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DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Stims on an HBC even in the formation are very, very crucial. HBC riptides take a lot more damage than Iontides both because of the mass of Gets Hot, required Nova tests, but also because they sit closer than Iontides.

The stims on the Iontides could be dropped to shave points, since its not AS crucial, but if you arent stressed for points i'd keep them. I usually dont even fill that 2nd support slot if i opt out of stims because nothing else really works (cant precision shot a blast and its alone so no Targetlock requirement)

It might not be as bad in the Riptide wing, but ive ran the ECPA Bursttide a few times and he still takes a ton of self-inflicted damage. Stims are so mandatory on him imo.

Or you can boost your BS to 6 which allows you to reroll 1's to hit.

Never underestimate the HBC while Nova Charged. I recommend two of them.

1) ECPA rerolls 1s as it is, and i said i still take decent self-inflicted damage with it. It helps but it isnt foolproof.
2) He's a necron player allying in a Riptide Wing - he wont have marker support

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Stims on an HBC even in the formation are very, very crucial. HBC riptides take a lot more damage than Iontides both because of the mass of Gets Hot, required Nova tests, but also because they sit closer than Iontides.

The stims on the Iontides could be dropped to shave points, since its not AS crucial, but if you arent stressed for points i'd keep them. I usually dont even fill that 2nd support slot if i opt out of stims because nothing else really works (cant precision shot a blast and its alone so no Targetlock requirement)

It might not be as bad in the Riptide wing, but ive ran the ECPA Bursttide a few times and he still takes a ton of self-inflicted damage. Stims are so mandatory on him imo.

I still think it is a waste of points in the Riptide Wing. On average, you will be getting 2 gets hot rolls from 12 shots with the HBC. Since you have a 2+ armor save, you only have a 1/3 chance of a wound. So with FnP, you having a 1/9 chance of have FnP save a wound. Throughout the course of a game, if you fire it every turn and assuming 5 turns, Stimulant injectors have a 5/9 chance of saving one single wound from gets hots wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Stims on an HBC even in the formation are very, very crucial. HBC riptides take a lot more damage than Iontides both because of the mass of Gets Hot, required Nova tests, but also because they sit closer than Iontides.

The stims on the Iontides could be dropped to shave points, since its not AS crucial, but if you arent stressed for points i'd keep them. I usually dont even fill that 2nd support slot if i opt out of stims because nothing else really works (cant precision shot a blast and its alone so no Targetlock requirement)

It might not be as bad in the Riptide wing, but ive ran the ECPA Bursttide a few times and he still takes a ton of self-inflicted damage. Stims are so mandatory on him imo.

Or you can boost your BS to 6 which allows you to reroll 1's to hit.

Never underestimate the HBC while Nova Charged. I recommend two of them.

1) ECPA rerolls 1s as it is, and i said i still take decent self-inflicted damage with it. It helps but it isnt foolproof.
2) He's a necron player allying in a Riptide Wing - he wont have marker support

ECPA all but eliminate self damage. With 12 shots you get 2 gets hot. reroll those and you have a 1/3 chance of getting 1 gets hot. 2+ armor save makes that 1/18 chance of getting 1 wound with ECPA from gets hot from HBC

Well if he is a Necron Player, he'll have many other fast and pressing threats on the board. Personally, I vote against and never use stims on my riprides. It is far too expensive and Riptides are really durable without the feel no pain.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

2) He's a necron player allying in a Riptide Wing - he wont have marker support

I know you mean for competitive play... your friend is being "that guy" now though haha

Does he even need a riptide wing with necrons? I will be honest. I have never beaten crons with tau. I have had some disgustingly brutal games. I think the closest game I had was 19-21 in maelstrom points on turn 7 and we both had <10% of our lists left on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think I should add... I have not played necrons with the new tau formations though, that in itself could be a game changer.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

2) He's a necron player allying in a Riptide Wing - he wont have marker support

I know you mean for competitive play... your friend is being "that guy" now though haha

Does he even need a riptide wing with necrons? I will be honest. I have never beaten crons with tau. I have had some disgustingly brutal games. I think the closest game I had was 19-21 in maelstrom points on turn 7 and we both had <10% of our lists left on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think I should add... I have not played necrons with the new tau formations though, that in itself could be a game changer.

In a world where Wraithknights and Superfriends exists, I will vehemently state that using Allies of Convenience does not make me "that guy".

Necrons don't have much specialist or high strength shooting, our only option in that regard comes from Destroyers. Riptides are an alternative that have 2+/5++, longer range, Interceptor, and fun things like 3++ or the extra shooting attack from the Formation. I was considering bringing them so I could run out my midfield strength in Wraiths and durable Troops while still having good long range shooting from the 72" Riptides.

Plus, it allows me to make a cool conversion like this guy did

That's awesome!

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

2) He's a necron player allying in a Riptide Wing - he wont have marker support

I know you mean for competitive play... your friend is being "that guy" now though haha

Does he even need a riptide wing with necrons? I will be honest. I have never beaten crons with tau. I have had some disgustingly brutal games. I think the closest game I had was 19-21 in maelstrom points on turn 7 and we both had <10% of our lists left on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think I should add... I have not played necrons with the new tau formations though, that in itself could be a game changer.

Its not my friend its the guy in this forum i was referring to.

And two of the main players i face are necrons. I can assure you, our formations help but that damn 4+ Reanimate is still stupid as hell to get through.
My last game, 2k points. I killed like 10 models until the 5th turn then i finally got lucky and ravaged most of his army in one turn - still lost due to maelstrom cards (i stand by those missions removing any and all tactic because they basically hand you points way too often, while shafting the other guy).
Wraiths with a Reanimation is impossible to get through. Think i did 1 wound on them before i managed to get rid of that spider giving them them reanimate (he was hiding behind a rock out of sight)

I didn't see it mentioned, but I feel it's somewhat important. Just got my copy of Mont'ka today, and I can't find a restriction on taking Aun'va or Shadowsun, like in the old codex.

Is the Burning Dawn box any good as a starting point? I was thinking that, some FWs, and maybe a Ghostkeel would make a good starting point.

 Lunar Centurion wrote:
Is the Burning Dawn box any good as a starting point? I was thinking that, some FWs, and maybe a Ghostkeel would make a good starting point.

Good starting models in general would be
1 commander
2 boxes of Fire Warriors (20 Firewarriors)
1 Crisis Squad box (3 crisis suits)

as that will be in "most" armies.

some of the "best" units in the codex are Ghostkeel, Riptides, and Stormsurge

Okay... how many points does that get me to? Iirc, it's 500-ish, I don't have the codex on me. To make it 750, is a Ghostkeel+Pathfinders any good?

 Lunar Centurion wrote:
Okay... how many points does that get me to? Iirc, it's 500-ish, I don't have the codex on me. To make it 750, is a Ghostkeel+Pathfinders any good?

Are you trying to just make a traditional Combined arms detachment (1 HQ and 2 troop minimum)? Or are you planning on doing one of the specific formations/detachments in the codex?

I was planning on be able to run either. In smaller games I'd probably run a CAD, in larger games or more competitive ones, I'd use either the Mont'ka or Kauyon decurions.

 Lunar Centurion wrote:
I was planning on be able to run either. In smaller games I'd probably run a CAD, in larger games or more competitive ones, I'd use either the Mont'ka or Kauyon decurions.

Commander is required for Hunter Contingent/Dawn blade contingent so Id say go with him for HQ
20 Firewarriors will be enough for either a CAD (2x10) or hunter contingent (3x5).

That fulfills the CAD requirements but not hunter contingent yet

You still need a Elite, FA, HS, and 1 Axillary formation for a hunter contingent.

Best options for each category:
Elite: 1-3 Crisis suits, Riptide, or Ghostkeel
FA: Marker Drones or pathfinders
HS: Stormsurge (Big and expensive though), 1-3 Broadsides

And then you need 1 Axilliary formation of which there are quite a few

I think I'll actually stick with the CAD. I prefer flexibility. What's the best list you can run at 750?

Maybe this:

Commander
Crisis Team
2x 10-man Fire Warriors w/ SMS turret
Ghostkeel
Pathfinders

Iirc that's 750pts, depending on upgrades. Is it any good?

 Lunar Centurion wrote:
I think I'll actually stick with the CAD. I prefer flexibility. What's the best list you can run at 750?

Maybe this:

Commander
Crisis Team
2x 10-man Fire Warriors w/ SMS turret
Ghostkeel
Pathfinders

Iirc that's 750pts, depending on upgrades. Is it any good?

That probably will be about 750 points

Commander ~150 points
Crisis Team ~160 points
2x10 Strike team w/ Turret ~200 points
Ghostkeel ~140 points
2x4 Pathfinders - 88 points

Total: ~738 points

It looks pretty good. I would just be careful against any opponents who have high armor vehicles or squads of 2+ armor saves

How would I take those out? For the 2+ armor I'm guessing massed pulse rifle fire, and for the high AV... I guess the Ghostkeel?

About there yeah. Would be very light on pathfinders (6-7 models) but not like you need more than that with low points anyway.

The gear options can easily skyrocket that to closer to 1000pts, so you pretty much cant take any shield generators or more than a couple stims (i would highly recommend stims on the ghostkeel, 35pts but hes going to use it a LOT more than the 50pt 4++ shield gen due to his cover bonuses)

Your anti 2+ armor would be the crisis suits/commander toting Plasma or Melta weapons. Ghostkeels are rate of fire, not AP. They can punch things pretty well but theyre still Tau so that tactic can easily backfire. Ghostkeel's fusion collider is the dumbest weapon we got - if it was 2-3 shots instead of a small blast, we'd love it, but its a damn blast weapon. The Cyclic Ion Raker is 6 S7 AP4 shots with an Overcharge option at S8 AP4 Large Blast Gets Hot. They pump out shots, they dont pen armor typically.
For vehicles, equip one of your crisis suits with duo fusions and targetlocks. Not many things survive 2 melta shots in doublepen range. If its not a walker, the suits can charge it regardless (unless they somehow put a landraider/monolith in a 750pt game lol)

 Lunar Centurion wrote:
How would I take those out? For the 2+ armor I'm guessing massed pulse rifle fire, and for the high AV... I guess the Ghostkeel?

Putting a TL Fusion blaster on ghostkeel with cyclic ion raker could work at that point level for vehicles. Thats 1 Str8 AP1 TL shot (melta) and 6 Str 7 AP 4 shots.

Crisis squad/commander with plasma rifles would be needed for any 2+ armor save squads.

What other upgrades are good?

 Lunar Centurion wrote:
What other upgrades are good?

For ghostkeel, TL fusion blaster upgrade is very good for 10 points. Velocity Tracker is amazing on him if anyone you play has flyers for 20 points. Early Warning Override is also amazing if anyone you play does lots of deep striking or drop pods (5 points)

Iridium armor for commander is also a must (turns t4 / 3+ save into T5/2+ save)

Requizen wrote:

In a world where Wraithknights and Superfriends exists, I will vehemently state that using Allies of Convenience does not make me "that guy".

Necrons don't have much specialist or high strength shooting, our only option in that regard comes from Destroyers. Riptides are an alternative that have 2+/5++, longer range, Interceptor, and fun things like 3++ or the extra shooting attack from the Formation. I was considering bringing them so I could run out my midfield strength in Wraiths and durable Troops while still having good long range shooting from the 72" Riptides.

Plus, it allows me to make a cool conversion like this guy did

Awesome conversion! I'm sorry if I offended. It was not my intent. I know in my area if I walked in with an allied tau formation like that I would be labled lol. Didn't one of the LVO winners run flyrants and the old fire base formation?

Not surprised.

Ironically, i originally bought my tau because my orks needed a way to deal with leman russes at a distance, since the S8 AP3 pi plates would kill everything before i even got halfway across the board. This was a couple months before the 6th codex dropped, and i didnt even know they were getting updated.

Since then ive changed my tone on allies. I hate them. They either break the fluff of the game or give imperials an unfair edge. Only way im OK with it is IG allying in a couple squads of Marines since THAT is fluffy - hoards of guardsmen and a couple ace-in-the-hole marines running around.

So I guess now that we cannot use the correct CFP in tournaments, I have been trying to play around with some other army lists other than HC.

How does this sound for 1850?
Riptide Wing
1 Riptide: HBC, TL FB, EWO, ATS

1 Riptide: HBC, TL FB, EWO, ATS

3 Riptides: IA, EWO, SMS

Optimized Stealth Cadre
3 Stealthsuits: 1 FB, 1 TL

3 Stealthsuits: 1 FB, 1 TL

Ghostkeel: CIR, TL FB, TL, EWO, BKR
Ghostkeel: CIR, TL FB, TL, EWO, BKR
Ghostkeel: CIR, TL BC, VT, EWO, BKR

Drone Net
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones

Still have 17 points to play around with

That's a lot of hate...

Dont you need a proper warlord or your list is considered unbound?

Not 100% sure on that one.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dont you need a proper warlord or your list is considered unbound?

Not 100% sure on that one.

Nope, the Warlord only needs to be a character.

SJ

Razerous wrote:


Perhaps you've yet to meet a worthy opponent, using a reasonably designed army.

ugh. Just UGH.

notredameguy10 wrote:
So I guess now that we cannot use the correct CFP in tournaments, I have been trying to play around with some other army lists other than HC.

How does this sound for 1850?
Riptide Wing
1 Riptide: HBC, TL FB, EWO, ATS

1 Riptide: HBC, TL FB, EWO, ATS

3 Riptides: IA, EWO, SMS

Optimized Stealth Cadre
3 Stealthsuits: 1 FB, 1 TL

3 Stealthsuits: 1 FB, 1 TL

Ghostkeel: CIR, TL FB, TL, EWO, BKR
Ghostkeel: CIR, TL FB, TL, EWO, BKR
Ghostkeel: CIR, TL BC, VT, EWO, BKR

Drone Net
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones

Still have 17 points to play around with

Literally exactly what I came up with as what may be one of our strongest lists....I just don't want 5 riptides.

I'm probably going to do:

FSE CAD:

Farsight

2 smallish crisis suit squads

2 OSC, as above


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stibemies wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned, but I feel it's somewhat important. Just got my copy of Mont'ka today, and I can't find a restriction on taking Aun'va or Shadowsun, like in the old codex.

There is none. Farsight bomb is definitely a thing. They can't infiltrate, but you can take the formation that allows them to auto-turn 2 deep strike. You can also have a buffmander in the unit (who works just fine with one giant deathstar unit) AND with some careful shenanigans I believe can also make the suit unit to be from a FSE CAD so that the whole blob is obsec. If you care.

The only thing I'm still working on is getting all of that to work without any fat in a single army list (it's a little more complicated than I thought)

So now that we technically cannot share rules via CFP, I was wondering what people opinions were of the different options for Tau.

Hunter Contingent - CFP, Run and shoot, troop tax,
Dawn Blade Contingent - Army wide Doom, troop tax
Just formations - no taxes, less special bonuses
CAD

I can see the benefits of each but I am struggling to decide which one would be the most competitive.