Has Privateer Press Priced Their Minis Out of Your Market?

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**Apple fox**

No, I am not. But I don't like seeing prices go up.

We see people that think every game is expencive, And others that are willing to spend a bit more for the experience.
even getting players to buy enough for a mordheim or frost grave warband is tough sometimes. And they only need 2 wizzies for frost grave :( ( I provide everything other for forstgrave)

Some minis I don't think are worth the price, but others I think are great and happy to pay. But I don't think they are at a completely unreasonable price yet, but are in the more premium price range.

**TheAuldGrump**

I was going to say that I have just stopped buying PP miniatures, but then I realized that it has been years since I last bought any.

So, whether it is price or not, there is at least some reason why I don't buy PP miniatures, whether price, sculpt, or fluff. (The last mini I bought was Nemo...)

The Auld Grump - I have to admit that I like the Trenchers and the light 'Jack that went with them....

**Da Boss**

On the price of a game argument, hmmm.

Well, I used to sort of see the argument. But nowadays the market has exploded in terms of available, decent quality minis.

So we have access to a huge number of proxies, often competitively priced.

I'm not too bothered about playing with official minis, and if an event won't allow me to play with appropriate proxies (by this I mean proxies where everything is easily identifiable by sight) then I'll just go elsewhere for my games.

So in that enivronment, if someone told me I just needed this one £30 model to play, I'd look for a cheaper proxy or not play the game, since I am a gamer, yeah, but I'm also a collector and painter of minis.

That said, the game does add some value. If I had a vibrant community near me and time to play a lot of games, the value of PP minis would increase a little bit for me.

I don't mind paying for quality either. But I don't find PP's minis to be of more than middling quality. Some standout awesomeness, let down by being in a crappy material.

**Deadnight**

MattofWar wrote:

What I think is really going on with PP's relationship with online sales is that the boom has ended for them. They've had years of growth as people left GW and checked them out and I'm guessing that's largely come to an end. Everyone who used to deal with GW who left for PP has done so. It's easy to not care about discounters making money selling online when you are growing and everything is great and booming, but when that ends and things are flat lining and sales through brick and mortar stores start to drop, it's an easy thing to blame it on one of your sales channels cannibalizing another.

You know, I actually suspect that this is closer to the mark than a lot of people realise.

**Orlanth**

Another factor is that the top end models for Warmahordes, while impressive dont compare well to top tier GW models.

They dont have anything with as much wowe as a Mortis Engine or ork Stompa. Yet the models they do have are very expensive.

Back at the beginning of Mk2 there was a wide enough range and you could take some uni8ts a couple of jacks and large beasts and a seelction of casters nad make a faction. You still can today, but you feel that to do a faction justice you need to invest a lot more. Like a colossal and more large stuff and different units etc.
All told a Khador collection is as big a task to paint and pay for as Space Marines, and as prices rise the initiation to a faction becomes more of an investment.

Sure entry level is stil low, but people start putting off starting a new faction when they reralise it will cost quite a bit by ther time they have scratched that itch, and decide to buy something else instead. That something else has often been a return to 40K or a move on to Infinity or Mantic.

Yes the bubble has burst and the good times are rolling to their end. PP is by no means doomed, but its got a harder for them recently and will get harder still.

**Grimtuff**

Orlanth wrote:
Another factor is that the top end models for Warmahordes, while impressive dont compare well to top tier GW models.

They dont have anything with as much wowe as a Mortis Engine or ork Stompa. Yet the models they do have are very expensive

Respectfully disagree.

Have you seen the Archangel?

Spoiler:

The Sacral Vault?

Spoiler:

Even some of their "lesser" centrepiece models like Ruin.

Spoiler:

or the Hand of Judgement?

Spoiler:

Then we have Iron Mother Directrix, one of the most beautiful caster sculpts out there.

Spoiler:

The recent GW centrepiece models have far too much clutter and "pyro and ballyhoo" over them. If that's your thing then I'm not gonna change you opinion, but PP has loads of wonderful models in their line.

**VeteranNoob**

Personally like the plastic, the new real plastic even bette, over metal. Resin is cool.
They are not cheap nor have been for years. I love my trolls so they work but for humans and humanoid infantry it's a toss u.

**welshhoppo**

To be fair, as least when they started consolidated the old metal kits to the newer plastic ones ( looking at you iron fangs) they made them cheaper. As oppose to GW, who reboxed eldar models and made them twice the price for no real reason.

**Da Boss**

I've a big issue with the proportions and scaling on the Troll range. The troll infantry scaling and proportions are all over the place - some have huge cartoony hands, others have more modestly scaled hands. Some have giant heads, others have more reasonable ones.

It's a crap shoot.

**hotsauceman1**

Yes, when butcher3 came. I looked at thr 60$ price tag and laughed. Asked if it was a msiprint and the cahsier assured me it wasnt.
This is a 3 model unit. One that in reality costs 0 points to add. Is now considered integral to khadors army that costs more than a gw tank.
Not to mention the gak that is their restic kits.

**Zond**

I'm not priced out but I am pausing purchases. Currently I have an unstarted Legion project and a small Dwarf project. I was going to expand the Legion with the Blightbringer and possibly pick up some Blindwater. On the cards was a second main faction.

I'm pausing all that as I'm not sure I really want to support PP long term now. I'll probably still make the odd purchase like I do with GW, but it will be something I will enjoy painting or something that has enough value I can use with other rules. Or might go nuts, and try and sell or trade the unstarted stuff.

**DrNo172000**

Hmmm... I won't buy any toys unless I can find it 20% off at the least, and that depends on how much I want it. The less I desire something the deeper discount needs to be and if it's something I only have a passing interest in then 50% off is the threshold. It's the only way I've managed to be able to have miniatures for 13+ games. Luckily I own just about every PP model I need.

**keezus**

I've transitioned to painting predominantly as opposed to gaming. GW and PP have priced me out. PP is still making stuff that gets my creative juices going - For example, I'm greatly interested in getting the Dhunian Knot to paint, but given the size of my backlog, and the cost of the (admittedly awesome resin) models... They're going to have to wait.

Going full painter has also opened up non gaming models. I'm currently lusting after a bunch of stuff from Nocturna Models. The fact that both PP and GW's mass-produced plastic kits are priced the same as, or more than 70mm boutique, small production run, collector's resin pieces is insane.

**chromedog**

PP haven't priced their way out of my wallet.

Their stylistic and aesthetic choices did that a long time ago instead.

**jonolikespie**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yes, when butcher3 came. I looked at thr 60$ price tag and laughed. Asked if it was a msiprint and the cahsier assured me it wasnt.
This is a 3 model unit. One that in reality costs 0 points to add. Is now considered integral to khadors army that costs more than a gw tank.
Not to mention the gak that is their restic kits.

Butcher3 is 3 40mm based models and a ton of metal in one kit, I think there is about as much metal in that box as there was in my older metal Kodiak. Seems reasonable to me. But then again (and I know I'm beating this horse to death, I'm sorry) he ISN'T more expensive than a GW tank down here....

*Edit*
You say $60 for Buthcer3 in the US? GW sells it's terminator models for between $20 (for the finecrap ones) and $30 (for the new plastics). That's $60-$90 for 3 40mm base models from GW and they are in MUCH cheaper materials.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I would say absolutely yes, but I haven't seen any of PP's HIPS minis nor their pricing. Googling "privateer press hips", "... Plastic", "... Polystyrene"' etc., has only resulted in odd bits in their catalogue or very old conversations about glues that don't work. Would a kind soul please give this poor wretch a link to some PP HIPS minis?

**jonolikespie**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I would say absolutely yes, but I haven't seen any of PP's HIPS minis nor their pricing. Googling "privateer press hips", "... Plastic", "... Polystyrene"' etc., has only resulted in odd bits in their catalogue or very old conversations about glues that don't work. Would a kind soul please give this poor wretch a link to some PP HIPS minis?

https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/khador/warjacks/grolar
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cryx/warcasters/deneghra-the-soul-weaver
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/convergence-of-cyriss/battle-engines/transfinite-emergence-projector-permutation-servitors
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cryx/colossals/sepulcher

That colossal is a dual kit and down about $25 USD compared at least to the Khador colossal in resin. The grolar is the same price as the other khador heavies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/bols-unboxing-blackhide-wrastlerblind-walker-combo-kit.html

**Schmapdi**

Grimtuff wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
Dysartes wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
They still release a disappointing amount of new stuff in metal too, (like Croak Hunters, a 10 man unit in metal, yuck) and still use a fair bit of metal with their resin kits (hybrid kits, double yuck). And stuff like the Butcher 3 is crazy expensive (like $60? for a character model - even if he comes with 2 big dogs is kinda crazy).

Hang on - when did using metal become a bad thing?

I'm sure I remember hearing on one of the Primecast podcasts (when I was listening to it) that their intent was to use the material to produce a figure that they felt was the best-suited for the design, whether than be metal, resin, PVC or HIPs - or a composite of pieces from multiple materials.

For non-character models? About a decade ago.

You really have quite a skewed view there. The market leader, GW were producing units in metal right up until Finecast came about in 2011.

That doesn't make it right. And they were still selling old units in metal - they weren't producing new ones. I'm complaining about PP releasing NEW units/etc in metal, in 2015. Which is wildly anachronistic for a company with PP's money/clout.

**jonolikespie**

What's wrong with making models in metal?
Ive never heard an objective reason people can say it's an inferior material, it's sturdier than resin or plastic and holds detail better than plastic. Sure it can be harder to convert and you may need to pin things but that's subjective opinion as to whick is better.

**Buzzsaw**

jonolikespie wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I would say absolutely yes, but I haven't seen any of PP's HIPS minis nor their pricing. Googling "privateer press hips", "... Plastic", "... Polystyrene"' etc., has only resulted in odd bits in their catalogue or very old conversations about glues that don't work. Would a kind soul please give this poor wretch a link to some PP HIPS minis?
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/khador/warjacks/grolar
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cryx/warcasters/deneghra-the-soul-weaver
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/convergence-of-cyriss/battle-engines/transfinite-emergence-projector-permutation-servitors
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cryx/colossals/sepulcher

That colossal is a dual kit and down about $25 USD compared at least to the Khador colossal in resin. The grolar is the same price as the other khador heavies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/bols-unboxing-blackhide-wrastlerblind-walker-combo-kit.html

Thanks for the listings, and these are indeed very impressive models! But that's rather part of my point: while some of the centerpieces are very nice indeed, common 'bread and butter units', so to speak, tend more towards ancient styling and poor material choices. I would note that, of the models you list, the Cyriss battle engine is the only one (to my knowledge) that could be regarded as a 'staple'. Though that may be more a legacy of the very small model list for Cyriss, and the extremely impressive stats of that model. Denny3 is not exactly on the short list for starting a faction, nor the sepulcher (the grolar I don't know much about at all).

Additionally, while I have no objections to metal models in theory; in practice I find that my patience for assembling large units (say, 6+ models) is profoundly limited.

I would really love some Nyss/arctic elves done in the style of the art that PP has for them, to give an example, but the existing models are simply... ghastly.

**carldooley**

Orlanth wrote:
A lot of ancilliary feature make up the value and whether it is worth the price.

Take Battletech for instance, people pay a lot for original miniatures, and even more if they are unseen. The per unit price for the current range from Iron Wind Metals is also very high for a miniature standing about as tall as a space marine because the players buy individual miniatures from a vast range.
No one really complains about the price even though on a per unit basis is makes PP seem cheap.

Hawk Wargames also knows how to charge people for DZC it's not a cheap game either to buy an army or on a per model basis, but people like the companies attitude so the price matters less.

Games Workshop has lower prices than PP but generates more hate than any other miniature company out there. Bootleggers of GW miniatures are treated like folk heroes, while bootlegging anyone elses miniatures would induce nerdrage.

So what about PP and their prices? People tend to forgive them as a company because they get the rules right and don't bullcrap the customers over army books. It buys them a lot of good will, and the models are sold in useful sized packets for an enjoyable game. But the price is creeping up and up now, and the range is expanding so investment levels to keep in the game are raising and the bubble is beginning to burst now they are starting to be dicks on pricing. All this may have a lot more bearing on the sub-concious tolerance of the companies prices.

The business of value isnt rational, it's subjective, and who you are buying the models from and whether you like the producers ethos has as much to do with whether the purchase is good for you as the price and product.

exalted!
I always grin deprecatingly when I see price threads for hobby games. Yes, GW and PP tabletop games are pricy, but, anyone know what the current price for a Modern Eldrazi deck can go for? I have always said that in the long run, miniature games are generally much cheaper than CCGs like Magic: the Gathering. You buy what you need for your army and you are done. Occasionally you update some stuff, but card games are literally like playing nickel slots in comparison. Ever seen anyone go through booster packs? Then see someone come and buy a miniature from GW or PP? Who (generally speaking) spends LESS?

**AlexHolker**

carldooley wrote:
I always grin deprecatingly when I see price threads for hobby games. Yes, GW and PP tabletop games are pricy, but, anyone know what the current price for a Modern Eldrazi deck can go for? I have always said that in the long run, miniature games are generally much cheaper than CCGs like Magic: the Gathering. You buy what you need for your army and you are done. Occasionally you update some stuff, but card games are literally like playing nickel slots in comparison. Ever seen anyone go through booster packs? Then see someone come and buy a miniature from GW or PP? Who (generally speaking) spends LESS?

There's always a bigger donkey-cave. That Wizards of the Coast has an even more dysfunctional relationship with its customers than GW or PP doesn't make GW or PP good.

**Jehan-reznor**

Love the everblight faction but haven't bought in years, still have a backlog, and haven't played the new rules yet, and the prices ain't helping either

**Silent Puffin?**

chromedog wrote:
PP haven't priced their way out of my wallet.

Their stylistic and aesthetic choices did that a long time ago instead.

+1. I did have a small Cygnar army a long time ago but almost all of it was proxied from other manufacturers and it hasn't seen a table in nearly a decade now. PP quite simply makes nothing that I want.

**BrookM**

It's also a bit of a downer when you buy a boxed set of a squad or unit and can end up having up to three duplicate models in the same set.

**Grimtuff**

jonolikespie wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I would say absolutely yes, but I haven't seen any of PP's HIPS minis nor their pricing. Googling "privateer press hips", "... Plastic", "... Polystyrene"' etc., has only resulted in odd bits in their catalogue or very old conversations about glues that don't work. Would a kind soul please give this poor wretch a link to some PP HIPS minis?
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/khador/warjacks/grolar
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cryx/warcasters/deneghra-the-soul-weaver
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/convergence-of-cyriss/battle-engines/transfinite-emergence-projector-permutation-servitors
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cryx/colossals/sepulcher

That colossal is a dual kit and down about $25 USD compared at least to the Khador colossal in resin. The grolar is the same price as the other khador heavies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/bols-unboxing-blackhide-wrastlerblind-walker-combo-kit.html

Denny3 isn't HIPs, she's the old material. The only other models in HIPs ATM are the Meat Thresher and the Cygnar Reliant/Stormclad kit.

**AllSeeingSkink**

jonolikespie wrote:
What's wrong with making models in metal?
Ive never heard an objective reason people can say it's an inferior material, it's sturdier than resin or plastic and holds detail better than plastic. Sure it can be harder to convert and you may need to pin things but that's subjective opinion as to whick is better.

"It's harder to convert", "It's harder to prep", "paint doesn't stick to it as well", "long thin parts are more likely to bend or be bent", "tall narrow models are less balanced and more likely to topple when they are metal" and "construction is more difficult" are objective reasons. The subjective part is how important those is to you, but the reasons themselves are objective.

The main thing I like about metal over plastic is that the casting method is more open to variety. If GW weren't using metal in the 80's and 90's I can guarantee we wouldn't have the variety of IG regiments or SM chapters we currently do. Also having more detail.

Resin vs metal, I'm struggling to think of a reasons I would like metal over resin. I guess the big one is resin parts have a tendency to warp and if they came warped sometimes you can fix them but they might gradually go back to their warped state. But then thin metal parts being so prone to bending isn't awesome either.

**jonolikespie**

I had to check an unboxing video because I was sure she was the HIP, but no I stand corrected. What is she then, she doesn't look like the old plastic/resin hybrid? At least it looks like a darker material than previously.

(For reference the unboxing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eEn7vT0jZg )

**MattofWar**

That's the problem with calling it all "plastic" in their description. Even people who think they know which are which will get it wrong.

**Grimtuff**

MattofWar wrote:
That's the problem with calling it all "plastic" in their description. Even people who think they know which are which will get it wrong.

Well, PP aren't incorrect in describing it that way

But yes, they should distinguish between the two