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2016/02/19 14:42:36
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
migooo wrote: thanks i know that anybody who tries to defend what they like is creepy or a creep.
Oh thanks goodness no! Not all of them by any margin.
migooo wrote: people who start collecting and want it to open up more fine
What about the numerous people that started collecting long ago and want it to open up more?
migooo wrote: i can understand but look at comics that have been sanitized there sales fall fact.
Hu, what? Okay, I think this calls for another topic, in Off-Topic or elsewhere. Or maybe PM.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/02/19 14:43:27
Subject: Re:Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
Hey ho everyone. Something really interesting and IMPORTANT is happening now at the studio and I want YOU to become a art of it. ~
We've heard that some of our buyers write on the forum that they're not satisfied with a size of the "breast" of our miniatures. The majority consider it's too big.
Being a Page Admin (and a girl) means that I see a lot of those 3D\plastic boobies during the day and personally, I'd defend the original (big) size of our last hottie.
I ask you to join our discussion and share your thoughts about the size of miniatures' breast.
Thank you heart emoticon
migooo wrote: *Twitch* okay that is idiotic that picture is so stupid.
My reaction is similar but it does make the point.
I've collected comics since the early 90s I saw greats such as power girl become nothing more than a SJW target to completely changing into that thing it is now.
I guess I could state a similar experience.
I hate what people do to niche hobbies. They come in having perceived ideas not knowing anything about it but because they see a sexy woman its bad. You know it's a drawing right? Not real, fake, imaginary, all of these and still its bad. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not as if your gonna buy the sanitized version. No wonder comics and games are in trouble. Go protest some actual problems you know like actual violence.
I would not get into that assumption of "not knowing anything about it", you have no idea how wrong you are.
In this case to be on topic we are talking about big bare or nothing-to-the-imagination torso miniatures targeted at teenagers (Warhammer 40k).
It IS also like I would buy the "sanitized" version, I think they would look better.
It would be nice to have a few models that happen to be strong female characters who are not prancing around in little more than a metal bikini while the guys are wearing combat armor (darn crazy women I tell you...).
I am not "protesting" but pointing out preference.
If you plan on gaming with these pieces in public, something a little less nippily may be in order.
If it is for your private collection, who are we to argue with what you do in your own home?
I do not see how games and comics are in trouble on this particular topic, I thought the real threat is the distraction of electronics decreasing fan-base for those media forms.
migooo wrote: *Twitch* okay that is idiotic that picture is so stupid.
My reaction is similar but it does make the point.
I've collected comics since the early 90s I saw greats such as power girl become nothing more than a SJW target to completely changing into that thing it is now.
I guess I could state a similar experience.
I hate what people do to niche hobbies. They come in having perceived ideas not knowing anything about it but because they see a sexy woman its bad. You know it's a drawing right? Not real, fake, imaginary, all of these and still its bad. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not as if your gonna buy the sanitized version. No wonder comics and games are in trouble. Go protest some actual problems you know like actual violence.
I would not get into that assumption of "not knowing anything about it", you have no idea how wrong you are.
In this case to be on topic we are talking about big bare or nothing-to-the-imagination torso miniatures targeted at teenagers (Warhammer 40k).
It IS also like I would buy the "sanitized" version, I think they would look better.
It would be nice to have a few models that happen to be strong female characters who are not prancing around in little more than a metal bikini while the guys are wearing combat armor (darn crazy women I tell you...).
I am not "protesting" but pointing out preference.
If you plan on gaming with these pieces in public, something a little less nippily may be in order.
If it is for your private collection, who are we to argue with what you do in your own home?
I do not see how games and comics are in trouble on this particular topic, I thought the real threat is the distraction of electronics decreasing fan-base for those media forms.
see those i completley agree with. I dont own any but id probably buy a few bits for my collection. but no i dont think id play with them. I have some Chronoscope sisters of the wolf that id never use in public now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fugazi wrote: I thought they kept their armor but replaced the left shoulder pad with a DW one. Is that not the case?
wrong topic maybe?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/19 14:56:49
2016/02/19 14:57:58
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
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2016/02/19 15:01:38
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
Migooo, female characters in some part of geeky fiction are displayed massively differently and in a way, way more sexualized fashion than male characters. That does included comic books (though not all of them, thanks Glory), and models (not all of them either, thankfully, but the miniatures that are the subject of this thread are a very good example). Some people are going to call out and complain about the difference in treatment. And some of the people complaining will be more invested and knowledgeable in those hobbies than you are.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/19 15:04:58
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/02/19 15:05:25
Subject: Re:Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
Not sure if this has been shared yet, a thousand pardons if this has been put up somewhere in the gak, but a slew of new releases for Space Marines and those clad in Tactical Dreadnought Armour: http://wargameexclusive.com/product-tag/new/
Several sets of heads and five types of terminator torso!
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2016/02/19 15:08:59
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
Talizvar wrote: In this case to be on topic we are talking about big bare or nothing-to-the-imagination torso miniatures targeted at teenagers (Warhammer 40k).
The target market is subjective and I don't think the target market is teenagers at all. For one thing, they aren't the ones with the money doing the buying. For another with ipads, cell phones and computers (almost every teenager has at least one of those) free internet pictures are all over. Just because there are breasts doesn't mean the target is adolescence teenagers, it just doesn't make any sense.
This just might end up being what I get next:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/19 15:12:50
2016/02/19 15:14:50
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
migooo wrote:*Twitch* okay that is idiotic that picture is so stupid. I've collected comics since the early 90s I saw greats such as power girl become nothing more than a SJW target to completely changing into that thing it is now. I hate what people do to niche hobbies. They come in having perceived ideas not knowing anything about it but because they see a sexy woman its bad. You know it's a drawing right? Not real, fake, imaginary, all of these and still its bad. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not as if your gonna buy the sanitized version. No wonder comics and games are in trouble. Go protest some actual problems you know like actual violence.
Same thing with every guy being either insanely muscular or comic relief.
I'd also say that 'SJW' is a pretty troll-ish term only ever used as a way of avoiding having a discussion.
Hey ho everyone. Something really interesting and IMPORTANT is happening now at the studio and I want YOU to become a art of it. ~ We've heard that some of our buyers write on the forum that they're not satisfied with a size of the "breast" of our miniatures. The majority consider it's too big. Being a Page Admin (and a girl) means that I see a lot of those 3D\plastic boobies during the day and personally, I'd defend the original (big) size of our last hottie. I ask you to join our discussion and share your thoughts about the size of miniatures' breast. Thank you heart emoticon
This is actually brilliant. Again, I'd argue that the size of boobs, or nudity itself, isn't really the issue. You could do a naked woman with big boobs in a non-sexualised pose and people likely wouldn't have a problem. But still, good to see that WE are taking customer complaints seriously without yelling at anyone, or claiming that everyone who doesn't like the models is just worried about children seeing them. Which is a hell of a lot better than the response Prodos gave!
Another brilliant car. Just wish they were a LITTLE bigger....
BrookM wrote: To me they're just fancy terrain pieces right now, though they do scream for a ruleset that allows use of them on the tabletop.
I was hoping to use the 4x4s as Tauroxes, but they're a bit too small. They might work well as FW Tauros alternates, though - the FW models are actually quite small...
EDITS: For all the appended extra posts!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/02/19 15:26:12
Talizvar wrote: In this case to be on topic we are talking about big bare or nothing-to-the-imagination torso miniatures targeted at teenagers (Warhammer 40k).
The target market is subjective and I don't think the target market is teenagers at all. For one thing, they aren't the ones with the money doing the buying. For another with ipads, cell phones and computers (almost every teenager has at least one of those) free internet pictures are all over. Just because there are breasts doesn't mean the target is adolescence teenagers, it just doesn't make any sense.
I should have been more clear that with GW, teenagers ARE the target market (as stated with their financial reports).
These items on offer have a more "adult" topic and cost to them so I can agree the target is a bit different with these alternate models.
I was just stating that in the forum of playing the game at a FLGS within the confines of a game targeting teenagers, some of them run the risk of being unsuitable for a space where "children" play.
As pointed out, I would really like some more combat ready versions of these models: they look great but the pin-up-girl look interferes with the serious business of wargaming. I want the alternative offering as well, not the banning of cheesecake.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2016/02/19 16:06:49
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
Talizvar wrote: In this case to be on topic we are talking about big bare or nothing-to-the-imagination torso miniatures targeted at teenagers (Warhammer 40k).
The target market is subjective and I don't think the target market is teenagers at all. For one thing, they aren't the ones with the money doing the buying. For another with ipads, cell phones and computers (almost every teenager has at least one of those) free internet pictures are all over. Just because there are breasts doesn't mean the target is adolescence teenagers, it just doesn't make any sense.
I should have been more clear that with GW, teenagers ARE the target market (as stated with their financial reports).
These items on offer have a more "adult" topic and cost to them so I can agree the target is a bit different with these alternate models.
I was just stating that in the forum of playing the game at a FLGS within the confines of a game targeting teenagers, some of them run the risk of being unsuitable for a space where "children" play.
As pointed out, I would really like some more combat ready versions of these models: they look great but the pin-up-girl look interferes with the serious business of wargaming. I want the alternative offering as well, not the banning of cheesecake.
I Just backed shieldwolf because of their Amazon kit. And most importantly i love their options of covering midrifs and bear, new heads all of it. but id wan't a pin up version of the kit too. and while id probably use the pin up for display id use the other for Mordhiem or skirmish, probably frostgrave honestly. I like options options are good. I just think theres room for both some however dont.
2016/02/19 16:18:39
Subject: Re:Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
Ffyllotek wrote: I've bought the female overlord, no nipples are protruding, might just be how they look on the photo?
Proturiding was probably the incorrect term for that particular set of models. They are smooth, but there are circles (grooves) that basically outline them giving that look and clearly identifying what they would be. Painting wouldn't simply mask or cover it, it would need some liquid green stuff to make it flush like Black Widow version.
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: It seems like - if someone doesn't like a sculpting style, or the company botched a recent Kickstarter - they get an extra heaping of sanctimonious fire while other companies get a pass.
That is not entirely true. Raging Heroes and Kingdom Death all had similar discussions, even the first few posts in this thread briefly touched on it. Some figures were a bit much and others were great sculpts and that was that.
In this thread we just have the discussion of those that like the miniatures, those that don't because of boobs, and then there is the cars which are really cool. That is pretty much it.
In the Prodos thread you have the above but a lot more than that which creates a lot more discussion. As it was already summed in that thread, there are multiple camps of posters in the Prodos thread.
1: Actually disliking the miniatures.
2: Liking the miniatures but being upset at the missed opportunity. Sisters players looking for good proxies go in here, but Prodos said they'll bring out armoured versions so this is a bit of a non issue unless you take issue with their poses, which aren't gritty combat stances - in which case that's number 1.
3: Virtue Signalling - being seen to reject what are admittedly highly sexualised toy soldiers for one of the following causes:
-- 3a: Moral outrage - sexuality is bad.
-- 3b: Social Justice - these women are sexy which reduces women to objects, women should only be sexy when they so choose and for reasons which I find valid.
-- 3c: Space marines are Serious Business - this reinforces the idea that wargamers are just lonely losers and now nobody will take my hobby of collecting and playing with toy space soldiers seriously.
4: Not erotic enough. Why stop at bare midriffs and thighs?
5: The armour is not logical. Rather than a resistance to the form, its a resistance to the lack of function. Whether the glaring vulnerabilities which could be waved away in fantasy setting's chain mail bikini or spine crushing weight the lack of support between the boots and chestplate would place on the girls shoulders, the internal inconsistency of power armored lingerie is too much to suspend disbelief. This ties in with 2.
6: Fans and Not-Fans of Prodos' other projects are either aggrieved that effort is going into this with promises unfulfilled elsewhere or advising others to be wary of said unfulfilled promises.
7: It isn't Space Crusade and thus childhood memories stained now with objectified boobs on armor.
That's true - I guess there's a preferential attachment process at work. The more tangential issues there are associated with a manufacturer/sculptor, the more discussion that thread is going to get which is going to keep pushing it to the top of the boards, which gets attention from random people who might have otherwise never opened the thread - and these people weigh in on the aesthetics of the models, which drives yet more discussion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/19 16:19:22
2016/02/19 17:50:36
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
BrookM wrote: To me they're just fancy terrain pieces right now, though they do scream for a ruleset that allows use of them on the tabletop.
Are you looking for rules for the vehicles in their own little vehicle skirmish game with a few pieces or something more centered in integrating these into a current WH40K game?
2016/02/19 22:16:17
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
My good lady loves the cars, and rolls her eyes at some (not all) of the accompanying ladies. (She likes the one with the scroll - which came with the first car that I got her.)
Me, I think that the cars are really silly... but I like them anyway - and, for these releases - the cars are more important than the ladies.
The Auld Grump, even if the cars do make me play the theme from The Munsters in my head....
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2016/02/22 01:00:24
Subject: Re:Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
WOW, that SOB bike is sex on wheels. Time to scour these guys stock again.
EDIT: As to the "other" conversation.. please stop trying to bring social issues into this thread. If you don't like the models, that's your own personal choice. The bickering about what everyone thinks about bra sizes is tiring. One of the best aspects of living in a free world is being able to think for yourself and not have to have your views fed to you by others. If someone doesn't like these models for ANY reason.. please just take it to the company. Don't make a spectacle out of it in a freaking News and Rumor thread.
Here's an example of how to talk about liking or disliking something in a way conducive to conversation.
I like how inventive a lot of their sculpts are. They're super characterful and they take different approaches to something we've all seen done to death and somehow keep it fresh. I'm not a fan of some of their choices on proportions but just like double bacon cheeseburgers with onion rings and jalapenos, if I don't like it I can simply not purchase it
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/22 06:39:07
MLaw wrote: I like how inventive a lot of their sculpts are. They're super characterful and they take different approaches to something we've all seen done to death and somehow keep it fresh.
Dude, if you like the models, that's your own personal choice. One of the best aspects of living in a free world is being able to think for yourself and not have to have your views fed to you by others. If you like these models for ANY reason.. please just take it to the company. Don't make a spectacle out of it in a freaking News and Rumor thread.
Just take it to the company and stop sullying this thread about a model range with opinions about those models. What do you think this is, a discussion forum?
Same thing with every guy being either insanely muscular or comic relief.
It is not "a thing", bare boobs on a 28mm plastic model is not "actual violence" nor does it promote rape. If you seriously look at one of those models and think - because of how the model is presented - to yourself "I guess rape is OK, right?" - you really REALLY need to seek help.
I'd also say that 'SJW' is a pretty troll-ish term only ever used as a way of avoiding having a discussion.
The term "SJW" is mostly derogative, I'll agree to that - but what else do you want to call this movement? There simply isn't another term I'm aware of that describes it. And the negative connotation to "SJW" is in parts based on the behaviour of that movement.
Since WE seems to be open to feedback (which in itself is great, by the way!), I'll add my opinion:
I've bought I think 6 miniatures off of WE, and the one and only thing I dislike about them is the oversexualization - it really detracts from the overall great quality to have boobs almost jumping into your face. I've resorted to greenstuff to somewhat fix it, but I'm not really talented at converting and probably ruined them (still have to clean up und paint them).
I'd pick up a whole bunch of Guard/Inquisition/Mechanicum/Sisters models (including the ones I already have) if they came out with natural proportions and in a "decently armoured/clothed" version. e.g. the Commissar with the Grenade Launcher is great ASIDE from the ridiculous boobs. For me that makes the entire model unusable, and converting it to a more reasonable chest area would just result in me destroying the miniature.
Even worse is the Eradicator Squad - I'd love to use them as Ordo Xenos Inquisitors with Conversion Beamers, but making them halfway decent is simply outside of my abilities sadly.
I wish there were different versions - "Regular", "Pin-Up" and "Naked", with the regular line having regular proportions and the later two being the usual WE currently available. I don't have kids nor do I play in your regular GW store where kids are around, it's just that I prefer more natural models / poses. Victoria Miniatures does a great job at that, which is why I've spent way too much on my guard infantry (Arcadians).
2016/02/22 12:39:15
Subject: Wargame Exclusive-Female models and 40k cars, new car pg 5
It's good to see Wargame Exclusive expanding their range. They always struck me as very well-made, just let down by their, uh, "art direction". I'm fine with cheesecake, but a lot of the women are just absurd looking*. Which is a real shame, especially given how excellent the other design elements are. Cheesecake is hard to do well without coming across as just plain silly.
It'd be nice to get a sort of "Cheesecake Version" and normal version of certain things. It'd make the cheesecake less blatant, more tongue-in-cheek, and give the option for those who like it, while still having very nice models with a serious design. I'd adore those female Inquisitors if they looked more serious. Sexy armour is fine - Inquisitors are damn stylish, after all - but those just really throw me off. Incidentally, since Wargame Exclusive did a "sexy Shadowsun" based on that one fanart floating around, might we get such things as a faithful model of Inquisitor Adrastia from Dawn of War 2? And with the new (very lovely) Chaos conversion bits, they certainly have the production capacity to do some gorgeous-but-realistic Sisters.
* Still a lot better than Prodos' "Space Crusaders".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/22 16:28:45
