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 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
inb4 console peasants claiming the difference between 30 and 60 fps is barely visible and not an actual disadvantage.

In4b people being all smug about ultimately inconsequential things.

Way too late for that...

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
While graphics are not the be all and end all, it's demonstrably true that a higher framerate makes for a better play experience; smoother movement on screen, more responsive control input etc.

And again, I have no issue with consoles being limited to a lower graphics setting. I choose to get a console version (of many games) for reasons other than because of framerate or input method. I am not sure why you are supporting the strawman that console gamers will defend lower graphics settings looking better?

I'm not, I'm supporting the demonstrably correct assertion that publishers & developers tried to sell console gamers the idea that lower framerates were no different than higher framerates and, when that line of argument failed(mostly), now insist they are more "cinematic". "Console gamers" as a group evidently don't buy into that bollocks, but a decent number do, and gaming forums over the last few years are littered with examples.

And the reason why PC gamers care about console specs and features is obvious; developers often cater to consoles in the delusional belief that their game can be the next Madden or CoD and tap into the DudeBros market to make them bajillions of dollars, and that almost always means a worse experience playing on PC. Imagine the positions were reversed, that most games were designed for PC-first regardless of suitability and consoles often only got crappy zero-effort ports with UIs designed for mouse & keyboard and game mechanics/difficulty balanced around M&K input rather than controllers, and that performance was always awful because games had been developed to take full advantage of additional PC horsepower; would console players not feel justifiably annoyed that developers were degrading their experience of the hobby they enjoy based on often misguided greed?

I have multiple games on both PC and console; the number of AAA (or even B or C) titles suffering from these kinds of problems, regardless of which market was "catered" to are minute. It is a massive non-issue touted by certain people as a means of being superior for no particular reason.

Complete nonsense. Hell, there's a totemic example from the developer this thread refers to in the same style as the game it refers to; Skyrim. The UI is designed for use with a controller, the stats system was "streamlined" to appeal to fans of the more action-oriented RPGs that make big money on console platforms, even the draw distance that the engine is capable of is limited by the necessity for it to run on the 360(and that's not a case of them "downgrading" the console experience to fit the hardware - you literally cannot enable more than a handful of additional Cells to load LoDs on the PC without creating exponentially increasing numbers of engine and physics bugs, because they built the engine itself with the limitations of consoles as the ceiling of intended performance, not the baseline). Have a wander back through TotalBiscuit's Port Report video series and you find a litany of games that come to PC with console UIs barely altered, limited menu options, bugs, performance issues and so on.

Besides which, what tiny portion of the PC market has a gaming rig powerful enough to run a brand new game, designed on the latest hardware and driver sets at full power? Perhaps everyone should have a developer rig so that PC games do not have to be crappy gaming rig ports but instead can run in their full splendour?

Oh what utter dross, the idea that you need some monstrous LN2-cooled supercomputer to run most games on High at a good framerate is nonsense, I upgrade on a 5 year cycle normally and it takes until the last of those years before I have to seriously consider turning settings down. This isn't about snobbery or belittling people's choice of platform, you are choosing to interpret pretty mundane criticisms of industry practices as an attack.

PC IS GOOD

NO CONSOLES ARE GOOD

NO PC

NO CONSOLE

PC

CONSOLE

PC

CONSOLE

Enough for christ's sake. This is a fallout 4 thread. If you desperately want to argue PC/Console for new releases, do it in another thread and do it politely. We've seen the arguments for both sides enough here, now we're just going in circles with regards to its relevance to this game.

^ This.

The fact is, programming games for high end PCs alienates a vast majority of the markets.

I'd rather have Fallout 4 that runs at 30FPS on a ps4, than not have it at all.

Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".

While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.

 Psienesis wrote:
Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".

While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.

Yeah but for every great mod (Falskaar for Skyrim for example) you also will inevitably get approximately 100 anime-esque reskin mods or mods with actual bouncing cleavage that is so large in proportion to body size it puts Barbie to shame.

 Psienesis wrote:
Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".

While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.

A game doesnt need mods to be good, thats why.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".

While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.

Yeah but for every great mod (Falskaar for Skyrim for example) you also will inevitably get approximately 100 anime-esque reskin mods or mods with actual bouncing cleavage that is so large in proportion to body size it puts Barbie to shame.

You say that like it's a bad thing...


But, seriously, it is exactly the content like Falskaar that makes the mods so worthwhile and seeing players take small bits of what Bethesda put into the game and run with it to make something truly grand or take it in completely new and different ways. Heck, Hearthfires exists because of a player-mod for Oblivion that permitted basically the same thing, and there's another mod for Skyrim that leverages the scripting engine of Hearthfires to permit you to custom-build your house anywhere in the outside world that you desire.

A game doesnt need mods to be good, thats why.

You're right, it doesn't. Vanilla FO3, FONV and Skyrim are all good games. Add mods? They're fethin' *great* games.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".

While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.

A game doesnt need mods to be good, thats why.

But why just play a good game, when you can turn a good game into a great game? And mods effectively give you infinite content, for as long as the community lasts.

Skyrim ith mods didnt win game of the year.
Skyrim did

Doesn't mean it can't be better.

I really like the direct acknowledgement of a Mod warning to stop the PC vs Consoles discussion, followed by immediately carrying it on.

This is a Fallout 4 thread, not a PC vs Consoles thread, or Mods vs Vanilla, or whatever it's descended into, and if everyone wants it to stay unlocked it might help to actually keep to the topic.

To bring the thread back on topic. Aside from the dog and possible robot companions. What sort would you like to see? And what mechanics would you like them to add to make companions more interesting?


Also, let's take guesses as to what the overall objectives will be.

I look forward to playing FO4, I dont want any mods, hacks or stupid unlimited health/infinite carry hacks that the PC gamers love to use to make the game easier.

I just want to play the game as the developers released it, on a console.

Oh and I still play 80's and 90's era games, not because they are 30/60 fps or optimized for high end PC gaming, I play them because they are good, enthralling games

I'd want better AI from the Companions, to include actual storylines with them. Similar to what appeared in FONV but was sadly missing from Skyrim, and was basically absent from FO3. Ideally, they will steal a page from Bioware and Dragon Age 3, which had some incredible character moments with the various companions you could bring, including some really tough decisions at certain points that could affect your standing with the companion, positively or negatively, while inversely affecting the Inquisition's readiness and abilities (like the Iron Bull storyline).

I also want them to remove that g-d Essential flag. Put it back like it was in Morrowind. If it breathes (or even if it doesn't) you can kill it... or maybe something else can. There should be no immortal children, companions, quest-givers, NPCs, or anything of the sort. The Wastelands are a violent, dangerous place... mouth off to the wrong guy/gal, get shot in the face.

Make it an M-rated game along the lines of DA? Maybe, possibly, if it's done right and well. One aspect I found interesting about the Wasteland of Fallout 3 was Paradise Falls, a camp of slavers run by a black man. I thought that was a rather creative subverting of the trope, and the storyline involving the Lincoln Memorial and the anti-slaver band there was pretty interesting.

As far as sources of Companions go? I'd like to see some Companions available not just based on your Karma rating, but also with your various standings with different factions. Like, you might be a complete tool, but in good with the Brotherhood of Steel, so a third party, who strongly dislike the Brotherhood, might not offer you the opportunity to get their Companion character... or, alternately, maybe they will, only to require you to later betray either the Brotherhood or that Companion later on down the line.

Or that certain companions don't get along with other companions. Why the rest of the FONV party got along so well with Veronica, decked out in her Brotherhood PA and wielding a Fisto! and a plasma pistol never made sense to me.

We've already talked about Dogmeat. I am sure there will be a Brotherhood of Steel option. How about the Followers of the Apocalypse? The Children of the Atom? How about the Outcasts? Any one of the various Raider tribes? I'm sure there will be at least 1 Ghoul and a Super-Mutant. How about another Sgt. Gutsy? Or a character similar to the android from Rivet City? Given what we know about the game, I'm certain androids will play a big part of the story, as will the line between "human" and "more human than human".

I was actually pretty fond of the character Bittercup from FO3. Shoot, you could even establish a whole mini-tribe of various people who are all weirdos, social outcasts and similar sorts. Seems like Achievement Bait just waiting to be picked up.

I never modded a Fallout game, unlike the Elder Scrolls series, aside from hi-def models.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
To bring the thread back on topic. Aside from the dog and possible robot companions. What sort would you like to see? And what mechanics would you like them to add to make companions more interesting?

I'd like the companions to work more like Serana from Skyrim's Dawnguard expansion, so they feel more like real people. Have them comment on the places you take them or the weather while you're there. Have some of them get impatient if you're standing around (not crouching) and do something to break the tedium. Have a Brotherhood Paladin who refuses to wear stealthier gear until they trust you better, or someone whose carrying capacity increases as they get to know you and have less objections to helping you carry stuff. Give them opinions about various subjects and deep dialogue trees. Maybe have one who likes to says hello whenever you come across a caravan merchant. Random stuff like that that makes them feel less like kill-bots.

Well, I'm definitely going to have E-DE whether I have to mod him in or not, but I second them having their own storylines. I'd like them to expand upon what obsidian did, to give them decent questlines.
And give them personalities like obsidian did too, have them comment on surroundings, ect, have them groan or complain if you do stuff they don't like. Give their dialogue individuality as well.

 MangoMadness wrote:
I look forward to playing FO4, I dont want any mods, hacks or stupid unlimited health/infinite carry hacks that the PC gamers love to use to make the game easier.

I just want to play the game as the developers released it, on a console.

Oh and I still play 80's and 90's era games, not because they are 30/60 fps or optimized for high end PC gaming, I play them because they are good, enthralling games

I find that offensive, you make it seem like project navada, or EWE, or FOOK gave us god mode/instabgib powers. Sure there are cheat mods out there, but they're not gonna automatically be installed. Those cheat mods are literally a case of "don't like, don't use". They're there for those that want 'em, and no one else. Hell, on PC you can already use the console to do that!

 thedarkavenger wrote:
To bring the thread back on topic. Aside from the dog and possible robot companions. What sort would you like to see? And what mechanics would you like them to add to make companions more interesting?


Also, let's take guesses as to what the overall objectives will be.

From what I've heard (again, can't remember where, but it fits with the location of the game), it'll be more focused on social classes/castes struggles of androids vs human creators, with humans wanting to have them enslaved, and the Railroad (yes, the one from FO3) working to free them. Not really sure how the BoS will play into it, other than androids are pretty high tech, but I could see them on both sides (working with the railroad to give themselves a chance to capture a few/grab the original tech, or against for the exact same reasons).

As for companions, deathclaw/cazador :3 ? Nah, that'd be broken as feth, I'll either end up using the dog, either through nostalgia for dogmeats, but it'll probably come down to what perks they offer/combat power, i.e. in FO:NV, I always took Boon and EDE to pretty much know where all enemies are at all times. Obviously, we'll be seeing a dog, an android, and some human/ghoul companions, but I'm hoping for different animal/pet companions too, along with a super mutant or two. Maybe a centaur even? (they're just so cute! /sarcasm)

 Psienesis wrote:
I also want them to remove that g-d Essential flag. Put it back like it was in Morrowind. If it breathes (or even if it doesn't) you can kill it... or maybe something else can. There should be no immortal children, companions, quest-givers, NPCs, or anything of the sort. The Wastelands are a violent, dangerous place... mouth off to the wrong guy/gal, get shot in the face.

I like the way New Vegas handled it. There were no essential NPCs in the game and while the children were unkillable there were no children at all that you wanted to attack. In New Vegas they were always polite to the player, unlike Fallout 3 and Skyrim. Of course, Oliver and Lanius don't exist in the game till you get to their parts and Yes Man respawns but I'm still happy with how they dealt with having to tell a story.

Aye the way Bethesda handles NPC deaths tends to be rather poor. They seem to want to hold your hand and instead of just letting the player deal with doing something stupid and killing an important NPC they say, "oh there pet, look all better now". Though it'd help in say Skyrim if they didn't spawn dragons on important NPCs all the time too... Yes Morrowind's line "the thread of prophecy is broken. Reload your save now or carry on in the doom world you've created" was great, especially because you could still complete the game anyway in a few cases. Having NPCs die influence the player's story. "Hey I just did this awesome quest with this guy", "You did? Huh, I think he was was dead in my game" or "there was this criminal guy who really got on my nerves. Sure he wanted me to do a load of crap for him, but I just stabbed him in the face instead".

Bleh, another thing Obsidian handled better yes.

Edit: and don't start me on the attitude that some people have about mods liking them to cheating. Apparently because they're not released by the developer, who would charge from a few quid to £20 for them had they, that invalidates them entirely. I remember one guy at college who said that to me and I was just so utterly confused by his viewpoint. Mods just add more content and depth to games. Sure there's cheat ones out there, but regard them as DLC just made by third parties. The quality of course varies, but its a bit insulting to the mod community to say that their purpose is to break the game. ...If adding a ton of useless clutter items, prettying up the graphics or adding a new quest is broken then ...well whatever doesn't matter to those people because they aren't playing those mods in the first place apparently. Meanwhile I'll sit here with my couple of dozen gigs sized mod folder.

The biggest problem with killable quest NPC is they can also be killed by monsters or other NPCs. That is fething frustrating.

Maybe they can make it so that essential NPCs can't be killed by anyone except the player? That way it leaves you in control over what you miss and doesn't screw up the game.

I cant wait to see new vaults TBH

 MangoMadness wrote:
I look forward to playing FO4, I dont want any mods, hacks or stupid unlimited health/infinite carry hacks that the PC gamers love to use to make the game easier.

I just want to play the game as the developers released it, on a console.

Oh and I still play 80's and 90's era games, not because they are 30/60 fps or optimized for high end PC gaming, I play them because they are good, enthralling games

Really? Almost all the mods I download in FO3, NV, and Skyrim are to make the game more challenging. I mean seriously, none of those games are particular challenging vanilla.

One option for essential npcs could be to make it impossiblie to kill them in one hit. If youd kill them, they kneel or something to tell you, "this guy is important". And then you can finish them off, if you want.

I'd like companions to not be as bloody stupid as they are in FO3, running straight into the path of my fire, or running off into the distance to attack an enemy I havent even clocked yet.

As for killable NPCs Im all for it. As long, as has been said, they are not just randomly murdered by other NPCs or monsters with no chance of being saved.

Could pull a Baldur's Gate and bring out the understudy to say his lines if you kill an important NPC

Maybe I'm just weird, but I've never felt the need to MURDER EVERYONE in my playthroughs. Even when I play an evil character, it's just not something that's come up.

Do you not even just go ballistic sometimes when a character really, relaly annoys you and you just stab them in the face?

Just me?

 Pete Melvin wrote:
Do you not even just go ballistic sometimes when a character really, relaly annoys you and you just stab them in the face?

Just me?

Yep, just you. You might need to get those anger issues checked out...