Worst Unit in Each Codex

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**bibotot**

For Dark Eldar, I would say the Wyches. No more Haywire on everybody. They don't suck like Storm Guardians and Mutilators. They are just not that good compared to the others. People would opt to use Kabalite Warriors as troops instead of these crazy bitches.

**TheSilo**

Rumbleguts wrote:
I think for tyranids is probably the malceptor, although the haruspex gives it a solid run for its money. I would say pyrovores but now that we have drop pods again, they can be useful.

Tyranids have a lot of units that could be tweaked to make more useful within the codex, but I really think wings for a hive tyrant needs a point increase, too huge an advantage for the cost. Makes taking anything other then a flyrant as a HQ almost shooting yourself in the foot, even in a fun game.

Don't have any ork players in our group, but I remember the fun of playing against orks in 2nd ed. I remember the general groans when the new codex came out. Makes me sad that one of the original, and most iconic, armies of 40k seems have had such a bad codex dumped on them.

Wings should work like jump-packs, not make them into FMCs.

**juraigamer**

Cirronimbus wrote:
For Tau I'd say the worst are probably Gun Drone squadrons or possibly Sniper Drone squadrons, although I don't think either are objectively bad units, just that they compete for slots against things that are better. Special characters are a bit lackluster as well but I didn't count them.

Clearly its vespids. They are excellent ap shots, but die to a stiff breeze. Gun drones die less than these guys.

**krodarklorr**

TheSilo wrote:
Rumbleguts wrote:
I think for tyranids is probably the malceptor, although the haruspex gives it a solid run for its money. I would say pyrovores but now that we have drop pods again, they can be useful.

Tyranids have a lot of units that could be tweaked to make more useful within the codex, but I really think wings for a hive tyrant needs a point increase, too huge an advantage for the cost. Makes taking anything other then a flyrant as a HQ almost shooting yourself in the foot, even in a fun game.

Don't have any ork players in our group, but I remember the fun of playing against orks in 2nd ed. I remember the general groans when the new codex came out. Makes me sad that one of the original, and most iconic, armies of 40k seems have had such a bad codex dumped on them.

Wings should work like jump-packs, not make them into FMCs.

I think the wings are as is. GW just needs to limit the number of CADs you can take to limit spamming, but yeah. I personally use a Tyranid Prime quite a lot, and I bring a Tervigon as a troops choice, so the other choices have merit.

**Kain**

TheSilo wrote:
Rumbleguts wrote:
I think for tyranids is probably the malceptor, although the haruspex gives it a solid run for its money. I would say pyrovores but now that we have drop pods again, they can be useful.

Tyranids have a lot of units that could be tweaked to make more useful within the codex, but I really think wings for a hive tyrant needs a point increase, too huge an advantage for the cost. Makes taking anything other then a flyrant as a HQ almost shooting yourself in the foot, even in a fun game.

Don't have any ork players in our group, but I remember the fun of playing against orks in 2nd ed. I remember the general groans when the new codex came out. Makes me sad that one of the original, and most iconic, armies of 40k seems have had such a bad codex dumped on them.

Wings should work like jump-packs, not make them into FMCs.

Without FMC spam, the Tyranid codex would become very, very weak.

Especially as Flyrants are one of our two only real sources of anti-air.

Also, why would a set of wings not let you fly?

**Ghazkuul**

Vankraken wrote:

I find it funny that most of the units on this list (meganobz, lootas, Tankbustas, battlewagons, sometimes flash Gitz) are my money units that do the heavy lifting for my army. Battlewagons in particular are the bread and butter means to get my army across the board and into the enemy's face. Sure deffrollas are 100% trash but they are still AV14 front transports which can hold 20 (12 with the underrated killkannon) and is an open topped assault vehicle (space marines wish they had such a cheap assault vehicle). Blitz Brigade is just nasty with 5 AV14 units with scout, frees up the heavy support slots to bring things like lootas (who are cheaper than before and pump out solid dakka). Flash Gitz are decent and work fairly well in battlewagon lists, sorta expensive but can put out face melting dakka when you make the AP roll (not going to see them in tournaments but better than some other stuff). Tankbustas are amazing and one of the gems of the Ork dex. Spammable assault weapon str 8 AP3 with Tank Hunter and melta bombs is hard to beat for the price. Put them in (you guessed it) battlewagons and they are hard to put down while eating MEQs and vehicles for breakfast. Meganobz in trukks are just nasty and force the enemy to deal with them or get charged turn 2. LoS blocking and terrain are your friend with them (keep them in reserves if your worried about an alpha strike taking them out).

The biggest problem with the Ork codex is mob rule not helping our poor leadership enough in non 30 boy blobs and the FOC being too restricting for what the Orks need to offset the short comings. (Orks with a decurion style detatchment would be a terror to play against, that's without any OP bonuses).

I just listed all the short comings of those units, if you want to take a Battle wagon formation your paying 550pts before you even put guns on the damned things and its 14/12/10 meaning they die easily enough. Put 20 boyz in each one with a nob pk and you got 1275pts with no ranged weapons of any kind beyond pistols. put some upgrades on those wagonz for gunz and you just maxed out a 1,500 list and you only have a couple rokkitz on each battle wagon

So yeah 100 boyz in 5 squads in scary, but unbound so.....

**vipoid**

Kain wrote:

Also, why would a set of wings not let you fly?

I don't know. Shall we ask Gargoyles and Shrieks?

**Kain**

vipoid wrote:
Kain wrote:

Also, why would a set of wings not let you fly?

I don't know. Shall we ask Gargoyles and Shrieks?

There aren't any rules for flying infantry.

But wings letting a tyrant fly is in line with harpies and crones.

It's also in line with daemon princes, lords of change, and bloodthirsters.

**TheSilo**

Kain wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Kain wrote:

Also, why would a set of wings not let you fly?

I don't know. Shall we ask Gargoyles and Shrieks?

There aren't any rules for flying infantry.

But wings letting a tyrant fly is in line with harpies and crones.

It's also in line with daemon princes, lords of change, and bloodthirsters.

Not to get completely off-topic, but I don't like the way flyers are integrated into the game at all. It's also bizarre that an FMC flying around at ~60-80 mph is as hard to hit as a plane zooming by much faster. I think the game is better served when planes and the like are abstract elements, i.e. you call in an air-strike on unit X, rather than you fly the plane in and play it like another model.

**Kain**

TheSilo wrote:
Kain wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Kain wrote:

Also, why would a set of wings not let you fly?

I don't know. Shall we ask Gargoyles and Shrieks?

There aren't any rules for flying infantry.

But wings letting a tyrant fly is in line with harpies and crones.

It's also in line with daemon princes, lords of change, and bloodthirsters.

Not to get completely off-topic, but I don't like the way flyers are integrated into the game at all. It's also bizarre that an FMC flying around at ~60-80 mph is as hard to hit as a plane zooming by much faster. I think the game is better served when planes and the like are abstract elements, i.e. you call in an air-strike on unit X, rather than you fly the plane in and play it like another model.

Harpies can fly in space and keep pace with Imperial star furies so I'm pretty sure FMCs can go much faster than anything operating under real world biologies ever could.

**vipoid**

Kain wrote:
[
There aren't any rules for flying infantry.

Exactly. It's almost as if wings don't require you to be constantly flying at the same height as a jet fighter.

Kain wrote:

Harpies can fly in space and keep pace with Imperial star furies so I'm pretty sure FMCs can go much faster than anything operating under real world biologies ever could.

Wait, what? How the hell do harpies fly in space?

**Kain**

vipoid wrote:
Kain wrote:
[
There aren't any rules for flying infantry.

Exactly. It's almost as if wings don't require you to be constantly flying at the same height as a jet fighter.

Kain wrote:

Harpies can fly in space and keep pace with Imperial star furies so I'm pretty sure FMCs can go much faster than anything operating under real world biologies ever could.

Wait, what? How the hell do harpies fly in space?

I dunno, ask Mothra and King Ghidorah. Harridans can do it too.

**Gordon Shumway**

vipoid wrote:
Kain wrote:
[
There aren't any rules for flying infantry.

Exactly. It's almost as if wings don't require you to be constantly flying at the same height as a jet fighter.

Kain wrote:

Harpies can fly in space and keep pace with Imperial star furies so I'm pretty sure FMCs can go much faster than anything operating under real world biologies ever could.

Wait, what? How the hell do harpies fly in space?

Maybe their wings act like solar sails?

**A Town Called Malus**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Kain wrote:
[
There aren't any rules for flying infantry.

Exactly. It's almost as if wings don't require you to be constantly flying at the same height as a jet fighter.

Kain wrote:

Harpies can fly in space and keep pace with Imperial star furies so I'm pretty sure FMCs can go much faster than anything operating under real world biologies ever could.

Wait, what? How the hell do harpies fly in space?

Maybe their wings act like solar sails?

Or they just flap really hard when they're in atmosphere so they achieve escape velocity and then just hope gravity pulls them somewhere useful rather than ending up in orbit around the sun

**Co'tor Shas**

There are few bad tau units, and some overpriced ones as well. Vespids are an obvious choice, tau already do ranged anti-meq shooting much better, our codex flyers are abysmal, and aun-shi is a joke. There are also some overpriced ones like devilfish and stealth suits, but I wouldn't call them bad, as such.

**Rumbleguts**

Kain wrote:
TheSilo wrote:
Rumbleguts wrote:
I think for tyranids is probably the malceptor, although the haruspex gives it a solid run for its money. I would say pyrovores but now that we have drop pods again, they can be useful.

Tyranids have a lot of units that could be tweaked to make more useful within the codex, but I really think wings for a hive tyrant needs a point increase, too huge an advantage for the cost. Makes taking anything other then a flyrant as a HQ almost shooting yourself in the foot, even in a fun game.

Don't have any ork players in our group, but I remember the fun of playing against orks in 2nd ed. I remember the general groans when the new codex came out. Makes me sad that one of the original, and most iconic, armies of 40k seems have had such a bad codex dumped on them.

Wings should work like jump-packs, not make them into FMCs.

Without FMC spam, the Tyranid codex would become very, very weak.

Especially as Flyrants are one of our two only real sources of anti-air.

Also, why would a set of wings not let you fly?

I don't know. I only use a max of 2 flyrants, and they are damned effective. But then I don't play tournaments, and we play less then 2k points so only the primary detachment. And we require formations to be filled out from the FoC, so that prevents most spamming. So my experiences probably aren't the same as tournament players. I would just like to see most of the units be more likely to be playable, rather then focusing on a very few good units.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

**Co'tor Shas**

So they are propelled by farts?

**sing your life**

Dark Angels: Land speeder vengeance that is a huge fire magnet thanks to its gun and yet can be destroyed by a mildy aggresive fart if it dosen't overheat itself to death beforehand.

Space Marines: Assault Centurions that would annhilate the enemy in close combat if they actually moved fast enougth to get anywhere near said enemy before being killed by shooting.

Chaos Space Marines: Warp talons that can only do any kind of damage in close combat yet hit slower than Tau firewarriors if unit they are charging isn't standing out completly in the open with no obstancles of any kind the Talons' path.

Other factions: No idea.

**vipoid**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
So they are propelled by farts?

I was thinking the exact same thing.

**dragoonmaster101**

For KDK its a close match up between between Possessed, KBs, and spawn, but due to the fact that spawn have little to no advantages over the flesh hounds while Khorne Berzerkers are much tougher than BLs while being over priced and possessed if faced against flayed ones or any infantry with a lower initiative and a 3-4 armor will utterly wreck them with right rolls.

**Deadeight**

For Space Wolves I'd say it's definitely Wolf Guard.

I personally think they did a great job of internally balancing all the units moving from the last codex to the current one... except for wolf guard.

They were already a unit that had one rare use, to outflank from the enemies board edge and fire a melta. They removed both their ability to outflank from the opponents board edge and also their option to take a melta. They're just bad.

**soomemafia**

Do you mean Wolf Scouts? Wolf Guard is pretty awesome if you ask me.

**Talon of Anathrax**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
Chaos: warp talons.

No! It's gotta be basic possessed or mutilators. Warp Talons can work in some builds (with daemon allies, with even bigger melee murderers to draw fire away from them, as a counter to full drop-pod armies (they'll murder anything that comes out, and are fast enough to catch them even if they land at a distance - as the warp talons are unlikely to be the primary target if you're doig it right)

)

Mutilators are just terrible though.

**Marsyas**

For Eldar: either Howling Banshees or Shining Spears. Honestly not sure which. Both are traps. Both are bad units. Both got great buffs, and none of those buffs actually addressed the problems with the units.

**Mywik**

Deadeight wrote:
For Space Wolves I'd say it's definitely Wolf Guard.

I personally think they did a great job of internally balancing all the units moving from the last codex to the current one... except for wolf guard.

They were already a unit that had one rare use, to outflank from the enemies board edge and fire a melta. They removed both their ability to outflank from the opponents board edge and also their option to take a melta. They're just bad.

Wolf scouts are total crap now. They cant even be used to fill cheap troop slots for a CAD since they are elite

. Okay they couldnt do that before too but they werent even OP in their previous iteration. Just fluffy and flavourful. They had their best times in 5th when assaulting from reserve wasnt prohibited. Nothing better than to enter from opponents board edge burn down a vehicle and assault it afterwards if the melta didnt destroy it completely.

But why do you think they cant take a melta? They still can take one.

**wormark**

Can we nominate worst units in each faction and include some forgeworld atrocities?

Let's see:
IG Arvus Lighter - 75 pts for AV10 3HP FA with no guns. You can buy guns for an absurd cost, but only ever snap shoot them. 25pts for a TL autocannon or worst of the worst 20 pts for 2 one shot hellstrike missiles that aren't even TL.

SM Chaplain Dreadnought - can re-roll hits in CC with his mighty 2 base attacks for 135 points. It should have some sort of zealot bubble.

BA Contemptor Dreadnought - can't take any of the cool weapons, instead pays a 50pt premium over the Furioso (itself not very good) for a worse platform.

Cybork Slashas - Regular Ork nobz are really bad, these are a more expensive version with redundant upgrades that kills themselves.

Chaos - Spined Chaos Beast at 140pts don't really do anything, especially compared to giant chaos spawn, which are better at only 80pts.

**Xenomancers**

Verviedi wrote:
Necrons- Scarabs
Guard- Hellhound
Skitarii- Ironstrider Balistarii
Space Marines- Terminators
Orks- Gorka/Morkanaut
Tyranids- Tyrant Guard
Harlequins- Voidweaver
Eldar- Storm Guardians
Chaos Space Marines- Thousand Sons
Grey Knights- Purgation Squads
Dark Angels- Dark Talon
Dark Eldar- Succubus

Succubus? LOL Wrong.

**vipoid**

Indeed - Dark Eldar can do much, much worse than a succubus.

**Xenomancers**

vipoid wrote:
Indeed - Dark Eldar can do much, much worse than a succubus.

Sure can! So what if I can over watch the succubus to death - she can at least rake in CC vs a lot of things that cost a lot more than her. Hellions are probably the worst.

**vipoid**

Or Bloodbrides, perhaps.