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Scott appeared on the Palladium forums to confirm that there will be Robotech at the open house. I imagine those games will be a rather grim affair? Maybe they can make a few dollars live streaming the sadness or delusion.

Alpharius Walks wrote:
Scott appeared on the Palladium forums to confirm that there will be Robotech at the open house. I imagine those games will be a rather grim affair? Maybe they can make a few dollars live streaming the sadness or delusion.

the Open House is not after the end of the license? that seems to be really awkward to do demo and/or tourney for a game you're not suppose to sell anymore...

Morgan Vening wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Backers need to stay focused on this part:

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

and ask for the 'refund' that KS says they're due.

And quite a few backers* have received.

"As such, we cannot offer you a refund at this time. If the time should ever come that Palladium Books cannot fulfill the terms of our Kickstarter project, we will of course offer refunds, as we would be required to do by Kickstarter."

I don't see any caveats there.

* Myself included, in a message from March 20, 2014, days after SpartanGate and months before all money is claimed to have been spent.

Well, there you go.

Per KS *AND* PB/KS, you're now free and clear to request refunds, and not have to take them in the form of product you don't want.

This will be...interesting.

Alpharius Walks wrote:
Scott appeared on the Palladium forums to confirm that there will be Robotech at the open house. I imagine those games will be a rather grim affair? Maybe they can make a few dollars live streaming the sadness or delusion.

I suspect Palladium Books needs all the draw they can get, soon to be lost IP or not.
Like many things with them, I think they underestimate how much Robotech brought them some consumer attention and for a brief time made them "relevant" again.
I think it can safely be said that PB would have never seen over a million dollars with any other IP.
Ah well, it will be some kind of ending at least.

I doubled-down on some of my Robotech stuff but at least I can mess with it and not feel any tweak of obligation to the "official" rules... not that many cared anyway.

Here's a message I got in 2014, asking for a refund, emphasis mine. I'm sure many of us got it. :

Dear D***,

We share your frustration and apologize for the unfortunate delay. Palladium Books has been working tirelessly to bring Robotech® fans a superior product. Progress is being made and we are moving toward manufacturing of the First Wave of releases.

Please understand, as a Kickstarter backer, you have not purchased or pre-ordered a product. You have “supported a project” in exchange for a promise of a reward. That reward had an original estimated delivery date which has passed, but that date was always an estimate, not a guaranteed deadline.

By Kickstarter’s terms of service, we are obligated to deliver on the rewards we have promised, and we will do that. We are currently working toward doing just that.

As such, we cannot offer you a refund at this time. If the time should ever come that Palladium Books cannot fulfill the terms of our Kickstarter project, we will of course offer refunds, as we would be required to do by Kickstarter.

In the meantime, please be patient. We appreciate your support of the project, and your pledge will help us to produce a fantastic product that we think everyone will enjoy.

With Appreciation,
The Palladium Books Team

I have this strange suspicion that PB’s license with HG actually ended Jan 1 (and they were aware of this in Dec, thus the lack of updates from Scott), and they’ve been in a grace period to unload dead stock since the start of the year, and that grace period ends at the end of March (a 3-month period) - probably at the demand of HG after failed attempts to re-negotiation an extension. I’d be likely to bet that the missing update (#215?) was going to address the issue, but was canned for whatever reason.

Has anyone actually e-mailed PB with the above refund quote asking for a refund? Have they responded?

I deleted my Kickstarter account, so I can’t “message” them that way, but I’m wondering if it’s worth bugging them via direct e-mail for a refund.

Stuff like this needs to be posted in the KS Comments section and (if you want) the Facebook group to bolster the stance of the consumers and rattle more sabres.

Palladium, Kevin, and KS need to be reminded of this AD NAUSEUM.

I know kevin posted thath pie chart breaking down the costs, but it does not fit the figures he posted in the actual update for wave 1. According to the text there was some $900k left, that somehow was lost when wave one completed as he states in absolute terms that after wave one the kickstarter funds were exhausted. The chart makes sense if you add in costs for the non existent wave 2.

Might just be me but has kevin combined actual and proposed costs to make up the sum, while spending oodles on retail product to sell (a no no)and to fund other PB product.

In return we can now exchange missing goods at wholesale rates and pay full retail on the goods in replacement, oh and for me add another $160 for the pleasure of them sending me stuff I do not want. Er no thanks, I will be asking for a pro rated cash refund, I thnk.

Just me but is it just too coincidental that the KS banner paged went down (bad link malware) and then Kevin announces that the project is over. How many people clicked that link for the first time in years today trying to work out what they are owed?

My only reaction to this since I told so many people 2.5 years ago this was going to happen?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 jaymz wrote:
My only reaction to this since I told so many people 2.5 years ago this was going to happen?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Well, like I said last night, I knew it was coming someday.... like a sick pet, you don't want to believe it when it happens.

At first I was LIVID, but mostly about the Swap thing and the absolute HUGE BALLS it took for him to post that.

Today, I'm just sitting back and laughing while fanning the flames.

I'm everywhere... here, Reddit, Facebook, KS, Twitter, anything I can find. I'm hitting up AG's, the FTC, ANYONE I can find to message.

The fire must be white hot and the flames seen from space.

Well, as noted above, multiple times, including here:

 HudsonD wrote:
Here's a message I got in 2014, asking for a refund, emphasis mine. I'm sure many of us got it. :

Dear D***,

We share your frustration and apologize for the unfortunate delay. Palladium Books has been working tirelessly to bring Robotech® fans a superior product. Progress is being made and we are moving toward manufacturing of the First Wave of releases.

Please understand, as a Kickstarter backer, you have not purchased or pre-ordered a product. You have “supported a project” in exchange for a promise of a reward. That reward had an original estimated delivery date which has passed, but that date was always an estimate, not a guaranteed deadline.

By Kickstarter’s terms of service, we are obligated to deliver on the rewards we have promised, and we will do that. We are currently working toward doing just that.

As such, we cannot offer you a refund at this time. If the time should ever come that Palladium Books cannot fulfill the terms of our Kickstarter project, we will of course offer refunds, as we would be required to do by Kickstarter.

In the meantime, please be patient. We appreciate your support of the project, and your pledge will help us to produce a fantastic product that we think everyone will enjoy.

With Appreciation,
The Palladium Books Team

Per KS' rules AND PB's own admission - and understanding of those rules - PB will give refunds to those that ask for them.

Well, if they can.

Maybe they're hoping that many (most?) will take Wave 1 stock of a now dead game instead, but p[personally, I'd opt for the cash refund they are obligated to offer instead.

at that point, they're buying time before thay can't even swap RTT products anymore...this is their only asset available and that's until the end of march...

And if they can come clean with legit numbers that show they've blown through most of the funds, AND that they didn't misappropriate anything, I could see some reasonable middle ground. "We cannot pay back pro-rated refunds, let alone full refunds, but we can distribute remaining resources along with profits from selling remaining wave one stock at a steep discount, and offer X% to backers who desire it."

Yes, yes, legal gloom and doom, nobody would take it, whatever. I'm talking to those who aren't frothing at the mouth here. If they said "we can return 50% of Pledge Manager wave 2 items" and my $426 dollars owed turned into $100, would I be happy? Not really, but it'd be closer to making good on what is owed than expecting me to pay $50-100+ in shipping, taxes, and duties, for stock I don't want and they just hope to avoid throwing out.

IF they proved that this was just a mess, that mistakes were made but they didn't try to walk off with half a million in leftover cash and whatnot, IF they were transparent enough to meet some reasonable middle ground, I could see there being the potential to have a 'pennies on the dollar, this is what we can do' situation unfold.

I don't think that will happen, I think that ship has sailed, and they seem unwilling to try such a compromise, but it's what comes to mind as an outcome that could have been reached in a more ideal world than the one we're living in.

Let's save the 'oh Forar, you don't really think that they would _____' caveats and hot takes. I'm expressing a hypothetical, and surely us literate and ostensibly intelligent gaming types can recognize it as such.

I wouldn't even mind taking a swap of Wave 1 product in place of the remaining rewards...if they hadn't given such a ridiculous and insulting exchange rate.

I'm with Forar to a point. I definitely want to see where the money went.

I might cave if they gave me half my money and the other half in toys, at their discounted/wholesale value.



[Edit] In the comments section of the KS, people are posting they are invoicing Palladium via Paypal for their refund.

 TalonZahn wrote:
In the comments section of the KS, people are posting they are invoicing Palladium via Paypal for their refund.

Niice!

OK, I sent them an invoice via Paypal as well.

I added their own Email as a note/memo reminding them that they let us know they will offer refunds if they couldn't fulfill.

I also put this at the bottom under Terms and Conditions:

"You will receive an updated invoice every 30 days with an updated total. After 2 months, if you still haven’t paid, you will be reported to the credit agencies for non payment."

 jul wrote:
Can someone explain to me what Bad_Syntax is....

A special person who ordered infinity billion Battle Cry pledges, was going to personally show up at Gen Con and hit Kevin in the face because he was so full of rage, but eventually was given 2 of the first 3 boxes to make it to the USA and became Kevin's best friend forever.

I may be figured a fool but I will take the exchange with a clear means of retracting the funds if they pull any funny business.
Main thing I figure is: they need to get rid of stock one way or another.
Having me off the books is that bit less liability to deal with especially if any legal matters gain traction.
I still have a use for the models and can always expand my Battletech forces.

Exciting times.
Wonder how long it will take for PB to purge all things Robotech from their communication?
Cut and paste has been going on so long I am unsure they read the walls of text they produce.

Merijeek wrote:

 jul wrote:
Can someone explain to me what Bad_Syntax is....

A special person who ordered infinity billion Battle Cry pledges, was going to personally show up at Gen Con and hit Kevin in the face because he was so full of rage, but eventually was given 2 of the first 3 boxes to make it to the USA and became Kevin's best friend forever.

I see....

and the other end, it's been very quiet on the palladium forum lately...

 TalonZahn wrote:
OK, I sent them an invoice via Paypal as well.

I added their own Email as a note/memo reminding them that they let us know they will offer refunds if they couldn't fulfill.

I also put this at the bottom under Terms and Conditions:

"You will receive an updated invoice every 30 days with an updated total. After 2 months, if you still haven’t paid, you will be reported to the credit agencies for non payment."

60 days is fair notice, BTW.

Credit Agencies note late payment starting at 30 days overdue

I find your Avatar distracting but enjoyable.

For me, the Paypal thing is more of a way to annoy them every so often with a reminder for me to do so.

So I guess we know why they went from “We’ll never do an Open House again” to “Let’s have one in April!!!”. Let the begging and pleading sobs for cash to keep Good ‘Ol Kev from going bankrupt begin!

 jaymz wrote:
My only reaction to this since I told so many people 2.5 years ago this was going to happen?
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Precious little anyone could do with that information other than wait for it to happen.
I find little humor in it: PB is not closing their doors.
I am sure as far as Kevin is concerned it is business as usual.
He didn't like Robotech anyway...

 Forar wrote:
And if they can come clean with legit numbers that show they've blown through most of the funds, AND that they didn't misappropriate anything, I could see some reasonable middle ground. "We cannot pay back pro-rated refunds, let alone full refunds, but we can distribute remaining resources along with profits from selling remaining wave one stock at a steep discount, and offer X% to backers who desire it."

Yes, yes, legal gloom and doom, nobody would take it, whatever. I'm talking to those who aren't frothing at the mouth here. If they said "we can return 50% of Pledge Manager wave 2 items" and my $426 dollars owed turned into $100, would I be happy? Not really, but it'd be closer to making good on what is owed than expecting me to pay $50-100+ in shipping, taxes, and duties, for stock I don't want and they just hope to avoid throwing out.

IF they proved that this was just a mess, that mistakes were made but they didn't try to walk off with half a million in leftover cash and whatnot, IF they were transparent enough to meet some reasonable middle ground, I could see there being the potential to have a 'pennies on the dollar, this is what we can do' situation unfold.

I don't think that will happen, I think that ship has sailed, and they seem unwilling to try such a compromise, but it's what comes to mind as an outcome that could have been reached in a more ideal world than the one we're living in.

Let's save the 'oh Forar, you don't really think that they would _____' caveats and hot takes. I'm expressing a hypothetical, and surely us literate and ostensibly intelligent gaming types can recognize it as such.

Sailed? Pretty sure that ship was torpedoed.

What did I just say about hot takes?

C'mon, work with me here! :-P

On a related aside, the people submitting paypal invoices for their MIA stuff strikes me as really funny.

"How much have we recieved so far?"

"Eight hundred dollars. We have also received invoices totaling two hundred thousand dollars."

I requested a refund via KS messenger, and will also send an invoice to them if I don't hear from them in the next day or so.

I tweeted Tycho and Gabe at Penny Arcade.... got a "what the Hell?!" response.

I look forward to the impending comic.

 judgedoug wrote:
I requested a refund via KS messenger, and will also send an invoice to them if I don't hear from them in the next day or so.

Send the invoice ASAP. If they pay FIFO, you don't want to be last...

That Dilbert mashup from a few posts back was perfect...