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Nah they arent. IG/AM are just one of those armies that they either own you or you own them because you just happened to have the right list.
Not many IG players around here but the few games i get with one its extremely one-sided, as orks or tau. There is no average game against high AV tanks, its either you cant touch'm or you obliterate them lol.

Still not a bad codex, just nothing overly amazing either.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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Martel732 wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
They don't have to be plus you don't have to run all pods.


Pods crumble in general against null deployment/ delayed deployment or anything that can survive the alpha strike really.


I said you dont have to run all pods.

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 BoomWolf wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
They don't have to be plus you don't have to run all pods.


Pods crumble in general against null deployment/ delayed deployment or anything that can survive the alpha strike really.

Pods are great - they just suck when you put space marines in them. My friends ruin me with IG command squads in pods and vets too...uncounterable ignore cover metlas and plasmas able to get a point swing with relative easy vs any space marine unit. Can't put stuff in reserve to avoid them because hell run a a 20 point command unit that lets him get +1 to reserves and -1 to me. guess only solute against that crap is to run gladius and give him no target worth destroying.



That unit is rather easy to take off the board.

Honestly, saying anything IG (or is it AM these days?) is uncounterable is rather...sad. its not a strong codex at all.

It's a suicide unit - in a drop pod. It can be dropped in such a way that it can't mishap and is automatically in range to kill it's target. The ignore cover order is a leadership test that I can't deny (very high success rate) and they get more cheap special weapons on target than anything else can for less points. If they destroy something that costs more than they do it's an automatic advantage. That's kinda the way it goes. What exactly can I do to counter such cheese?

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 Dozer Blades wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
They don't have to be plus you don't have to run all pods.


Pods crumble in general against null deployment/ delayed deployment or anything that can survive the alpha strike really.


I said you dont have to run all pods.


Okay, fair enough.
   
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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Nah they arent. IG/AM are just one of those armies that they either own you or you own them because you just happened to have the right list.
Not many IG players around here but the few games i get with one its extremely one-sided, as orks or tau. There is no average game against high AV tanks, its either you cant touch'm or you obliterate them lol.

Still not a bad codex, just nothing overly amazing either.

If you only run their cheap specials with high BS and easy access to ignore cover in pods...they are extremely deadly.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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Riptide wing has many counters, needs marker light support, and is not dominating the tournament scene. Obviously, it should be banned. Both Ravenguard and Skyhammer can assault out of deepstrike. Enough guys will get through to prevent the tides from shooting for most of the game.
   
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 Jancoran wrote:
Plus is there a downside to being a LITTLE patient and firing your missiles into the Riptides for a round before getting down and dirty? 12 STR 8 AP 1 missiles? That will definitely leave a dent and SUBSTANTIALY reduce any remaining Riptides from wanting to change the Nova Reactor or Gets hot.

Well, I can hold reserves pretty well with -1 modifier and a reroll.

If I deploy so close to his units that he can't target my DS elements without hitting his own units -- that would be effective protection too, right?
   
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Yoyoyo wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Plus is there a downside to being a LITTLE patient and firing your missiles into the Riptides for a round before getting down and dirty? 12 STR 8 AP 1 missiles? That will definitely leave a dent and SUBSTANTIALY reduce any remaining Riptides from wanting to change the Nova Reactor or Gets hot.

Well, I can hold reserves pretty well with -1 modifier and a reroll.

If I deploy so close to his units that he can't target my DS elements without hitting his own units -- that would be effective protection too, right?


Maybe. I mean we hope it would be. But remember the Deployment zone types aren't all Dawn of War so the geometry of that could be a problem. As a STRATEGY, I think patience would be the better underlying assumption to make and then on the occasions you are able top execute it othe other way, great. Or as I speask about on my blog from time to time, you want to strengthen your plan B even at the expense of plan A. Why? Because it is astrategically sounder to have a strong B than a weaker B. And a strong A may make not enough difference to matter.

So I think it's valid thinking but any movement at all away from you (assuming they go first which they do 50% of the time) compromises the underlying strategy. Just keep it in mind. I always think strategy first list second and that's my thinking on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:


How many people running gladius at the event with 480 free points and only 1 makes the top 8? The guy got lucky - plain and simple. .


No one gets "lucky" to be in the top 8. Luck isn't what happened. Not germaine to the discussion but I thought I'd reply to this particular snippet just because i cannot fathom anyone thinking that with 250 players involved, luck is going to get it done.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/11 21:09:02


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As a Tau player, kill the marker lights then kill riptide at your leisure

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 Zeuriel wrote:
As a Tau player, kill the marker lights then kill riptide at your leisure


Marker Lights are key.

Though here's an observation i have made: players are using less Markerlights and relying more on Formation bonus's.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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 Jancoran wrote:
Yoyoyo wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Plus is there a downside to being a LITTLE patient and firing your missiles into the Riptides for a round before getting down and dirty? 12 STR 8 AP 1 missiles? That will definitely leave a dent and SUBSTANTIALY reduce any remaining Riptides from wanting to change the Nova Reactor or Gets hot.

Well, I can hold reserves pretty well with -1 modifier and a reroll.

If I deploy so close to his units that he can't target my DS elements without hitting his own units -- that would be effective protection too, right?


Maybe. I mean we hope it would be. But remember the Deployment zone types aren't all Dawn of War so the geometry of that could be a problem. As a STRATEGY, I think patience would be the better underlying assumption to make and then on the occasions you are able top execute it othe other way, great. Or as I speask about on my blog from time to time, you want to strengthen your plan B even at the expense of plan A. Why? Because it is astrategically sounder to have a strong B than a weaker B. And a strong A may make not enough difference to matter.

So I think it's valid thinking but any movement at all away from you (assuming they go first which they do 50% of the time) compromises the underlying strategy. Just keep it in mind. I always think strategy first list second and that's my thinking on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:


How many people running gladius at the event with 480 free points and only 1 makes the top 8? The guy got lucky - plain and simple. .


No one gets "lucky" to be in the top 8. Luck isn't what happened. Not germaine to the discussion but I thought I'd reply to this particular snippet just because i cannot fathom anyone thinking that with 250 players involved, luck is going to get it done.

I think you are misunderstand me. I mentioned the dude is obvious very skilled but gladius is a popular list - it probably showed up more than any other list. Only 1 of them made it to the final 8 and only 1 the final 16 as far as I've seen. It's the player and not the list in this case. When I'm saying luck I am speaking mostly of matchups - objectives - and dice rolls all combined into one. If gladius is OP and that many people are running it - it would be more prevalent in the top placements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
DooDoo wrote:
Riptide wing has many counters, needs marker light support, and is not dominating the tournament scene. Obviously, it should be banned. Both Ravenguard and Skyhammer can assault out of deepstrike. Enough guys will get through to prevent the tides from shooting for most of the game.

Ripetide wing is like a direct counter to skyhammer...nice try though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/12 17:08:56


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Is there some discussion needed of the triptide as part of a larger formation? Does it get the benefits of buffmanders and the various cadres?

The debate of OP/not is irrelevant. The formation is in the books and not all events are going to ban it. For those of you who think it's not over the top, what's been done to you/your army to mitigate the strengths of the formation?

Is there an approach that works best when trying to overcome Tau? Mech-SU? Deathstar? Psychic shenanigans? Superfriends? Artillery sniping? Aircav?

I play guard, so I have to spend lots of time thinking about how to deal with MCs. The riptides are up there, let me assure you! Podvets are awesome and can do work, but the invuln + FNP can be hard to get past, never mind the shots to the face I take when disembarking. The thing that keeps working well consistently is beast-hunter vanquisher cannons out of IA:1. ID TL blast 72" re-roll your cover save cannons are the sauce.

I took a mech vet list where I shot 6 ignore cover las cannons and 6 AC/HB chimeras into a riptide and did 2 wounds. Not. Good. What guns scare you? Is it just grav?
   
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Ether wrote:
I play guard, so I have to spend lots of time thinking about how to deal with MCs. The riptides are up there, let me assure you! Podvets are awesome and can do work, but the invuln + FNP can be hard to get past, never mind the shots to the face I take when disembarking. The thing that keeps working well consistently is beast-hunter vanquisher cannons out of IA:1. ID TL blast 72" re-roll your cover save cannons are the sauce.

I took a mech vet list where I shot 6 ignore cover las cannons and 6 AC/HB chimeras into a riptide and did 2 wounds. Not. Good. What guns scare you? Is it just grav?

IG have a few options.

- Instant Death Vanquishers from ABG
- Rending from Pask
- Monster Hunter + Misfortune (50 Lasguns = Dead Riptide)
- Shadowsword (D-blast)
- Enfeeble (Biomancy) and S10 attack
- LD attacks (Astropath Psyker)
- Force Axes (Primaris Psyker), Power Axes
- Vets with Meltabombs in CC
- Sentinels, Bullgryns (more resilient, can tarpit)

Riptides are a bit like Wraiths, Knights, and WKs, they are a lot more expensive to kill than make irrelevant. They also tend to absorb a lot of shooting which could be put to better use elsewhere.
   
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I have played 4 games vs the rip tide wing and to be honest it's hard to formulate a specific strategy. Alot of deepstrike stuff will kill tau (people worry about interceptor to much), i have not tested with pod vets, but if the Tau player decides to use interceptor on riptides, he will not be able to doubletap everything his next shooting phase(the formation bonus, not nova charge), so you can actually lessen their efficiency quite a bit. I'm not to worried podding marines vs riptides, but podvets are very squishy, that might backfire.

It really depends on what the other stuff in the tau list is, intercepting markerlights really changes the list. Without them, Tau really don't want to interceptor so they can maximise synergies in their own turn. (That's what i think atleast i'm not a Tau player)

The riptides while being good can still be ignored, they have good dmg, but it's not amazing. So in a nutshell kill the squishy stuff and if they are out of position or get some unlucky nova charges you can punish them. But deciding 'i'm gonna kill that riptide' first turn does not really work, unless you have a specific counter, like grav cents with gate or in a bunker. IG's mvp units are wyverns\artillery, pask and blobs, stuff that really shines at taking out other units.


   
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Ether wrote:
Is there some discussion needed of the triptide as part of a larger formation? Does it get the benefits of buffmanders and the various cadres?

The debate of OP/not is irrelevant. The formation is in the books and not all events are going to ban it. For those of you who think it's not over the top, what's been done to you/your army to mitigate the strengths of the formation?

Is there an approach that works best when trying to overcome Tau? Mech-SU? Deathstar? Psychic shenanigans? Superfriends? Artillery sniping? Aircav?

I play guard, so I have to spend lots of time thinking about how to deal with MCs. The riptides are up there, let me assure you! Podvets are awesome and can do work, but the invuln + FNP can be hard to get past, never mind the shots to the face I take when disembarking. The thing that keeps working well consistently is beast-hunter vanquisher cannons out of IA:1. ID TL blast 72" re-roll your cover save cannons are the sauce.

I took a mech vet list where I shot 6 ignore cover las cannons and 6 AC/HB chimeras into a riptide and did 2 wounds. Not. Good. What guns scare you? Is it just grav?


I have said clearly how I would attack Tau Empire and I say it as one who actually plays the army. its my jam. I love the Tau Empire and have played it since day one.

Attack their leadership.

Attack them in melee.

I'll add a couple more things to the list:

Stop trying to out shoot them. When someone is THIS weak in melee, why would you ever do anything but pound them into the dust with your bare fists? It works marvelously well. Do it.

Make use of multi-charges. The Overwatch thing can be somewhat mitigated by simply swarming them and multicharging with a less important unit you brought along for the task. Excellent choices: banshees, Nurgle Raptors, and any unit that can spread itself out a bit and be large in number and spread.


As a Tau General, fast assault armies are a real problem. Good use of terrain and other special rules can make my shooting far better than yours will be. So do not try to compete with me this way. It isn't that you'll never win. It's that you're taking an entirely unnecessary chance trying to.

Maelstrom already makes speed important to you. So anyone playing in any missions that involve Maelstrom Objectives should ALREADY have figured out that having a high speed hammer or two is en vogue again. It used to bbe the rule, not hte exception and now its become the exception, not the rule.

For example: though unpopular i won two tournaments in a row when the Adepta Sororitas "Codex" dropped, using an army made of one of every unit. literally did it just to test it out and ended up winning both. Insanely unoptimized list but the glorious MVP's were none other than the Battle Conclave and YES the Sisters Repentia. Both were key to the wins, oddly enough. having two hammers in rhinos that can rush up and say hello is a very good idea.
Blood Angels have this in spades of course as do Dark eldar and many armies that wish to include the utility of it. They just choose not to a lot.

I'm telling you, the Tau Empire has absolutely zero interest in melee. Our BEST shot at melee are Ghostkeels and then only in units of 3. But sure. that unit will wreck someone if you're not careful. But then it's almost 400 points for nothing even remotely as good as Terminators bring to the table so... In the end.... Even that is kind of a failure point for point.

think about your list and ask yourself how long its been since you invested in a fast melee oriented thing like Spawn, Beats Pack, Outflanking Snaalneshi Daemons, Raptors or some other fast punchy unit? Not just podding in to shoot things. Actually getting down and dirty with a unit?

Hell when was the last time people fielded ten man Tactical Marines AS ten man Tactical Marines? Lol. I can count on one hand how many times I've see nit down in the last year. People combat squad almost every time.

So it should come as no big shock when the FIVE Marines pour out, fire their coolness off and get annihilated for little gain! I mean I'd be frustrated too if that was my only plan for Riptides.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Riptides are frustratingly good at CC. MC USR and all that.

" Actually getting down and dirty with a unit? "

You mean like MSU DC? That get targeted and removed almost immediately?

People don't use tac marines in 10s because they are awful.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/12 19:24:44


 
   
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Xenomancers 677751 8448141 5dd4a6247aedba924868 wrote:
I think you are misunderstand me. I mentioned the dude is obvious very skilled but gladius is a popular list - it probably showed up more than any other list. Only 1 of them made it to the final 8 and only 1 the final 16 as far as I've seen. It's the player and not the list in this case. When I'm saying luck I am speaking mostly of matchups - objectives - and dice rolls all combined into one. If gladius is OP and that many people are running it - it would be more prevalent in the top placements.


Think so? I don't know about that. Here again i would repeat my admonishment: skill is the thing. Not the Codex. Not the list. battle Companies will be a mismatch for some armies, but skill will overcome it. I think its probably more true that the players boasting Battle Companies hoped their list would do their fighting for them and it may well have in a matchup here or there. who knows. But i am unwilling to discount the skills of the Battle Company opponents. It is just as likely that those opponents (who obviously DID end up in the top 8) were just better Generals.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/12 19:23:14


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are frustratingly good at CC. MC USR and all that.

" Actually getting down and dirty with a unit? "

You mean like MSU DC? That get targeted and removed almost immediately?

People don't use tac marines in 10s because they are awful.


Really? "frustratingly good" lol?

They are WS2 / I2 / A3 / S6

That is pretty terrible. They will be hitting on 5s against almost everybody and they will almost alway be hitting second. That is an average of one HIT per round lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/12 19:29:54


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notredameguy10 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are frustratingly good at CC. MC USR and all that.

" Actually getting down and dirty with a unit? "

You mean like MSU DC? That get targeted and removed almost immediately?

People don't use tac marines in 10s because they are awful.


Really? "frustratingly good" lol?

They are WS2 / I2 / A3 / S6

That is pretty terrible. They will be hitting on 5s against almost everybody and they will almost alway be hitting second. That is an average of one HIT per round lol


They hit WS 4 on "4"s. That's all they really need. The init doesn't matter, because they never die, so they WILL get to attack. They ignore all armor, so units like sanguinary guard actually lose out big time against them. And, they can generate a S10 attack in a pinch. Coming from someone with no MCs at all in their list, this seems quite good to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/12 19:31:50


 
   
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Martel732 wrote:
notredameguy10 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are frustratingly good at CC. MC USR and all that.

" Actually getting down and dirty with a unit? "

You mean like MSU DC? That get targeted and removed almost immediately?

People don't use tac marines in 10s because they are awful.


Really? "frustratingly good" lol?

They are WS2 / I2 / A3 / S6

That is pretty terrible. They will be hitting on 5s against almost everybody and they will almost alway be hitting second. That is an average of one HIT per round lol


They hit WS 4 on "4"s. That's all they really need. The init doesn't matter, because they never die, so they WILL get to attack. They ignore all armor, so units like sanguinary guard actually lose out big time against them. And, they can generate a S10 attack in a pinch. Coming from someone with no MCs at all in their list, this seems quite good to me.


If you think that is good I don't know what to tell you. You may just be bad at the game. You will on average kill 1 single model per turn in CC, and thats not counting if they have an invulnerable save

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notredameguy10 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
notredameguy10 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are frustratingly good at CC. MC USR and all that.

" Actually getting down and dirty with a unit? "

You mean like MSU DC? That get targeted and removed almost immediately?

People don't use tac marines in 10s because they are awful.


Really? "frustratingly good" lol?

They are WS2 / I2 / A3 / S6

That is pretty terrible. They will be hitting on 5s against almost everybody and they will almost alway be hitting second. That is an average of one HIT per round lol


They hit WS 4 on "4"s. That's all they really need. The init doesn't matter, because they never die, so they WILL get to attack. They ignore all armor, so units like sanguinary guard actually lose out big time against them. And, they can generate a S10 attack in a pinch. Coming from someone with no MCs at all in their list, this seems quite good to me.


If you think that is good I don't know what to tell you. You may just be bad at the game. You will on average kill 1 single model per turn in CC, and thats not counting if they have an invulnerable save


That's a lot of fights won 1-0. The enemy might break, allowed the Riptide to pie plate them on its next turn. It will certainly beat a space marine tac squad or regular ASM squad 1-0. You can't clear wounds with krak grenades or power swords. Wasn't CC supposed to be this thing's weakness? But it isn't. Because MC USR. Realize that a single Riptide swing is work six regular swings against 2+ armor, for example. Yes, that's good.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/02/12 19:35:54


 
   
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Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are frustratingly good at CC. MC USR and all that.

" Actually getting down and dirty with a unit? "

You mean like MSU DC? That get targeted and removed almost immediately?

People don't use tac marines in 10s because they are awful.


You need to employ more imagination my friend. A lot more. Tactically speaking, there is no pain free way to approach a Riptide Wing. Casualties WILL happen. You need to get used to that idea. Casualties are acceptable if the end result is met. So at some point you need to get over the removal of some little plastic men and accept that the other guy paid points for his things too. And he is going to kill you if he can. And he can.

So the real issue here isn't whether he will kill a bunch of stuff. You can't control it nor stop it. It's whether he will win. That is something you can control.

Perhaps a battle report would help?



Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Martel732 wrote:
notredameguy10 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
notredameguy10 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are frustratingly good at CC. MC USR and all that.

" Actually getting down and dirty with a unit? "

You mean like MSU DC? That get targeted and removed almost immediately?

People don't use tac marines in 10s because they are awful.


Really? "frustratingly good" lol?

They are WS2 / I2 / A3 / S6

That is pretty terrible. They will be hitting on 5s against almost everybody and they will almost alway be hitting second. That is an average of one HIT per round lol


They hit WS 4 on "4"s. That's all they really need. The init doesn't matter, because they never die, so they WILL get to attack. They ignore all armor, so units like sanguinary guard actually lose out big time against them. And, they can generate a S10 attack in a pinch. Coming from someone with no MCs at all in their list, this seems quite good to me.


If you think that is good I don't know what to tell you. You may just be bad at the game. You will on average kill 1 single model per turn in CC, and thats not counting if they have an invulnerable save


That's a lot of fights won 1-0. The enemy might break, allowed the Riptide to pie plate them on its next turn. It will certainly beat a space marine tac squad or regular ASM squad 1-0. You can't clear wounds with krak grenades or power swords. Wasn't CC supposed to be this thing's weakness? But it isn't. Because MC USR. Realize that a single Riptide swing is work six regular swings against 2+ armor, for example. Yes, that's good.


You should at least arm the sarge with melta bomb. Ripetide is not a character, so sarge won't get challenged out.
   
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Melta bomb makes it 0-0. and you have more attacks. So...

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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 Jancoran wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are frustratingly good at CC. MC USR and all that.

" Actually getting down and dirty with a unit? "

You mean like MSU DC? That get targeted and removed almost immediately?

People don't use tac marines in 10s because they are awful.


You need to employ more imagination my friend. A lot more. Tactically speaking, there is no pain free way to approach a Riptide Wing. Casualties WILL happen. You need to get used to that idea. Casualties are acceptable if the end result is met. So at some point you need to get over the removal of some little plastic men and accept that the other guy paid points for his things too. And he is going to kill you if he can. And he can.

So the real issue here isn't whether he will kill a bunch of stuff. You can't control it nor stop it. It's whether he will win. That is something you can control.

Perhaps a battle report would help?




You don't think a BA player is used to taking horrific casualties? BA have been one of the most meat-grinder chapters for a long, long time. It's just never been remotely this bad before. Except in 2nd. 2nd was a damn holocaust.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jancoran wrote:
Melta bomb makes it 0-0. and you have more attacks. So...


Melta bomb is a single attack against which it gets at least a +++ and probably 5++/5+++ if not 3++/5+++.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/12 19:50:12


 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Martel732 wrote:

You don't think a BA player is used to taking horrific casualties? BA have been one of the most meat-grinder chapters for a long, long time. It's just never been remotely this bad before. Except in 2nd. 2nd was a damn holocaust.


No one cares.

I hope you understand those three words clearly. No one.

Having said that: Even thoug hwe DON'T care what 2E-7E was "like", what I DO care about is that you're missing the point. My point was... that.... as much as you may not like the "holocaust" you may face against a Riptide Wing, the wins and losses at the end is all the matters.

All..that...matters.

So. since I don't clearly give a rip about the history of your chapter and I obviously dont give a rip about Space Marines in general and almost never play them, what i want you to understand in all this is that if you ACTUALLY want an answer to the question of Riptides and aren't just using this as another forum to complain about Blood angels... then i am telling you what to do to defeat them.

and if you wont take the word of someone with my track record, you wont take anyone's. In which case... why are we talking here? i want to help you. i am trying to help you. and all I'm getting is "Wowa is me". Is that progressing the discussion at all? Is it?

So stop. Digest what i am saying. Actually get your toys out, put them on an actual board and get some coke bottles or whatever, name them Riptides and practice what i am telling you. Show me you even tried to understand and I will be more soft hearted. But i just am not excited about the constant "Wowa is me" responses. They do nothing but convince me that no amount of advice will ever stop the flow of them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/12 19:56:39


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

Only dedicated melee units with the right tools can quickly solo a tide not counting on using a multi assault.

T6
6W
2+/3++/5+++

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Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

I care. I hope you understand those two words, I also really hope that you stop your L2P stuff, it's getting old. "Just melee it" is insane advice when we're talking about a model that starts across the board from you and moves an average of 13" per turn while deleting units, all the while being so ridiculously resilient that you might not even scratch it even if you somehow make it to combat.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

He admittedly loves Tau so there is an obvious bias imo .

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Dakka Veteran



Sweden

Eldar, Necrons and Imperial Knights have a decent chance against Riptide Wing armies. But one needs to reconcile with the fact that some armies just won't be able to cope with it.
   
 
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