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So I saw this thread in Dakka Dakka General Discussions called "I am done with Games-Workshop" so naturally I clicked on it, expecting to see some good-natured discussion of which Space Marine chapter is your favorite, or which primarch would win in a fight. I'm sure you can imagine my dismay when all I found was a bunch of complaining about Orks! But I read on hoping to finally get to some discussion about which chapter master is the kewlest, but 6 pages later still nothing but complaining!
I looked at my Ultramarines sitting sadly in my display case. "Why does the bad man say mean things about GW? Don't you love us?" This made me angry! This slight to my honor cannot go unanswered. I leap into the fray! To the OP:
1. Why do you care so much about winning? Orks are supposed to be a fun army. I'm pretty sure if you care about winning that makes you a WAACTFG. I play for fun. Have fun! No complaining!
2. Try playing against different armies. Afterall it's ultimately the responsibility of the players to make sure the game is balanced. If you're having trouble against Eldar or Tau maybe you should suggest to your opponent that they play pure Deathwing Srrike Force or Legion of the Damned instead so that both of you can enjoy the game.
3. Try making your own rules up. Ultimately it's your responsibility as a GW customer to design your own balanced ruleset to fix the problems with your army and convince your opponent to let you use them.
4. Have you tried using tactics? This can greatly aid you in achieving victory! Use your tactics and you can prevail.
5. If you think Eldar/Tau/SM/Necrons have it so easy maybe you should buy, assemble and paint one of those armies. It's your fault for playing Orks!
6. Maybe you should try another game system. You will not be missed! But whatever you do don't continue to complain about GW because it makes baby Jesus cry. Can't you see this is no good for the community! Leave GW alone!
Reavas wrote: Most of you by my count are a bunch of hypocrites, you complain about leaving and you moan about the codecies and suppliments yet you still use them, and your still here. If you don't like it then you have all the right to bugger off instead of moaning and ruining the community for other people. Although on the other hand the people at my local store have a good laugh at how silly threads like this become, so I guess your good for something.
If you want to make things better then activley do so, complaining does nothing but make the community toxic, and I imagine thanks to you GW think that their main consumer base consists of whiny teenage girls.
Atleast the whiny online community is very differant from those at local stores. If you contribute constructive critisism its great! And I applaud you, don't get me wrong. But those people are not the most vocal of the group
I on the other hand have a good laugh at people having a laugh at people who criticise the rubbish that is 7th edition but don't leave, there are many vialable reasons for staying in spite of the game's sad state.
Btw the game must be considered really good by those guys I guess, some denial lol.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/11 08:46:33
From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.
A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.
angelofvengeance wrote: As has been mentioned a few times here, they are going to great lengths lately to change that.
Rules still gak, prices still stupidly expensive.
Considering rules and prices are the main problems of GW products, and have been for a while, you'll have to be more precise about those "great lenghts", because I don't see them.
Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.
GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get.
If so, how, in Gork's name, do you think Roundtree will know about your magic boycott?
I have been writing letters since GW decided mid edition to turn the power levels up to 11. I wrote more letters after the first Ghaz supplement was released. I wrote even more letters when they re-released the Ghaz Supplement and filled it with a bunch of copy paste from other ork books and the last supplement and then proceeded to explain to us how spending 1,200 pts to give ghaz a 2++ and army wide Fearless is worth it.
And Finally I wrote a last letter to GW after they released this recent trash and told them verbatim that I will be boycotting their company until they can fix the glaring issues in the game and that I will be encouraging others to do so as well.
Now I know a lot of people are going to say "Well who cares what you think, do you think GW gives a feth about you!" and to that I say, I care, and NO I know for a fact that GW will just laugh this off. Losing 1 person who spends maybe $200 a year on this hobby won't bother them at all, but its a step in the right direction. Maybe if more and more people did likewise they would take it a bit more seriously then they currently do.
I fully support you taking this action. If I knew more about the Ork codex, I would do the same, but alas I know next to nothing.
Forget the naysayers - this is exactly how one effects change in a democratic, captialist culture. I doubt you're the only one - X-Wing Armada is the biggest selling game at the moment and that must be scary to GW.
For the record, I still spend lots of money on GW models (and am therefore not boycotting) because I'm primarily a modeller.
I use a lot of house rules when i game, so yes, I must also acknowledge that the rules are gak.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 11:19:40
krodarklorr wrote: To the OP: You know, I'm kind of with you. Earlier this year I went through a phase of wanting to get back into 40k, so much. I loved my 7th edition Necron codex, and wanted to start expanding my collection by a ton. I started painting a lot of my stuff, trying new lists, ext.
Then, of course, my morale starts to fall again. Another supplement for Imperial ponies with more psychic powers they don't need. Eldar and Imperials getting more stuff from Forgeworld, while Necrons remain in 5th edition as far as Forgeworld is concerned (and all of that stuff is pretty bad now. Definitely not worth the price). Tau getting, what, 2 or so supplements? The Ork supplement that was a joke, as well as the Daemon one. I'm still waiting on a Necron supplement.
Then, to further add to it, we have Death from the Skies. Two factions that either A. Have plenty of fliers (Orks) or B. Have really, really good Fliers and formations (Space Marines) both get another model that they'll try to push. Then, you have bloated rules added to a bloated game, at the cost of another 60 bucks.
Then, of course, they finally release an FAQ. Granted, some good came out of it (people can stop whining about Praetorians). But, Ghost Arks are useless and Conclave got an unnecessary nerf.
I'm sorry, but, what's keeping me into this game? Everyone at my store now has 1 or more Imperial Knights, or if their xenos, 2-3 Wraithknights/Stormsurges. We even have a few new people who seemed cool until they dropped Triptide + Doublesurge on the table. Meanwhile, I get to remember the times when I had a GC.
Seriously, though. Every day I grow closer to shelving my models again for awhile. X-wing has proven to be a lot more entertaining.
The 40K experience is primarily based on your opponent pool. If your a GT player, its min/max and face raping. Local meta may have "that guy" or group of guys. Or Moneyhammer. Exploitation/internet/cheese meta. Fluffhammer. You have to find a game that fits your local meta.
@krodarklorr: Come play with us. If someone brought a stupid build the opponent or opponents would be given plenty of heads up. Not to say we have a no cheese zone but your won't have to face it as a "pick up" scenario, i.e. invisible Knights are frowned upon. To that point we have 3 ork players and 2 CSM players that have no problem winning games. Necrons still have strong kung-fu in our meta(undefeated in our escalation league).
Not a lot of internet builds in our club. Tournament style play is for tournaments and glory hounds. There is only war here...
We play X-wing and Armada as well.
To the OP- If your looking for a auto-win button with Orks, your not getting it. Play Mealstrom, use Ghaz, use allies, stop playing WAAC players. Start asking your opponents to let you plus up your army points wise. Find the/a way to fun. Forge your narrative harder. Or don't, GW isn't going to fix it.
Heck, I'd love to find a new gaming group to play with. Even my X-wing group has become more along the lines of too competitive for my tastes.
angelofvengeance wrote: As has been mentioned a few times here, they are going to great lengths lately to change that.
Your definition of great lengths and mine clearly differ, faq's are something they should of been doing all along, as are army starter kits that's just basic stuff other companies do.
Prices on new stuff are still insane and rules still laughable as said above, and roundtrees already said prices Arnt gonna change so there's no reason to think this is the start of things turning around.
To the OP- If your looking for a auto-win button with Orks, your not getting it. Play Mealstrom, use Ghaz, use allies, stop playing WAAC players. Start asking your opponents to let you plus up your army points wise. Find the/a way to fun. Forge your narrative harder. Or don't, GW isn't going to fix it.
I think a lot of players are like this, missing the point entirely. I DO NOT WANT AN EASY WIN BUTTON! What I want is a "Give me a chance" button!!
The fact that you even suggest using Ghaz is hilarious, can you think of another LoW that can die to sweeping advance? For that matter can you think of a single LoW that still swings at Initiative 1 without having a D weapon?
Kinda hard to be swept when you have a 2++ rerollable with FNP and fearless with Graznik and two other warbosses and a luckystick. I can see trying to "help" you is pointless. Just give up the game. Try checkers, its balanced.
Also, thanks for "laughing" at me for trying to help you out. My mistake. Welcome to my block list. Lol. Makes Dakka a better place.
Well for starters, Ghaz NEVER has a 2++ rerollable. It is physically impossible for him to get that, so whomever you play that has this is cheating you. Ghaz can get a 2++ however if you are willing to spend around 1,200 points to give him that save. Your obviously suggesting the Ghazcurion which is laughable at best. I'm sorry that by pointing out how broken the rules are for the Ork army I have offended you. If you already blocked me then ohh well, it was good talking to you.
If this was any kind of competitive fighting game and a character/faction is still low tier even after a sequel, you don't see people giving up the entire game because of balance.
Don't kid yourself. Complaining here isn't going to do jack. You don't want balance, you just want to feel more special as if a company owes you anything about how to handle your own personal satisfaction.
Wow thanks for putting words in my mouth. Here I was thinking I was mad at a company that has taken hundreds if not thousands of my dollars for a game, and instead of providing me with decent rules to play that army with they instead phone it in for the Ork faction. But hey im sure you know what im thinking far better then I do.
As a Side note, I have written several letters and e-mails to GW and I have called once to ask if there was anyway we could talk with the Ork developers in order to understand wtf they are doing. Guess how much good that did?
As far as the point of this thread? Really there isn't one, mostly I was just venting having reached my limit of idiotic ork supplements and codices. So for those handful of people who decided to read all of those posts just to get to the point where they could say "BYE!" To bad for you, as I pointed out in the original post, I am not quitting I am just boycotting GW in the vain hopes that one day they will lose enough customers to understand they need to make a balanced game.
OP- Lucky Stikk. Look it up.
I swear sometimes I feel I'm the only one that actually reads the rules...
I think you can call it the cry of the "entitled".
Many have decades with the GW40k game and massive armies of models.
It sucks when you cannot get "a good game in" and may not have chosen any of the power-creep armies.
If this was any kind of competitive fighting game and a character/faction is still low tier even after a sequel, you don't see people giving up the entire game because of balance.
I believe there is less financial investment in that hobby or to maintain it to be current.
Don't kid yourself. Complaining here isn't going to do jack.
Probably not, but GW is beginning to make changes so you do have to ask where are they looking for ideas?
You don't want balance, you just want to feel more special
I could easily correct that with buying Tau or Eldar... I think there is a bit more motivation than that.
Most people want "balance", games are awesome when factions within them have completely different methods of play and can be a close fight.
as if a company owes you anything about how to handle your own personal satisfaction.
Companies DO owe there customers what they want or they stop buying.
A fairly simple and effective response.
Look at their annual reports: it is harder for them to get dividends so it is hitting their upper management in their wallets and glory-be: they suddenly are making changes.
Companies can ignore their customers at their peril, GW just could do it longer since they had more "fat" to sell off.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: So I saw this thread in Dakka Dakka General Discussions called "I am done with Games-Workshop" so naturally I clicked on it, expecting to see some good-natured discussion of which Space Marine chapter is your favorite, or which primarch would win in a fight. I'm sure you can imagine my dismay when all I found was a bunch of complaining about Orks! But I read on hoping to finally get to some discussion about which chapter master is the kewlest, but 6 pages later still nothing but complaining! I looked at my Ultramarines sitting sadly in my display case. "Why does the bad man say mean things about GW? Don't you love us?" This made me angry! This slight to my honor cannot go unanswered. I leap into the fray! To the OP:!
Not sure if sarcasm, trolling or serious misunderstanding of topic... I too jump into the fray.
1. Why do you care so much about winning? Orks are supposed to be a fun army. I'm pretty sure if you care about winning that makes you a WAACTFG. I play for fun. Have fun! No complaining!
Oh yes, fun! I love losing! 10 games straight in a row!
I challenge myself on how to lose in the most fun way possible!
To choose to play less competitive is fine, but still managing some wins are part of the point in war-game.
2. Try playing against different armies. Afterall it's ultimately the responsibility of the players to make sure the game is balanced. If you're having trouble against Eldar or Tau maybe you should suggest to your opponent that they play pure Deathwing Srrike Force or Legion of the Damned instead so that both of you can enjoy the game.
Or they can turn around and "suggest" you play something better?
I am sure each of you have a few extra hundred dollars lying around to buy an army that sucks.... er, "has character".
3. Try making your own rules up. Ultimately it's your responsibility as a GW customer to design your own balanced ruleset to fix the problems with your army and convince your opponent to let you use them.
I believe that is the "lets roll-off" method: you can "mis-remember" any rule you want, disagree with your opponent and then have a 50-50 chance of using that rule!
Brilliant!
Yes, not only forge the narrative but forge the rules as well.
I am a gamer, not a blacksmith Jim!
4. Have you tried using tactics? This can greatly aid you in achieving victory! Use your tactics and you can prevail.
But chance is a cruel mistress.
Very little tactics survive the unrelenting avalanche of dice rolls.
Heck, my generals and psychers have no clue what knowledge or skills they have until the day of battle.
I love planning my tactics around complete unknowns.
5. If you think Eldar/Tau/SM/Necrons have it so easy maybe you should buy, assemble and paint one of those armies. It's your fault for playing Orks!
But it can be so much fun to have your codex updated to suck though!
Plus I think that comment of finding spare cash lying around to get the flavor of the month army can be problematic.
6. Maybe you should try another game system. You will not be missed! But whatever you do don't continue to complain about GW because it makes baby Jesus cry. Can't you see this is no good for the community! Leave GW alone!
GW does no research so they cannot be blamed for their ignorance!
We have no right to complain because the world can go wrong anywhere at any moment... that is life.
BUT in the faint hope of irritating others in power to change we will continue to whine as strongly as possible to fight for our rights as consumers.
That was rather fun...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 12:59:36
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
1. Why do you care so much about winning? Orks are supposed to be a fun army. I'm pretty sure if you care about winning that makes you a WAACTFG. I play for fun. Have fun! No complaining!
No arguments here, except that they should also stand a hope in hells chance against other armies.
2. Try playing against different armies. Afterall it's ultimately the responsibility of the players to make sure the game is balanced. If you're having trouble against Eldar or Tau maybe you should suggest to your opponent that they play pure Deathwing Srrike Force or Legion of the Damned instead so that both of you can enjoy the game.
If the OP is in a similar meta to mine that may be an issue.
3. Try making your own rules up. Ultimately it's your responsibility as a GW customer to design your own balanced ruleset to fix the problems with your army and convince your opponent to let you use them.
I have to say, this is the best idea I have heard in a long time.
4. Have you tried using tactics? This can greatly aid you in achieving victory! Use your tactics and you can prevail.
As a Guard player I can say that, at best, this is hit and miss against the Eldar/Tau/SpaceMarine/Necron overlords.
5. If you think Eldar/Tau/SM/Necrons have it so easy maybe you should buy, assemble and paint one of those armies. It's your fault for playing Orks!
Oh if only it was so easy as that. Dropping £500+ worth of investment for another £300+ is not fun. But do not worry, your valuable contribution to GW will ensure that they can afford to release their next supplement: Superfriends plotinium alliance, which will feature major buffs for the top four codexes as well as special formations that let you pass all rolls on a rerollable 2+.
6. Maybe you should try another game system.
Best idea.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
It seems to me that the whole "codex" model of the game is what causes the problems.
Instead of releasing rules, then putting out new codices for those rules over a long period of time (which causes inevitable power creep), just make the rule book contain everything.
Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
Or release the rules in one go, after writing them in tandem.
Unfortunatley, GW's market policy makes this impossible as they are only able to survive by using money grabs to get them through the quarter. If everyone on Dakka refrained from buying GW stuff for a full month, someone would notice.
Griddlelol wrote: It seems to me that the whole "codex" model of the game is what causes the problems.
Instead of releasing rules, then putting out new codices for those rules over a long period of time (which causes inevitable power creep), just make the rule book contain everything.
There is a good reason not to have it all in the rule book, space. Ideally a codex like book is so you can place rules and information more specific to that army/race.
Other games do it just fine, 40k can also.
The issues GW face is multilayered and built up over years now, the big issues is they never really improoved upon what they had and sorta just added to it. Now the game is bursting with issues and they are just adding along to it like they always have.
GW release new edition of rules to often, and take to long to update there codexes before they redo the rules. It's little wonder they don't seem to understand what's going on, there design is way outta there. It's hard to even follow what kind of games they are playing with how some army's seem to get updates.
To the OP- If your looking for a auto-win button with Orks, your not getting it. Play Mealstrom, use Ghaz, use allies, stop playing WAAC players. Start asking your opponents to let you plus up your army points wise. Find the/a way to fun. Forge your narrative harder. Or don't, GW isn't going to fix it.
I think a lot of players are like this, missing the point entirely. I DO NOT WANT AN EASY WIN BUTTON! What I want is a "Give me a chance" button!!
The fact that you even suggest using Ghaz is hilarious, can you think of another LoW that can die to sweeping advance? For that matter can you think of a single LoW that still swings at Initiative 1 without having a D weapon?
Kinda hard to be swept when you have a 2++ rerollable with FNP and fearless with Graznik and two other warbosses and a luckystick. I can see trying to "help" you is pointless. Just give up the game. Try checkers, its balanced.
Also, thanks for "laughing" at me for trying to help you out. My mistake. Welcome to my block list. Lol. Makes Dakka a better place.
Well for starters, Ghaz NEVER has a 2++ rerollable. It is physically impossible for him to get that, so whomever you play that has this is cheating you. Ghaz can get a 2++ however if you are willing to spend around 1,200 points to give him that save. Your obviously suggesting the Ghazcurion which is laughable at best. I'm sorry that by pointing out how broken the rules are for the Ork army I have offended you. If you already blocked me then ohh well, it was good talking to you.
If this was any kind of competitive fighting game and a character/faction is still low tier even after a sequel, you don't see people giving up the entire game because of balance.
Don't kid yourself. Complaining here isn't going to do jack. You don't want balance, you just want to feel more special as if a company owes you anything about how to handle your own personal satisfaction.
Wow thanks for putting words in my mouth. Here I was thinking I was mad at a company that has taken hundreds if not thousands of my dollars for a game, and instead of providing me with decent rules to play that army with they instead phone it in for the Ork faction. But hey im sure you know what im thinking far better then I do.
As a Side note, I have written several letters and e-mails to GW and I have called once to ask if there was anyway we could talk with the Ork developers in order to understand wtf they are doing. Guess how much good that did?
As far as the point of this thread? Really there isn't one, mostly I was just venting having reached my limit of idiotic ork supplements and codices. So for those handful of people who decided to read all of those posts just to get to the point where they could say "BYE!" To bad for you, as I pointed out in the original post, I am not quitting I am just boycotting GW in the vain hopes that one day they will lose enough customers to understand they need to make a balanced game.
OP- Lucky Stikk. Look it up.
I swear sometimes I feel I'm the only one that actually reads the rules...
OMG!!!! I Can't believe I forgot about the LUCKY STICK! wow I am so stupid, if Only I had known about that item on ghaz he would totally be amazing.......ohh wait, he isn't allowed to take that item because he doesn't have access to Ork Relics. So if your an ork player and have been doing that you are cheating.
I swear sometimes I feel I'm the only one that actually reads the rules...
Are you suggesting that you give Ghaz the Lucky Stikk?
Really dude, the internet is hopeless... WAAAGH Council: Give it to one of the Warbosses in Mega armour or the big mek in MA.
And that warboss or Big Mek has a 2+ rerollable, NOT a 2++ rerollable, and doesn't benefit ghaz at all except to give him +1 WS
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also
This is what I said
The fact that you even suggest using Ghaz is hilarious, can you think of another LoW that can die to sweeping advance? For that matter can you think of a single LoW that still swings at Initiative 1 without having a D weapon?
This is what you said Byte
Kinda hard to be swept when you have a 2++ rerollable with FNP and fearless with Graznik and two other warbosses and a luckystick. I can see trying to "help" you is pointless. Just give up the game. Try checkers, its balanced.
Then I pointed out Ghaz never has a 2++ rerollable and you said he can have a 2++ rerollable with DLS. Then I showed you that your wrong and here we are
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ohh and a side note, Its Grotsnik not Graznik.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/11 17:02:41
I truly cannot understand what these venting threads are supposed to achieve. Is it just to make everyone notice you're quitting or some sort of therapeutical engagement?
Neither can I fathom what people think complaining about the game (especially if you've quit ages ago/don't even play) will actually do, aside from create negative content no one enjoying the game is interested in to read in it's own subforum.
GW is currently doing massive leaps in order to improve many things as we have concretically seen, and recovering from a Kirby led age of bad decisions. They are also currently communicating, so why not communicate your shortcomings to them directly instead, since then, you know, you might actually affect something.
I swear sometimes I feel I'm the only one that actually reads the rules...
Are you suggesting that you give Ghaz the Lucky Stikk?
Really dude, the internet is hopeless...
WAAAGH Council: Give it to one of the Warbosses in Mega armour or the big mek in MA.
And that warboss or Big Mek has a 2+ rerollable, NOT a 2++ rerollable, and doesn't benefit ghaz at all except to give him +1 WS
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also
This is what I said
The fact that you even suggest using Ghaz is hilarious, can you think of another LoW that can die to sweeping advance? For that matter can you think of a single LoW that still swings at Initiative 1 without having a D weapon?
This is what you said Byte
Kinda hard to be swept when you have a 2++ rerollable with FNP and fearless with Graznik and two other warbosses and a luckystick. I can see trying to "help" you is pointless. Just give up the game. Try checkers, its balanced.
Then I pointed out Ghaz never has a 2++ rerollable and you said he can have a 2++ rerollable with DLS. Then I showed you that your wrong and here we are
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ohh and a side note, Its Grotsnik not Graznik.
Just do yourself a favor and quit. You really dont come across as someone pleasant to play anyways. I imagine a lot of pouting and fit throwing.
Nothing says the DLS doesn't/can't affect the squad. It says saves "they" make. Not "he, the bearer, the model" makes. So until GW decides to clarify (like grenades and bombs in CC). It should be played RAW. But, since your done. Should'nt be a concern for you.
Runic wrote: I truly cannot understand what these venting threads are supposed to achieve. Is it just to make everyone notice you're quitting or some sort of therapeutical engagement?
Neither can I fathom what people think complaining about the game (especially if you've quit ages ago/don't even play) will actually do, aside from create negative content no one enjoying the game is interested in to read in it's own subforum.
GW is currently doing massive leaps in order to improve many things as we have concretically seen, and recovering from a Kirby led age of bad decisions. They are also currently communicating, so why not communicate your shortcomings to them directly instead, since then, you know, you might actually affect something.
What it does do is see if there are other people of like mind in the community, possibly starting a general boycott movement that will force GW to either engage in actual change to the current company policy or lose business to the point where it affects them.
As far as your comment that they are making "massive leaps in order to improve many things" well no they aren't. They released a FAQ they used to do this fairly regularly, its been years since they did it. So they are just going back to the previous status quo. And the other things they are doing? like releasing Get started boxes? Most games do that already, and the units they include are usually the worst sellers for that army, Case and point is the Ork get started box which contains a deff dread and nobz, two of the worst units in our codex.
GW needs to fix the basic rules, they need to fix the prices of their models, they need to balance the entire game out. Until that is done, they aren't doing anything massive or improving anything.
Just do yourself a favor and quit. You really dont come across as someone pleasant to play anyways. I imagine a lot of pouting and fit throwing.
Nothing says the DLS doesn't/can't affect the squad. It says saves "they" make. Not "he, the bearer, the model" makes. So until GW decides to clarify (like grenades and bombs in CC). It should be played RAW. But, since your done. Should'nt be a concern for you.
Well for starters I am not done with the game which i have said multiple times, which apparently you can't understand.
As far as DLS is concerned you are cheating blatantly. And it isn't RaW. it is however you cheating your opponent.
"In addition, the BEARER can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that they make." it sure as hell doesn't say his unit can, and it literally says THE BEARER.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 17:29:14
Runic wrote: I truly cannot understand what these venting threads are supposed to achieve. Is it just to make everyone notice you're quitting or some sort of therapeutical engagement?
Neither can I fathom what people think complaining about the game (especially if you've quit ages ago/don't even play) will actually do, aside from create negative content no one enjoying the game is interested in to read in it's own subforum.
GW is currently doing massive leaps in order to improve many things as we have concretically seen, and recovering from a Kirby led age of bad decisions. They are also currently communicating, so why not communicate your shortcomings to them directly instead, since then, you know, you might actually affect something.
What it does do is see if there are other people of like mind in the community, possibly starting a general boycott movement that will force GW to either engage in actual change to the current company policy or lose business to the point where it affects them.
As far as your comment that they are making "massive leaps in order to improve many things" well no they aren't. They released a FAQ they used to do this fairly regularly, its been years since they did it. So they are just going back to the previous status quo. And the other things they are doing? like releasing Get started boxes? Most games do that already, and the units they include are usually the worst sellers for that army, Case and point is the Ork get started box which contains a deff dread and nobz, two of the worst units in our codex.
GW needs to fix the basic rules, they need to fix the prices of their models, they need to balance the entire game out. Until that is done, they aren't doing anything massive or improving anything.
Finding other miserable "like minded" people on the internet means less than nothing... have you ever read the FB comments on the Fox News page, or Youtube comments on any video with a woman in it?
The fact that the mods here pretty much encourage these kind of threads is only reason I'll never give a dime to dakka.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 18:30:52
I truly cannot understand what these venting posts are supposed to achieve. Is it just to make everyone notice you dislike anything negative being said about GW or some sort of baseless whining about threads you happen to dislike?
Neither can I fathom what people think complaining about complaining (especially if you don't even read the OP or thread) will actually do, aside from create negative content no one enjoying the forum is interested in to read in its own thread.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
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SemperMortis wrote: What it does do is see if there are other people of like mind in the community, possibly starting a general boycott movement that will force GW to either engage in actual change to the current company policy or lose business to the point where it affects them.
They have already clearly changed their policies and are changing things up.
SemperMortis wrote: As far as your comment that they are making "massive leaps in order to improve many things" well no they aren't.
They are. They have:
-Introduced new starter sets for new hobbyists to get into the hobby easier
-Introduced new starter painting sets for new hobbyists to get into the hobby easier
-Introducing a competitive rules system for Age of Sigmar, directly because of demand
-Reinstated Specialist Games
-Started content feeds on social media
-Restarted FAQ:s for their games and even drafting them
-Reopened communications with the community
-Changed the problematic Codex model into the more fluid Campaign model
-Circumvented direct downpricing of miniatures by selling things like Imperial Knight Renegade, which in practice is simply a way to sell miniatures at a discount
SemperMortis wrote: They released a FAQ they used to do this fairly regularly, its been years since they did it. So they are just going back to the previous status quo. And the other things they are doing? like releasing Get started boxes? Most games do that already,
So if something has been done before, and stopped inbetween, and is now being returned to you don't consider that change? That's the very definition of change by any stretch of logic imaginable.
SemperMortis wrote: GW needs to fix the basic rules, they need to fix the prices of their models, they need to balance the entire game out. Until that is done, they aren't doing anything massive or improving anything.
I agree that these things need to be done. However doing all that in this small of a time period with the new CEO and their new winds is simply impossible, and everyone who is a realist knows that. It is clear however they aim to atleast some of this (a new revised rulebook is coming out, and the FAQs are a clear indication.)
What I got from this is they aren't doing enough for you. However, it doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing big changes, all of them something people have been asking for a long time and with a speed that seems quite fast for content of this size on a practical level. It is obvious that not everyone can truly understand the amount of people, time and resources required to make things a reality. I wish it was so, but judging by some demands it clearly isn't.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/11 17:40:17
Runic wrote: I truly cannot understand what these venting threads are supposed to achieve. Is it just to make everyone notice you're quitting or some sort of therapeutical engagement?
Neither can I fathom what people think complaining about the game (especially if you've quit ages ago/don't even play) will actually do, aside from create negative content no one enjoying the game is interested in to read in it's own subforum.
GW is currently doing massive leaps in order to improve many things as we have concretically seen, and recovering from a Kirby led age of bad decisions. They are also currently communicating, so why not communicate your shortcomings to them directly instead, since then, you know, you might actually affect something.
What it does do is see if there are other people of like mind in the community, possibly starting a general boycott movement that will force GW to either engage in actual change to the current company policy or lose business to the point where it affects them.
As far as your comment that they are making "massive leaps in order to improve many things" well no they aren't. They released a FAQ they used to do this fairly regularly, its been years since they did it. So they are just going back to the previous status quo. And the other things they are doing? like releasing Get started boxes? Most games do that already, and the units they include are usually the worst sellers for that army, Case and point is the Ork get started box which contains a deff dread and nobz, two of the worst units in our codex.
GW needs to fix the basic rules, they need to fix the prices of their models, they need to balance the entire game out. Until that is done, they aren't doing anything massive or improving anything.
Just do yourself a favor and quit. You really dont come across as someone pleasant to play anyways. I imagine a lot of pouting and fit throwing.
Nothing says the DLS doesn't/can't affect the squad. It says saves "they" make. Not "he, the bearer, the model" makes. So until GW decides to clarify (like grenades and bombs in CC). It should be played RAW. But, since your done. Should'nt be a concern for you.
Well for starters I am not done with the game which i have said multiple times, which apparently you can't understand.
As far as DLS is concerned you are cheating blatantly. And it isn't RaW. it is however you cheating your opponent.
"In addition, the BEARER can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that they make." it sure as hell doesn't say his unit can, and it literally says THE BEARER.
"In addition, the BEARER can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that they make."
So it should read, "In addition, the BEARER can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that he/the model makes." It doesn't.
-Introduced new starter sets for new hobbyists to get into the hobby easier
They have been doing this for years, they just called it by a different name an it wasn't as effective. BlackReach and that nonsense are New User sets.
-Introduced new starter painting sets for new hobbyists to get into the hobby easier
They have released painting sets forever, simply by putting "new starter" in front of it doesn't make it new, it just means they have a "New" label.
-Introducing a competitive rules system for Age of Sigmar, directly because of demand
Not a single person I know of wanted AoS, most dislike it and it has caused a rather big problem for most Fantasy communities. (That what I gather from my Fantasy friends and Dakkas fantasy players)
-Reinstated Specialist Games
They never stopped doing this to my knowledge
-Started content feeds on social media
So they caught up to current tech, that is supposed to be a change? They also started using the internet to about 2 decades ago.
-Restarted FAQ:s for their games and even drafting them
This they have done, but realistically they should never have stopped. That whole BS about them being a modelling company and not a gaming company really agitated me.
-Reopened communications with the community
We have yet to see how true this is, by asking our opinion that does not mean they are actually listening. It is very easy to open up a facebook page and then just simply ignore it.
-Changed the problematic Codex model into the more fluid Campaign model
False, horribly utterly false. I don't know that many people who want to do away with codex's and switch to campaign's instead.
-Circumvented direct downpricing of miniatures by selling things like Imperial Knight Renegade, which in practice is simply a way to sell miniatures at a discount
They have been doing bundles forever, this doesn't make it any better though. Usually they lump in something you don't want or they only reduce the price by 5%
So it should read, "In addition, the BEARER can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that he/the model makes." It doesn't.
That is such a horrible interpretation of the English language that it is laughable. You actually accused me earlier of being a WAAC/TFG player....and your the one that is turning a well written rule inside out to make it look like it benefits the entire unit when it is clearly intended (and written as such) to only benefit the wielder.
Something something Glass houses.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 17:59:18
SemperMortis wrote: What it does do is see if there are other people of like mind in the community, possibly starting a general boycott movement that will force GW to either engage in actual change to the current company policy or lose business to the point where it affects them.
They have already clearly changed their policies and are changing things up.
SemperMortis wrote: As far as your comment that they are making "massive leaps in order to improve many things" well no they aren't.
They are. They have:
-Introduced new starter sets for new hobbyists to get into the hobby easier
-Introduced new starter painting sets for new hobbyists to get into the hobby easier
-Introducing a competitive rules system for Age of Sigmar, directly because of demand
-Reinstated Specialist Games
-Started content feeds on social media
-Restarted FAQ:s for their games and even drafting them
-Reopened communications with the community
-Changed the problematic Codex model into the more fluid Campaign model
-Circumvented direct downpricing of miniatures by selling things like Imperial Knight Renegade, which in practice is simply a way to sell miniatures at a discount
SemperMortis wrote: They released a FAQ they used to do this fairly regularly, its been years since they did it. So they are just going back to the previous status quo. And the other things they are doing? like releasing Get started boxes? Most games do that already,
So if something has been done before, and stopped inbetween, and is now being returned to you don't consider that change? That's the very definition of change by any stretch of logic imaginable.
SemperMortis wrote: GW needs to fix the basic rules, they need to fix the prices of their models, they need to balance the entire game out. Until that is done, they aren't doing anything massive or improving anything.
I agree that these things need to be done. However doing all that in this small of a time period with the new CEO and their new winds is simply impossible, and everyone who is a realist knows that. It is clear however they aim to atleast some of this (a new revised rulebook is coming out, and the FAQs are a clear indication.)
What I got from this is they aren't doing enough for you. However, it doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing big changes, all of them something people have been asking for a long time and with a speed that seems quite fast for content of this size on a practical level. It is obvious that not everyone can truly understand the amount of people, time and resources required to make things a reality. I wish it was so, but judging by some demands it clearly isn't.
Runic, this is the feeling I got as well. Until GW hand delivers a good Ork codex free of charge and a check for all the models he bought, Semper will never be happy.
Runic wrote: I truly cannot understand what these venting threads are supposed to achieve. Is it just to make everyone notice you're quitting or some sort of therapeutical engagement?
Neither can I fathom what people think complaining about the game (especially if you've quit ages ago/don't even play) will actually do, aside from create negative content no one enjoying the game is interested in to read in it's own subforum.
GW is currently doing massive leaps in order to improve many things as we have concretically seen, and recovering from a Kirby led age of bad decisions. They are also currently communicating, so why not communicate your shortcomings to them directly instead, since then, you know, you might actually affect something.
What it does do is see if there are other people of like mind in the community, possibly starting a general boycott movement that will force GW to either engage in actual change to the current company policy or lose business to the point where it affects them.
As far as your comment that they are making "massive leaps in order to improve many things" well no they aren't. They released a FAQ they used to do this fairly regularly, its been years since they did it. So they are just going back to the previous status quo. And the other things they are doing? like releasing Get started boxes? Most games do that already, and the units they include are usually the worst sellers for that army, Case and point is the Ork get started box which contains a deff dread and nobz, two of the worst units in our codex.
GW needs to fix the basic rules, they need to fix the prices of their models, they need to balance the entire game out. Until that is done, they aren't doing anything massive or improving anything.
Just do yourself a favor and quit. You really dont come across as someone pleasant to play anyways. I imagine a lot of pouting and fit throwing.
Nothing says the DLS doesn't/can't affect the squad. It says saves "they" make. Not "he, the bearer, the model" makes. So until GW decides to clarify (like grenades and bombs in CC). It should be played RAW. But, since your done. Should'nt be a concern for you.
Well for starters I am not done with the game which i have said multiple times, which apparently you can't understand.
As far as DLS is concerned you are cheating blatantly. And it isn't RaW. it is however you cheating your opponent.
"In addition, the BEARER can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that they make." it sure as hell doesn't say his unit can, and it literally says THE BEARER.
"In addition, the BEARER can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that they make."
So it should read, "In addition, the BEARER can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that he/the model makes." It doesn't.
Byte, you're grasping at straws. That is absolutely not RAI and if you tried to play that, most people would laugh at you/refuse to play that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 18:01:20
Legion: Dark Angels 
I have to say, this is the best idea I have heard in a long time.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
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