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That is how I tried to deal with it. Unfortunately, when my bloodletters came in via deepstrike, they were nice and grouped tight for his large blast shots :(

Ouch, yeah that might be a problem in the long run :(

 Nordicus wrote:
Ouch, yeah that might be a problem in the long run :(

That is a problem in every game for me but since they can´t assault after DS you may aswell let them run to spread em further apart. Anyone noticed that that the khorne daemon startersets have bigger round bases for the bloodletters (40mm)? Shouldn´t that help a bit against blasts? Bigger bases + 2" coherency = Less models under a blast?

Hmm they do seem to be on 32mm bases in the "Get started" set indeed for Khorne Daemons - The juggernauts are also on the AoE stetched oval bases.

Then again, that's for AoS where base sizes doesn't matter. I would go with the 40k boxes for now, in determining what bases should be used.

Looks like I have to rebase my Bloodied Horde. Base sales for the base god.

Well the rulebook says you use the bases that come with each box. So yeah thanks GW for gold standards.

I get your point and i agree but then there is that from the description of the box on the GW page explicitly allowing the box for 40k

This is a great-value box set that gives you an immediate collection of fantastic Daemons of Khorne miniatures, which you can assemble and use right away in games of Warhammer 40,000!

Worst case we have a starter box that doesn´t even provide enough models/units to build a simple CAD and without providing proper base sizes. Nevermind it´s called "Start Collecting" not "Start Playing" well done GW... well done *golfclap*

Right now, the different base sizes help me tell my bloodletter squads apart. I have exactly one squad of each base size painted, and one squad of each that are only primered

I guess I'll have to rebase mine at some point. I probably should do that with the CSM/Raptors/Warptalons anyway. Maybe then those Raptors and Warptalons won't fall over (physically, not in game) when someone looks crosswise at them.

The new bases are great for that reason... if a unit ever needed a wider base, it's a stupid bloodletter with a banner

Bigger bases = less frago which = more Dakka in CC win win.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Daemonkin really struggles for decent AA. Naked Soul Grinders are not bad, but expensive for only 3 skyfire shots (at BS3 no less).

You can grab the new Forgehost formation from the Curse of Wulfen book.
If one soul grinder inflicts a casualty (say with a baleful torrent flamer), then the other two grinders go from hitting 50% of the time to 75% of the time - putting them between BS4 and BS5 in hit rates.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
That is how I tried to deal with it. Unfortunately, when my bloodletters came in via deepstrike, they were nice and grouped tight for his large blast shots :(

You can run after deep strike. It should help a bit.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Maulerfiends will strike last against Knights, so even if you use Lasher Tendrils you need to be prepared to possibly still lose the combat, not to mention that Knights have decent weaponry

This. A sword and board knight will also be ignoring 55% of the incoming hits with either the invuln save for FNP. Fiends just don't have the required damage output.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Daemonkin really struggles for decent AA. Naked Soul Grinders are not bad, but expensive for only 3 skyfire shots (at BS3 no less).

You can grab the new Forgehost formation from the Curse of Wulfen book.
If one soul grinder inflicts a casualty (say with a baleful torrent flamer), then the other two grinders go from hitting 50% of the time to 75% of the time - putting them between BS4 and BS5 in hit rates.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
That is how I tried to deal with it. Unfortunately, when my bloodletters came in via deepstrike, they were nice and grouped tight for his large blast shots :(

You can run after deep strike. It should help a bit.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Maulerfiends will strike last against Knights, so even if you use Lasher Tendrils you need to be prepared to possibly still lose the combat, not to mention that Knights have decent weaponry

This. A sword and board knight will also be ignoring 55% of the incoming hits with either the invuln save for FNP. Fiends just don't have the required damage output.

Wow, that really probably would have helped if I had thought of that. I'll have to do that next time I deepstrike some daemons!

Can Khorne Daemonkin use anything from Imperial Armour vol. 13 The Lost and the Damned? I don't have the book and wondering if there's anything useful for them in there. Is KDK even mentioned in that book?

 D6Damager wrote:
Can Khorne Daemonkin use anything from Imperial Armour vol. 13 The Lost and the Damned? I don't have the book and wondering if there's anything useful for them in there. Is KDK even mentioned in that book?

I saw a mail from FW a few months back, where they confirmed that anything that wasn't dedicated to a god other than Khorne can be used by KDK, as long as you mark it. For example you can use a Decimator Engine if you put a dedication to Khorne on it, but you cannot use a Plaguehulk.

KDK is not mentioned, as they came out after IA:13 but the way FW wrote it, you can take pretty much anything CSM and Daemons can take, as long as it's able to be Khorne marked some way or the other - or is neutral (tanks for example).

Please tell me you can mark Typhons and fire raptors...

I used to take a Bloodthirster as my HQ. Now I don't, and here's why:

The standard Bloodthirster costs the equivalent of a Land Raider. Admittedly, it's a pretty awesome unit, but for the cost, I was looking to cut down. A CSM lord with a jump pack, a 5+ save, and the Axe of Ruin costs you considerably less (About 15 points less than a bare forgefiend, for example) .

What do you get with him? Well as an IC, he can join units. Put him in a group of Flesh Hounds and let them be exactly what you want them to be... scary suicide unit that people would rather kill than let into their front lines. And they are right to be afraid... that axe is AP 2, swings at the lord's initiative, and grants Decapitating Blow (instant death) on rolls of 6! It's a right dangerous weapon in any scenario (though spendy). It's true value is established, however, when the bearer is killed.

A bloodthirster emerges from the corpse of the slain, immediately after the CSM lord is slain. You can put right up there where the Lord got killed, no wonky "coming from reserves" business. So suddenly, you have a Bloodthirster in their face. For less than the cost if you had purchased the bloodthirster in the first place.

Downsides? Although your new BT loses D3 wounds a turn, those can be saved by invul saves so you don't end up losing too many. If my mathhammer isn't too far off, that should average you somewhere around 1.33 wounds per turn on average? With as many wounds as the BT has, and the liklihood that he emerges later in the game (after taking enough firepower to kill the lord) that ensures that he will not be killed by the wound-loss in most cases.

Another downside is that it is only the standard Bloodthirster. For some, this may not be a downside at all, but I know that I would like to get another D-weapon Bloodthirster in if I could.




There are variations possible with the lord, such as putting him on a bike or forgoing his invul save at all... that really depends on your play style, need for points streamlining, and preferences.


What HQs do you take?

I routinely take a Chaos Lord on a Juggernaut, with Power Fist and Axe of Khorne, a Sigil of Corruption, and the Bloodforged Armor. He's pretty killy. I run him with some Khornedogs or Spawn for protection. I usually take a D-thirster as my second HQ if running a CAD.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I routinely take a Chaos Lord on a Juggernaut, with Power Fist and Axe of Khorne, a Sigil of Corruption, and the Bloodforged Armor. He's pretty killy. I run him with some Khornedogs or Spawn for protection. I usually take a D-thirster as my second HQ if running a CAD.

So with a powerfist and a Axe of Khorne both being specialist weapons, he gets an extra attack right? You just choose which profile to use at the start of the assault phase?

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I routinely take a Chaos Lord on a Juggernaut, with Power Fist and Axe of Khorne, a Sigil of Corruption, and the Bloodforged Armor. He's pretty killy. I run him with some Khornedogs or Spawn for protection. I usually take a D-thirster as my second HQ if running a CAD.

So with a powerfist and a Axe of Khorne both being specialist weapons, he gets an extra attack right? You just choose which profile to use at the start of the assault phase?

Yes, this is why I take both. The Axe can gank characters like Space Marines, whereas the Fist is good for taking out vehicles and Monstrous/Gargantuan creatures. He can get a silly amount of attacks on the charge (like 8 or 9), depending on blood tithe abilities and warlord trait.

I just wish the Blood Forged Armor was cheaper. I mean, for a Chaos Lord, you're paying a LOT for EW and FNP. EW is worth its weight in gold, but come on. 40 seems more appropriate.
Goredrinker is a different beast though. Outside of Wraithknights, it can be good against almost anything.

As a fun point with the Axe of Ruin... if given to a Chaos Lord and he becomes a Daemon Prince, it spawns a Bloodthirster. Also, when or if that Daemon Prince dies, it spawns another Bloodthirst. I'm sure a lot of people know this already but I figured I would mention it anyway.

Also that new formation from the Curse of the Wulfen book with the Skullcannons is super brutal. Plop that on a group of anything and watch them all die immediately due to a BS5 S8 AP3 ignores cover apocalyptic blast

Too bad it doesn't have BftBG...

 anticitizen013 wrote:
As a fun point with the Axe of Ruin... if given to a Chaos Lord and he becomes a Daemon Prince, it spawns a Bloodthirster. Also, when or if that Daemon Prince dies, it spawns another Bloodthirst. I'm sure a lot of people know this already but I figured I would mention it anyway.

Also that new formation from the Curse of the Wulfen book with the Skullcannons is super brutal. Plop that on a group of anything and watch them all die immediately due to a BS5 S8 AP3 ignores cover apocalyptic blast

Too bad it doesn't have BftBG...

Except that if you lose one of the cannons you lose the apoc blast. If you don't get first turn, guess what piece of your army is giving your opponent first blood...you won't even get a blood tithe point for it either since the formation doesn't have blood for the blood god.

Cannons work best as summoned units in KDK.

 D6Damager wrote:

 anticitizen013 wrote:
As a fun point with the Axe of Ruin... if given to a Chaos Lord and he becomes a Daemon Prince, it spawns a Bloodthirster. Also, when or if that Daemon Prince dies, it spawns another Bloodthirst. I'm sure a lot of people know this already but I figured I would mention it anyway.

Also that new formation from the Curse of the Wulfen book with the Skullcannons is super brutal. Plop that on a group of anything and watch them all die immediately due to a BS5 S8 AP3 ignores cover apocalyptic blast

Too bad it doesn't have BftBG...

Except that if you lose one of the cannons you lose the apoc blast. If you don't get first turn, guess what piece of your army is giving your opponent first blood...you won't even get a blood tithe point for it either since the formation doesn't have blood for the blood god.

Cannons work best as summoned units in KDK.

Over my tournament this weekend (an escalation tournament) I found that summoning is generally the best use of most of the daemons in the KDK codex, with the exception of flesh hounds. Also for some shenanigans... My friend and I got matched in the last round, and we usually have really brutal games (he plays space wolves). So I racked up enough BTP to summon a bloodthirster... and I chose my Chaos Lord with the Axe of Ruin. I don't know what the FAQ says about this, but we played it as the following:

Named him as model to be transformed into a bloodthirster. Rolled leadership check and passed. Removed him from the board. Placed the Axe of Ruin bloodthirster down, then I placed the newly summoned bloodthirster down.

I'm sure we made mistakes with the order of it there, and I am almost sure that the FAQ wouldn't allow it to be played in that way (or at least ITC FAQs), but he insisted we play it that way for maximum carnage Anybody want to clarify that for us?

You played it correctly. The model was removed as a casualty so you are allowed to summon the Bloodthirster from the axe while transforming.

True on the downside of that formation... but it certainly has the potential to do massive damage.

But the Axe of Ruin shinanigans is just awesome. I prefer the Daemon Prince method though... but two Bloodthirsters are better than one, haha.

 D6Damager wrote:

 anticitizen013 wrote:
As a fun point with the Axe of Ruin... if given to a Chaos Lord and he becomes a Daemon Prince, it spawns a Bloodthirster. Also, when or if that Daemon Prince dies, it spawns another Bloodthirst. I'm sure a lot of people know this already but I figured I would mention it anyway.

Also that new formation from the Curse of the Wulfen book with the Skullcannons is super brutal. Plop that on a group of anything and watch them all die immediately due to a BS5 S8 AP3 ignores cover apocalyptic blast

Too bad it doesn't have BftBG...

Except that if you lose one of the cannons you lose the apoc blast. If you don't get first turn, guess what piece of your army is giving your opponent first blood...you won't even get a blood tithe point for it either since the formation doesn't have blood for the blood god.

Cannons work best as summoned units in KDK.

If I had that formation of Skull Cannons and didn't go first I would place them in reserve. If i had the tools like banners i could DS safetly or simply come on my board edge, move 12" and shoot 36". 48" range from my table edge on turn 2 with the blast is still pretty awesome. Not having first turn isn't the end of the world. It isn't ideal and if you fail the reserve roll it will be awful.

I got my hands on a Brass Scorpion...

Anyone tried using that "Hellforged Hunting Pack" formation?
It's 1 Brass Scorpion with any EIGHT of the following: Defiler, 'drake, Forgefield, Maulerfiend, Grinders, Blood Slaughter, and Decimator.

I have enough to take:
Scropion
2x BaleDrake
3x Maulerfiend
3x Soul Grinder...

Dumb question coming your way: This formation states it's a KDK faction... does that mean the Blood Tithe is in effect? (or, does the models need to have "blood for the blood god!" rules??)

 whembly wrote:
I got my hands on a Brass Scorpion...

Anyone tried using that "Hellforged Hunting Pack" formation?
It's 1 Brass Scorpion with any EIGHT of the following: Defiler, 'drake, Forgefield, Maulerfiend, Grinders, Blood Slaughter, and Decimator.

I have enough to take:
Scropion
2x BaleDrake
3x Maulerfiend
3x Soul Grinder...

Dumb question coming your way: This formation states it's a KDK faction... does that mean the Blood Tithe is in effect? (or, does the models need to have "blood for the blood god!" rules??)

You need the Blood for the Blood god rule to use or generate blood tithe. So the Brass Scorpion won't do anything with Blood Tithe but the rest of your daemon engines will

I've used the formation. Its the ultimate RPS army. Its only as effective as your opponents anti tank is ineffective. If they have enough to kill your vehicles you lose. If not you win.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 whembly wrote:
I got my hands on a Brass Scorpion...

Anyone tried using that "Hellforged Hunting Pack" formation?
It's 1 Brass Scorpion with any EIGHT of the following: Defiler, 'drake, Forgefield, Maulerfiend, Grinders, Blood Slaughter, and Decimator.

I have enough to take:
Scropion
2x BaleDrake
3x Maulerfiend
3x Soul Grinder...

Dumb question coming your way: This formation states it's a KDK faction... does that mean the Blood Tithe is in effect? (or, does the models need to have "blood for the blood god!" rules??)

You need the Blood for the Blood god rule to use or generate blood tithe. So the Brass Scorpion won't do anything with Blood Tithe but the rest of your daemon engines will

I've used the formation. Its the ultimate RPS army. Its only as effective as your opponents anti tank is ineffective. If they have enough to kill your vehicles you lose. If not you win.

They really ought to update the Brass Scorpion to give it BftBG in a KDK army. Seems kind of obvious especially since they have already done it for the Kytan, and if I'm not mistaken, a Chaos Knight of Khorne.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 whembly wrote:
I got my hands on a Brass Scorpion...

Anyone tried using that "Hellforged Hunting Pack" formation?
It's 1 Brass Scorpion with any EIGHT of the following: Defiler, 'drake, Forgefield, Maulerfiend, Grinders, Blood Slaughter, and Decimator.

I have enough to take:
Scropion
2x BaleDrake
3x Maulerfiend
3x Soul Grinder...

Dumb question coming your way: This formation states it's a KDK faction... does that mean the Blood Tithe is in effect? (or, does the models need to have "blood for the blood god!" rules??)

You need the Blood for the Blood god rule to use or generate blood tithe. So the Brass Scorpion won't do anything with Blood Tithe but the rest of your daemon engines will

I've used the formation. Its the ultimate RPS army. Its only as effective as your opponents anti tank is ineffective. If they have enough to kill your vehicles you lose. If not you win.

They really ought to update the Brass Scorpion to give it BftBG in a KDK army. Seems kind of obvious especially since they have already done it for the Kytan, and if I'm not mistaken, a Chaos Knight of Khorne.

The Knight and Kytan were given rules after KDK was out so they took it into account.

Technically speaking the Brass Scorpian isn't even a option for KDK normally.

Any updates on recent Tournament play and KDK standings?