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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/11 20:08:38
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Gertjan wrote:Towards the end of 2nd there was full Legion of the Damned army list in one of the WD's, can't recall the issue though. It was quite interesting.
Yeah, you're right... I was picturing the models from that one, but had attributed them to the Cursed Founding list
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 11:01:17
Subject: Re:Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Fixture of Dakka
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insaniak wrote: SirDonlad wrote: i remember having a dread with TL las and the ML at the same time and being chuffed that i'd chosen the 'right' chapter,
The second ed codex had that option, sure. But that's not a Mortis. The Mortis has the same ranged weapons on each arm... And that option came later.
Actually, no it didn't. I looked at Codex: Angels of Death. All it said for dreadnoughts was that they could take any two weapons from the list. No restriction on taking the same weapon on both arms, be that pairs of lascannon or pairs of power fists. The only restriction was that they didn't make left-handed twin lascannon or right-handed power fists.
The available models were:
Blood Angels: multimelta and power fist (as an aside, the term "Furioso" came from the studio model; the name on its back banner was "Furioso")
Space Wolves: Bjorn the Fell-Handed with assault cannon and lightning claw
Ultramarines: assault cannon and power fist
Dark Angels: twin lascannon and missile launcher.
You could mix and match most of those (apart from Bjorn's lighting claw arm, as it had a big wolfskin draped over it), but anything else would be a difficult and somewhat expensive conversion.
However, "Mortis Dreadnought" was a term introduced by Forge World.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/12 11:02:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 11:33:13
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Y' know, I actually just remembered that I even had a Dreadnought back then with a heavy plasma gun on each arm... Had completely forgotten about that, as I replaced one of them with a missile launcher years ago
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 12:02:11
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Leader of the Sept
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With all the Terminator notes earlier, I didn't see one to the Khorne Terminators who had a 2+ save on 2D6... Lasguns actually couldn't hurt them.
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Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 19:03:30
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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Flinty wrote:With all the Terminator notes earlier, I didn't see one to the Khorne Terminators who had a 2+ save on 2D6... Lasguns actually couldn't hurt them.
Lasguns could hurt a 2+ save on 2d6. Lasguns had a -1 save modifier (nearly every basic weapon did, which was the main problem with the save modifier system at the time, modifiers should have been reserved for special and heavy weapons).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 19:17:08
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Guardsmen in close combat wouldn't have been able to hurt them, though, as close combat modifiers started at S4, other than for special weapons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 19:18:53
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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insaniak wrote:Guardsmen in close combat wouldn't have been able to hurt them, though, as close combat modifiers started at S4, other than for special weapons.
True, but guardsmen in CC with Khorne terminators wouldn't likely garner any hits to begin with. Lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 19:46:17
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Yeah, CC was super duper lopsided in 2nd. One of the things that ruined the game for me.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/12 19:46:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 21:00:04
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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docdoom77 wrote: Flinty wrote:With all the Terminator notes earlier, I didn't see one to the Khorne Terminators who had a 2+ save on 2D6... Lasguns actually couldn't hurt them.
Lasguns could hurt a 2+ save on 2d6. Lasguns had a -1 save modifier (nearly every basic weapon did, which was the main problem with the save modifier system at the time, modifiers should have been reserved for special and heavy weapons).
I think the save modifier system was vastly superior to the AP system, but yeah, modifiers were given out too liberally. Most things that were -1 should have had no modifier and most things that were -2 should have been -1.
I think that's why most people don't like the idea of modifiers, too many people remember Space Marines that were effectively 4+ save.
But I still like it way more than the AP system, the AP system is just inherently unbalanced.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 21:34:39
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Martel732 wrote:Yeah, CC was super duper lopsided in 2nd. One of the things that ruined the game for me.
See, I actually quite liked that aspect of it. When Guard were in close combat, you knew that something had gone horribly, horribly wrong...
They could still do ok, but had to be judicious with their use of their heroes... Throw enough meat shields at the enemy to build up their (comparitively) weaker characters with multiple opponent bonuses. The grunts would all die horrible gruesome deaths so that the commissars and officers could get the glory.
And the more dedicated close combat beasts (like Bloodthirsters, and Eversor Assassins) were truly frightening, and as a result you were forced to think really hard about trying to engage them up close...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 22:07:16
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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CC is still pretty lopsided, but not even being able to land a hit is just super humiliating.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 22:11:21
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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I used to love the parry rules. Combat would go on for several hours...
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15k+
3k+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 22:20:38
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Martel732 wrote:CC is still pretty lopsided, but not even being able to land a hit is just super humiliating.
Sure... but in certain cases, that's exactly how it should be. Again, the system rewarded you for flooding them with bodies in that situation.
Unless you were fighting the Eversor, in which case he got bonuses for you having weight of numbers as well... That guy was just nuts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/12 22:22:37
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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insaniak wrote:Martel732 wrote:CC is still pretty lopsided, but not even being able to land a hit is just super humiliating.
Sure... but in certain cases, that's exactly how it should be. Again, the system rewarded you for flooding them with bodies in that situation.
Unless you were fighting the Eversor, in which case he got bonuses for you having weight of numbers as well... That guy was just nuts.
Yeah. I was just on the wrong end of Tyranids way too many times to ever support that CC system.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 02:19:50
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Orlando
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There was a Mortis Dread in a white dwarf with assaultcannons on each arm. It was restricted to either DA or BA, I dont remember which. But Assault weapons being the god weapons of 2nd made it a horribly OP unit but it had less than a 6 month lifespan before 3rd came out like so many other things they pumped out in the last few months. I actually never saw one on the field.
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If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 04:44:53
Subject: Re:Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Fixture of Dakka
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Warboss Gobslag wrote:
Then of course there was the vortex grenade. 1 1/2 inch blast area, if the model is hit it dies no exception. Then it could start to wonder around the table randomly.
Oh, how I miss vortex grenades. Would be so much fun in this era of titans and superheavies
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 04:51:17
Subject: Re:Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Stabbin' Skarboy
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I'm back into the hobby after a 20 year hiatus, and realized after reading this thread that despite playing until about '96, I only ever used the 1st edition rulebook. At the time, I wasn't even aware that a new rulebook had come out! Ah the days before the internet.
My ork army topped out at 3 painboyz, 2 meks (1 w/ shokk attack gun), 1 nob on a bike, 2 regular boyz, 5 boyz in 'eavy armor, 1 freeboota kaptin, a dreadnought, a trukk, and 2 ogryns. Back then, a game with an army that size typically took all night. I also inherited a small IG army (complete w/ a squat squad), some random chaos marines, some harlequins, and a Greater Demon of Slaneesh. Good times!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 07:22:02
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Angelic Adepta Sororitas
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Vortex grenades with a jumppack Captain could take out entire armies, lol.
I wish I hadn't sold all my 2nd ed codex's and stuff. I also have very few of my 2nd ed models, other than rhinos, Laz/please Razorback, one Land Raider, some Termies (like 50, lol some), a few dreads, a few random orks, and the old terminator inquisitor and daemonhunter models.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 11:04:45
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Leader of the Sept
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My favourite character was a Master Librarian with terminator armour, warp jump and psycannon. Teleporting psyker assassination a specialty
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Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 11:56:40
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Orlando
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How are you taking out entire armies with a vortex grenade? You only got one and yes it would kill pretty much anything you dropped it on and used right and there goes the super character, but the rest of the army would still be there. We always banned vortex grenades though. The funny part was when someone expected a vortex grenade and brought a Vortex Grenade activator(probably had a real name). You had to get I think either 6" or 12" from the carrier and the grenade went off automatically in their hands.
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If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 17:52:56
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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AllSeeingSkink wrote: docdoom77 wrote: Flinty wrote:With all the Terminator notes earlier, I didn't see one to the Khorne Terminators who had a 2+ save on 2D6... Lasguns actually couldn't hurt them.
Lasguns could hurt a 2+ save on 2d6. Lasguns had a -1 save modifier (nearly every basic weapon did, which was the main problem with the save modifier system at the time, modifiers should have been reserved for special and heavy weapons).
I think the save modifier system was vastly superior to the AP system, but yeah, modifiers were given out too liberally. Most things that were -1 should have had no modifier and most things that were -2 should have been -1.
I think that's why most people don't like the idea of modifiers, too many people remember Space Marines that were effectively 4+ save.
But I still like it way more than the AP system, the AP system is just inherently unbalanced.
I agree completely. I would bring back the modifier system in a heat-beat given the chance, just at much lower values. Nearly all basic weapons would be no modifier, Heavy Anti-infantry (like heavy bolters) would be -1, anti-tank weapons in the -3/-4 range, etc.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 18:29:27
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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2nd edition was all about removing models from the table.
Things died, easily and a lot.
The vehicles has "more realistic" movement with stationary + iirc 3 movement speeds which determined how many turns they could do, and there was a turn thing for wheeling vehicles, instead of pivotting about the center.
ironically psychic powers now are fairly similar, as they are randomly selected as well.
Most armies has some unit that was good at killing other things easily, this unit was often not a character.
Orks had pulsa rokkits, which if you understood math when making firing predictions meant you would probably win the game if you used them and had a lot.
Tyranids got gargoyles in the mid of 2nd edition from a WD, they used to fire a template that forced models to move, and you could force models off the table with it with no LD roll.
Warp spiders, were utterly ridiculous and would pretty much kill any non vehicle with their templates once you fired a squad of 5 of them at something, every model had to take multile I tests with penalties, failure was pretty much death regardless of wounds.
Assault cannons, rolled iirc 3 sustained fire dice, which often resulted in doing 6 hits, but sometimes 9 hits or a bunch of jams. The way shooting worked is you rolled to hit, if you hit you hit with all the dice, or none. Which was gak and made no sense....anyways with save modifiers each shot ignored armor of any model with a 3+ save.
in general save modifiers were bad, and made most models effectively have the same save after being shot by anything. The modifier system does not work with d6, maybe d20. Which is why you saw lots of terminators, and the squat exo armors. 3+ save on 2d6 means you had an unit that could survive being shot at by heavy bolters. Normal marines had a 6+ save versus heavy bolters...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 19:10:05
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Col. Dash wrote:How are you taking out entire armies with a vortex grenade? You only got one...
Well, technically you could have two, as there were two cards. Plus the Vortex psychic power, which was the same thing in psychic form...
Because they stayed on the board and roamed around, you could potentially do a lot of unexpected damage with them... But yeah, taking out a whole army with it would take some luck.
The funny part was when someone expected a vortex grenade and brought a Vortex Grenade activator(probably had a real name).
Vortex Detonator.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Col. Dash wrote:There was a Mortis Dread in a white dwarf with assaultcannons on each arm. It was restricted to either DA or BA, I dont remember which.
As was already pointed out, the Dark Angels dread had access to twinned ranged weapons in the codex... It just wasn't called a 'Mortis'.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/13 19:13:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 23:42:57
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Martial Arts Fiday
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Heavy Bolters and Warp Spiders were -2 hardly "pretty much death".
The thing is, there were also modifiers on the "to-hit" roll as well. It wasn't a 3+ freeforall like we have now. It was harder to hit and harder to save against. Cover was WAY more important to everybody, not just troops with gak armor. Anything in the open was DEAD. Which makes sense for the types of weapons in the game.
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"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
warboss wrote:
GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up. 
Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 03:44:28
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
New Zealand
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SlaveToDorkness wrote:Heavy Bolters and Warp Spiders were -2 hardly "pretty much death". The thing is, there were also modifiers on the "to-hit" roll as well. It wasn't a 3+ freeforall like we have now. It was harder to hit and harder to save against. Cover was WAY more important to everybody, not just troops with gak armor. Anything in the open was DEAD. Which makes sense for the types of weapons in the game. Guns had their own hit modifiers built in as well, shotguns were something like +2 to hit at close range 0-6" IIRC. Also 2nd ed. had things like muskets and crossbows, which is awesome.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/14 03:45:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 04:06:36
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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Children, gather around. For I shall tell you a tale of another age. GW were full of fresh and creative young minds and some smarty. The models were toys colored brite and glossy. The figures extravagant and cartoony.
The rule books were short and filled with pictures looney. The players were nice and never rudey. Time to plau the game was shorty. Many armies where not so shooty.
Yes this was the time before Matt Wardy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 04:17:45
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Fixture of Dakka
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Virus grenades were the ticket early on in 2nd. I don't know how many Ork, IG, and Squat armies were almost wiped out on turn one by an Assassin dropping the disguise and popping one of those babies.
I remember an old White Dwarf battle report between Andy Chambers running Space Wolves and Jervis Johnson running Orks.
At one point, a virus grenade was tossed into the Orks, and only killed six. Anyone who played the game back then realized at that moment that the reports were rigged.
Then there was the "Grand Warlord", Adrian Wood, who could never seem to win a battle report...
I also liked the cardboard buildings that came with the beginner set. You and your opponent could pretty much populate the table with the buildings and after the game. put everything away pretty easily.
I'm going to have to pull my 2nd edition stuff down from the shelf now and get some games going with my group.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/10/14 04:26:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 13:10:36
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Martial Arts Fiday
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Yeah, we totally banned Virus Grenade (and the strategy card Virus Outbreak). It would either wipe out an entire army or do nothing at all, depending on whether the faction you played had sealed armor or not.
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"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
warboss wrote:
GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up. 
Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 14:00:03
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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SlaveToDorkness wrote:Yeah, we totally banned Virus Grenade (and the strategy card Virus Outbreak). It would either wipe out an entire army or do nothing at all, depending on whether the faction you played had sealed armor or not.
Same here. They actually admitted Virus Outbreak was a mistake and told everyone to rip it up in a White Dwarf article. I took great pleasure in doing just that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 17:29:22
Subject: Tell me about 2nd ed 40k
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Revving Ravenwing Biker
England
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I heard about that.
Are the remaining cards going for huge prices on eBay now?
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Don't believe me? It's all in the numbers.
Number 1: That's terror.
Number 2: That's terror.
Dark Angels/Angels of Vengeance combo - ???? - Input wanted! |
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