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It wasn't that bad. Had a few design issues but mediocre as a whole.

Tactics had the issue that the producers pushed the deadline way too hard, to the point that the devs had to drop the turn based system entirely. I mean I can fault then of course for the thankless job of turning the whole game into what it was and them playing fast with the canon, but it seemed to me like the people working on it were just doing what they were told by their higher ups.

However Tactics is still in fact canon, or at least semi-canon. 3 references them in one of the Citadel's computers, and New Vegas makes some more nods to the Midwestern Chapter (however also it should be noted that the Legion also fought, and probably destroyed them). But yes, we'll ignore the poor handling of that game's plot. The logic the devs had was "oh the Brotherhood's short on numbers, so they start recruiting the locals because they want to finish their mission". Ah, yeah no. That's the reason why they're almost extinct, among others, that they don't recruit just anyone like their enemies do.

...Ah, and ignoring all the other weird bits about the canon too apart from the Brotherhood. Ideas that could have gone somewhere, but they were implemented poorly, or just came across as really generic. The question is, what if they had had Chris Avellone on the crew at the time? ...Though Interplay, reading the dev's feelings about the project, didn't even care about that game, to the point they wanted to rush it out of the door as soon as possible. It seems like they thought it was a good idea at first then immediately gave up on it and wanted rid of the thing. Pity then that putting out an inferior product, even if you didn't make it, still damages the brand. Tell that to the Fallout PS2 game, Fallout Xtreme! and Fallout: Tactics 2. =P

It had no right to carry the Fallout name though, as it completely broke with the established background.

The devs thought that they could change details here and there and nobody would care. I don't know if they even knew anything about the game, bar in broad strokes. Rather actually some people probably did, for instance some of the art department, but plenty of others didn't, or thought they knew best. I.e. typical game design.

However like I said, I wouldn't place the whole blame on their shoulders. Interplay should have looked at the game and told them to change things. Instead they pushed the game out of the door unfinished rather than polishing the thing, as by that point all they were caring about was their imminent bankruptcy that was on the horizon.

Yarrr. Imagine Fallout Tactics nowadays. The uproar at RPGCodex would cause a nuclear explosion.

I like Fallout tactics, a lot.

I replayed Fallout: Tactics recently. I had played it years ago and made it pretty far in. Trying to play it now though? Ah, yeah, I just don't understand that real time combat system. I'm sitting there trying to plan my moves as my characters die one by one. The issue I have is that the percentages system just doesn't work outside of turn based combat. I have one of my Initiates go prone and aim at a guy inches away from them, but they miss every time. I try turning on the turn based system, only to remember that the devs explicitly said "yeah that thing doesn't work at all. We just packaged it that way before we could actually flesh it out. Don't even think about using it". It could have worked if it were turn based, but then it would stray into the realms of the original games where you have twenty actors trying to do something and the player has to sit there for ages waiting for their turn to come around again. =P

Fallout as a squad based game with Mass Effect style mechanics and controls? Hmn, maybe. That'd suit that game Josh Sawyer wants to do set around a squad of British soldiers travelling across Europe during the Resource Wars. That or something XCom style. Anything other than what Tactics gave us...

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Its probably something that nobody's noticed, but they're using a different model for the pre-war and post-war Vault elevator for some reason? There's little details that are different oddly (like missing cranks or different types of pipes). Its not something that really matters, but its damn annoying to me right now.

...Also that thing's bloody huge. Even downscaling it a tad its still 12'' across. I suppose the interior elevator was made to take a good few people down at one time, but damn.

Different type of vault - if what i am hearing is correct, this is not a Vault dwelling, but a Cryo Vault.

There is likely an entrance to the facility, and another to the cryo storage.

Hmmm, near Watertown... I wonder whether the Arsenal will be there.

And if the game is bringing back Skully Square... I wonder if they will have the Old Howard, if they are bringing back lost landmarks?

The Auld Grump

 Wyrmalla wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It's the setting and the story that makes it Fallout.

Let's keep it at "setting"

...unless you meant "lore" not actual story. Story-wise, modern FO games were extremely thin and rival Skyrim.

You mean 3 was weak in the story telling department and left a lot to the player to guess at (the feth was the point in Super Mutants at that game?). New Vegas was pretty great for its story and how it developed from the previous game's history (though also led into building new stories and fleshing out other areas in the Fallout world).

4 will probably be no better than Skyrim, but as long as the sandbox world is there it'll be a good enough frolic till the 3rd party Fallout game comes around and we can see what the same game, but with actual decent writing can be.

Yup, I'm torpedoing 4 before it even comes out, but Bethesda has a really poor track record when it comes to writing. The mods more than make up for all that though. Gimme a mod that adds a ton of loot to the game and I'll be happy to play the game for two years straight.

You know the worst part is that sometimes they show hints of inspiration and some wit here and there but, ever since the release of Oblivion and onwards, they went from amazing rpg makers to mediocre games that I tend to find fun but lose the things I loved about Daggerfall and Morrowind and... well let's just say that Fallout 3 was a massive let down to me. Also super mutants confirmed still but it seems they aren't hyped up. Still, maybe they'll pull a card out and wow me against all the odds or I'll be on my glorious complaining to friends because they find it amusing how passionate I can get over cyberpunk and post-apoc things.


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 Wyrmalla wrote:
There was a mod for New Vegas and Skyrim that added huge battles all over the place. Warzones I think its called. That, though intensive, I think included scripts that eased off the resource usage. However, because of the consoles (woo PC Master Race!), Bethesda doesn't include the script extender in their base games to allow for this functionality by default. New Vegas pushed the base game to its limit with the Hoover Dam battle actually, even though there was only about a dozen or two people fighting at once. None of the NPCs have faces, so that saves memory. When you kill them their bodies disappear, that's more saving. They're mostly the same guy copy and pasted...

Yes though, they could just avoid situations that require that number of actors altogether. Skyrim was a lot more fun when fighting the Civil War with mods installed, where say the Siege of Whiterun has the whole place piled up with bodies by the end of it (that was with the Civil War Overhaul mod, which has reinforcements keep appearing till your morale breaks. ...The same mod also includes trebuchets and mercenary units like Giants). My mantra with Bethesda game is that rather than griping at where the vanilla games suck, that there's always going to be a mod out there that makes that element better. ...Well half of the time.

I also got the mods to add varied creatures and scout forces galore. Nothing like seeing skirmishes occur that actually look pretty huge. Darn the vampire travelers though...

Also is everyone prepared for the glorious bugginess that it shall be in?


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 Korinov wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Yup, I'm torpedoing 4 before it even comes out, but Bethesda has a really poor track record when it comes to writing.

Indeed.

All Bethesda games I've played so far have had some hidden real gems in terms of writing, i.e. a few Skyrim quests here and there, Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood questline, etc.

But overall their writing talent is quite limited. Skyrim's main quest becomes boring and uninspired pretty quickly. The civil war storyline didn't get anywhere either, nothing you did seemed to have a real impact on the world (10 guys vs. 10 guys battles, faction soldiers not acknowledging your presence outside of the quests themselves, etc). Fallout 3 main questline, as much as some people seem to like it, felt really dull to my taste, leaving you with no choice but to fight the evil evil evil evil Enclave forces, and being extremely clunky in its attempts of sheding favourable light on the protagonist's father, who in the end still looks like an absolute idiot no matter how I try to look at him.

The comparison between F3 and FNV simply shows how Obsidian is actually able to craft a true Fallout game (despite all the flaws it had) and Bethesda is not. With "true Fallout game" I mean a game which respects and follows on the legacy of the old Fallout games, which I played and enjoyed a lot (specially Fallout 2). F3 could have been named The Elder Scrolls Post-Apocalypse for all I care.

So I can't say I'm really excited towards this Fallout 4. I just hope Bethesda manages not to screw up too much, and it ends up being a decent game.

Worst part is when you realize that Obsidian is infamous for poor management and they got such a short amount of time to make their game yet it still shined past what they made.

Man Fallout 3 though... the dialogue. Dad mad at me for nuking Megaton but then just ignoring it, that "you fight the good fight by talking on the radio" being an int test... oh boy.

I'm really hoping that, even if the writing doesn't improve that they at least give the game less of the rush feel of Skyrim. Skyrim's story constantly demands you to progress the story despite the fact there is little interest in doing so and it never really urges you to just travel around and make connections.

My vague recollection of the Brotherhood in Fallout 2 was that the only reason why they were being as nice to you as they were was because you were the descendent of the protagonist of the first Fallout game.

In other news InXile (the guys who made Wasteland 2) are persisting with their claims that they want to make Van Buren. I'm assuming that there's some talks going on behind closed doors, or are they really going to be dumb enough to try and do this without Bethesda's blessing (like the tanked Fallout: Online game)? This could be just a rehash of the old news that was posted here last year, but meh, someone's felt the need to make an article from it. =P

 Wyrmalla wrote:
or are they really going to be dumb enough to try and do this without Bethesda's blessing (like the tanked Fallout: Online game)?

Nothing dumb about it. All that would need to happen is call it Van Buren (the Van Buren name is effectively owned by InXile) while avoiding any explicit Fallout references and there is absolutely nothing that Bethesda can do about it other than have a tantrum. I would be far more interested in a modernised (and actually finished) Van Buren than I ever will be about FO4.

In related News Chris Avellone has announced today that he has left Obsidian so if he was to go an work with Brian Fargo over at InXile...................?

 Wyrmalla wrote:
In other news InXile (the guys who made Wasteland 2) are persisting with their claims that they want to make Van Buren.

If true, that would be fething awesome!

Fallout 3 had its ups and downs...and downs. The entire dad line was actually interesting. I always thought that he'd be dead all along and when I accidentally stumbled into him, I was genuinely surprised.

The ending (vanilla) was just...I sadly cannot find he webcomic going along with it, but it made fun of you being expected to step into that chamber with deadly radiation while your radiation-immune companions just say "Yo, go for it!". Duh.

 BrookM wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
In other news InXile (the guys who made Wasteland 2) are persisting with their claims that they want to make Van Buren.

If true, that would be fething awesome!

Yeah, that's far more exciting then Fallout 4.

 Soladrin wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
In other news InXile (the guys who made Wasteland 2) are persisting with their claims that they want to make Van Buren.

If true, that would be fething awesome!

Yeah, that's far more exciting then Fallout 4.

Having read the design notes more than once, it would be even better than New Vegas and a million sequels combined.

Though if they are doing Van Buren, I feel sads, I already know the plot now.

I can't see them making Van Buren without Bethesda's permission. What would be the point? New Vegas came out so the plot's already been used, and without the iconic setting then it'd just be Wasteland 2. Carry on over the plot of spreading an infection through the player's exploration and the world being nuked again sure. There's too much good faith between the two companies I imagine for InXile to turn around and screw Bethesda by ripping off the setting. If they want to make Van Buren then just have Bethesda's blessing to go forward instead of doing it sneakily. I'm sure it'd be a good game in any case, but I'd dislike that approach.

...Though when it comes to calling it Van Buren I'm seeing that like the weapon from New Vegas "That Gun". They could have called it by its proper name, but everyone just called it "That Gun", so the devs changed its name to the nickname. The whole thing just seems odd to me though. If this does wind up being another Fallout game, even an unofficial one, I'd still be happy to see it, even if I am taking this an opportunity to bitch a bit.

Chris Avellone leaving Obsidian? Now that's news. Damn, he was one of the guys that started them and has been the major player on a lot of their projects. I'm sure others will take over, but without him I'm not sure if his replacement could hit the bar he's set with his games. I suppose its a bit moot though as InXile is also made up of the old Interplay guys, its just a shame. Is this an indication of Van Buren going ahead? Possibly, though plenty of people would be happy to have Chris on their team. I guess the guy wanted to work with them for whatever reason (perhaps as InXile have different aims than Obsidian, so its a bit of change for him) and we'll the fruits of this in the coming years. =P

 Sigvatr wrote:
Fallout 3 had its ups and downs...and downs. The entire dad line was actually interesting. I always thought that he'd be dead all along and when I accidentally stumbled into him, I was genuinely surprised.

The ending (vanilla) was just...I sadly cannot find he webcomic going along with it, but it made fun of you being expected to step into that chamber with deadly radiation while your radiation-immune companions just say "Yo, go for it!". Duh.

And the game ridicules you for sending faux in, despite the fact that he is immune to radiation. I'm sorry if, why is almost definitely killing myself preferable to someone who can't be harmed doing it instead. For feths sake, if you give us a choice, don't attack us for not making the "right" one.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I can't see them making Van Buren without Bethesda's permission. What would be the point?

Well Brian Fargo is still planning on doing it and people would undoubtedly buy it due to its probable pedigree and subject matter. There would inevitably be a fine line between Van Buren and Wasteland 3 though.

Oh yes, the original pre-DLC ending was stupid.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I can't see them making Van Buren without Bethesda's permission. What would be the point?

Well Brian Fargo is still planning on doing it and people would undoubtedly buy it due to its probable pedigree and subject matter. There would inevitably be a fine line between Van Buren and Wasteland 3 though.

Not to mention that there are very few developers I trust more then Brian Fargo.

Run down of the companions in the ending. At least IIRC the DLC changed it so you could send in a companion instead (or Lyons. Hell why couldn't you send in Autumn too? If you managed to speech check him to disarm himself why couldn't he be making the heroic sacrifice to stop the horror he'd created? Instead that guy just wanders off never to be seen again. ...Which is a major loose end. I guess the devs just expected you to shoot him? Not me! No sir, I've played RPGs before and know that speech is more than just a dump stat. ...Ah, even if in Fallout 3 it was totally a dump stat and useless up until that point).

Star Paladin Cross: Hey I loved your dad and would do anything to keep you safe. What sacrifice my life for you? Hell no! ...No not even if I keep going on about how old I am and that I should just die soon anyway!

Butch DeLoria: ....Yeah I can accept that he wants to live and explore the Wasteland. A high enough speech skill says otherwise though. =P

Clover: I'm a brainwashed slaved who'd eat a baby's face off if you told me to. Go into that room and press some buttons when you order me to? Screw you master! *collar explodes*

Sergeant RL-3: I'm a robot who's product line are known for their fine motor skills (ref the Mr Handy from Fallout 2 that you reset a fething Nuclear Reactor with). I'm a robot, so immune to radiation. I guess my circuits have fried or something, or maybe its just because I think you're not American enough. In any case, be a patriot and die for your country soldier!

Jericho: Go in there to die for you? Eat crap dumbass. ...No, not even if you use your speech/strength stat to intimate me, or talking some science mumbo jumbo and convince the dumbass that I am that I somehow won't die in there.

Fawkes: I'm a super mutant that's immune to radiation. However, as I'm written to be some great intellect I think that you killing yourself would be quite poetic. Better for you the great hero to die a martyr now instead of carrying on your work, as obviously you won't be needed again in future at all.

Dogmeat/Dogmeat's Pup: Arf! Hey boy I've spent the whole game playing fetch with you. Now imagine that control panels a piece of meet. Now press each of those buttons in a complex ...ah, screw it Lyons just open the damn door for me.

Charon: I'm a ghoul, so immune to radiation, but also an ass. Even though you own my life and could pretty much tell me to jump off a cliff, I'll disobey you this time, because you guessed it, I'm an ass. Oh you're going in there? Great! Wait you want me to kill myself before you go in, just because you want the satisfaction before you die? Dammit!

You know what could have also worked? A long stick.


You open up the airlock, enter it with the stick, hit the airlock again. Boom, minimal radiation all round.

* Science skill: 100. I reroute the terminal so that it can be activated through the computer I'm standing at here.
* Repair skill: 100. I repair the room's filters and purge the radiation. Obviously the room has these purgers given that there's a button to fill the room with radiation in the first place.
* Endurance 10: I'm such a hard ass that all this radiation just gives me sunburn

And so on... Hey if Obsidian had made that ending they would have had options like that!.

Just a reminder that the bethesda E3 stream is coming up.


It's on their twitch, IIRC.

That a three hour slot that they've booked, or are they taking a half hour/hour to pack up their crap? Phew, 2:30 in the afternoon? How the hell am I going to get out of bed for that!


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Spam, spam, spam spam...

Hour and a half left everybody.

HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE

http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda

Bethesdanet. A site run by Bethesda to act as a host for mods for all their games. ...Or the Steam Modding debacle mk2? I doubt sites like the Nexus will be effected much by this, similar to the impact the Steam Workshop had, but with what little information was said there I'm lukewarm. =P

And back to trawling through all the guff waiting for the Fallout stuff to come out.

Dat Doom tho...

Seemed pretty legit.

They showed off all the weapons by the looks of it. To me it looked pretty meh actually. Pretty much just Rage but with demons.

Dishnonoured 2 however...