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 Manchu wrote:
If GHR has replaced Slaanesh, that would indeed be the dumbest thing about AoS yet. GHR is some kind of greater daemon of Nurgle at best.

Personally I think the 4 Chaos gods was always a bad concept. Chaos should be all about well, chaos, a million billion minor gods, each one claiming to be the real deal.

Saying there's a few major ones is fine, but capping it at four and saying that if one goes there must be a replacement, that's just too... orderly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:

 Necros wrote:
Slaanesh isn't gone forever. He'll be back in 2 years for the Warhammer Age of Chaos starter set. It will be a whole new game, with point costs and balanced armies, plus the traitorous legions of the Darkcast Eternals.

Jokes aside...

.. One does wonder if the eventual release of the plastic Keep of Secrets kit might well be accompanied by a "Return of Slaanesh" campaign/book/set of warscrolls etc etc.

Or y'know, maybe there won't be a plastic KoS. After all Nurgle and Khorne already got their kaiju, and so did Horney, so maybe that's it for the moment.

 Xyxox wrote:
I don't know it it has been posted here yet, but there's a free 81 page Age of Sigmar digital "Primer" available for download now. I got it from iBooks.

Does it have any new fluff?

I'm kinda thinking they'll be doing a bunch of different big books like the one that's coming out this week, maybe every 4-6 months there will be a new one with some mega model no one can resist buying like the end times stuff, followed by a bunch of other new units. Basically doing campaign books like warmahordes rather than army books.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Xyxox wrote:
I don't know it it has been posted here yet, but there's a free 81 page Age of Sigmar digital "Primer" available for download now. I got it from iBooks.

Does it have any new fluff?

Nope, more like an abbreviated version of the 94 page book in the boxed set, but it's free.

 Necros wrote:
I'm kinda thinking they'll be doing a bunch of different big books like the one that's coming out this week, maybe every 4-6 months there will be a new one with some mega model no one can resist buying like the end times stuff, followed by a bunch of other new units. Basically doing campaign books like warmahordes rather than army books.

This is the feeling I'm getting. They saw the success of a moving timeline (endtimes) and 40k campaigns and are making them the new business model for AoS. The fact that unit warscrolls are available once a unit goes up on pre-order is a good indicator they intend for the actual model rules to be free. Want to play a cool campaign (and not do the work) or want to rules to play on a different realm of existence (and again, not do the work) then you can purchase the campaign books that also move the story line forward.

I'm kinda down. 4 codexes in 2 months in 40k is a heck of a lot more expensive than 2-3 campaign books a year.

migooo wrote:Fire dwarfs... fire slayers...

I predict a big box release for duardin. This'll be called the fire starter.
It'll have examples of the heavy infantry answering only to the dwarf king. These are the fire guards.
There will also be sparsely armoured, fast moving infantry. The fire lighters.
They'll have a war machine in the grand tradition of flame cannons and goblin hewers. The fire engine.
Aaand I'm done.

Sarouan wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The wierdest thing about KOW is that their rules don't even use miniatures. From what I see, KOW plays just fine with wooden blocks of the appropriate sizes. Paint them so you can distinguish the team, mark the front, and you'll be all set to play.

It's not weird, it's just a game system. The same can be done with all games, as long as you have enough accessories to "count as" the materials needed to play.

Even AoS can be played without miniatures and just using different sizes of circles you use as "count as miniatures with the volume equal to the circle". It's certainly cheaper but I guess you can see how pointless the rules are without your favorite GW models on the table. Now is that weird?

This! Of all the criticisms you can level at KoW, that's got to be the most straw-clutchy.
In fact, some of the nicest units I've seen have been for element-based games, which give players freedom to set up little dioramas and scenes.

RoninXiC wrote:New rules give the chance of summoning a "unit of demons"
Since there are 0 limitations on it... that unit can be 19430594305435 man strong.

Balance!

Yodhrin wrote:
He completely ignores the period beginning around 3rd Ed 40K where GW very much were at least trying to design "balanced" rules, and supported organised play, as it's inconvenient to his "GW always hated people playing competitively" narrative.

We have always been at war with Eastazyr.

Kilkrazy wrote:
Bloody hell! It is turning into Special Rules Central!!

This is the Mr Creosote school of game design.

Called it! And

nudibranch wrote:Yeahhh, I'm a long time Skaven player, but I'll agree that the Horned Rat doesn't really fit in all that well within the Chaos pantheon imho. The pestilent aspect is taken by Nurgle, the scheming aspect byTzeench, the warlike-ness by Khorne and the greed by Slaanesh. He honestly doesn't have much of a niche. He's sort of like a budget version of all the other gods combined.

Been thinking that myself, since someone posted the map showing 'the fortress of the 13th lord' or somesuch, in Nurgle's realm.

Fireball wrote:The evil versions of the Stormcast Eternals are actually the Finecast Eternals ...

Bravo, sir!

Isn't the great rat just chaos undivided, b/c skaven don't really fit into chaos. Skaven are like a preverted mirror of Empire, which doesn't fight or worship their own chaos nature. More instinct and pecking order than vainity. So the great rat manifests as a more whole being.

Cant wait to see the lesser daemons of GHR.
Will they look like rats?!

nudibranch wrote:
I personally would of preferred that they refocus Slaanesh away from 'lol tits' and instead on the more general hedonism that he represents (Sigvald the Magnificent was a step in this direction imho), but I guess this'll do.

Has GW ever really focussed Slaanesh on "lol tits"? The fanbase does, but GW themselves haven't seem particularly interested in figuring out what to do with Slaanesh one way or another. Which is similar to the situation the Squats were in, way back when.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Personally I think the 4 Chaos gods was always a bad concept. Chaos should be all about well, chaos, a million billion minor gods, each one claiming to be the real deal.

I think it's one of the best and most original ideas GW's ever had. Tthis particular combination of gods and how they fit together, I mean. True, it's not very "Chaos", but I'd rather GW got rid of the name than the substance.

Come to think of it... with all the goofy changes they're making to protect their IP, why are they keeping Chaos? They even went and made Moorcock's symbol for it part of the game's logo.

nudibranch wrote:
You know, how about make the GHR the Chaos god of... anger and seething hatred? A deity or pure disdain and revilement of others whilst embodying these characteristics himself as plague-ridden vermin, which strangely isn't something represented by the other gods. Khorne is about bloodshed and martial prowess, Nurgle is about decay and stagnation, Slaanesh is about hedonism and excess and Tzeentch is about scheming and control. None of them are exclusively about the pure despisal that the Skaven embody.

Seeing as how the Skaven and the GHR embody chaos completely, I can see the GHR, once recognized in the pantheon of Chaos Gods, plotting to then supplant them all and rule them and the horrible humans and daemons that serve them. The Skaven have always been more chaotic than chaos themselves, because everyone is always looking to backstab and scheme their way around everyone and everything around them. Can definitely see that being an event they go with at some point, Skaven fighting the rest of chaos. Or, could see them pulling out the treachery to create some good old fashioned infighting between followers of the other chaos gods.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


Bloody hell! It is turning into Special Rules Central!!

If Firehead Dwarves in the Realm of Fire accompanied by two Gryphons within 12 inches of a Lord Celibate get double missile attacks, and if there is a Sulphur Pool within 12 inches all attacks count as Rending, and against Water creatures additional +1 To Wound unless they are within 12 inches of a friendly wizard.

This is the Mr Creosote school of game design.

More like the Privateer Press school of design...
____

NoggintheNog wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:


But there are only FOUR PAGES OF RULES!

What a mess.

Will it actually take 6+ 60€ additional rulebooks to get all rules for the different realms? Seriously?

6?

I think 6 a year is where this is heading. Rules for Free! 4 pages only! Plus one £45 book every 2 months to have any meaningful structure of course.
It is, now that I see it, the only possible way it can work. New units released, new big book full of narrative scenarios and special rules to fit them in. Thats the balancing mechanism. And that is perhaps the most expensive method of releasing a tabletop game they could possibly devise.

GW is cribbing from Warmachine and Malifaux, launching books of rules bit by bit. Then 2E will come around, and GW will compile AoS Army Books, and you will be able to buy your rules all over again.

The horned rat has always felt like he's being stealing small amounts of power from each god. Not enough to notice at anyone single moment. But allows the horned rat to be the best of each facet with less of the draw backs.

 Fayric wrote:
Cant wait to see the lesser daemons of GHR.
Will they look like rats?!

I'd say that's more likely than a load of giant horns.

 Vermis wrote:

Sarouan wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The wierdest thing about KOW is that their rules don't even use miniatures. From what I see, KOW plays just fine with wooden blocks of the appropriate sizes. Paint them so you can distinguish the team, mark the front, and you'll be all set to play.

It's not weird, it's just a game system. The same can be done with all games, as long as you have enough accessories to "count as" the materials needed to play.

Even AoS can be played without miniatures and just using different sizes of circles you use as "count as miniatures with the volume equal to the circle". It's certainly cheaper but I guess you can see how pointless the rules are without your favorite GW models on the table. Now is that weird?

This! Of all the criticisms you can level at KoW, that's got to be the most straw-clutchy.
In fact, some of the nicest units I've seen have been for element-based games, which give players freedom to set up little dioramas and scenes.

Huh? I read the KOW 2 rules, and KOW is NOT a miniatures game. It is a block battles game. KOW units are of fixed size and dimension, they never degrade, never reform. Just pure block play.

AoS and 40k work on a per-model basis. Units are composed of individual models. Where KOS has a single large block of predefined dimensions that represents 40 models (which themselves represent some number of soldiers), AoS and 40k actually require 40 models.

Sure, you can switch a GW game to 40 magic cylinders, but you still need to manage 40 individuals for that unit. KOW just doesn't do that.

Now this isn't a bad design, as wooden block wargaming is appropriate for historicals and ancients where units should actually be 100s or 1000s of men, not dozens.

Getting defensive over KOW being a block game is just silly.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

More like the Privateer Press school of design...
__
GW is cribbing from Warmachine and Malifaux, launching books of rules bit by bit. Then 2E will come around, and GW will compile AoS Army Books, and you will be able to buy your rules all over again.

You mean like... no?

PP has loads of basic "special" rules which most units use. AoS has extra and additional special snowflake rules on EEEVVVEEERRRYYYYTHIIIIING. Some Warmachine Cards are blank. No special rules whatsoever.
Yes, the casters are unique, but they all follow the same basic design.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

Sarouan wrote:

Huh? I read the KOW 2 rules, and KOW is NOT a miniatures game. It is a block battles game. KOW units are of fixed size and dimension, they never degrade, never reform. Just pure block play.

AoS and 40k work on a per-model basis. Units are composed of individual models. Where KOS has a single large block of predefined dimensions that represents 40 models (which themselves represent some number of soldiers), AoS and 40k actually require 40 models.

Sure, you can switch a GW game to 40 magic cylinders, but you still need to manage 40 individuals for that unit. KOW just doesn't do that.

Now this isn't a bad design, as wooden block wargaming is appropriate for historicals and ancients where units should actually be 100s or 1000s of men, not dozens.

Getting defensive over KOW being a block game is just silly.

Bollocks.

KoW has plenty of "single models". And what actually is the difference between a 10x10mm model and a 32mm round base model? absolutely none.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

NoggintheNog wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:


But there are only FOUR PAGES OF RULES!

What a mess.

Will it actually take 6+ 60€ additional rulebooks to get all rules for the different realms? Seriously?

6?

I think 6 a year is where this is heading. Rules for Free! 4 pages only! Plus one £45 book every 2 months to have any meaningful structure of course.
It is, now that I see it, the only possible way it can work. New units released, new big book full of narrative scenarios and special rules to fit them in. Thats the balancing mechanism. And that is perhaps the most expensive method of releasing a tabletop game they could possibly devise.

GW is cribbing from Warmachine and Malifaux, launching books of rules bit by bit. Then 2E will come around, and GW will compile AoS Army Books, and you will be able to buy your rules all over again.

Problem with that argument is that (supposedly) all rules will be released on the GW site for free. So all warscrolls, formations, and scenarios with special rules included are free to download and print. If people want the "fancy" books, they can buy them, but shouldn't have to unless you are a collector.

So in this instance, GW isn't in a money grab. Now, the price of product is a different story. The AoS specific gold spray paint is a jump in price and each of the three paints specific to the starter set is about $1 more a pot, which is getting a tad ridiculous. And then $10 a model for the new unit out this week with more weapon options than what came in the starter. And $33 for an unmounted character from the starter is getting quite crazy, especially if the goal is to lure people into this new game.

HobbyBox wrote:
the Skaven and the GHR embody chaos completely

Uh, more than Chaos daemons?

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
a quote for the Duardin Fyreslayers
"For enough Ur-gold, the Fyreslayers will fight anyone.

The first strikes of the Stormcast Eternal were against the Chaos foces in Aqushy. Yet other forces rose up to battle also. the flame beareded Fyreslayers emerged from the mountains, marching down the ironways. While Sigmar had alwasy counted the Forge-Father Grungni and his offstpring amonst his closest allies, these Duarddin worshipped the god Grimnir, and were far more mercenary. They fought against Chaos, but only for payment in Ur-gold. More disturbing still, if a counter-offer was generous enough, the Fyreslayters would just as willingly fight alongside Chaos armies."

Apparently pictures with Lady Atia as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong but chaos did have a bunch of minor gods they just weren't talked about much as they were not major players. Wasn't malal I think the name was the name of the chaos god who represented either undivided or just minor powers?

A large portion of the Skaven already unknowingly worship Nurgle.

Don't some Desmond also pretend to be one of the gods to get what they want out of mortals. Tricking and betraying them all the way to damnation.

Malal is the God that hates the other Chaos Gods, the 5th God.

What if the Horned Rat is Malal? After being surpassed by his 4 rivals he created the Skaven and bided his time until the End Times gave him the opportunity he was waiting for.

 pretre wrote:
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
a quote for the Duardin Fyreslayers
"For enough Ur-gold, the Fyreslayers will fight anyone.

The first strikes of the Stormcast Eternal were against the Chaos foces in Aqushy. Yet other forces rose up to battle also. the flame beareded Fyreslayers emerged from the mountains, marching down the ironways. While Sigmar had alwasy counted the Forge-Father Grungni and his offstpring amonst his closest allies, these Duarddin worshipped the god Grimnir, and were far more mercenary. They fought against Chaos, but only for payment in Ur-gold. More disturbing still, if a counter-offer was generous enough, the Fyreslayters would just as willingly fight alongside Chaos armies."

Apparently pictures with Lady Atia as well.

Great if this means the return of Chaos dwarfs options, horrible if the red slayers are slayers though since they are supposed to be more about honour.

cerealkiller195 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but chaos did have a bunch of minor gods they just weren't talked about much as they were not major players. Wasn't malal I think the name was the name of the chaos god who represented either undivided or just minor powers?

Yup, named Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar. Back from when GW had a sense of humour.

 Grimtuff wrote:

cerealkiller195 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but chaos did have a bunch of minor gods they just weren't talked about much as they were not major players. Wasn't malal I think the name was the name of the chaos god who represented either undivided or just minor powers?

Yup, named Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar. Back from when GW had a sense of humour.

(For the younglings, these are Bryan Ansell (founder of GW), Michael Moorcock and Frank Frazetta)

 Eldarain wrote:
What if the Horned Rat is Malal? After being surpassed by his 4 rivals he created the Skaven and bided his time until the End Times gave him the opportunity he was waiting for.

That would be wierd, as Malal's most famous champion was human (Kaleb Daark), and then there was a Malal Sorcorer (Heinrich Bors), and then there's Skrag the Slaughterer, an Ogre Maneater. Not really any Skaven stuff that I can recall.

Im trying to find that new AoS app that everyone is talking about but have had no luck finding it with Android or iOS.. can anyone help?

Yeah its not out yet lol

 pretre wrote:



Apparently pictures with Lady Atia as well.

Zwergenkavallerie?

Dwarfs got rides? now?