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It Is my desicion the mighty op to give starwars an chance, they gain the following as allies. all of the forces from any stargate movie or t.v series and they also gain all of starcraft

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Of course they can. So long as a sentient creature with the belief that they exist goes somewhere so, too, does the Warp go with them.

Um I don't think that's correct. If that were true than every species in 40k with a pantheon would literally have their own warp gods as well. As well as embodiments of ideals such as the sith and jedi( rule of emotions vs strict control over onesconscious))

They do. Every sentient species in the galaxy that believes in gods has created those gods in the Warp.

There's the Great Four, there's the Eldar Gods (those that are still alive, anyway), there's the God-Emperor of Mankind, there's the "lesser" Chaos gods, like Malal, there's Gork and Mork... and a bazillion Xenos gods that we may know as various Daemon Princes or guises of Tzeentch or other names for Khorne or any one of a million other things.

Those embodiments of ideals? They call them Daemons in 40k. The most-powerful of those ideals? They become the Gods of the Warp.

I don't understand how some of you guys can even compare the two universes. I have been an avid reader and movie watcher of star wars and I have just started getting into warhammer and I can tell y ou right now. Star Wars does not stand a chance..First and foremost let's compare the normal human forces. The Astra Militarum wins on sheer numbers alone and their firepower is rediculous. the empire and the rebel alliance could not stand a chance. But let's say for the sake of argument that they give the imperial guard a run for their money. Now we bring in the special forces. Let's pit the forces of Chaos against the Sith Army. Tell me guys... When was the last time a Sith Lord summoned a Demon. We could pit the space marines against the Jedi. I think the space marines would run through them because from what I have seen, the Force is truly no comparison to the powers of the warp. But let's give the Jedi the benefit of the doubt and say they can hold their own against the Astartes. what will they do against the Grey Knights who are essentially space marine Jedi. A grey knight is a super soldier with vast psionic powers. Picture the strength of the hulk, with the mental powers of Prof. X and Jean grey and the tactical genius of Batman. and on top of that. THEY KNOW NO FEAR!!! I'm sorry, Warhammer vs. Star Wars. Not even a match. Maybe if star wars teamed up with Halo and battlestar galactica they would stand a small chance. And that was just 2 forces of the imperium. I didn't mention the Sisters of battle, the adeptus machanicus, the inquisition. and all the heretics and xenos WH40k can throw at them. No contest.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Here's the thing I think of, biggest gun (That' I'm aware of, as I've only heard of the Sun Crusher and haven't read a book or actually SEEN it...) is the Death Star in Star Wars

On 40k's side...there is a metric feth ton of planet busters, but excluding the Blackstone Fortress for a sec, I'd have to point out Abaddon's Planet Killer.

Now the Death Star, is point at something, charge up, fire, something explodes.

The Planet Killer on the other hand fires a ship, cuts it in half, hits the next ship cuts it in half, and THEN hits a planet and tears it's core out in a massive explosion.

Plus the Planet Killer is a like a ballerina compared to the Death Star.

Not to mention the SIZE of just the Imperium's ship alone is redonkulessly big compared to the Star Wars ships.

Star Wars can hold it's own, but I think their universe would burn in the flames of war just like every other faction.

That said on the side of HEROES I think most the Jedi and Sith can beat most of the characters in 40k. I'll take Luke Skywalker over Draigo, and though there is temptation I'd take Vader over Abby.

Wat

Star Wars characters are laughably compared to their 40K counterparts. Unlike Jedi, 40K psykers go straight for the "melt the enemy down to goo" attack, while due to ethical concerns Jedi almost never jump to such violent attacks. Skywalker for example would be pasted by pretty much any Grey Knight in the opening exchange of attacks, with Luke probably heading for a powerful, but nonlethal kinetic push while the Grey Knight skips right to boiling all the blood in his body or vaporiizng him with an intense burst of heat.

Lruss40k wrote:
I don't understand how some of you guys can even compare the two universes. I have been an avid reader and movie watcher of star wars and I have just started getting into warhammer and I can tell y ou right now. Star Wars does not stand a chance..First and foremost let's compare the normal human forces. The Astra Militarum wins on sheer numbers alone and their firepower is rediculous. the empire and the rebel alliance could not stand a chance. But let's say for the sake of argument that they give the imperial guard a run for their money. Now we bring in the special forces. Let's pit the forces of Chaos against the Sith Army. Tell me guys... When was the last time a Sith Lord summoned a Demon. We could pit the space marines against the Jedi. I think the space marines would run through them because from what I have seen, the Force is truly no comparison to the powers of the warp. But let's give the Jedi the benefit of the doubt and say they can hold their own against the Astartes. what will they do against the Grey Knights who are essentially space marine Jedi. A grey knight is a super soldier with vast psionic powers. Picture the strength of the hulk, with the mental powers of Prof. X and Jean grey and the tactical genius of Batman. and on top of that. THEY KNOW NO FEAR!!! I'm sorry, Warhammer vs. Star Wars. Not even a match. Maybe if star wars teamed up with Halo and battlestar galactica they would stand a small chance. And that was just 2 forces of the imperium. I didn't mention the Sisters of battle, the adeptus machanicus, the inquisition. and all the heretics and xenos WH40k can throw at them. No contest.

( I gave them all of the stargate universe and starcraft, i might add my little pony for bright colourful meat shields.)

 Happyjew wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
GW's policy is that everything is valid, and that's where their care ends.

I'm curious if you have a quote for that. The only thing I can find regarding 40K canon is on 1d4chan, which states

Games Workshop's official stance is that all of the fluff is told by an unreliable narrator, and is therefore true and false at the same time. This is so they can sell you multiple stories and products without having to wade through 25 years worth of bs. This frustrates and annoys fa/tg/uys, who pull a fit every time their comic book collection gets even slightly out of order.

However, it's pretty common practice in most large franchises. This stance actually allows individuals to have their own 'personal canon', but of course, people don't see it that way and instead want their galaxy sweeping, massively scaled space opera to be detailed right down to how many pubic hairs Roboute Guilliman has.

Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 have continuity and consistency, but nothing can be truly described as canon, as the powers that be never set anything in stone. Or to put it another way, Space Marines look a certain way and behave along certain guidelines, but exact details change depending on who is telling the story. On the other hand, some authors have truly taken the piss with this policy, such as Captain C.S. MULTI-LAZOR.

http://www.boomtron.com/2011/03/grimdark-ii-loose-canon/

So why is it you just get to change the rules on the fly?

 curran12 wrote:
So why is it you just get to change the rules on the fly?

( im the origianal poster, and their right i need to balance out the rules, and no im not an starwars fanboy or anything.)

What. No that is dumb. Keep it as is. So we can get rid of these pointless threads.

alright.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do you guys mind coming over to this fun thread.

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2670/563664.page#7898924 )

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think you missed the part where he said all of the 40k universe. All of it. Necrons, Eldar, Tau, Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks.

No, I saw that, and my original comments are still accurate. Low-end 40k loses horribly, high-end 40k puts up a fight but eventually loses because of idiotic leadership. High-end 40k hardware can match Star Wars stuff 1v1, but doesn't have enough of an advantage to offset the fact the sheer incompetence that those weapons are used with.

There is no way that a bunch of panzies with energy swords can beat a tyranid hive fleet.

And your point is? The jedi are just symbolic warrior-monks, not a major military force. Unlike the Imperium the Star Wars factions would not be stupid enough to lose to an enemy that is easily killed by WMDs.

You keep coming up with this bogus that there is ww2 equipment in the 40k arsenal when they aren't.

I didn't say there was WWII equipment, I said there was equipment that makes WWII equipment look like god-like magic. AKA 90% of the imperial guard, most space marine vehicles, space battleships with slave crews hauling on ropes to aim the cannons, etc. Giving most IG armies WWII tanks/artillery/etc would be a pretty significant improvement.

Also the bit about the culture. It is a stupid series of books to me. And it doesn't fit what I would call good science fiction. I don't particular enjoy science fiction or fiction for that matter where the main characters have access to incredibly powerful weaponry that only gods can use. If a character has the power to literally think something into existance there is no conflict there is no interest, there is nothing that ties me to those characters. Hence why I hate any book like that.

And, I repeat, you have no taste. And if you think there is no conflict in the books because they have really big guns then you clearly never read them.

Wasn't the Empire Defeated by a bunch of teens dropping a bomb into a small thermal exhaust port?
Prior to that wasn't the republic backed by an army of 3 million - 18 billion clone troopers and possibly a hundred or so Jedi?
How does that defeat the limitless armies of the IoM, Orks, Tyranids, Demons?
When you have the Eldar/Necron who have advanced weapons that manipulate the universe itself? I don't see any scenario where Yoda's skull isn't hanging on a lucky stick or Darth Vader isn't turned into a servitor.

Even if we give the Sith/Jedi the force and keep the Warp. It's more or less the same thing. If anything the warp is more violent and deadly as you can bend reality/the universe.

The only way SW can hold it's own (not even win) would be if there was infighting within the 40k forces. Otherwise ANY one faction can destroy the entire Star wars universe.

Would love the see a simulation done though based on cannon (or as best as one can get) numbers/facts based on the lore and stories of both.

 Inkubas wrote:
Wasn't the Empire Defeated by a bunch of teens dropping a bomb into a small thermal exhaust port?
Prior to that wasn't the republic backed by an army of 3 million clone troopers and possibly a hundred or so Jedi?
How does that defeat the limitless armies of the IoM, Orks, Tyranids, Demons?
When you have the Eldar/Necron who have advanced weapons that manipulate the universe itself? I don't see any scenario where Yoda's skull isn't hanging on a lucky stick or Darth Vader isn't turned into a servitor.

Even if we give the Sith/Jedi the force and keep the Warp. It's more or less the same thing. If anything the warp is more violent and deadly as you can bend reality/the universe.

The only way SW can hold it's own (not even win) would be if there was infighting within the 40k forces. Otherwise ANY one faction can destroy the entire Star wars universe.

Would love the see a simulation done though based on cannon (or as best as one can get) numbers/facts based on the lore and stories of both.

I could figure something out.

 Inkubas wrote:
Wasn't the Empire Defeated by a bunch of teens dropping a bomb into a small thermal exhaust port?

No. One weapon was destroyed, but the Empire built another one within a few years.

Prior to that wasn't the republic backed by an army of 3 million - 18 billion clone troopers and possibly a hundred or so Jedi?

No. The clones supplemented the Republic's existing military, but that's it. And the jedi were leaders and religious/political symbols, not common soldiers. Plus, if you want to talk about scale issues, remember how the Imperium has about a million space marines (smaller than the all-volunteer peacetime US military of 2015)?

How does that defeat the limitless armies of the IoM, Orks, Tyranids, Demons?

By shooting them from orbit? Having limitless armies doesn't help much if your enemy has no reason to fight those armies. Remember that, unlike the various 40k factions, Star Wars has reliable FTL capable of crossing the entire galaxy within hours, days at most. It doesn't matter how many guardsmen you have if a fleet of star destroyers is busy turning all of your key planets into spheres of glass.

When you have the Eldar/Necron who have advanced weapons that manipulate the universe itself?

Given that the Eldar and Necrons are regularly defeated by much less advanced factions it's a safe assumption that the supposed "manipulating the universe itself" and other high-end claims are arrogant boasting, not truth.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Inkubas wrote:
Wasn't the Empire Defeated by a bunch of teens dropping a bomb into a small thermal exhaust port?

No. One weapon was destroyed, but the Empire built another one within a few years.

Prior to that wasn't the republic backed by an army of 3 million - 18 billion clone troopers and possibly a hundred or so Jedi?

No. The clones supplemented the Republic's existing military, but that's it. And the jedi were leaders and religious/political symbols, not common soldiers. Plus, if you want to talk about scale issues, remember how the Imperium has about a million space marines (smaller than the all-volunteer peacetime US military of 2015)?

How does that defeat the limitless armies of the IoM, Orks, Tyranids, Demons?

By shooting them from orbit? Having limitless armies doesn't help much if your enemy has no reason to fight those armies. Remember that, unlike the various 40k factions, Star Wars has reliable FTL capable of crossing the entire galaxy within hours, days at most. It doesn't matter how many guardsmen you have if a fleet of star destroyers is busy turning all of your key planets into spheres of glass.

When you have the Eldar/Necron who have advanced weapons that manipulate the universe itself?

Given that the Eldar and Necrons are regularly defeated by much less advanced factions it's a safe assumption that the supposed "manipulating the universe itself" and other high-end claims are arrogant boasting, not truth.

Necrons regularly defeated? You're not serious are you?

The Clones didn't "supplement" any pre-existing military. The GAR was the clones with some small number of non-clone logistical personnel, and that was it. The Jedi also were peaceful diplomats no longer during the Clone Wars, with the Knights and Masters taking up titles as Generals and Commanders of the various Clone Trooper battalions and legions.

 Wyzilla wrote:
The Clones didn't "supplement" any pre-existing military.

So you're seriously going to try to argue that the Republic had no military until the clones were delivered? TBH that means that 40k is even more hopelessly screwed, since the Star Wars side has the ability to manufacture whole fleets of ships overnight and can easily win a battle of attrition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Necrons regularly defeated? You're not serious are you?

Sorry, I guess I missed the part of the fluff where the Necrons never lose. Oh wait, that fluff doesn't exist.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
The Clones didn't "supplement" any pre-existing military.

So you're seriously going to try to argue that the Republic had no military until the clones were delivered? TBH that means that 40k is even more hopelessly screwed, since the Star Wars side has the ability to manufacture whole fleets of ships overnight and can easily win a battle of attrition.

They did, but it was utterly minimal and did not play a major part in the Clone Wars. At best they were behind the scenes supplying everyone and sitting in offices while keeping the paperwork flowing. At worst they simply didn't exist.

Also, those ships weren't manufactured overnight, nor were the ships. The entire plot and point of AOTC was that Palpatine set into motion the creation of the GAR a decade or more in advance.

I'm sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but if war broke out between the warhammer 40,000 universe and the star wars universe there could be only one true winner:

 Wyzilla wrote:
They did, but it was utterly minimal and did not play a major part in the Clone Wars. At best they were behind the scenes supplying everyone and sitting in offices while keeping the paperwork flowing. At worst they simply didn't exist.

Also, those ships weren't manufactured overnight, nor were the ships. The entire plot and point of AOTC was that Palpatine set into motion the creation of the GAR a decade or more in advance.

This is simply wrong.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_Navy

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic

The Grand Army of the Republic (GAR), also known as the Grand Army and the Clone Army, was a major branch of the Galactic Republic Military composed entirely of clone troopers

Plus, the situation should be obvious from the first few minutes of the prequel trilogy, when the jedi arrive and don't immediately say "OH THEY HAVE BATTLESHIPS WE'RE SCREWED PLEASE DEAR GOD NEGOTIATE WITH US" like they would if the Republic had no significant military of its own. And then the Republic debates whether or not to grant the main characters' request to intervene, they don't immediately say "sorry, but we can't do anything because they have guns and we don't". It's very clear that the Republic doesn't want a war, but the blockade fleet isn't a crisis that threatens its existence. So the Republic must have its own fleet that is capable of ending the blockade by force, even if it is reluctant to use that fleet for political reasons.

 Torga_DW wrote:
I'm sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but if war broke out between the warhammer 40,000 universe and the star wars universe there could be only one true winner:

Spoiler:

*cries*

I clicked on that, man. LOL.

I'm sorry, i had to do it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
They did, but it was utterly minimal and did not play a major part in the Clone Wars. At best they were behind the scenes supplying everyone and sitting in offices while keeping the paperwork flowing. At worst they simply didn't exist.

Also, those ships weren't manufactured overnight, nor were the ships. The entire plot and point of AOTC was that Palpatine set into motion the creation of the GAR a decade or more in advance.

This is simply wrong.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_Navy

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic

The Grand Army of the Republic (GAR), also known as the Grand Army and the Clone Army, was a major branch of the Galactic Republic Military composed entirely of clone troopers

Plus, the situation should be obvious from the first few minutes of the prequel trilogy, when the jedi arrive and don't immediately say "OH THEY HAVE BATTLESHIPS WE'RE SCREWED PLEASE DEAR GOD NEGOTIATE WITH US" like they would if the Republic had no significant military of its own. And then the Republic debates whether or not to grant the main characters' request to intervene, they don't immediately say "sorry, but we can't do anything because they have guns and we don't". It's very clear that the Republic doesn't want a war, but the blockade fleet isn't a crisis that threatens its existence. So the Republic must have its own fleet that is capable of ending the blockade by force, even if it is reluctant to use that fleet for political reasons.

Except there is no numbers to the fleet to begin with, not to mention most information on the Republic Navy (scant information at that), is from Legends.

 Torga_DW wrote:
I'm sorry, i had to do it.

It was actually more funny that it was a spoiler. Of course, now everyone else must click on it too, out of curiosity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

How does that defeat the limitless armies of the IoM, Orks, Tyranids, Demons?

By shooting them from orbit? Having limitless armies doesn't help much if your enemy has no reason to fight those armies. Remember that, unlike the various 40k factions, Star Wars has reliable FTL capable of crossing the entire galaxy within hours, days at most. It doesn't matter how many guardsmen you have if a fleet of star destroyers is busy turning all of your key planets into spheres of glass.

When you have the Eldar/Necron who have advanced weapons that manipulate the universe itself?

Given that the Eldar and Necrons are regularly defeated by much less advanced factions it's a safe assumption that the supposed "manipulating the universe itself" and other high-end claims are arrogant boasting, not truth.

Neither of these actually make any sense at all in the 40k universe. You would think that the way every space marine commander would start a battle with the Orks would be to point at them and say, "Ok, drop 100 orbital bombardments there." For that matter, "drop 200 empty drop pods on top of those Orks!" Or remote-operated DWMLs. Or drone Vindicators squadrons! And you'd think the way Eldar would fight would be to fly to Terra, snuff out the Terran star and tell the humands to stick it where the sun don't shine.

And all species in 40k have Warp travel (or the Webway) so you'd think they'd all be a lot more mobile with their battleforces instead these planetary garrisons.

The Star Wars universe actually makes much more sense, from the perspective of "why do they do what they do"?

Evidence is always the other guy's responsibility on this forum. Yeesh. That is no way to have a real discussion.

 Kain wrote:
It gets to the point of "why the feth did the Empire even bother with the death star when they have all this nonsensical insanity?" It really just felt like the whole post-ROTJ EU was dedicated to making all the effort expended in the OT feel like a huge waste of time. "Yay we beat the empire, except no the war's just really beginning!" Among a huge conga-line of ridiculous things that makes me glad that Disney flushed the whole thing down the drain.

Be a little kinder, its not all gak. The Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy was an awesome bit of world-building.

Interesting discussions but the issue isn't worth losing sleep over. We're talking about 2 universes that are pretty inconsistent. The power levels of various things are quoted with great disparity so which of these value do you even use when pitting say a Star Destroyer against a Battle Barge. Screwed if I know...

Wow. When I say limitless I mean limitless. Beyond scope of comprehension. Even with star destroyers you have things like ammo, equipment and morale that are finite. They run out. Each ship destroyed would be a crippling loss while nids, orks and demons can endure. The only reason that I believe you are adamant some storm troopers and PDF can win is because there hasent been a full scale invasion from any faction. Its always been a splitter fleet. I'll use the nids because its easier to explain. Say you are in peak physical condition, training all your life in a heavily military environment. You are learned in all forms of tactics and equipped by the best weapons around.
You walk into a room and you see this small child. You are instructed to not leave until the child is dead. Simple. You walk up to this creature and execute it with a shot to the head. Done. No wait. It regenerated and now there are two teen sized creatures. You point your gun and fire. They know your going for headshots and proceed to dodge. However your skill is superb and you shoot through the heart. Now there are four. They are man sized. You shoot but they are impervious to bullets. Must have adapted to your fighting style. OK straight combat you break necks and snap spines. There are now eight fully grown men. Bullets no longer work and you are out of ammo. You manage to kill them in hand to hand but only nearly because you ate so tired. You look up in a sweaty gaze as exhaustion is kicking in. You see they move faster then you can comprehend and have claws. They parry and block each blow that you make with weary limbs. You start to realize that this is hopeless and despair starts to creep in. That is what the nids are. They are an unstoppable force of nature that learns and evolves and is only held back because it is not unified.They will blot out the sun with their bodies, adapt to surpass your best admiral, know no fear or mercy and are only ONE faction. I haven't even mentioned a near indestructible Necron force who also is always at partial strength because when they were at full strength they owned the universe and trapped real God like beings.But your right somehow a fleet of star destroyers piloted by some storm troopers marksmen can not only hold off the Nids, Orks, Necrons, Eldar, chaos, and the IoM but win against that threat. Because as far as I know, they (40k universe) aren't lead by a brilliant fish man and a militant teenage princess and have access to a fleet of 22 X-wing, 8 Y-wing, and 2 R-22 Spearhead starfighters to knock out the only thing holding the empire's authority... A deathstar

I've got to say Star Wars. They don't mess around in Star Wars man.

Exterminatus takes multiple bombardments, virus bombs etc, and even then the planet is still there.
Death Star. BOOM. Planet gone. No muss. No fuss.

FTL Travel in Star Wars takes, at most, a week? Warp travel takes FOREVER and is inherently risky, because Warp.

The Sith are not madmen, they are calculating, patient and strike with overwhelming force.
Chaos is just that, Chaos. The Sith empire only needed 1 try each time to get the galaxy to bow to them, what number black crusade are we on?

Furthermore. The Sith "Big Bads" actually have arms, Abaddon.

The big names in Star Wars will most likely win V 40K big names most of the time. As powerful as the Primarchs were, I don't think they could stand up against Revan, Mace Windu, Yoda, Malgus, Grievous, Obi-Wan, Anakin (Both versions), Satele Shan, Basila Shan, Boba Fett etc.


Besides, all this is besides the point. We all know what we'd pay to see.

Rancor V Carnifex.

The heroes in Star Wars are all roughly equivalent in ability to a Temple Assassin. Even the most powerful jedi rule-breakers can barely cast living lightning.

Going up against an Alpha-plus psyker like Tiggie or Ahriman? Just not going to go in the Jedi's favour.

Izural wrote:
I've got to say Star Wars. They don't mess around in Star Wars man.

Exterminatus takes multiple bombardments, virus bombs etc, and even then the planet is still there.
Death Star. BOOM. Planet gone. No muss. No fuss.

FTL Travel in Star Wars takes, at most, a week? Warp travel takes FOREVER and is inherently risky, because Warp.

The Sith are not madmen, they are calculating, patient and strike with overwhelming force.
Chaos is just that, Chaos. The Sith empire only needed 1 try each time to get the galaxy to bow to them, what number black crusade are we on?

Furthermore. The Sith "Big Bads" actually have arms, Abaddon.

The big names in Star Wars will most likely win V 40K big names most of the time. As powerful as the Primarchs were, I don't think they could stand up against Revan, Mace Windu, Yoda, Malgus, Grievous, Obi-Wan, Anakin (Both versions), Satele Shan, Basila Shan, Boba Fett etc.


Besides, all this is besides the point. We all know what we'd pay to see.

Rancor V Carnifex.

Fanboy alert.

Primarchs which are literal gods are somehow defeated by a guy with a light saber. Yep totally sounds legit. Sorry let me check the lore for one second. Oh yes it says here that everytime a human were to.. face a Primarch they would A. Instantly die, B. Get extremely fearful C. get mindblasted and have their head literally explode. D. Get ripped limb from limb. E. Get killed in an ambush that was set up somehow.

In a universe where literal gods are walking around. The STarwars universe wouldn't survive against Life eater virus or any of the deadlier weapons the imperium or hell what the eldar have.

Star Wars is deeply rooted in reality, 40k is not.

40k wins due to how ridiculous it is.