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 Wyzilla wrote:
http://gyazo.com/16fe44714fde04a53986a8ee57b72b74

http://gyazo.com/81185cfb4a585eb6baca4fd2d9b6be98

Don't know if these have been posted, but Dark Angels can now reduce your best unit to WS1 BS1 permanently. They can also rig your leadership test so the unit is doomed to fail it.

Now excuse me as I go off and laugh maniacally at all the ways I could horribly maul people's lists by turning their best unit into a blind cripple.

We could always do that with Ezekiel, especially using the conclave. But having that in access to ANY psyker is.. quite interesting.
And Mind Wipe is pretty expensive with 3 Warp Charges.... Plus Seed of Fear does not affect Leadership tests, does it?
Also, Mindworm was D3 Assault before, whereas its just assault 1 now.

Wow, Mindworm certainly got buffed.

Re, never mind, lol. Went up a warp charge, fewer attacks. Went up to S6 tho.

 TedNugent wrote:
Wow, Mindworm certainly got buffed.

Not really it used to be d3 assault IIRC

With the 3D6 leadership test and BS4 overwatch, DA is gonna lol at Orks so hard. Making crimson fists jealous.

Dark Angels are certainly getting some nice new toys and buffs. It's great for long-time DA players to finally get some love and be somewhere respectable on the power curve. My Tyranids will not like that full BS overwatch...

rollawaythestone wrote:
Dark Angels are certainly getting some nice new toys and buffs. It's great for long-time DA players to finally get some love and be somewhere respectable on the power curve. My Tyranids will not like that full BS overwatch...

Not really, from what I'm seeing. It's certainly gonna make Tyranids and Orks worse, though. I don't see how any of this is gonna help against the new Eldar or the new Space Marines. Or Necrons. Or Tau.

Looks like Dark Angels have all the tools to wreck any army that's pre-formation pretty well. Good thing I shelved my Chaos and Imperial Guard. Also LOL'd at them having an actual psychic discipline and each Chaos god only gets 3 + Primaris. What a time to live.

:edit: It says models in Term armor can get combi weapons hahahaha feth you Chaos you suck

rollawaythestone wrote:
Dark Angels are certainly getting some nice new toys and buffs. It's great for long-time DA players to finally get some love and be somewhere respectable on the power curve. My Tyranids will not like that full BS overwatch...

Well it looks like we are losing some of our good toys too, so *shrug*

The big question is still whether the Terminators go down in cost, especially in comparison to vanilla marines.

Harlequin heroes path formation with dark angels. Get the seer with mask of secrets and telepathy, plus DA librarians.....fun times.

 TedNugent wrote:
The big question is still whether the Terminators go down in cost, especially in comparison to vanilla marines.

Since a DWCS is 2000 pts that makes a DW Terminator 40pts, down from 44.
IF we got the 10 point TH/SS treatment as well, that's a nerf.

 Wyzilla wrote:
http://gyazo.com/16fe44714fde04a53986a8ee57b72b74

http://gyazo.com/81185cfb4a585eb6baca4fd2d9b6be98

Don't know if these have been posted, but Dark Angels can now reduce your best unit to WS1 BS1 permanently. They can also rig your leadership test so the unit is doomed to fail it.

Now excuse me as I go off and laugh maniacally at all the ways I could horribly maul people's lists by turning their best unit into a blind cripple.

Not best unit, It is model. A model must suffer a wound from it and survive. If it kills a model in a unit, The unit dosent get WS and BS and Leadership reduced, It specificaly states if a model suffers an unsaved wound. So I guess it is good against a multi-wound HQ or monsterous creature, But not much else..

Mind Worm nerfed actually. Trephination is just worse version of Psychick Shriek with bigger cost. New disciplines seem interesting and themed but far weaker then actual Telepathy.

Merellin wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
http://gyazo.com/16fe44714fde04a53986a8ee57b72b74

http://gyazo.com/81185cfb4a585eb6baca4fd2d9b6be98

Don't know if these have been posted, but Dark Angels can now reduce your best unit to WS1 BS1 permanently. They can also rig your leadership test so the unit is doomed to fail it.

Now excuse me as I go off and laugh maniacally at all the ways I could horribly maul people's lists by turning their best unit into a blind cripple.

Not best unit, It is model. A model must suffer a wound from it and survive. If it kills a model in a unit, The unit dosent get WS and BS and Leadership reduced, It specificaly states if a model suffers an unsaved wound. So I guess it is good against a multi-wound HQ or monsterous creature, But not much else..

What are you talking about? I'm talking about Mind Wipe.

Merellin wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
http://gyazo.com/16fe44714fde04a53986a8ee57b72b74

http://gyazo.com/81185cfb4a585eb6baca4fd2d9b6be98

Don't know if these have been posted, but Dark Angels can now reduce your best unit to WS1 BS1 permanently. They can also rig your leadership test so the unit is doomed to fail it.

Now excuse me as I go off and laugh maniacally at all the ways I could horribly maul people's lists by turning their best unit into a blind cripple.

Not best unit, It is model. A model must suffer a wound from it and survive. If it kills a model in a unit, The unit dosent get WS and BS and Leadership reduced, It specificaly states if a model suffers an unsaved wound. So I guess it is good against a multi-wound HQ or monsterous creature, But not much else..

Not Mind Worm.

Read Mind Wipe and Seed of Fear. That combo = fun times for Death Stars, though WC3 sucks.

Someone posting in the comments section of Faeit - user Alendrel:

WARLORD TRAITS
1 The Hunt: Warlord has Precision Shots and Ignores Cover

2 Courage of the First Legion: 12" Fearless bubble for DA units

3 For the Lion! Warlord and unit has Furious Charge

4 Brilliant Planning: While Warlord is on battlefield, may modify Reserve Rolls by 1 after the roll

5 Rapid Manoeuvre: +3" to Flat-Out, Turbo-boost, Run, AND CHARGE MOVES

6 Hold At All Costs: Warlord and unit has FnP within 3" of an Objective

Nephilim - Blacksword missiles are now S7 AP3 and Missile Lock allows reroll misses with One-Use weapons. Avenger bolt cannon unchanged.

Dark Talon - Rift cannon now S10 AP2 and if doubles are rolled on the scatter dice the shot becomes Vortex. Stasis bomb also requires models to pass I test for unsaved wounds or be removed.

And remember that Vortex == Destroyer.

Sacred Standard is now just a single generic entry, the unit carrying it has Counterattack and Relentless, and the usual 12" Morale reroll bubble.

Interromancy powers:

Primaris - Mind Worm - WC1 focussed witch fire, 12" S6 AP2 Assault 1, Ignores Cover, if model takes an unsaved wound then -3 BS/WS/I/Ld for rest of game

1 - Seed of Fear - WC1 Maledication affecting all enemy units within 9", they take Morale, Pinning, and Fear on 3d6

2 - Righteous Repugnance - WC1 Blessing 24" grants unit Rage

3 - Aversion - WC1 Malediction 24" unit may only fire Snap Shots

4 - Malestrom of Misery - WC2 witchfire 24" S1 AP2 Assault 1 Blast always wounds on 4+

5 - Trephination - WC2 18" focussed witchfire - affected model rolls 2d6+2-Ld and takes that many wounds with no armor or cover saves

6 - Mind Wipe - WC3 24" malediction - target unit is WS1/BS1 until end of their next turn, when they have to take a Ld test, if failed effect is permanent


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RW and DW Company banners are unchanged.

Deathwing rule replaces Inner Circle, grants Fearless and Hatred (CSM).

DW Knights maces of absolution now AP3, Smite is now basically a Smash attack: trade all attacks for one Sx2 AP2 attack, chosen per model, not limited use.

DW Assault is a formation rule, everything Deep Strikes in on choice of turn 2, 3, or 4 - includes Ven Dreads in Pods.

Summoned to War is a detachment rule, all units in detachment must start in Deep Strike reserve, if army has a RW Attack Squadron or Strike Force you basically choose the results of Reserve Rolls for the detachment.

Summon the DW: Formation rule, models in the formation are basically 12" teleport homers for DW units.

Ravenwing rule allows models to reroll failed Jink saves.

Speed of the Raven detachment rule: On first tirn (or second if units in reserves), units that turbo-boost or Flat Out count as Jinking but aren't forced to Snap Shot the following turn.

Ravenwing grenade launcher radshell is no longer -1T but the to-wound of 6 causes two wounds.

Sammael in Sabreclaw gets a D3+1 S4 AP2 hits sweep attack.

Land Speeder Vengeance plasma battery is now 36".

Dark Shroud's Icon of Old Caliban is Fear and Stealth to DA units within 6" and no prevents Overwatch when those units start the Assault phase with 6" of it.

Blade of Caliban no longer Unwieldy.

Relic blades in as S+2 AP1 Unwieldy Two-Handed.

Ezekiel grants +1A to models within 6" instead of the WS buff.

Power field generator gone, but Azarael's Lion Helm does affect transport he is in.

Sammael can fire both his guns now!

Azarael still gets to pick his Warlord Trait off the DA chart, also grants +1 to Seize the Initiative.

The Hammer of Caliban formation (Techmarine, a Land Raider of some flavor, and a unit of WW's, Preds, or Vinds) has to have the Techmarine start in the Raider, but the Raider is BS5 as long as he's in it. There's also a couple of "All the vehicles in the formation form one squadron but count as two units if destroyed" rules - I suspect one applies here.

I don't know if this has been covered by is Azrael a lord of war like the other named chapter masters in their own books? Also, did they get access to the storm raven?

Well Darktalon looks good enough now - like SW Helfrost.
Not sure about the Nephilim - even with S7 and rerolls its gonna be hard to deal with heavier flyers.
Against an AV12 flyer, all those missiles will deal .6 HP against a jinking flyer... basically useless.
Rad Shells look pretty bad now.
Vengeance better have some more help or a massive price drop.
The rest looks pretty kinky!

Not to mention all the new Space Marine goodies too. Grav galore and free dediciated transports in a Battle Company.

Speed of the Raven detachment rule: On first tirn (or second if units in reserves), units that turbo-boost or Flat Out count as Jinking but aren't forced to Snap Shot the following turn.

Now that is a hidden gem... Boost forward, drop in the termies RIGHT in front of the enemy, then pop a vehicle due to surviving with a 4+ with Meltas.

 Thairne wrote:

Rad Shells look pretty bad now.

Speaking from someone who has been using Skitarii(which have a similar special rule), on the surface it doesn't seem great...but man when it works it's great.

The DA codex is again 46€, same as the SM codex.
And on top of it two new clampack(?) models and a battle force.
It's hardly worth the effort and the money.

Mace of Absolution sounds better, sounds like DW Knights will be a real force to be reckoned with!

Any word on Azrael/Belial/Sammy's FOC moving being gone or staying?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Thairne wrote:

Rad Shells look pretty bad now.

Speaking from someone who has been using Skitarii(which have a similar special rule), on the surface it doesn't seem great...but man when it works it's great.

Well for now its 1 per 200 pt unit.. with rapid fire. Granted, its a blast, but that means it may scatter off and do nothing, too. Just not enough volume to be a boon. I'D rather shoot Krak Grenades and kill stuff.

CrashGordon94 wrote:
Mace of Absolution sounds better, sounds like DW Knights will be a real force to be reckoned with!

Any word on Azrael/Belial/Sammy's FOC moving being gone or staying?

It's gone, but there are alternate Detachments allowing for similar things--which seemingly don't require you to field the special character.

FOC changing is a thing of the past. Expect formations to be the way you get significant changes to your army composition.

So why can SM still make bikes troops? Or have I been misinformed?

Does anyone know if there's still a rule changing AP against CSM and does it work on Daemonkin?

seems like we get hatred(CSM) instead of a + to AP

So if that's true, then no DWA on Turn 1, and therefore no null deployment Deathwing. Damn.

Likely. But null deployment isn't a fun mechanic.
Driving jinking bikes right up to the enemy, THEN dropping in Terminators, is not only extremely fluffy, but also fun!
All the changes so far are not only mechanically sound, but also very in lore.
SMash for Knights? You can really see them going Kamehameha, with their maces rised, energy crackling and building up before they go BOOM!

I'm happy and I know it, therefore I clap my hands!

I'm still really worried about the AA department. Nephilims currently don't cut it either.