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Much like my overreaction to news that bike troops wouldn't be a thing in the last codex, it appears that news of the demise of Black Templars was exaggerated.

And the Emperor's Champion just became good again.

I am glad that the Black Templars appear to have received a boost. The Sons of Dorn need to be strong, even if you guys play the nutbag, fanatical version of them

Terribly uninspirational from games workshop. If we start taking casualties, we essentially get mark of khorne for free? HERESY!

 Sir Arun wrote:
Terribly uninspirational from games workshop. If we start taking casualties, we essentially get mark of khorne for free? HERESY!

Theyre pretty fluffy rules and capture the feel of the original codex without the stupidness.
Im pretty psyched, the new chapter tactics are heads and tails better for templars then 6th ed

I agree, these rules are closer to what Righteous Zeal used to be. But at least now you can't get pulled off of objectives for being shot at. I might actually get some assault marines or bike squads for my Black Templar now.

But what I'm really excited about is the Emperors Champion being s6 ap2 at initiative. He will finally be able to step off the shelf and back on to the battlefield to uphold his oath.
It's one of my favorite models, so I'm super excited to use him again.

I really can't believe there's any complaining at all.

The BT have more Chapter Traits than any other Chapter, and their rules fit the established Fluff. They just updated to gain access to ALL of the newest C:SM toys and special rules.

And the BT have the most comprehensive Chapter-specific bitz of any Chapter.

For a Chapter that came out of nowhere, that's really impressive stuff.

Particularly when you compare with, oh, say, Sisters of Battle still getting nothing.

I'm glad to say that I was wrong. It does look like we are getting back some of our old flair back.

I'm very happy that I pre-ordered the book and may switch back to them from Crons for a bit to get a feel of the new book.

Also really happy that the Relics don't appear to be changing up at all - means I can still try out a bike Marshal w/burning blade!

Definitely going to pick up this new codex and start up that Templars army I've been promising myself, as Chaos is just overall getting beyond stale and boring - especially the now all but obsolete CSM's...
Here's hoping that GW will finally give Chaos some decent treatment, AND, that it'll be soon'ish & not another 12-18 months before dropping a barely polished turd that still refuses to give us any new squad weapon upgrades.

CSM are the oldest 6E Codex, right? So they should be updated shortly, say 2 months from now.

So the grand overall verdict is:

Black Templars got better in the 7th edition SM codex compared to the 6th edition SM codex.

Ok - we lost the "re-roll all misses in challenges and your weapons are rending in challenges" bit. But we gained counter-attack and rage when losing guys to enemy fire AND especially overwatch (ohh, BT players will beg to get overwatched before assault now).

Grimaldus also dropped a whooping 35 points in cost; his servitors are now +5 points extra per model but their bubble is 6+FNP instead of 6++ inv., so a bit more useful.

Helbrecht unfortunately didnt change one bit.

And dont forget the Emperors Champion. He's now got a huge boost. He still has rerolls to-hit in a challenge and on 6s has instant death. Also his attacks are s6 ap2 and at initiative 5.
So I think you will see a lot more Emperors Champion models out there.

Oh and dreads get chapter tactics now too. So they have crusader and adamantium will, and (i think) will get rage and hatred if they are in a unit of three and one dies. may have to check the wording on that to see if it works in this case.

I don't wanna be a party-pooper, but I'm looking at the leaked rules and I can't find the crusader squads anywhere in the Gladius Strike Force. Sooo, I'm guessing CAD/Unbound only for BT?

Yeah thats a bummber. CAD all the way.

You can CAD with a Normal Chaplain/Grimaldus for your Crusade Squads, LRCs, Cent Devs, Stormraves, Dreads, and use the non-Demi Battle Company Formations to bring in the rest of your stuff and still get all your BT Chap Tacs.

At least that's my plan.

So is a black tide viable now?

Either on foot or with mass vehicles, its the only way I'll ever consider playing marines

Really sucks that you can't get free vehicles with crusaders though

Do we have the actual wording for Crusader? If it's just a modification of the Tactical Squad entry, BT might be golden.

Crusader Squads are a completely separate entry from Tactical Squads.

 Dakkamite wrote:
So is a black tide viable now?

Either on foot or with mass vehicles, its the only way I'll ever consider playing marines

Really sucks that you can't get free vehicles with crusaders though

I agree it sucks that we don't get the swap, but we don't need no stinking Rhinos and Razors. We have the ALMIGHTY LAND RAIDER CRUSADER!

 Dakkamite wrote:
So is a black tide viable now?

It's as viable as it was before (so not really). The buffs increased the amount of damage the marines do once they're in combat, but nothing was done to address their penchant for simply getting wiped out before even reaching combat.

The closest thing to a delivery buff we got was that if BT fail a morale check from shooting, they run 2d6" toward the nearest enemy instead of falling back (I think, may have misread).

Also neophytes might have gotten a buff since scouts are all ws/bs 4.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
So is a black tide viable now?

It's as viable as it was before (so not really). The buffs increased the amount of damage the marines do once they're in combat, but nothing was done to address their penchant for simply getting wiped out before even reaching combat.

The closest thing to a delivery buff we got was that if BT fail a morale check from shooting, they run 2d6" toward the nearest enemy instead of falling back (I think, may have misread).

Also neophytes might have gotten a buff since scouts are all ws/bs 4.

I think that is one of the Warlord traits. Not sure if one of their special characters can guarantee it though.

Just checked and you're right about it being a warlord trait.

Bummer.

 DarkLink wrote:
Crusader Squads are a completely separate entry from Tactical Squads.

The key is the wording.

"Black Templars may take Crusader Squads"

vs

"Black Templars must take Crusader Squads instead of Tactical Squads"

In the latter formulation, a BT demi-Company or Company would have Crusaders for their core, and they would get all of the formation bonuses.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:
Crusader Squads are a completely separate entry from Tactical Squads.

The key is the wording.

"Black Templars may take Crusader Squads"

vs

"Black Templars must take Crusader Squads instead of Tactical Squads"

In the latter formulation, a BT demi-Company or Company would have Crusaders for their core, and they would get all of the formation bonuses.

From the looks of it, Crusader Squads just have the Chapter Tactics (Black Templars) SR, which means that they can only be taken by Black Templars. There is no reference in the Gladius Strike Force or the Battle Demi-Company to Crusader Squads. Only Tactical Squads.

Actually, it's quite fluffy that Templars don't get access to the Demi-Company formation.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Actually, it's quite fluffy that Templars don't get access to the Demi-Company formation.

This. If you want the benefits of following the codex, you actually need to, you know, follow the codex!

Looks like the BT made out pretty good this edition. Congrats!

Here is a hypothetical question for your BT players out there: Would you rather field 3x crusader squads in DT LRCs, or just embark them into an LR spearhead formation?

It would have been nice to get an alternative for Crusade Companies.

Honestly, the Demi-Company would work perfectly if it just swapped Tac and Crusade Squads as options.

So BT can't use the formations with crusader squads?

Wow, that is probably a mess up.

Hopefully they get on the FAQs right away....

After reading the new rules.. fair to say.. I'm excited to get the book and begin a new crusade against the enemies of mankind!

darkcloak wrote:
So BT can't use the formations with crusader squads?

Wow, that is probably a mess up.

Hopefully they get on the FAQs right away....

I wouldn't count on it. The Battle Demi-Company is for Codex-Adherent Companies, which the Black Templars are most certainly not when deploying Crusader Squads. Same goes for White Scars deploying Bike Squads in place of Tactical Squads.

 Nevelon wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Actually, it's quite fluffy that Templars don't get access to the Demi-Company formation.

This. If you want the benefits of following the codex, you actually need to, you know, follow the codex!

Looks like the BT made out pretty good this edition. Congrats!

Here is a hypothetical question for your BT players out there: Would you rather field 3x crusader squads in DT LRCs, or just embark them into an LR spearhead formation?

They can use the LR Spearhead Formation and it's a good one, as they ignore all modifiers short of being destroyed, which is a great fit for them as you can do a lot with it. Stick 2x Crusader Squads in 2x of them and then Stick the EC with your Warlord and a beefed up CC unit and your all set.