Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am planning to run a CAD with an attached OSC. I could probably run it as a Hunter Contingent, but then I'd have to leave the Skyray at home and take that hull as a Hammerhead instead (since I don't have enough Hammerheads to run the Armored cadre).

The Hunter Contingent is still incredibly powerful, and I can easily see taking it.

However, I'll probably be running an FSE with a Retaliation Cad as it's core, and if you honestly wanted the super powerful version of CFP to kill deathstars, the Mont'ka re-roll to wound should be plenty when focus firing the deathstar as you can alter most other stats already.

Additionally, I'll be running a Piranha Wing, a drone network, and if I can find the points (which is likely) I'll have a OSC too. That's a lot of very powerful fire power and super buffed units that were already very efficient.

notredameguy10 wrote:
So now that we technically cannot share rules via CFP, I was wondering what people opinions were of the different options for Tau.

Hunter Contingent - CFP, Run and shoot, troop tax,
Dawn Blade Contingent - Army wide Doom, troop tax
Just formations - no taxes, less special bonuses
CAD

I can see the benefits of each but I am struggling to decide which one would be the most competitive.

To be fair to the DBC, it doesn't really have a troop tax. If you run Retaliation core, you're getting Crisis, Broadsides, and Riptides, all of which you're gonna take regardless. All you need is auxiliaries that can survive to turn 2. Personally I'm looking at DBC with Retaliation, Drone Net, and Skysweep (4 units of BS3 marker drones, plus a D-fish and 3 units of Sky Rays can easily hold out to turn 2 and will add great support to the battlesuits DSing in). Of course, the HC also doesn't really have a tax per say, as 3 5man striker teams is not expensive and can hold objectives, while the rest of it is all stuff you would take anyway.

I'll be using a CAD with formation support. I just can't leave my Stormsurges at home.

And that Riptide Wing is so sexy...

So how would I go about converting Cyclic Ion Blasters, now that they aren't unique? Or Frag projectors, I guess.

Seems they would both be pretty good in small points Farsight lists. A way to have the crisis troops do all rounder damage.

Crisis suits with dual frag projectors is just sickeningly strong. Ive ran it against marines a few times - it was hilarious the amount of wounds i caused.

Not sure how i would kitbash them yet. Theyre basically just a tube with a canister at one end, but its all the little details im not sure how i'd do without just Greenstuffing everything (ughh....the thought of that sounds terrible)

Use insta mold. Walk through 's on YouTube. Works for me.

I played the Optimized Stealth Cadre tonight. Color me impressed.

A few things:
1. I went with the Dual Fusion threat versions and they cleaned house against enemy armor. No one was lining up to enjoy that melta blast either. And some Markerlights go a long way in making that unit nasty.
2. the Wall of Mirrors ability? GOLD. Against a Vendetta with some Markerlight help and a TL Fusion Blaster? Ho yeah.


Some not so positives:
1. It wont stand up to a dedicated melee unit.
2. The Drones caused me ot make a morale check. I had TWO of the three Ghostkeels left. I failed morale and because of the Drones I couldn't regroup! That sucked. I still did damage as I retreated thanks to Markerlights but damn. that was a bummer. The Drones are a major downside for the unit and unlike Riptides you cant choose not to take all of them.

Overall extremely pleased with the damage I did.

notredameguy10 wrote:
So I guess now that we cannot use the correct CFP in tournaments, I have been trying to play around with some other army lists other than HC.
How does this sound for 1850?
Riptide Wing
1 Riptide: HBC, TL FB, EWO, ATS

1 Riptide: HBC, TL FB, EWO, ATS

3 Riptides: IA, EWO, SMS

Optimized Stealth Cadre
3 Stealthsuits: 1 FB, 1 TL

3 Stealthsuits: 1 FB, 1 TL

Ghostkeel: CIR, TL FB, TL, EWO, BKR
Ghostkeel: CIR, TL FB, TL, EWO, BKR
Ghostkeel: CIR, TL BC, VT, EWO, BKR

Drone Net
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones

Still have 17 points to play around with

This is exactly what I am planning on doing as well, granted I only had x3 Riptides and some Crisis Suit teams in there and a Commander Suits. However I am planning eventually on getting x5 Riptides total so this idea does interest me. I am a little confused why the HBC? Honestly in every situation I have come across the IA is always better, even against enemy Flyers and FMC I have encounterd.

 Jancoran wrote:
I played the Optimized Stealth Cadre tonight. Color me impressed.

A few things:
1. I went with the Dual Fusin threat versions and they cleaned house against enemy armor. No one was lining up to enjoy that melta blast either. And some Markerlights go a long way in making that unit nasty.
2. the Wall of Mirrors ability? GOLD. Against a Vendetta with some Markerlight help and a TL Fusion Blaster? Ho yeah.


Some not so positives:
1. It wont stand up to a dedicated melee unit.
2. The Drones caused me ot make a morale check. I had TWO of the three left. I failed morale and because of the Drones I couldn't regroup! That sucked. I still did damage as I retreated thanks to Markerlights but damn. that was a bummer. The Drones are a major downside for the unit and unlike Riptides you cant choose not to take all of them.

Overall extremely pleased with the damage I did.

Ghsotkeel units with more than 1 Ghostkeel need BKR. It's pretty cheap on them anyway

 Jancoran wrote:
I played the Optimized Stealth Cadre tonight. Color me impressed.

A few things:
1. I went with the Dual Fusin threat versions and they cleaned house against enemy armor. No one was lining up to enjoy that melta blast either. And some Markerlights go a long way in making that unit nasty.
2. the Wall of Mirrors ability? GOLD. Against a Vendetta with some Markerlight help and a TL Fusion Blaster? Ho yeah.


Some not so positives:
1. It wont stand up to a dedicated melee unit.
2. The Drones caused me ot make a morale check. I had TWO of the three left. I failed morale and because of the Drones I couldn't regroup! That sucked. I still did damage as I retreated thanks to Markerlights but damn. that was a bummer. The Drones are a major downside for the unit and unlike Riptides you cant choose not to take all of them.

Overall extremely pleased with the damage I did.

Try leaving one drone out in front at a time. You only need one to benefit from the Stealth and Shrouded bonus, and one dead drone at a time won't cause a failed leadership.

Also, nothing in the Tau codex holds up against a dedicated melee unit.... It's like comparing Star Wars to Lord of the Rings and one of the reasons you didn't like LoTR was because they weren't in space...

And I'm confused by the leadership failure, fid you lose a Drone and consistently fail the Leadership 9 roll? Or were you trying for Insane Heroism?

 Jancoran wrote:
I played the Optimized Stealth Cadre tonight. Color me impressed.

A few things:
1. I went with the Dual Fusin threat versions and they cleaned house against enemy armor. No one was lining up to enjoy that melta blast either. And some Markerlights go a long way in making that unit nasty.
2. the Wall of Mirrors ability? GOLD. Against a Vendetta with some Markerlight help and a TL Fusion Blaster? Ho yeah.


Some not so positives:
1. It wont stand up to a dedicated melee unit.
2. The Drones caused me ot make a morale check. I had TWO of the three left. I failed morale and because of the Drones I couldn't regroup! That sucked. I still did damage as I retreated thanks to Markerlights but damn. that was a bummer. The Drones are a major downside for the unit and unlike Riptides you cant choose not to take all of them.

Overall extremely pleased with the damage I did.

How do you go about positioning your stealth drones? I tend to play them opposite everything else and place them safely behind the ghostkeel. And BKR would work wonders



Also, has anyone ran any lists with the new somewhat niche melee units we can run now? I tried a FSE Commander with fusion blades, threw in farsight, gave them a 3 man bodyguard team with a puretide chip against necrons,. They ate everything except Wraiths (there weren't any at the time) for breakfast.

notredameguy10 wrote:
So now that we technically cannot share rules via CFP, I was wondering what people opinions were of the different options for Tau.

Hunter Contingent - CFP, Run and shoot, troop tax,
Dawn Blade Contingent - Army wide Doom, troop tax
Just formations - no taxes, less special bonuses
CAD

I can see the benefits of each but I am struggling to decide which one would be the most competitive.

Here is my issue with the DBC.

I really want to take the retaliation core because of relentless broadsides.. that's probably the best perk. However, i'm "taxed" to take a riptide in this formation. *please be patient about the riptide* Now onto the auxiliaries.. This is unfortunate.. they are all huge.. and if I want more suits.. again i am "taxed" with a riptide. If I want pathfinders.. i'm "taxed" with 3 units of broadsides. Which basically leaves me always paying 220 points for the drone net (marker lights).

Now... The reason I called those riptides a tax.. well simply is. What if i want a riptide wing? It is not an auxiliary but is still amazing. I can't bring myself to field 4-5 riptides (nor do i have that many). After that, there really is nothing else that is phenomenal in the auxiliaries.

I wish they simplified it.. gave tau all the auxiliaries available to both contingents and changed the core and special rules.. there are some really good auxiliaries i think that would pair well with retaliation.. such as the infiltration cadre.

I have played around with lists using a DBC with hunter cadre core (the only way to bring ghost keel / stormsurge IN the contingent), and using the quick response crisis aux. Again tho, that riptide is always there making things complicated for combining other formations..

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Here is my issue with the DBC.

I really want to take the retaliation core because of relentless broadsides.. that's probably the best perk. However, i'm "taxed" to take a riptide in this formation. *please be patient about the riptide* Now onto the auxiliaries.. This is unfortunate.. they are all huge.. and if I want more suits.. again i am "taxed" with a riptide. If I want pathfinders.. i'm "taxed" with 3 units of broadsides. Which basically leaves me always paying 220 points for the drone net (marker lights).

Now... The reason I called those riptides a tax.. well simply is. What if i want a riptide wing? It is not an auxiliary but is still amazing. I can't bring myself to field 4-5 riptides (nor do i have that many). After that, there really is nothing else that is phenomenal in the auxiliaries.

I wish they simplified it.. gave tau all the auxiliaries available to both contingents and changed the core and special rules.. there are some really good auxiliaries i think that would pair well with retaliation.. such as the infiltration cadre.

I have played around with lists using a DBC with hunter cadre core (the only way to bring ghost keel / stormsurge IN the contingent), and using the quick response crisis aux. Again tho, that riptide is always there making things complicated for combining other formations..

I feel the same way with the DBC. The Riptide Wing is so powerful but you can't fit that in a standard 2k or lower list due to the massive point requirements for the auxilaries. And 4 Riptides?! Holy gak batman...

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I feel the same way with the DBC. The Riptide Wing is so powerful but you can't fit that in a standard 2k or lower list due to the massive point requirements for the auxiliaries. And 4 Riptides?! Holy gak batman...

Exactly.. One reason Eldar is good (aside from the "D" weapons) is their contingent is very flexible... they have many small auxiliaries that you can piece together to form essentially one of our normal ones..

Honestly I think the retaliation Cadre was overthought.. I think it doesn't need the riptide.. or doesn't need the broadsides. I think the crisis auxiliary, would be fine as 3 units of crisis suits. ANDDD I think similar to a wraithknight/lord/etc a riptide should be a standalone auxiliary..

/endrant




Automatically Appended Next Post:
A list I want to try..

@2000 DBC - Retaliation:
fusionblade commander
ion riptide
plasma crisis team
2x burst crisis teams (i realize CIBs are better maybe.. i like wysiwyg)
Misslesides w/ plasma

Aux:
Razershark aux: 3x fighters

Formations:
OSC - 2 IR/FB ghostkeel, homing beacon stealth teams

 Grizzyzz wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I feel the same way with the DBC. The Riptide Wing is so powerful but you can't fit that in a standard 2k or lower list due to the massive point requirements for the auxiliaries. And 4 Riptides?! Holy gak batman...

Exactly.. One reason Eldar is good (aside from the "D" weapons) is their contingent is very flexible... they have many small auxiliaries that you can piece together to form essentially one of our normal ones..

Honestly I think the retaliation Cadre was overthought.. I think it doesn't need the riptide.. or doesn't need the broadsides. I think the crisis auxiliary, would be fine as 3 units of crisis suits. ANDDD I think similar to a wraithknight/lord/etc a riptide should be a standalone auxiliary..

/endrant

I'd also do dirty, dirty things for some form of Aux that has just a unit of Skyrays.

 Jancoran wrote:
I played the Optimized Stealth Cadre tonight. Color me impressed.

A few things:
1. I went with the Dual Fusin threat versions and they cleaned house against enemy armor. No one was lining up to enjoy that melta blast either. And some Markerlights go a long way in making that unit nasty.
2. the Wall of Mirrors ability? GOLD. Against a Vendetta with some Markerlight help and a TL Fusion Blaster? Ho yeah.


Some not so positives:
1. It wont stand up to a dedicated melee unit.
2. The Drones caused me ot make a morale check. I had TWO of the three left. I failed morale and because of the Drones I couldn't regroup! That sucked. I still did damage as I retreated thanks to Markerlights but damn. that was a bummer. The Drones are a major downside for the unit and unlike Riptides you cant choose not to take all of them.

Overall extremely pleased with the damage I did.

ALWAYS take bonding knife ritual on a squad of ghost keels. ALWAYS


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gmaleron wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
So I guess now that we cannot use the correct CFP in tournaments, I have been trying to play around with some other army lists other than HC.
How does this sound for 1850?
Riptide Wing
1 Riptide: HBC, TL FB, EWO, ATS

1 Riptide: HBC, TL FB, EWO, ATS

3 Riptides: IA, EWO, SMS

Optimized Stealth Cadre
3 Stealthsuits: 1 FB, 1 TL

3 Stealthsuits: 1 FB, 1 TL

Ghostkeel: CIR, TL FB, TL, EWO, BKR
Ghostkeel: CIR, TL FB, TL, EWO, BKR
Ghostkeel: CIR, TL BC, VT, EWO, BKR

Drone Net
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones

Still have 17 points to play around with

This is exactly what I am planning on doing as well, granted I only had x3 Riptides and some Crisis Suit teams in there and a Commander Suits. However I am planning eventually on getting x5 Riptides total so this idea does interest me. I am a little confused why the HBC? Honestly in every situation I have come across the IA is always better, even against enemy Flyers and FMC I have encounterd.

Overcharged HBC is better in a lot of situations.Flyers? Which sounds better: 12 Str 6 AP 4 shots with rending or 3 Str 7 AP 2 shots?
anything not in a large group HBC is better.
Any high AV vehicles HBC is better

My 1500 list is a retaliation cadre + an optimised stealth cadre. No "tax units", and it even sort of synergizes, as the stealth suits can take homing beacons to bring the other suits down more safely. On the other hand, no command benefits of any kind and a pretty low model count. Just finished building and priming the models, first game maybe next week.

HBC riptides when they pass their novas almost always do more damage than IA riptides, except against maybe a blob of 2+ save units.
Problem is the nova test. IA's can basically ignore the nova test, they dont need it at all. This is what i feel needs to be nerfed if riptides ever get nerfed, not points, not the strength, but the AP without nova charge.

If the HBC doesnt get its nova, its a pretty bad gun for the cost you paid. Not to mention you just got hurt by the test.

IA = 2+/3+ armor blobs, light armor, and hordes.
HBC w/o Nova = hordes, light armor, 4+ saves
HBC w/ Nova = Everything. Literally, everything. May not WANT to fire at 2+ blobs but it still can and still do heavy damage.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
HBC riptides when they pass their novas almost always do more damage than IA riptides, except against maybe a blob of 2+ save units.
Problem is the nova test. IA's can basically ignore the nova test, they dont need it at all. This is what i feel needs to be nerfed if riptides ever get nerfed, not points, not the strength, but the AP without nova charge.

If the HBC doesnt get its nova, its a pretty bad gun for the cost you paid. Not to mention you just got hurt by the test.

IA = 2+/3+ armor blobs, light armor, and hordes.
HBC w/o Nova = hordes, light armor, 4+ saves
HBC w/ Nova = Everything. Literally, everything. May not WANT to fire at 2+ blobs but it still can and still do heavy damage.

I have yet to have a game where an IA riptide didnt roll gets hot when i needed that ap2 pie plate the most. Or completely wiff if not gets hot.

I think because of the way scatter works, and the gets hot roll.. the ion fair as is. If anything.. maybe its ap3.. and the ap2 you get when you nova charge.. but thats the only change i would think could happen without a riot XD

Need some help on Frontline Gaming here. Now they are trying to say a squad of 3 Ghostkeel can only activate its ability once per game and not 3 times (once per unit). We have already had discussions here on this topic and just about everyone agrees. 1 model activates the ability and the rest of the unit uses the ability.
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/12/04/puretides-balance-tfo-takes-montka-to-road-to-lvo/#comment-455637

Thats basically my idea. It makes no sense without Nova charge to be infinitely stronger than the hammerhead's ion cannon. You cant say its powered differently without the nova charge because its still an ION weapon. That and the range is just ridiculous.

And yeah ive had several times where Gets Hot screwed me over. My last 2k game against my BA/IG friend i had 1 riptide with IA. It did nothing other than S10 Smash his jumppack guy that was pissing off my crisis suits (he had an AP4 weapon so i kept saving them, but he had a 3+ as well with a 4++). I literally Gets Hot 3 of 5 attacks, and completely scattered to nomansland with the other 2 lol.
Never had bad luck THAT bad with a riptide. Landing 1 attack the entire game, a melee one at that, is just sad.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats basically my idea. It makes no sense without Nova charge to be infinitely stronger than the hammerhead's ion cannon. You cant say its powered differently without the nova charge because its still an ION weapon. That and the range is just ridiculous.

And yeah ive had several times where Gets Hot screwed me over. My last 2k game against my BA/IG friend i had 1 riptide with IA. It did nothing other than S10 Smash his jumppack guy that was pissing off my crisis suits (he had an AP4 weapon so i kept saving them, but he had a 3+ as well with a 4++). I literally Gets Hot 3 of 5 attacks, and completely scattered to nomansland with the other 2 lol.
Never had bad luck THAT bad with a riptide. Landing 1 attack the entire game, a melee one at that, is just sad.

That's why I tend to not use the blast unless I have enough marker support to make him BS 6, or its a unit of T4 models with more than one wound.

But NEVER underestimate the power of a Nova Charged Heavy Burst Cannon.

As Vineheart01 said, it hurts EVERYTHING.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats basically my idea. It makes no sense without Nova charge to be infinitely stronger than the hammerhead's ion cannon. You cant say its powered differently without the nova charge because its still an ION weapon. That and the range is just ridiculous.

And yeah ive had several times where Gets Hot screwed me over. My last 2k game against my BA/IG friend i had 1 riptide with IA. It did nothing other than S10 Smash his jumppack guy that was pissing off my crisis suits (he had an AP4 weapon so i kept saving them, but he had a 3+ as well with a 4++). I literally Gets Hot 3 of 5 attacks, and completely scattered to nomansland with the other 2 lol.
Never had bad luck THAT bad with a riptide. Landing 1 attack the entire game, a melee one at that, is just sad.

Once GW fixes the ECPA/Riptide mistake, make a Riptide Wing Farsight Enclaves with ECPA and HBC. The ECPA was basically made for the HBC.

 Nilok wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats basically my idea. It makes no sense without Nova charge to be infinitely stronger than the hammerhead's ion cannon. You cant say its powered differently without the nova charge because its still an ION weapon. That and the range is just ridiculous.

And yeah ive had several times where Gets Hot screwed me over. My last 2k game against my BA/IG friend i had 1 riptide with IA. It did nothing other than S10 Smash his jumppack guy that was pissing off my crisis suits (he had an AP4 weapon so i kept saving them, but he had a 3+ as well with a 4++). I literally Gets Hot 3 of 5 attacks, and completely scattered to nomansland with the other 2 lol.
Never had bad luck THAT bad with a riptide. Landing 1 attack the entire game, a melee one at that, is just sad.

Once GW fixes the ECPA/Riptide mistake, make a Riptide Wing Farsight Enclaves with ECPA and HBC. The ECPA was basically made for the HBC.

What keep two Riptides together and the other with the ECPA can go golo?

 Nilok wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats basically my idea. It makes no sense without Nova charge to be infinitely stronger than the hammerhead's ion cannon. You cant say its powered differently without the nova charge because its still an ION weapon. That and the range is just ridiculous.

And yeah ive had several times where Gets Hot screwed me over. My last 2k game against my BA/IG friend i had 1 riptide with IA. It did nothing other than S10 Smash his jumppack guy that was pissing off my crisis suits (he had an AP4 weapon so i kept saving them, but he had a 3+ as well with a 4++). I literally Gets Hot 3 of 5 attacks, and completely scattered to nomansland with the other 2 lol.
Never had bad luck THAT bad with a riptide. Landing 1 attack the entire game, a melee one at that, is just sad.

Once GW fixes the ECPA/Riptide mistake, make a Riptide Wing Farsight Enclaves with ECPA and HBC. The ECPA was basically made for the HBC.

I highly doubt anyone would give you gak for running a Riptide with it even without an FAQ. It was available to the unit before and it VLEARLY only works for Riptides. Anyone who would say otherwise is an asshat and you shouldn't play against them.

notredameguy10 wrote:
Need some help on Frontline Gaming here. Now they are trying to say a squad of 3 Ghostkeel can only activate its ability once per game and not 3 times (once per unit). We have already had discussions here on this topic and just about everyone agrees. 1 model activates the ability and the rest of the unit uses the ability.
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/12/04/puretides-balance-tfo-takes-montka-to-road-to-lvo/#comment-455637

I'd personally prefer it if you get one use per Keel, but the wording on it is really wonky so I can see it going either way. In the first sentence it says that a model with it can do that, but then in the second sentence it says the unit activates the ability as a whole. The issue is that the unit consists of a unit with it and two units without it at base, so they have to state the model(s) with it use it, as opposed to the unit, so it's weird they say the unit uses it later.

Oh well, the OSC and others are strong enough either way, but I don't think it would make them over the top if they could use it three time instead of once.

Holos on the ghostkeels are one per suit. I dont care if the rules are fuzzy, you are paying for a once per game use ability whether you want to or not and it does not have a stacking effect. There is NO WAY its suppose to still be once per game for the entire unit.

Now if it changed depending on the number of ghostkeels, then i'd say its once per game anyway. Such as with 3 ghostkeels it becomes straight up a free Invisibility for a turn. But it doesnt, so it makes no sense to force you to use all 3 at once.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I played the Optimized Stealth Cadre tonight. Color me impressed.

A few things:
1. I went with the Dual Fusin threat versions and they cleaned house against enemy armor. No one was lining up to enjoy that melta blast either. And some Markerlights go a long way in making that unit nasty.
2. the Wall of Mirrors ability? GOLD. Against a Vendetta with some Markerlight help and a TL Fusion Blaster? Ho yeah.


Some not so positives:
1. It wont stand up to a dedicated melee unit.
2. The Drones caused me ot make a morale check. I had TWO of the three left. I failed morale and because of the Drones I couldn't regroup! That sucked. I still did damage as I retreated thanks to Markerlights but damn. that was a bummer. The Drones are a major downside for the unit and unlike Riptides you cant choose not to take all of them.

Overall extremely pleased with the damage I did.

Try leaving one drone out in front at a time. You only need one to benefit from the Stealth and Shrouded bonus, and one dead drone at a time won't cause a failed leadership.

Also, nothing in the Tau codex holds up against a dedicated melee unit.... It's like comparing Star Wars to Lord of the Rings and one of the reasons you didn't like LoTR was because they weren't in space...

And I'm confused by the leadership failure, fid you lose a Drone and consistently fail the Leadership 9 roll? Or were you trying for Insane Heroism?

Oops. So what happened is i lost two drones deep striking (it happens) and EVENTUALLY lost one Ghostkeel and the other 4 drones. So i had only 2 Ghostkeels left out of 9 total members of the unit, failed morale, and then couldn't regroup because I needed yes, insane heroism.

I will definitely "tier" the drones in the future but wanted to mention it here for the benefit of people who haven't yet found this little problem out. I learned the hard way. Still won but that on its own let him back into a game he had hopelessly lost by the end of round 2. It was a mistake on my part to even get them near the enemy once i jhad them on the ropes so that was on me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notredameguy10 wrote:

ALWAYS take bonding knife ritual on a squad of ghost keels. ALWAYS

Thank you, sir. And now i know. You definitely need it. It's the first time I have considered taking them in like... six years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notredameguy10 wrote:
Need some help on Frontline Gaming here. Now they are trying to say a squad of 3 Ghostkeel can only activate its ability once per game and not 3 times (once per unit). We have already had discussions here on this topic and just about everyone agrees. 1 model activates the ability and the rest of the unit uses the ability.
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/12/04/puretides-balance-tfo-takes-montka-to-road-to-lvo/#comment-455637

Uh... What? You mean Holophoton Countermeasures? They are saying all the models use theirs up simultaneously? WHY? It even mentions a model ("not a unit that contains at least one...")

Damn it. More reason to dislike the ITC. It's getting as bad as the INAT.

Well hold on guys, before we get carried away, let's look at what the Holophoton does. In theory it gives your one Ghostkeel and its two drones a shield against shooting from one unit for one turn. That's pretty solid by itself, but when you include more Ghostkeels in that unit it doesn't grow linearly, it grows exponentially. I get it makes sense that each one should be able to use, but it does mean that each Ghostkeel basically gets three Holophotons, instead of one in that situation., which means it's either immune for three turns from one squad, or can mitigate multiple squads for one turn or more, which is a massive power increase per Ghostkeel taken.

Now consider the other aspect of this, a Holophoton field that functions once per squad, means there's a trade off for taking a unit of Ghostkeels versus individual Ghostkeels, which isn't bad because it encourages stronger list building consideration since there are so many trade offs with choosing either route.

Like I said, I can see it going either way, and even if you can't, I urge you to consider the power balance of how the ability scales with different squad compositions.