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 gmaleron wrote:
When breaking it down it really is not as scary as people make it out to be, strong? Most definitely but its not "OP" especially when compared to other things in the game, in particular, from the Imperial Armies. For example:

-Unlike Imperial Knights (who Tau struggle with right now) who can take several in a single list you can only ever have x1 of these guys unless you play unbound and at that point its out the window for both armies involved. Multiple Knights will still pose a problem to both this and Tau armies unless the new Codex makes some more changes to give us a better chance.

You could take two CAD's, support them with a couple HQ guys and four dozen Fire Warriors supporting and run two of 'em with points to spare.

LockeWatts wrote:

Yeah, and I think it will not cancel out other rolls of a 6 that happen simultaneously. and you lose the 4+ against any other attacks.

So if it gets hit with 4 Destroyer shots and 1 rolls a 6 it doesn't get the 4+ against any of them.

Uhh, I believe you're mistaken here. There's precedent here with the Dark Eldar 2++ armour, whatever that's called. When shooting at that thing, you roll your saves one at a time. The same should apply to the T'aunar.

You roll the destroyer hits one at a time. All of the ones before the 6 get saves, all of the ones after don't.

Except that the player who dealt the wounds gets to decide the order of allocation, so you could make the suit take the "6" first.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Let me fix the title for you...

It's going to mix things up a bit for sure... but who here is actually going to buy and field one?

me.
It looks like the Odin from SC 2

Except that the player who dealt the wounds gets to decide the order of allocation, so you could make the suit take the "6" first.

D weapon hits aren't wound pools and aren't allocated as such. All wounds caused by all of the D hits are from the same weapon, and so by requirement are the same wound pool.

Here are some numbers for those interested.

It takes 18 twin linked BS4 grav shots to down a WK (sword and board, using 5++/5+++)
It takes 35 twin linked BS4 grav shots to down the XV139.
It takes right at double the number of shots to down the XV139 as two WK's.


EDIT: Bad numbers, had to fix em.

So for the points they're about as durable as each other? (The WK is ~300pts right?)

 ImAGeek wrote:
So for the points they're about as durable as each other? (The WK is ~300pts right?)

That is correct, at least for grav-style weapons. If the WK has a 4+ cover save from ruins, they're actually more durable than the XV139

 ImAGeek wrote:
So for the points they're about as durable as each other? (The WK is ~300pts right?)

Yes, against grav, they are equally durable. Against D weapons and naturally against anything under S7, the Ta'unar is more durable point by point. Likewise against anything with AP3 or worse the Ta'unar is more durable point by point. To be fair, the Ta'unar is more durable against everything except weapons that ignore toughness and armour saves by special means.

People really complain about Wraithknights, but the Ta'unar is now supposedly just mediocre. It's more durable point by point, and it has point by point more firepower. The only thing it doesn't do as good or better point by point is close combat.

Well, at least Tau players will be glad if people don't give their usual angry whine about imbalance after the beat down they receive from this guy and the supporting army.

I don't think anyone has argued it's mediocre... I think it's pretty universally regarded as strong.

Looks like ok to me. On the strong side definitely, but maybe I prefer to face one of these rather than 3 riptides. Tyranids have zero ways to actually kill it but maybe one can ignore it (big maybe though).

It's not WK-joke-level by no means. 600 pts is a steep price, regardless of how strong it is. I kind of like it tbh (nop, I do not play Tau).

Suuuure you don't.

Well, I don't. I have painted the Tau army (neat Tron theme), they have never left the bookshelf though.

Ah, I thought that was a bit weird.



I personaly think that it's too cheap, but it should be in the 800s not the 1000s.


Out of interest, does anybody know how much the warhound costs?

Someone earlier in the thread said it costed 750.

750 is where it rests at, but each double barrel turbolaser destructor is 100 points too cheap. With those weapons it should be 950 points.

Here's the compiled list of ways to kill this thing.

35 Grav shots w/amps (rerolls hits, rerolls wounds)
54 regular Grav shots (no rerolls at all)
10 ranged hits from D-Weapons (each 6 rolled drops this by > 5)
8 melee hits from D-weapons (each 6 rolled drops this by > 4)
20 S10 AP2 attacks with Instant Death (WS4, reroll hits)
40 S10 AP2 attacks without Instant Death (WS4, reroll hits)
30 wounds from Psychic Shriek (calculated as a 4++ save)
135 Lasgun shots with rending (rerolls hits, rerolls wounds)
85 melee attacks with either rending or S6 AP2 (WS4, reroll hits, reroll wounds)

No guarantees on the math but it gives you a rough idea of the tools you can use.

Yoyoyo wrote:
Here's the compiled list of ways to kill this thing.

35 Grav shots w/amps (rerolls hits, rerolls wounds)
54 regular Grav shots (no rerolls at all)
10 ranged hits from D-Weapons (each 6 rolled drops this by > 5)
8 melee hits from D-weapons (each 6 rolled drops this by > 4)
20 S10 AP2 attacks with Instant Death (WS4, reroll hits)
40 S10 AP2 attacks without Instant Death (WS4, reroll hits)
30 wounds from Psychic Shriek (calculated as a 4++ save)
135 Lasgun shots with rending (rerolls hits, rerolls wounds)
85 melee attacks with either rending or S6 AP2 (WS4, reroll hits, reroll wounds)

No guarantees on the math but it gives you a rough idea of the tools you can use.

Thats kinda nuts.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Here's the compiled list of ways to kill this thing.

35 Grav shots w/amps (rerolls hits, rerolls wounds)
54 regular Grav shots (no rerolls at all)
10 ranged hits from D-Weapons (each 6 rolled drops this by > 5)
8 melee hits from D-weapons (each 6 rolled drops this by > 4)
20 S10 AP2 attacks with Instant Death (WS4, reroll hits)
40 S10 AP2 attacks without Instant Death (WS4, reroll hits)
30 wounds from Psychic Shriek (calculated as a 4++ save)
135 Lasgun shots with rending (rerolls hits, rerolls wounds)
85 melee attacks with either rending or S6 AP2 (WS4, reroll hits, reroll wounds)

No guarantees on the math but it gives you a rough idea of the tools you can use.

Thats kinda nuts.

yeah, but compare that to pretty much any LoW/Superheavy/Gargantuan creature. Throw someone liek Calgar at it and he'll probably tie it up all game if he doesn't supplex the damn thing.

Except it can stomp him on a lucky 6 and suddenly you wish you hadn't wasted a 200+ point character.

Yeah, but there is only a 1/9 chance of that happening(which I admit is uncomfortably large).

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, but there is only a 1/9 chance of that happening(which I admit is uncomfortably large).

The thing gets D3 stomps, and you can place them on top of one another IIRC.

D3 means an average of 2. So it's a 33% chance of removing Calgar every turn.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Infinitely better than a Hierophant Bio Titan. 400 pts cheaper. Sense=gone.

and if you look at the value of it over the stompa, its even better.

If you want to melee it you want to send in another GC or SHV as those are immune to stomps

One or more Imperial Knights, perhaps?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, but there is only a 1/9 chance of that happening(which I admit is uncomfortably large).

The thing gets D3 stomps, and you can place them on top of one another IIRC.

D3 means an average of 2. So it's a 33% chance of removing Calgar every turn.

Thats not how that works. You don't add 1/6 to 1/6.

But you are correct that I was wrong. Its a 30.6% chance of rolling at least one 6.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, but there is only a 1/9 chance of that happening(which I admit is uncomfortably large).

The thing gets D3 stomps, and you can place them on top of one another IIRC.

D3 means an average of 2. So it's a 33% chance of removing Calgar every turn.

Thats not how that works. You don't add 1/6 to 1/6.

But you are correct that I was wrong. Its a 30.6% chance of rolling at least one 6.

If you want to get properly mathmatical you should account for the odds of rolling x numbers of stomps also

so it would be (1/3 * 1/6) + (1/3 * 11/36) + (1/3 * 91/216) = 0.29783950617283950617283950617284

So its a 29.79% chance of rolling a at least one 6 on stomp at all

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
One or more Imperial Knights, perhaps?

It is much much tougher than an IK, or even two IKs.

It takes 36 krak missiles to the face to kill an IK.

It takes 270 krak missiles to the face to kill this.

On the other hand, if I knight can get in CC range, it has a pretty good chance. And tau are quite bad at heavy armour right now.

It is much much tougher than an IK, or even two IKs.

It takes 36 krak missiles to the face to kill an IK.

It takes 270 krak missiles to the face to kill this.

Krak missiles are a terrible way to kill it. You intentionally picked something bad for the comparison.

If you pick something like a pulse laser, the math changes slightly.

It takes 90 pulse laser hits to kill it. It takes 36 pulse laser hits to kill a knight. Normalizing by points gets you

90/600 = 0.15
36/375 = 0.096

So the T'aunar is about 50% more durable per point than a knight against pulse lasers.

Just for comparison, here are the numbers with grav.

36 grav hits kill a T'aunar
72 grav hits kills a Knight

36/600 = 0.06
72/375 = 0.192

The Knight is absurdly more durable to grav.

These numbers could be massaged even more. If I take a Knight Paladin at 325 it looks better for the Knight.

I'm not saying the thing isn't durable as hell, it is. But it has weaknesses and you don't need to make spurious comparisons about it.

And please remind us all exactly how many armies have access too Grav?