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 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, despite me not claiming that violent crime is going down, but we still glorify violence, you are still claiming I'm saying it is about violent crime?

How are you defining "Violence"? What is it? Do you have quantified data on "violence"?

The only way to really measure it is to measure something related, like Violent Crime. And thats taking a meteoric plunge, not a slow and gradual decline, its heading for the floor at mach1.

How can you say with a straight face that violence is increasing, yet somehow violent crime is going down?

No, I'm claiming that we have different outlet for violence that are still bad. For example sports and our willingness to forgive them because they provide us a violent outlet. Such as ray rice who nearly killed his wife, but all he got was a fine and counseling, while you and me wold get a lot more.

You do realize that that incident would still get filed under Violent Crime right? So its still represented in the FBI's figures. So its still an indicator of violence. And since its an indicator of violence then violence MUST be going down.

Seriously, why can't you get this. Its right there in black and white.

That isn't what I'm claiming, I'm claiming our culture still very much forgives violence.

Ok, sure. Thats a perfectly fine claim.

But violence overall is still declining as per the FBI's statistics.

Ok, cool. But I'm saying that we as a culture still like violence. And even if we put it into come thing constructive, like fencing rather than pipe bombs, it still leads to a real problem in which violence is a part of our culture and we are more likely to forgive it,vesper I ally if they have money.

So you admit that you can channel violence into something constructive. Ergo, there is good violence and bad violence.

I fail to see how violence being part of a culture is a bad thing. Its just a thing, how you use it is what determines if its good or bad. Gonzo, murder, etc... most certainly bad. Martial arts, playing with toy guns, defending yourself from people trying to hurt you, most certainly good or at worst totally neutral.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, cool. But I'm saying that we as a culture still like violence. And even if we put it into come thing constructive, like fencing rather than pipe bombs, it still leads to a real problem in which violence is a part of our culture and we are more likely to forgive it,vesper I ally if they have money.

We forgive celebrities for a lot of crimes, not just violent ones.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, cool. But I'm saying that we as a culture still like violence. And even if we put it into come thing constructive, like fencing rather than pipe bombs, it still leads to a real problem in which violence is a part of our culture and we are more likely to forgive it,vesper I ally if they have money.

We forgive celebrities for a lot of crimes, not just violent ones.

Which I might add is totally unacceptable. Of course said celebrities also practically have no right to privacy from a legal standpoint either.

Which its stupid Itself.

As an Eagle Scout, this really bugs me.

Scouting was great about having a bunch of young boys learning various things, like shooting rifles and shotguns, in a semi autonomous setting. The adults oversaw the older scouts who in turn oversaw the younger ones. For camping trips, we had to plan out the food and itinerary, etc. It gave a very good supplement to school in learning more life practical and knowledge application, but was also a way to goof off and have a good deal of fun. Every summer camping trip my troop did, we had a massive water fight, sometimes against other troops. Spend and hour throwing water balloons at each other, using water guns to soak everyone. There was nothing "unkind" about it, or unsafe.

And for water balloons to be no bigger than ping pong balls? WTF is that gak!

My scouting experience was mostly with a bunch of jerks who ragged on me because I wasn't their relgion.

Nothing in the new PC charter covers usage of condoms, so I suggest that for today's scouts wanting larger than ping pong sized "water balloons" that they instead bring packs of magnum condoms with them to the water fights.

Nothing will get the attention of a wussbag scout master like somebody running up to him and slapping him in the face with a 14 inch water dong.

Then you can teach them two lessons, how much a condom can stretch. And how strong they are.

A friend of my mum's, when she had her boy she decided she wouldn't let him play with toy guns, because it was the 70s and people thought stuff like that. When this kid was about four or five he started using stick as guns, so his mother tried taking those away. So the kid starting using his thumb and index finger as a gun.

My mum watched all this and realised if a kid wants to play guns he'll find a way, and so a when my mum was raising me, she didn't try and pick and choose what toys I wanted. My toys were pretty much 100% toy guns and toy soldiers. Still are, basically.

It didn't turn me mean, or violent or hard, I'm about as gentle and soft as a grown up can be. The boy who had guns banned, and was raised with a lot of other hippy nonsense ended up just fine, married and happy, a personal trainer and a real estate agent (he moved from one to the other, I can't remember the order).

I guess basically what I'm trying to say is that just let kids be kids. They've got their whole lives to be jerked around by people's silly politics, including their own, so just let them have a bit of time when they can enjoy pretending to shoot terrorists without the baggage of any adults.

But at the same time, don't panic too much about silly nonsense like banning toy guns. It isn't anything new, and kids will find another way to get their pretend violence, and none of it will matter in the end to how the kid turns out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, cool. But I'm saying that we as a culture still like violence. And even if we put it into come thing constructive, like fencing rather than pipe bombs, it still leads to a real problem in which violence is a part of our culture and we are more likely to forgive it,vesper I ally if they have money.

We as a species like violence. Our culture just reflects a basic, primal part of ourselves.

Unless you are Mayweather, in which you you win by hugging the guy and running away.

Badumtesh, yes he's here all week ladies and gentlemen.

Perhaps it's a case of the BSA not wanting the scouts to have guns in case they're mistaken for the real thing.

Didn't some kid get killed by the police a few months back for waving a plastic gun around?

As for the military aspect of the Scots, Baden Powell was very clear that he didn't want the scouts to become a paramilitary organisation or a British version of the Hitler Youth. Martial training was not the ethos driving the scouts back then.

I have yet to see a water gun that even remotely resembles a real gun.

 d-usa wrote:
And maybe, just maybe, be a role model to your kids and teach them to actually use critical thinking instead of just believing and repeating whatever bs story you want to believe. 5 years ago the Boy Scouts of America were training to be Obama's version of the Hitler Youth, being trained to take up arms against their parents and fight for their Dear Leader when their transition from Scout to SS soldier becomes complete:


(Pictured above is the Obama Youth Killing Squad, or a Law Enforcement Explorer Squat learning counter terrorism tactics, or how to be wussies, I don't even know anymore)

Either the Boy Scouts of America have a very impressive ability to completely change the scope, mission, and purpose of their organization and everything that it touches, or people are outraged over bs stories 5 years ago the same way that they are outraged about bs stories now.

And newsflash: All of us are the wussies that our fathers bitched about, who were the wussies that their fathers bitched about, who were wussies themselves according to their fathers.

I must have missed this news first time around (but then again I wasn't in this country 5 years ago), but which credible news organization was running this story as a serious topic?

 Jihadin wrote:
I see tomorrow male youths a bit "weak" willed

Tomorrow??? Have you seen the "Spine" kids these days have? Jelly fish have stiffer spine than most of them.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its Wussification when its total banning of the activity, and actively campaigning against it and all related behavior. If all the SJWs got their way they'd extend these stupid zero tolerance policies all the way into our homes. Kids couldn't point fingers in their own yards and say "blam!".

First of all, that isn't what happened. Second, there have always been nosey, righteous people. Third, the SJWs are not that United, powerful or extreme for the most part.

The kids in Kindergarten don't play cops and robbers for the same reason we didn't play Cowboys and Indians growing up: because something better came along. At the schools I've been to, all the kids played Zombies, which involved a lot of fake shooting and biting. They also played superheroes and Transformers. Boys and girls. In CA, of all places.

Of course, nothing about Boy Scouts will ever be as cool as Indian Guides, where we used real tomahawks and had regular events at shooting ranges, but that doesn't make Boy Scouts 'wussified'. Probably.

The difference today is that everything is much more connected and the media is so much more pervasive that he hear about all the busybodies these days, whereas only the unfortunate kids who lived near them ever knew they existed in the 80's.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I see tomorrow male youths a bit "weak" willed

Tomorrow??? Have you seen the "Spine" kids these days have? Jelly fish have stiffer spine than most of them.

Not my boyz...

Eldest is on track to be a successful evil mastermind.

Youngest is my daredevil... he's going to be that kid who'll do anything and feth what anyone thinks.

Yes... I'm a proud (tired) pa.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I have yet to see a water gun that even remotely resembles a real gun.

I've bought a ton for cosplay purposes. They are pretty easy to find in stores that carry a lot of cheap imported toys.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My scouting experience was mostly with a bunch of jerks who ragged on me because I wasn't their relgion.

That happened a lot to one of my Jewish friends. His Scout troop leader turned a blind eye and told him to suck it up. One day a bunch of kids tied him up and beat him, leaving him in the woods until the leader found him. The leader refused to punish any of the other boys, and that was the end of Boy Scouting for my friend.

Clearly I should apply this isolated experience to the whole organization and complain about the nazification of today's youth.


(On a semi-related note, in Garden Grove the high schoolers use the epithet "Jew" the way kids in the 90's used "gay". What the hell, Garden Grove?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Ok, sure. Thats a perfectly fine claim.

But violence overall is still declining as per the FBI's statistics.

Uh, Is that how the FBI argues the US is being wussified?

Is the drop in violence and associated suffering really worth the threat to our nation's future manhood?

Was a Boy Scout in the late 80's and I don't remeber anyone ever bringing a water gun to an event. We where to busy tying knots, canoeing, hiking, camping, fishing, and starting fires. The Boy Scouts was a blast and I always looked forward to my 2 weeks of the summer at scout camp.
So what they don't want you bringing water guns to events, I don't think it's that much of a big deal. You should be busy doing scouting things anyways

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
First of all, who gives a gak?

I give a gak because of the ongoing wussifications on our boys.

Im sorry what?

Its been happening for a while now. Traditionally masculine activities and behavior are viewed as not cool or outright disallowed.

Toy guns are bright neon colors. Playing cops and robbers is viewed negatively or banned in places where they can(like schools). Roughhousing isn't allowed. etc...

I'm sure whembly has many more examples.

Because a real cop with a real gun will drive up and fething shoot you dead, that's why they don't allow you to do these things.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
First of all, who gives a gak?

I give a gak because of the ongoing wussifications on our boys.

Im sorry what?

Its been happening for a while now. Traditionally masculine activities and behavior are viewed as not cool or outright disallowed.

Toy guns are bright neon colors. Playing cops and robbers is viewed negatively or banned in places where they can(like schools). Roughhousing isn't allowed. etc...

I'm sure whembly has many more examples.

Because a real cop with a real gun will drive up and fething shoot you dead, that's why they don't allow you to do these things.

Sure, if you act aggressively with the toy gun.

If you obey the officers instructions you won't get hurt and the situation can get resolved. I'll be sure to teach my kids to obey what the police say, especially in a situation like that.

Unless your name is tamir rice.

He explicitly did NOT obey the officers instructions and made a grab for the gun. And the call was in response to him brandishing and intimidating people in the area with the gun.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No, but it speaks to how violent our culture it. And how getting kids to love violence perpetuates it.
and you probably seen it, just don't know that is what it is called

Like kids in the past were any less violent. Western culture as a whole has actually become a lot less violent. Men are violent by nature, and trying to repress that only leads to very big problems. It is better to give them a safe outlet (such as playing with water guns for boys)

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Men are violent by nature, and trying to repress that only leads to very big problems. It is better to give them a safe outlet (such as playing with water guns for boys)

I call bull on this. People are violent. Boys are typically encouraged to embrace their violent impulses more than girls, but that doesn't mean that boys are naturally more violent than girls.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Men are violent by nature, and trying to repress that only leads to very big problems. It is better to give them a safe outlet (such as playing with water guns for boys)

I call bull on this. People are violent. Boys are typically encouraged to embrace their violent impulses more than girls, but that doesn't mean that boys are naturally more violent than girls.

That is true. But it doesn't make what he said wrong, he wasn't saying that girls can't be violent too.