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yup 32mm got introduced while back but the skittari oval that GW seems to be using for AOS cavalry is still not on sale.

 Guildsman wrote:
Yeah... all of that turns me off of the setting even more, which I didn't think was possible. Setting up each realm like a friggin' Minecraft world with as much space and as many kingdoms as your heart desires just feels like the writers didn't care enough to figure it out themselves.

It feels like they're trying to port over as much of 40K as possible, without really trying to make sense of what's popular or how it all makes sense together. At least in 40K, the "infinite civilizations" bit makes sense, since you're working with an entire galaxy with functionally unlimited planets. Here, any inconsistency or plot hole is filled in with "magic!!!" like it's spackle. Killed off a character that you want to use again? Bring him back with magic! Need new cultures/landmasses/battlefields? Infinitely large magic realms! Desperately trying to sell more of the only thing you know works (space marines)? Shoehorn in reskinned versions of marines, made with magic! It's all so jumbled and lazy.

Also, can we subpoena Josh Reynolds next time GW tries to claim it invented everything?

Yep, that's my feeling as well. The scope of 40K to allow them to pump out endless newshiny, with none of the real consequences in-fiction; 40K might have functionally endless worlds and cultures to fight over, but most of the time they're physical places populated by actual people inhabiting a sci-fantastical version of reality, so if someone or somewhere gets eradicated they stay that way - there's something to lose, and typically when something's gone it actually is gone - if you can just magic everything back as-was or conjure your dead warriors' souls into new forms to keep fighting, where are the stakes?

Actually on saying that, I've figured out what AoS' structure reminds me of; the background from fantasy MMOs. Everything written as broadly as possible to allow for unlimited expansion, and all in ways that allow constantly repeating no-consequence character death and other such gameplay contrivances to be explained away in-world without posing difficult questions for players.

They say AoS is about narrative, but without real consequences I don't see how AoS is going to generate stories anywhere like as compelling as those that came from what Reynolds derisively dismissed as "not-Germany".

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Sigmar 's place...

I... really don't like it. It looks like a space port with random landmarks shoved into it. It's like a bright happy Commorragh.

So far I like what I see with AoS. It is about Pushing Plastic and Blowing Up. That is what I am looking for in my Table Top Games. The rules being as simple as they are makes that really easy to play.
As for the setting, I really don't care about it yet. Give me some time I and I may start to care.
This was how I started with most of my Table Top Games.

spaztacus wrote:
Yeah, sincne Blood Angels we've seen 32mm for jump pack and now with Vanilla Marines we've seen 32mm for devastator squads as well. I think the Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest was also 32mm. I'm starting to wonder if all 40k going forward will be 32mm.

Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest Dominus blister was 50mm.

The Datasmith(Kastelan Robot "handler") was 32mm as were the Electropriests.

If so a green tide would take up 17 square inches more on the board.

 Orock wrote:
If so a green tide would take up 17 square inches more on the board.

Don't worry, in 8th Edition 40K bases won't matter and you measure from the closest point on your model!

spaztacus wrote:
Yeah, sincne Blood Angels we've seen 32mm for jump pack and now with Vanilla Marines we've seen 32mm for devastator squads as well. I think the Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest was also 32mm. I'm starting to wonder if all 40k going forward will be 32mm.

Aye, but, I mean, 32mms in their own blister packs, hanging on the rack beside the counter, alongside the assortment packs of older round and square bases?


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 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Sigmar 's place...

I... really don't like it. It looks like a space port with random landmarks shoved into it. It's like a bright happy Commorragh.

To me it looks like a cross between a partial orbital ring and a really big craftworld.

 Vermis wrote:
Aye, but, I mean, 32mms in their own blister packs, hanging on the rack beside the counter, alongside the assortment packs of older round and square bases?

Yeah. Been like that for months. Every now and then one of my local stores has a few blisters of them on the rack.

I was just looking through the new white dwarf. On page 20, it looks like they are showing some more stormcast models. A group like cultists and a chariot.

Those are the existing Empire Flagellants and War Altar of Sigmar

I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.

Age of Sigmar takes place millennia after the End Times, after the rise and fall of numerous civilizations, any number of which may have been grander and lasted longer than the Old World's Empire. And they only rate a passing mention in the background section.

For all we know, all the humans in the AOS universe are descended from Tileans.

I get the feeling you're not supposed to care about the dirty, boring humans anyway.

My entire reaction to AoS: "Are those Hammer-nators?? And what the hell happened to my infantry Bricks??" In short not a fan. I like the whole Demiplane Battle Royale thing, could have been fun, but since there doesnt appear to be any real cost to losing (other than wasted time) what the frell is the point in even fighting?? Why are they even fighting if each side can just "magic" back its warriors?

In short, this setting has massive holes and the fact that they replaced Slaanesh (my least favorite Chaos god btw) with the Horned Rat just pisses me off.

Exactly Grimmor, the stormcast eternals don't have heart or soul, they are just magically reincarnated dead guys now fighting chaos, there's not really as much tension as the old wfb, less stress on survival. Just more magic guys fighting the bad bloody guys.

I'm also pretty upset that something as inadequate as the horned rat fills the shoes of Slaanesh. I just don't think he can apply for the kind of position a chaos god entails, his description is just trickery and pestilence combined, sound familiar? Campaigns and story aside, they should have just made up a different god while they were at it, that could have been so much better.

Not trickery. Treachery. Key distinction

Trickery is about stabbing your opponent when his back is turned.
Treachery is about stabbing your ally when his back is turned.

Horned Rat makes an excellent stand-in for Malal/Malice.

Vermis wrote:
Hmm. The 32mm bases were on sale in my local before AoS was released... or were they out already for space marines?

They're really cheap, loose. Something like $4 or $5 for a box of 10, and of course, you still get a discount from it if you buy it from an indie. BA Tacticals, new SKU Death Company (and the ones that came with Deathstorm), the new devastators and assault marines, the new Sanguinary Guard are all boxes I've bought with 32mm bases.

spaztacus wrote:Yeah, sincne Blood Angels we've seen 32mm for jump pack and now with Vanilla Marines we've seen 32mm for devastator squads as well. I think the Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest was also 32mm. I'm starting to wonder if all 40k going forward will be 32mm.

I don't think so. All the Harlequins came on 25mm. In my opinion, it will be for the models that look like they step off of 25mm bases -- power armor types, bulky models, etc -- that don't belong on 50mm bases.

At the end of the day, as with many things with Games Workshop, the Rule of Cool prevails -- it's all just about whatever makes the model look nice.

You have to keep in mind that for some people, "Space Marines" = "all of 40k" and when you think of it that way it makes more sense.

When we first saw this occurring with the Marines in the Deathstorm box, even though the genestealers in the box still came on their usual bases, people still assumed "omg all 40k going to 32mm instead of 25mm?!" for quite a while after.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.

I think it bears mentioning the vast time that's passed (apparently). The Old World and the End Times are only a "prequel" to Age of Sigmar n the sense that, dunno, the Napoleonic Wars are a prequel to Warhammer 40K.

Which is even more saddening, considering what they could have done.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Which is even more saddening, considering what they could have done.

An actual 'Age of Sigmar' would have been interesting, perhaps with rules along the same lines as Saga.

Saga is an example of a game that deals with the problem of non standard basing in a sensible way, by having unit on unit combat rather than model on model.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Which is even more saddening, considering what they could have done.

I wont lie, I did have some hopes. A skirmish based game that could be played with a handful of models and was fast paced along side the more classic WHFB game.

Instead though we got Sigmarines, Notchaosmarines and a game which is quite literally about bringing every model that you have and feth the balance.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Sigmar 's place...

Hmm...

 master of ordinance wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Which is even more saddening, considering what they could have done.

I wont lie, I did have some hopes. A skirmish based game that could be played with a handful of models and was fast paced along side the more classic WHFB game.

Instead though we got Sigmarines, Notchaosmarines and a game which is quite literally about bringing every model that you have and feth the balance.

On the plus side Sigmarites make excellent Terminators and the Khorne guys are cool looking Khorne Berskeres. Seriously i dont like this new style, i liked fantasy's style fine, it was nice and gritty. Now it just looks like im using 40k models.

On the other hand, GW has discounted a bundle.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Realmgate-and-Archway

You can save 3 dollars if you get this.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the other hand, GW has discounted a bundle.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Realmgate-and-Archway

You can save 3 dollars if you get this.

 Vermis wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:
Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies...

Hmm. The 32mm bases were on sale in my local before AoS was released... or were they out already for space marines?

angelofvengeance wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
Another thread about AoS news rendered unreadable by pages of

'this game is rubbish'

'Moaners are rubbish'

'My opinion beats your opinion'

Sterling work.

Hahaha love this! +1 sir!

How about, 'People having opinions are rubbish, nevermind I've jumped in with my own plenty of times.'

Opinions are one thing, but this is pretty much two camps of people seeing who can shout the loudest at one another now. The thing is, both sides are legit from several viewpoints ; some people like the game - because someone else doesn't does not make the (dis)liker incorrect. However heaps of posts that, with incredulity, call into question how it is possible that the (dis)liker holds this opinion lands us firmly into the realm of circuitous discussion. This is where conversations usually peter out on Dakka.


I've played the game. I like the actual game play, but good lord, the list construction is still train-wreck-tacular. And unfortunately that's really hampering us right now. Other than "one formation vs. one formation" or "two formation vs. two formation", our games have been totally lopsided one way or the other when we use the Rules as Written method of dropping models until I don't wanna drop models anymore. Our playing so far really seems to favor smaller games with this ruleset.... 75-125 wounds seems about right in terms of size, though it does nothing for weight distribution balance, clearly. There are 10-14 wound characters worth three times that in rank and file puds. There are 5 wound models that are nearly immeasurably valuable in certain armies.


My crew is going to look at Kings of War when the "other armies" thing drops to see what we want to continue doing. I think we might use AoS when we are limited in time to play a fast paced looser, smaller game, and then either do KoW (if we like it) or continue with 8th End Times if we don't.


But one thing's for sure... i've basically stopped paying attention to any post that is rife with hyperbole, tangent, and anecdote. Anyone White Knighting for, or issuing Writs of Condemnation without it being clear that they've played the game, I just pretty much cruise right past unless its a handful of people that typically have interesting things to say (which, Vermis, while we typically disagree on stance, I do tend to stop when i see a sheep avatar and at least graze a while ).


At this point though i'm wondering why people are wasting time defending or decrying the game. It's out. It is what it is. It's going to succeed or its going to fail. If you like it, play it, support it. If you don't, don't ? Why bring dubious quality anectdotes into a News and Rumors thread either for or against ? I mean, it's the same dozen or so people writing 80% of literally pages now of the same stuff.

Why not make a thread that says "I (don't) Hate Age of Sigmar: here's why!" ... and then keep that on topic easily. Because people that want news and rumors on the game have to wade through miles of bs in this thread to find a nugget of what they are looking for. Frankly, most of the posts in the thread don't have to do with news or rumors : they have to do with people's opinion on the game. Probably not the right thread for that. Definitely not the right thread for christ only knows how many pages on pages of it.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Overall the game is actually a lot of fun and very solid. And I feel people claiming it comes down to luck or that it always turns into a scrum in the middle and there aren't tactics are wrong.

I respect your opinion but fail to see where would this tactics come from. All I see is some shoot out of cc shenaningans and special rules interactions but imo the former is very immersion breaking and weird and the latter is done better in many other rulesets, the most obvious example being Warmachine. The rest of the system is extremly barebone, ofc you have to properly divide the workload for attacks or objectives or choose right paper for the rock but that's basic point and click rts-ish stuff that every other game out there does as well. The difference would be that almost all games out there do skirmish stuff better and all unit based games do units stuff better while requiring much less houseruling, gentleman's agreement, common decency, mutual understanding, consciousness and love.

There are some tactics ofc, as long as there's movement, charge bonus, terrain, unit types etc you always have tactics. They seem to be a side effect here not a designers effort though and people will hit a skill ceiling fast.

I respect your opinion as well. But you act like there were more extensive tactics in WFB previously. Outside of bonuses for flanking you're describing the same factors that people called tactics in WFB. Proper movement, deployment, target priority, screening, baiting, fleeing, and such are still there. With the added effect of power houses like monsters, characters, and support units being harder to hide and more open to damage. I don't think the ceiling is as low as you think it is.

People say the same thing about 40k and yet the same group of guys have dominated the upper levels of 40k for the last 2-3 years.

I think flanking makes a world of difference. All those things you mention gain a new dimension when flanking or rear charges are a thing ie screening units gets that another layer of thought that has to be put into it. 40k as a shooting game gives you natural bonuses from flanking in form of negating cover which matters more there than in fantasy not to mention vehicles have vulnerable sides also there's a lot of reserve/ scout/ infiltrate going on and in the end it's a significantly more complex ruleset (while still a tactical simpleton imo and should be so much more). I'm not saying whfb and 40k do it perfectly, they dont and are imo both suffering from too short movement ranges and steadfast in 8th was a bit too strong at times. 8th was a dumbed down 6th/7th though and the latter at their best were a proper generalship contests imo.

In fact, wargames, especialy those that lack a proper ambush mechanics can get quite simple when it comes to tactics as the situation they depict dont allow a lot of possibilities or sophistication tbh. That's why imo they should relay on small intricacies of fighting, artificial layers of interaction (like the movement and angles in 7th whfb for example) or hidden orders. If you look at it like that then removing the flanking bonuses is a huge blow as it removes a meaningful part of decision making where there are only a few already.

Sunday 3pm here btw and I have yet to go to sleep after a night spent under a wall of speakers in heavy rain and am bit insane atm tbh. So if the post contains some grammar atrocities or absurds (more than usual heh) then I'll try to elaborate later.

 Malika2 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Sigmar 's place...

Hmm...

So basically Sigmar picks it up after Mars has been purged in 'Cybernetica'?