Is DUST a dying game?

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**ConCon**

I ask because a nearby store has had a lot of DUST miniatures on a 50% off sale since December of last year and they keep getting new stock and most of it is also 50% off. Almost like there is no market for it anymore because no one plays it.

**winterwind85**

the models make for great astra militarum conversions:-)
but i see alot of retailers clear their dust stock...

**Arschbombe**

I think so yes.

There seem to be some issues between the studio and the distribution deals as well as some bridge burning between at least one designer and the community such as it was.

Locally one of our guys really got into it, built a nice site, started recruiting players. Store bought a bunch of stock. It looked like it was getting some traction and then it all blew up.

**warboss**

ConCon wrote:
I ask because a nearby store has had a lot of DUST miniatures on a 50% off sale since December of last year and they keep getting new stock and most of it is also 50% off. Almost like there is no market for it anymore because no one plays it.

You may want to check out the drama in the kickstarter thread to see why you're getting that impression.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/633537.page

In a nutshell, Dust abruptly changed distributors from FFG to Battlefront, dumped one of the two game modes (the one that was less board game and more minis game), a massive 70% off sale flood the market by the former distributor that apparently restricted the new one from selling those kits, and then had a kickstarter that broke the KS terms by expressely using alot of the money to pay for prior expenses unrelated to the fulfillment of pledges and *SURPRISE!!* there were money issues leaving the customers in a lurch. Sorry about the disjointed sentance but that should give you at least the cliff notes version of why the game might be dying.

**privateer4hire**

Dying is a generous description.
I was lucky enough to get out while they were fiddling with editions (between revised core and last year). Local stores have it discounted at least 25% and the online stores are clearing it out with even deeper cuts.

**warboss**

My store has had the stuff on sale at 50% off since November when they bought a literal truckload themselves during the FFG 70% off sale (or was it 75% off... can't remember) and they passed on most of the savings.

Ironically, it frankensteined the game as it had no life before but now there are a couple of folks who took advantage of the discount and started playing (mainly the bolt action crowd). Whether or not that interest continues once the discount stops is another story though...

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Dying but not necessarily dead

Paolo the designer over at Dust Studios is clearly still intending to keep the game going (even if the KS fall out means that it has to be self distributed as they are planning to open a US office to do so if nessesary),

but the question is whether enough players will stick with it after a 3rd move, and whether any games stores will be willing to jump on to the new stuff with lots of old stuff still sale at major discounts

**JohnHwangDD**

I think Dust is a dead game, but I also know a friend who bought roughly a pallet's worth of stuff when FFG cleared it out - he's set with Dust for life.

**-DE-**

Is Dust all but dead as a brand? Hell no, the opposite - it's thriving!

... in bizarro world.

**MWHistorian**

Shame. The models seemed really cool.

**Necros**

It's a shame, I always liked the models but luckily sold mine while people were still buying. I just didn't think I'd get around to playing it.

I'd like to see them come back as a more skirmishy game where you have a handful of heroes and maybe a walker or 2, with really nice metal or resin minis, rather than a squad based game.

**BrookM**

It was a decent game when FFG did the rules for it, but apparently Paolo hates those rules something fierce..

**Mr. Burning**

BrookM wrote:
It was a decent game when FFG did the rules for it, but apparently Paolo hates those rules something fierce..

Paolo wants the perfect system...for him.

**BrookM**

Mr. Burning wrote:
BrookM wrote:
It was a decent game when FFG did the rules for it, but apparently Paolo hates those rules something fierce..

Paolo wants the perfect system...for him.

Why does it smell like Rackham all of the sudden..?

**Vertrucio**

To be honest, I'm not a fan of the boardgame rules either, so I would have preferred even more wargamey rules for the wargame version, instead of using the exact same simplistic stats for Warfare.

DUST isn't beyond recovery, but they will pretty much have to do everything right to start growing the game again.

Obviously, DUST still has a dedicated fanbase, so that can keep the game going for a while based off those kind of limited sales, but it's not going to grow or expand the game until the point where even those people stop buying.

**BobtheInquisitor**

ConCon wrote:
I ask because a nearby store has had a lot of DUST miniatures on a 50% off sale since December of last year and they keep getting new stock and most of it is also 50% off. Almost like there is no market for it anymore because no one plays it.

Where is this store? I'd probably pick up a few things for 50% off...

But, yeah, DUST is dust. (Had to be said. HAD TO.)

**Eilif**

It all depends on which product is being cleared out.

If you're seeing alot of Dust product at 50% off and it's FFG stuff then I wouldn't be worried. It's just FFG getting rid of old stock. I've heard that they have mountains of the stuff unsold. I wouldn't declare dust dead until the deal with Paolo and battlefront is sorted out.

If, however, you're seeing Battlefront-produced Dust being sold at 50% off, then DUST is in big trouble.

**Guildsman**

My local store sold off their stock, too. Interest just dropped off.

I don't think DUST is dead yet. Recent events have definitely hurt them, though.You can only burn so many bridges before your company suffers.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I loved buying the vehicles to use with my Eisenkern and friends. They were great minis, and made in glorious plastic before there was a lot of competition for plastic minis.

The game seemed popular, and I've heard a ton of great things about it, but I think it suffered from X-Wing syndrome (buy lots of boxes for more than they're worth if you want the good content) without the Star Wars name brand to save it. If the minis had been a bit cheaper, they would have been much easier to impulse buy or use as proxies.

Necros wrote:

I'd like to see them come back as a more skirmishy game where you have a handful of heroes and maybe a walker or 2, with really nice metal or resin minis, rather than a squad based game.

Wouldn't that destroy literally every advantage DUST had as a game?

**Haight**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
ConCon wrote:
I ask because a nearby store has had a lot of DUST miniatures on a 50% off sale since December of last year and they keep getting new stock and most of it is also 50% off. Almost like there is no market for it anymore because no one plays it.

Where is this store? I'd probably pick up a few things for 50% off...

But, yeah, DUST is dust. (Had to be said. HAD TO.)

I think what you meant to say was Dust is dead. Ashes to Ashes, and Dust to Dust.

... i'll see myself out.

All kidding aside, i really like the minis, and i love weird war two in general, but no one around here plays so i never even got the chance to see if i liked the rules or not.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Hell if Warzone can self-resurrect 3 or 4 times I think there's hope for Dust.

**warboss**

I suspect Rackham's games might be a better comparison.

**privateer4hire**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Hell if Warzone can self-resurrect 3 or 4 times I think there's hope for Dust.

I think a key is how often Dust/Dust Warfare/Dust Tactics/Dust Insert New Name Here has done that in a very short period.
In 2007, FFG made the Dust boardgame (all dates according to BoardGameGeek), a more Risk-looking world map global area control game.
Following that setting, the original big box Dust Tactics followed a couple years later in 2010.
That box went away and the Revised Core set is listed as coming out in 2011.
Dust Warfare came out in 2012, a tabletop wargaming version using the same minis.
Dust Tactics starter sets for another revamped set of rules (including the popular changing of dice) came out in 2014.
In between Dust Warfare and the 2014 Dust Tactics starter sets, IIRC there was a 1.5 or 2.5 get-you-by set of rules for transition from the FFG to BF rules.

Seems like a lot of Phoenix-like rebirth and a lot of clearance sales in between versions to me.

**Nodri**

Interesting timing for this discussion. BOLS just posted an interview with DUST creator Paolo Parente.

DUST Studio – an Interview With Paolo Parente
Posted by Robert Allen at May 6, 2015
t02
As I’m a big fan of DUST Tactics and DUST Warfare, I reached out to a man who knows DUST better than practically anyone – it’s creator, Paolo Parente.

There has been a lot of news lately about DUST, and sadly not all of it has been positive news. I emailed Mr. Parente some pressing questions that I had about DUST, himself, and the future of the games.
Welcome, Paolo!

Robert Allen: How did you get your start in the gaming industry? What are some of the companies/properties you have worked on?

PAOLO PARENTE: l have always been lucky in my career (more than talented…) l started doing professional Fantasy and Sci-Fi illustration in the early `80s for a good friend of mine who appened to be starting games publications in Italy. Stratelibri was the name of his company, he asked me to produce illos for the italian edition of various RPG games like Lord of the Rings, Call of Cthulhu and Cyberpunk. The swedish Target Games came after that with Mutant Chronicles, R. Talsorian with Cybergeneration, and then Doomtown, Magic the Gathering. In 2003 l moved to Paris to work with Rackham on both Confrontation and AT43. plus a few cards for World of Warcraft and a few comic book experiences. l have been lucky and busy.

RA: How long have you been developing DUST?

PP: Dust is my dream project, l started developing it some 20 years ago, l wanted to develop a universe where l could combine my passion for Model Kit building and Comic Books and Wargaming. Fifteen year ago l luckily met my business partner William Yau in Shanghai China and it got real. We decided to develop it first as 1/6 scale action figures that lead into the Comic Book and finally into a miniature wargame: Dust Tactics.

RA: What is your title and role with DUST Studios? What does your typical day look like?

PP: l am the designer and creative director at the same time plus l do photography and graphic design even painting some prototypes. Vincent Fontaine our Art Director and Painter normally is in charge of painting and taking pictures, but when he is too busy l an happy to help him. My typical day at the Factory/Monastery, that is located in the industrial outskirts of Shenzhen China, starts early in the morning with a couple of hours of reading. l then show up at the office at 10 am and work until 10 pm. Two quick meal breaks and a lot of coffee+cigarillo breaks during our long day.

RA: DUST fans have had kind of a rough couple of years, with the change of distribution from Fantasy Flight Games to Battlefront and now the issues of Battlefront’s Kickstarter fulfillment. How hard has this been on you, since DUST is so near and dear to you?

PP: The Babylon Kickstarter has been transformed in a nightmare for us and the backers to whom goes all my sympathy. Why this is happening goes beyond my understanding, l can only elaborate theories but l will never know the truth behind this mess. A successful KS like this should just go smoothly. BF “magic touch” made such a mess of it for no apparent reason. For sure Dust Studio resources and the backers helped BF to solve some imminent financial issues, we should have expected another form of saying thank you than this Total Mess…

Personally l react with anger when l believe l am being mistreated, so for me it`s not been depressive times, but not everybody in the studio reacts in the same way, and they have been suffering a lot. During this very long year (last payed invoice by BF is dated March 2014) Dust has been sustained financially by our production capacity in manufacturing minis for other parties and William`s and mine personal money. But the decision was made not to let our company end like GF9 or worse Rackham, so we have invested every energy into the Studio and into building it’s future.

RA: While some of the details are surely still up in the air, what do you see in the future for DUST?
PP: We will start distributing our product ourselves. A first warehouse will be established in the US right after Gen Con and we are preparing a lot of new stuff. New armies within each faction starting with the Luftwaffe for the Axis, followed by the British/Australian Long Range Desert Group for the Allies and Chinese Army for the SSU, these should lead to the release of the Japanese Navy Landing Forces by the end of next year.

RA: What’s the status of the Zverograd novel that Andy Chambers has written?
PP: Andy has written a wonderful first chapter of his Zverograd trilogy, it will be released this year. And he will soon start writing the second part!

RA: Are we going to see Japan? An Eastern Front setting?

PP: lf everything goes according to the plans we will see the Japanese around Christmas 2016 together with DUST 1947 the revised Dust rules.

RA: What about the Vril?
PP: The Vrill will be introduced in 2017, June l would say. unless a miracle happens and we can release a Japan vs Vrill starter set for Christmas 2016. That would be a dream come true.

RA: DUST Warfare and its abandonment by Battlefront really bothered a lot of DUST players who preferred Warfare to Tactics. Do you have plans to pick Warfare back up?
PP: Dust Studio has not enough energy to take care of warfare as well, we all know that. Personally l believe that Dust Tactics Battlefield does the same job and even better, Olivier Zamfirescu and l always wanted Warfare to be exactly like Tactics but without the grid. We will license later this year Warfare to one of his most devoted players, he will continue that legacy.

RA: What sneak peeks can you share with me (and the readers?)
PP: Luftwaffe+Rocket Troops, Axis Blutkreuz miny army, British LRDG, Chinese Liberation Army, Japanese Navy Landing Forces and a LOT more!

RA: Thanks for sharing, Paolo! I’m definitely looking forward to more DUST! If you’d like to learn more about DUST Studios and the great Paolo Parente, check them out here: DUST Studio.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

privateer4hire wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Hell if Warzone can self-resurrect 3 or 4 times I think there's hope for Dust.

I think a key is how often Dust/Dust Warfare/Dust Tactics/Dust Insert New Name Here has done that in a very short period.
In 2007, FFG made the Dust boardgame (all dates according to BoardGameGeek), a more Risk-looking world map global area control game.
Following that setting, the original big box Dust Tactics followed a couple years later in 2010.
That box went away and the Revised Core set is listed as coming out in 2011.
Dust Warfare came out in 2012, a tabletop wargaming version using the same minis.
Dust Tactics starter sets for another revamped set of rules (including the popular changing of dice) came out in 2014.
In between Dust Warfare and the 2014 Dust Tactics starter sets, IIRC there was a 1.5 or 2.5 get-you-by set of rules for transition from the FFG to BF rules.

Seems like a lot of Phoenix-like rebirth and a lot of clearance sales in between versions to me.

This is in part what killed the game amongst the people I knew were interested - too much instability of which rules, which game and where's it come from?

**Reaver83**

In all my time at various clubs/FLGS I've never seen it played, or stock bought

**notprop**

I've seen it in loads of WGI Ads, mentioned here a few times and gathering dust (pun intended) on shelves at various FLGS.

Never seen it played at a club or for that matter talked about. But it is pre-paint minis so that true of most similar things bar X-Wing.

It has been on 50% sale at Wayland for some time, might be worth a look for Foreign types and the exchange rate might make it even cheaper if this is your bag.

**CaulynDarr**

RA: DUST Warfare and its abandonment by Battlefront really bothered a lot of DUST players who preferred Warfare to Tactics. Do you have plans to pick Warfare back up?
PP: Dust Studio has not enough energy to take care of warfare as well, we all know that. Personally l believe that Dust Tactics Battlefield does the same job and even better, Olivier Zamfirescu and l always wanted Warfare to be exactly like Tactics but without the grid. We will license later this year Warfare to one of his most devoted players, he will continue that legacy.

Paolo can blame BF and others as much as he wants, but that article explains best why Dust is failing. He lets his personal feelings overrule good business practices. He might not have liked Warfare, but there where paying customers who did. And switching from FG mid-stride when Warfare was at it's peak potential hurt the game more than any bungling BF may have done later.

**Dez**

I like the BF version better, personally. We actually have a budding DUST fanbase here. I will admit the Kickstarter fiasco is hurting things, I have a couple hundred bucks tied up in it and I'm not happy. I'm hoping Paolo and company can do some good will service to get us all excited again.

**aw_man**

Its kinda funny, because this whole kickstarter fiasco got me into figuring out the difference between this game and AT-43.

Bad publicity is still publicity, and it worked on me at least. They got my attention and I have actually read into what this game is about.

I do hope they don't burn out, I am somewhat interested in this game now, and would definitely consider trying it out if this kickstarter thing got resolved.