn't possible of course.

The beauty of an Invisible, Gating CentStar is that you're really hard to kill, can't be tarpitted, and can eliminate multiple targets every round. It forces the other player to go all nuts trying to kill your one squad that's ruining their day. Maybe we can do this with new Devs, too -- we shall see next week

 jah-joshua wrote:
i'm not smoking any crack pipe, but i have been collecting Citadel minis for over 30 years, and have never been a gamer...

I didn't say you were smoking a crack pipe if you weren't a gamer, I said "if you think more than a small fraction actually go to people who paint them up and lock them away on a display shelf".

Also note that "a small fraction" does not mean "zero".

I'm fully aware there are a number of people who DO buy GW products just to paint and put on a display shelf... in which case the price increase isn't much of a problem. But I think it's a stretch to assume people such as that are more than a small percentage and definitely not a majority.

If GW lost their gaming crowd and were only left with the collectors, I think their revenue would be hit in the balls so hard that they'd probably have to close every one of their stores to avoid going bankrupt almost immediately and quite possibly cut their range and releases right back as well.

 jah-joshua wrote:
i'm not smoking any crack pipe, but i have been collecting Citadel minis for over 30 years, and have never been a gamer...
i have literally thousands of minis, from at least a dozen manufacturers, but none of them make me as happy to paint as Space Marines do...

Although I do play 40k a couple times a month, this is actually pretty much my thing. For whatever reason... it doesn't matter how cool any other model is, at the end of the day, I always return to modelling Space Marines as almost a hobby unto itself. For any other game or faction, I just don't get as excited. I don't understand it, really, but something as simple as a new shoulderpad that would look great with another shoulder pad that I already have makes me happy, lol.

 Colpicklejar wrote:
So assuming grav cannos stay salvo 3/5, you could get a respectable amount of dakka from a grav-dev squad in a drop pod for much cheaper than centurions. Assuming grav cannons are 20 points a pop, it's still wayyy cheaper than cents.

and yet represents very good balanced value. The cents have much more defensive potential with T5 and 2+ saves. They can move and shoot at full effectiveness. They have options to split fire and they have the hurricane bolter.

If you are going to take the pod, devs make a lot of sense, they will get one round of shooting 3 shots each. They will probably get shot down, but still provided excellent value.

I must say the heavy weapons team is a more impressive grouping than the assault marines. Lots to like there.

 Talys wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
i'm not smoking any crack pipe, but i have been collecting Citadel minis for over 30 years, and have never been a gamer...
i have literally thousands of minis, from at least a dozen manufacturers, but none of them make me as happy to paint as Space Marines do...

Although I do play 40k a couple times a month, this is actually pretty much my thing. For whatever reason... it doesn't matter how cool any other model is, at the end of the day, I always return to modelling Space Marines as almost a hobby unto itself. For any other game or faction, I just don't get as excited. I don't understand it, really, but something as simple as a new shoulderpad that would look great with another shoulder pad that I already have makes me happy, lol.

Actually it's just a matter of how many people are willing to pay the prices they are demanding. For me, GW did develope something far beyond average with 40k and Space Marines particularly and as long as they keep hammering out awesome new kits of that kind I'm willing to pay far beyond average for that, too. Additionally like I stated before with the quotation, these kits aren't bad deals after all (as long as you don't live in AUS or NZ). I wished they we're cheaper and I wished there were alternatives, but for me there are none. If you think the stuff is not worth it: don't buy it. If there are enough people who think like you, GW will get a problem and rethink.

 Kosake wrote:
WAre those strange legs supposed to do something ruleswise or did Gee-dubs just decide to actually make the models look a bit nicer?

It's a throwback to the second edition design... It never did anything different ruleswise, but IIRC fluffwise it was supposed to be some sort of bracing to help compensate for lugging the heavy weapon around.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I'm actually fairly impressed with that Devastator kit. Much more so than the AM one.

Gotto agree. They're sufficiently different from the previous Devs. Not worth AUD$70 by a longshot, but still at least they look like new models.

Where's the Multi-Melta though?

And what if new Dev's happen to be 'slow and purposeful'?

Supposed contents H.B.M.C.
Box contents confirmed on devastator:
2 lascannon, 2 plasmacannon, at least 1 grav (no exact number in WD), probably 2 heavy bolter (no numbers in WD), 2 multimelta, 1 kneeling leg part, 13 unique heads, power sword, combi-weapons for seargent

No mention of how many missile launchers.

For that price they're not even going to give you enough of one gun to outfit the squad?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
For that price they're not even going to give you enough of one gun to outfit the squad?

I don't think they're ever gonna do that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
For that price they're not even going to give you enough of one gun to outfit the squad?

they never have, why start now?

 Nicorex wrote:
Supposed contents H.B.M.C.
Box contents confirmed on devastator:
2 lascannon, 2 plasmacannon, at least 1 grav (no exact number in WD), probably 2 heavy bolter (no numbers in WD), 2 multimelta, 1 kneeling leg part, 13 unique heads, power sword, combi-weapons for seargent

No mention of how many missile launchers.

Again: as a german I can confirm you that the WD says that every heavy weapon is included two times!

Awesome news Timotheus. I did not see that before.
That's not that bad, 2 boxes gets you set for multiple squads with a single load out plus some extra heavy weapons for your Tac squads.

 Talys wrote:
For whatever reason... it doesn't matter how cool any other model is, at the end of the day, I always return to modelling Space Marines as almost a hobby unto itself. For any other game or faction, I just don't get as excited.

Probably because GW appears to put far, far more effort into Space Marines than any other faction. For my infantry I'm stuck with an ancient plastic kit with a deteriorating mould that has practically no options in comparison to the plethora of Marine kits that are packed full of them, all of which are also designed to be interchangeable at that. I'm extremely limited with the poses I can achieve with fire warriors whereas there are likely thousands of combinations for Marines, making it entirely possible to create an army where no two infantry are alike.