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 CptJake wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
And when I was that age the world was a different and in many ways safer place than it is now.

But was it really, or is it just increased news coverage of anything remotely scary that makes it seem so? When our police got mobile breathalyzers instead of having to judge whether the suspicious driver had to be taken in for a blood test the drunk driving numbers went up sharply, but that doesn't mean people didn't drive drunk before. They just weren't caught as often because the police only brought in the really obvious cases for an official test.

Of course I could show the statistics that violent crime per capita has decreased from when I was a kid through the present, but of course, those are just statistics based on facts...

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778268.html



EDIT: Yeah, The stats show it is safer today. By far.

I still do not think letting kids go into stores unattended is a good idea, unless the store management agrees to it, and I don't know many that would.

Children are at a lot more risk in other ways though. Harassment online, due to the boom in mobile phone use and vast social media outlets, is a huge problem and a lot of it is very cruel and tends towards exploitation and coercion of children. A lot of parents aren't aware of the extent of it, or what their children spend their time online and who they contact, or the fact that much of it it weakly monitored and regulated. Children are much more likely to get into contact with sexual predators now than when most of us were children. The number of children that have sent, be sent, or exchanged pornographic materials of themselves and others is probably greatly underreported.

Overall crime is down in society, but this other stuff is rife, stuff that wasn't accessible to us 20 years ago.

 Breotan wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
If it was, I really wonder where her folks were and why they let her into any store unattended at that age.

Why should a 13yr old girl be unable to go into a game (toy) store without parents? When I was that age, I was out and about without parents in tow most every day. I used to hit up comic book shops and buy my RPG supplies without my parents present and everything was just fine.

Sometimes it is safer for men. Sometimes the neighborhood makes a difference. I know at least 4 family members who were assaulted or raped in their early teens while out and about alone. If I have a daughter, she is not going to go out alone at that age without at least 2 friends, a big dog or some sort of weapon.

Hell, when I was substitute teaching, I saw gak worse than that chanting story in the classroom several times. And when I went to the principal, it was always the same story: they knew the instigator was a problem, he has already been kicked out of numerous schools, they are working on getting him kicked out here, and he'll probably go to another unsuspecting middle school rather than juvie. The other kids' parents were called and either, a) didn't care, or b) beat them with the vacuum cord for making the school call them at work.

The idea that kids have unlimited access to the Internet is flat out piss poor parenting. But no we can't have someone raise the kids at home as no one can afford it or it's sexist .

Almost every child has a smartphone now. So they have unlimited access to the Internet.

I'm of many minds about this and might post a bit about it later.

However, one thought does come up to me. Having been an avid follower of FLGS Horror Stories and the sheer number of them that have involved Dakka's very own ButteryCommissar and his experience in the hobby... In short, some people are just that unlucky. And, knowing from some other people I know in real life, some people genuinely are what I mentally refer to as "drama magnets" (I would like to find a less mean spirited phrasing off this). - But yeah, there are people I know, where something insane or crazy or terrible keeps on happening to them.

So, it's not impossible. Additionally, as a guy, I'm pretty sure I could list various rubbish experiences I've had in the hobby and hobby shops over the last 18 years. So, it doesn't seem unlikely that a woman involved in the hobby over the past 20 and is far more active in the hobby scene (eg working in a store, going to actual conventions) would have proportionally more 'bad stories' - nor, is it unlikely that those proportionally more 'bad stories' would have a sexual harrassment component to them.

But there is another part of my mind that is, "I do know other people (women included) who have made things, or manipulated situations so that they do become a martyr in this sort of vein." On the other hand, the number of those I've encountered is WAY lower than my aforementioned 'drama magnets.' So, I don't disbelieve Wyrd's response either.

Of course, people always have the need for 'good guys' and bad guys' and it could very well be that every fact said in that article is true. As it could very well be that every fact said in Wyrd Miniatures response is true. But does that mean that the interpretation of the facts is 100 percent accurate? Not necessarily.

Is it entirely possible that someone with the same name as Wyrd's staff are emailing the lady involved? Yep. Does that necessarily guarantee they're staff members? Nope. - And that would be a very very silly thing for a staffmember to do anyhows. - Especially in a company that probably numbers less than 30 people.

I could (hypothetically) - and I acknowledge this is getting into conspiracy theory territory here. Imagine that someone, so beat down at various rubbishy events that have happened to them over 20 years does decide that 'enough is enough' and attempting to get their own back, by doing the things that Wyrd allege. Or by taking various stories like our own FLGS Horror Stories thread and compiling them into a single article. But I'm not saying that happened in this situation.

And yet, even if it is a composite thing, or a case of someone having really really bad luck (or even moderately bad luck, if you take into account time gaming / interactions with new people), does that really change anything? If most female gamers have one bad story about this sort of thing. Isn't that one bad story too many?

Would it really hurt Wyrd, for example, to run that response through their lawyer on retainer and publish a generic statement on an "about us" section of their website, or a newsfeed. Perhaps stating an inclusive policy. - Would that be a bad thing for other companies to do?

Would it helps? Maybe not (Probably not), but it might. - Considering the investment required (not much), the possibly positive press from doing such a thing, isn't it worth trying out?

Related: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2016/04/how_she_just_wants_attention_became_america_s_hottest_sexist_insult.html

https://owenkcstephens.com/2016/04/03/ways-i-have-failed/

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Related: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2016/04/how_she_just_wants_attention_became_america_s_hottest_sexist_insult.html

Say "Thank you!" to Sarkeesian and especially Quinn for this who who....lesaled themselves out for money.

Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

Some make 3 grand a month for not doing anything. Then there's the speaking fees and the lump sum cash drops AS makes $20k per speech as an example.

Oldmike wrote:

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

Some make 3 grand a month for not doing anything. Then there's the speaking fees and the lump sum cash drops AS makes $20k per speech as an example.

No, Ms. Sarkeesian gets her money for "criticizing pop culture" once every week or two

Oldmike wrote:

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

Some make 3 grand a month for not doing anything. Then there's the speaking fees and the lump sum cash drops AS makes $20k per speech as an example.

Before it ended she was a guest on 'The Colbert Report'. Nobody with an opposing view has ever gotten that kind of publicity esp. on gaming sites. It usually works out that they complain about racism and feminism issues or they just write a normal piece like they're supposed to. Not gonna say all of a site's writers are like this but some are. End of the day it just gets views I guess. Most gaming sites write false reviews though. They are bought out as we all knew they were. If they're not snobs criticizing and complaining instead of actually working for a job then they lie because their company was paid for a review.

From the blog "Make no mistake that this is terrorism"

No. That is harassment. You use big enough words in your rant to know the difference.

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

Sarkeesian's last kickstarter was looking for $6,000 and got $160,000. There's a lot of money in this.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

Sarkeesian's last kickstarter was looking for $6,000 and got $160,000. There's a lot of money in this.

Being honest here wtf was she Kickstarting? What could she possibly do or what does she do that's even worth that kind of money. That's an absurdly large amount of money.

Seriously that's enough money to Kickstart a freaking business or small time game. She could even get a really nice house out of that kind of money.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

Sarkeesian's last kickstarter was looking for $6,000 and got $160,000. There's a lot of money in this.

Being honest here wtf was she Kickstarting? What could she possibly do or what does she do that's even worth that kind of money. That's an absurdly large amount of money.

Seriously that's enough money to Kickstart a freaking business or small time game. She could even get a really nice house out of that kind of money.

As far as I'm aware, one was to make a series of videos tackling the difference of males and females in the video game industry. Which she didn't actually deliver completely on. And the videos that were made were of a rather poor quality of research, IMHO.

 kronk wrote:
From the blog "Make no mistake that this is terrorism"

No. That is harassment. You use big enough words in your rant to know the difference.

Rule #2: You can never use "too big" words. Bonus points for claiming PTSD after being insulted in an internet chat room.

Sigvatr hurt my feels. You owe me a coke after I blog about it!

 kronk wrote:
Sigvatr hurt my feels. You owe me a coke after I blog about it!

Stop mansplaining, Sigvatr needs to go to jail for life for being a terrorist!

Ok my eyes saw that and told me it said:
"Sigvatr hurt my feels. You owe me coke and blow! "

"what happens in Dumpwater, stays in Dumpwater."
-Dumpwater town motto.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

Sarkeesian's last kickstarter was looking for $6,000 and got $160,000. There's a lot of money in this.

Being honest here wtf was she Kickstarting? What could she possibly do or what does she do that's even worth that kind of money. That's an absurdly large amount of money.

Seriously that's enough money to Kickstart a freaking business or small time game. She could even get a really nice house out of that kind of money.

She was kickstarting to produce videos about gaming and stuff.

From my personal experience as a former gaming video producer, $160,000 isn't a huge amount of money. You can make some good videos for that, not doubt, but it's not massive.

You couldn't afford a one-bed flat in southern Britain for that little money.

Her videos are literally her standing in front of a greenscreen complaining.

My observation is that Anita S. is a bit of a gakhead, but she got a far more vitriolic reaction from "the gaming community" than is normal when someone is a bit of a gakhead.

Likewise, here is a person complaining about poor treatment and a hobby company, and it gets it's own 4 page (so far?) thread. This hobby is full of people complaining that GW ruined their lives, and they don't each get a thread.

So, I am pretty cynical about the whole GG thing and it seems like a pretty bad case of thin skin on the part of the various defenders of games culture.

 Da Boss wrote:
Likewise, here is a person complaining about poor treatment and a hobby company, and it gets it's own 4 page (so far?) thread. This hobby is full of people complaining that GW ruined their lives, and they don't each get a thread.

You don't actually lump the "complaint" in the OP of this thread with a run-of-the-mill gripe about GW (or any other gaming company for that matter), right?

A bitch-fest about GW doesn't usually end with the author labeling male gamers as terrorists, or making nearly as many awful accusations as are made in by the author quoted in the OP. Perhaps those factors are the cause of 4+ pages of discussion, not so much that a is woman complaining about war games.

 Da Boss wrote:
My observation is that Anita S. is a bit of a gakhead, but she got a far more vitriolic reaction from "the gaming community" than is normal when someone is a bit of a gakhead.

Likewise, here is a person complaining about poor treatment and a hobby company, and it gets it's own 4 page (so far?) thread. This hobby is full of people complaining that GW ruined their lives, and they don't each get a thread.

So, I am pretty cynical about the whole GG thing and it seems like a pretty bad case of thin skin on the part of the various defenders of games culture.

In the defense of everyone else, I don't think most of those "GW ruined my life" threads involve accusations of sexual assault. Maybe I've been reading the wrong the threads.

I checked out her story to see if I could determine where she was located. Some small towns in parts of Canada are backwards enough that the stories described are not outside the realm of possibility, and the RCMP has a pretty crap track record when it comes to women.

Idk, though. It all seems pretty far fetched. Her stories read like a parody of what definitely does happen every day.

 feeder wrote:
I checked out her story to see if I could determine where she was located. Some small towns in parts of Canada are backwards enough that the stories described are not outside the realm of possibility, and the RCMP has a pretty crap track record when it comes to women.

Idk, though. It all seems pretty far fetched. Her stories read like a parody of what definitely does happen every day.

Agreed.
I will admit, I did ask on her tumblr for her to explain her article. She categorically shut me down.
I really have no sympathy for her if she refuses to have a civilized conversation about it.

It's telling how this sort of discussion always comes back to Sarkeesian/Quinn

Sarkeesian didn't defraud anyone, she got the money and delivered her product, compare that to what happened with Tropes Against Me

If you don't like her product, whatever, but to claim that she and other folks are somehow making big bucks being "professional victims" is a crock

 Da Boss wrote:
My observation is that Anita S. is a bit of a gakhead, but she got a far more vitriolic reaction from "the gaming community" than is normal when someone is a bit of a gakhead.

Likewise, here is a person complaining about poor treatment and a hobby company, and it gets it's own 4 page (so far?) thread. This hobby is full of people complaining that GW ruined their lives, and they don't each get a thread.

So, I am pretty cynical about the whole GG thing and it seems like a pretty bad case of thin skin on the part of the various defenders of games culture.

methinks its because most people dont complain about GW being terrorists or fill their posts with other such socially and politically charged language, nor do they cast aspersions on large segments of the population, nor are they making insinuatuions or open accusations of very serious crimes, theyre just bitching about GW.

There's a huge difference in the language being used and the buttons being pushed.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 CorporateLogo wrote:
Yes, those diabolical social justice warriors, out to make hundreds of dollars on Patreon

Sarkeesian's last kickstarter was looking for $6,000 and got $160,000. There's a lot of money in this.

Being honest here wtf was she Kickstarting? What could she possibly do or what does she do that's even worth that kind of money. That's an absurdly large amount of money.

Seriously that's enough money to Kickstart a freaking business or small time game. She could even get a really nice house out of that kind of money.

She was kickstarting to produce videos about gaming and stuff.

From my personal experience as a former gaming video producer, $160,000 isn't a huge amount of money. You can make some good videos for that, not doubt, but it's not massive.

You couldn't afford a one-bed flat in southern Britain for that little money.

That must be why she went on another fundraiser to read wiki pages about women in history. All the money goes into a 501c4 charity, which only exists to pay her a yearly salary. Then when she's bored with the videos she can cash out at any time and transfer the money to herself.

the amazing atheist did a good piece on it.

 CorporateLogo wrote:


If you don't like her product, whatever, but to claim that she and other folks are somehow making big bucks being "professional victims" is a crock

Really? What about this woman trying to get a position in this company by using blackmail? At least that seems to be the claims of Wyrd which I actually believe. I don't honestly think any gaming community could ever be this bad esp. in this day and age.

-----

Also this woman (OP article lady) receives hate because she most likely lied about everything or exaggerated the actual story to such an extent just to get people angry or to view it. There are people in the feminist movement that probably believe what they say but there are some that don't or probably go so overboard with it they just demean the ones that might truly feel something is wrong and might be right about it.

You seriously can't compare that to people pissed about GW's greed or their killing off of a well loved games universe (warhammer fantasy). Keep in mind when we complain about GW it's probably just the heads of the company and business practices. I don't hate everybody that's worked for GW. In fact I like quite a few that have. It's also not comparable to hating white guys or positioning them out to be the bad guys. That is just absurd, sexist and racist. Don't get me wrong do we all know how to run a business as GW does? No. However we've heard of businesses in gaming that have treated their customers better and been more well loved. I suppose when you're at the top you just get corrupt and drunk with power. Perhaps talking about a gaming company so seriously is absurd itself but for a game we invest hundreds if not thousands of dollars in (or whatever equivalent in currency) I should expect better quality, better treatment of the player base and better balance. What we get is disappointment.

I mean they say warhammer fantasy didn't sell well. Yeah well guess what? Their LotR game didn't either. I suppose that means LotR is unpopular. Oh wait what about the movies and a gajillion games inspired by the books that are about 100 years old? Thing is warhammer fantasy was great but just handled poorly by GW just like everything these days.