Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is the most absurd thing that I have ever seen.

A quick look has this suit beating a Warhound titan most of the time.

Not the case. The math was done here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/664302.page#8133102

Yoyoyo wrote:
Not the case. The math was done here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/664302.page#8133102

Only if you take the most Min Max OP WAAC loadout..

Take the standard fluff loadout of turbo lasers and mega bolter and it won't win.

 minigun762 wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Not the case. The math was done here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/664302.page#8133102

Only if you take the most Min Max OP WAAC loadout..

Take the standard fluff loadout of turbo lasers and mega bolter and it won't win.

I understand the worry that the loadout was chosen to beat it, but how is choosing the best loadout WAAC? It's simply logic, you take the best loadout. It's not like using loopholes to make it more powerful that it normally is or something.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Not the case. The math was done here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/664302.page#8133102

Only if you take the most Min Max OP WAAC loadout..

Take the standard fluff loadout of turbo lasers and mega bolter and it won't win.

I understand the worry that the loadout was chosen to beat it, but how is choosing the best loadout WAAC? It's simply logic, you take the best loadout. It's not like using loopholes to make it more powerful that it normally is or something.

Fair enough, I was overly harsh..

I still think it's a balance issue when you have to take the best loadout of a more expensive unit to beat the stock, fluff loadout of a cheaper unit.

this makes a 850 point stompa just look stupid

It's time to move supers back into apocalypse!

Yoyoyo wrote:
Not the case. The math was done here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/664302.page#8133102

I would like to see the calculation if the Ta'unar fired all of its weapons each turn. YMDC is still divided on the ruling if a GC can fire all of their weapons or not, and I am interested how it would differ.

 Nilok wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Not the case. The math was done here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/664302.page#8133102

I would like to see the calculation if the Ta'unar fired all of its weapons each turn. YMDC is still divided on the ruling if a GC can fire all of their weapons or not, and I am interested how it would differ.

In addition to that, you should add some deep striking double fusion blaster Crisis suits and a marker drone or two to assist the Ta'unar with the points difference between it and the Warhound. It would be pretty absurd if the Ta'unar straight up beat a 25% more expensive Titan that's widely been considered pretty points efficient for a big Forgeworld model.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I don't see what a freakshow list is supposed to do to this. It's fearless, with leadership 9. And it has 10 wounds. And a 4++/5+fnp. And ignores cover.

A Freakshow list, provided some luck on the psychic powers as always can practically kill it off in a single turn. Being Fearless does not mean being invulnerable to LD tactics.

Horrify lowers LD by 3.
Armor of Misery by 2.
Mask of Secrets by 2.

-7 LD so now has only an LD of 2.

Psychic Shriek, The sum of 3D6 -2 is the number of wounds taken with no armor or cover. That is one aspect but the best is Mirror of Minds. With -7 LD it has become mathematically impossible for the target to survive. Sure your opponent can be a dick and still make the rolls and save but the conclusion is inevitable. It will die.

Mirror of Minds is a focused witchfire. Once the power cast, the caster and target are "locked" in psychic combat. Each roll a D6 + LD so maximum of 8 for the Tau (with the -7 LD) vs D6 + 10 for the Shadowseer.
If the Tau rolls equals or below the Shadowseer it takes a wound with no armor or cover and the process is repeated UNTIL either the Tau dies OR rolls higher which mathematically cannot happen. Sure the guy can make a couple of saves or FnP and then what? The power keeps triggering because the only two escape clauses are superior dice roll (impossible) or death (inevitable).

This works against Wraithknights as well. A properly executed Mirror of Minds is a sureshot BUT it will kill one model not a squad. It's good for HQs or problematic MCs, GMCs.

That's a perfect solution, but that actually sound freakishly OP.

Just imagine the rage of a person fielding this who gets hit with that.

What's its leadership? Maybe Ahriman could triple scream if off the table??? Or at least cripple it enough and let the predators finish it???

LD9. Psychic scream is a shooting attack, meaning you need about 30 wounds to drop it.

It's one of the better methods for sure. For comparison:

35 Grav shots w/amps (rerolls hits, rerolls wounds)
54 regular Grav shots (no rerolls at all)
10 ranged hits from D-Weapons (each 6 rolled drops this by 5)
8 melee hits from D-weapons (each 6 rolled drops this by 4)
20 S10 AP2 attacks with Instant Death (WS4, reroll hits)
40 S10 AP2 attacks without Instant Death (WS4, reroll hits)
30 wounds from Psychic Shriek (calculated as a 4++ save)
135 Lasgun shots with rending (rerolls hits, rerolls wounds)
85 melee attacks with either rending or S6 AP2 (WS4, reroll hits, reroll wounds)

My math is pretty fast and loose but that's the ballpark figures.

Arcanii wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
quote=Desubot 664321 8134027 41f4b2ef0ea46e830f5d15c6b3835a5e.jpg]



its Grav cents and sky hammer.

Grav cents should alone deal about 4-5 unsaved wounds each. id probably bring two or three and the sky hammer (assuming we are talking "competative play") your fire base has to intercept at least 3 of these units not to die. and the Devs can be further MSUed if they want. its 1500 points of grav spam.

I don't know how you think 10 devestators and some grav cents will survive lol.

1850

HQ
Commander (plasma x2, EWO, xv84 suit)
Troop
Crisis Team x3 (plasma x6, EWO x3)
Kroot x10
Kroot x10
FA
Tetra
Tetra
HS
Skyray
Supremacy Battlesuit x1

Formation - Firebase Cadre
Riptide (EA/IA)
Missileside w/ EWO x6

Here's an 1850 list and If I knew I was playing your list I'd just make it all EWO suits with plasma

the missilesides alone will wipe out the skyhammer devs

now you're telling me 3 grav cents will survive:

a riptide with an IA blast and TL plasma shots
plus a unit of 4 crisis suits with plasma +ewo + networked marker light?

you will have brought 1,000 points worth of grav guns that are on only 13 models and now you've got 850 points on the table of what left?



(so many edits I couldn't figure out quotes and just kept submitting my changes not using preview lol)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone realized that with having this is a tau army you've got a 7 inch D blast template that ignores cover with the use of markerlights?

going to be pretty hilarious wiping out armies of jet bikes and bikes when they cant jink save.

back from the weekend
edit: hang on so you are list tailoring your army against drop armies and telling me that drop armies wont do good? is EWO crisis suits a thing now?

The broadsides will most likely target the Grav devs but there will be 2 to 4 units of them. you are not whiping all of them out if they MSU.

Then you have to deal with a single shot overheating large blast template that will most likely only hit two grav cents at best. with no guarantee that you will get the 24" plasma gun shot.

on top of the fact that they can get cover from the drop pods they come in with or any other terrain on table since you cant marker light during a EWO. and whatever is left you have two units of assault marines can go after whatever they want and ether lock up the riptide and broadsides (since they cant shoot for a turn) or perhaps the skyray and knock it out in combat.

back from the weekend
edit: hang on so you are list tailoring your army against drop armies and telling me that drop armies wont do good? is EWO crisis suits a thing now?

The broadsides will most likely target the Grav devs but there will be 2 to 4 units of them. you are not whiping all of them out if they MSU.

Then you have to deal with a single shot overheating large blast template that will most likely only hit two grav cents at best. with no guarantee that you will get the 24" plasma gun shot.

on top of the fact that they can get cover from the drop pods they come in with or any other terrain on table since you cant marker light during a EWO. and whatever is left you have two units of assault marines can go after whatever they want and ether lock up the riptide and broadsides (since they cant shoot for a turn) or perhaps the skyray and knock it out in combat.

Wait 3 weeks It will not surprise me in the slightest to see simple fire warriors getting interceptor. I would like to see skyhammer then. It sounds a double win for GW also. People already bought 5 x drop pods, why shouldn't they buy 3 boxes of fire warriors also???

topaxygouroun i wrote:

back from the weekend
edit: hang on so you are list tailoring your army against drop armies and telling me that drop armies wont do good? is EWO crisis suits a thing now?

The broadsides will most likely target the Grav devs but there will be 2 to 4 units of them. you are not whiping all of them out if they MSU.

Then you have to deal with a single shot overheating large blast template that will most likely only hit two grav cents at best. with no guarantee that you will get the 24" plasma gun shot.

on top of the fact that they can get cover from the drop pods they come in with or any other terrain on table since you cant marker light during a EWO. and whatever is left you have two units of assault marines can go after whatever they want and ether lock up the riptide and broadsides (since they cant shoot for a turn) or perhaps the skyray and knock it out in combat.

Wait 3 weeks It will not surprise me in the slightest to see simple fire warriors getting interceptor. I would like to see skyhammer then. It sounds a double win for GW also. People already bought 5 x drop pods, why shouldn't they buy 3 boxes of fire warriors also???

Honestly i wouldnt put it past them to give USR Intercept on all tau things or suits. they already did with suits and multi trackers

As I'm a total newb at the moment, don't destroy me too much, but what about Predators or Dreadnoughts with Conversion Beamers? The farther away, the stronger the shot up to Str 10, ap 1...Could that help? 100+ inches outranges everything short of "unlimited"

The Scorpion wrote:
As I'm a total newb at the moment, don't destroy me too much, but what about Predators or Dreadnoughts with Conversion Beamers? The farther away, the stronger the shot up to Str 10, ap 1...Could that help? 100+ inches outranges everything short of "unlimited"

Unfortunately one S10 ap1 shot is not going to do much against this thing as it has 10 wounds, a 4+ save against shooting attacks, and FNP.


Assuming you hit it. It has 5/6 chance to do a wound, a 1/2 chance of being negated by the invulnerable save and a 1/3 chance of being save by FNP after that.

So one S10 ap1 shot does 0.138 wounds to it. You would need 72.46 S10 ap1 hits to kill it.

Assuming it can't stomp, multiple grey knights term/paladin squads with daemon hammers, activating force.

Assault centurions (lol, seriously, well, as a side note to take off it's last few wounds).

Large death company units with the +S combat tactics with lots of thunder hammers.

(All of these require a sufficient delivery to the target though)

At least 3 knights just launching at it (but not very point efficient.

Also, I mentioned this in the other threads about this in the rumours. With the way they can nerf D, plus the shots they can put out along with a D shot, could 3 of these things bring down a warlord (Void shields can get stripped by the smaller weapons and the arms). If not certainly a reaver. They can weather the D-attacks so well, maybe not enough for a warlord but a reaver is in trouble.

I have no idea how one would go about killing the thing, as I am definitely not confident with larger scale games where this thing would be present. But what I CAN say is use it as a firing magnet. Seriously. Looking at it's stats and rules, it can take a withering storm of heavy fire, and still shrug it off laughing, as well as BS2 overwatch to obliterate a fool-hardy squad of krak grenading veterans or something. Not to mention a 1/2 chance of ignoring all shooting damage with it's invuln save!

Ive already bought mine and honestly i cannot wait for the salt to come. 600 points will easily distract 1000 plus points per turn while my true threat (crisis suits) do the dirty work.

 Gray1378 wrote:
Ive already bought mine and honestly i cannot wait for the salt to come. 600 points will easily distract 1000 plus points per turn while my true threat (crisis suits) do the dirty work.

Don't sell him short. He is a true threat.

And he is JY2. Im not trying to understate its ability, im looking at the fire power and the fact that the D weapon is a pulse weapon (ethereal anyone) . I still think the strength will be in our suits. This is all speculation as we do not have our new dex yet.

For killing big scary things im glad we have something to make them quake in their boots

I'm wondering about the viability of tar pitting it, as there seems to be few other options for CC armies.

Neat model, neat rules...

It gets stomp so i doubt tarpitting it will be effective

 Gray1378 wrote:
It gets stomp so i doubt tarpitting it will be effective

Assuming you can even get close enough to it. And it doesn't have marker drones giving it fire support.

this makes a 850 point stompa just look stupid

Actually, I reckon a stompa can probably handle this thing fairly effectively - barring a deathblow hit with the mass drivers, it's probably going to take more than two turns of fire to kill a stompa, even one without power fields/meks/force fields/etc, and if the stompa makes it into contact with even three or four hull points remaining it's still going to kill this thing dead.

Ditto - randomly - the Lord Of Skulls. Again, it can take two turns of fire (probably) and can Thunderblitz straight through any bubblewrap of kroot/drones/etc you choose to put in its way.

Just thought about something in regards to the historical way Tau would take down Titans with aircraft.... Their aircraft would really struggle to take this down within a decent amount of turns due to it's shield system, and amount of wounds.

Their aircraft in game would struggle to take down a lot of things.

On the topic of the Ta'unar, I do not like fluff they put in for it. Just doesn't vibe.

I think the model is pretty interesting looking though, although I doubt I would ever get it. The stats are a bit OP, but in this day and age of GMC's and SHV's in normal play something had to be made to bring tau to that level. I think this would be an excellent addition to a tau army in apoc games though. (Which is where all the SHV and GMC's belong)