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 Hanskrampf wrote:
I hate microtransactions. They are bad enough in video games, no need to bring them to board games.
Also: you purchase the game, you purchase the app ("You can buy the My Hero app at the Apple App Store and Google Play") and then also need to buy rules for hero models you bought seperately, already for a premium price?
I really hope it's not as bad as it sounds right now, because if it is, I hope GW fails miserably with this approach.

It's a fething company store is what it is.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I don't think so. Most games that use microtransactions at least give you the core game for free...

So that makes this... better?

They could easily make this an exploitative pricing method, which would not make them many friends. That said, I'd expect it more along the lines of how the battalion/time of war rules work in the AoS app where they are bundled into 'battle packs'. These are $8-25ish USD depending on the size and have 5-20ish rule scrolls in them, or if you want just one of those you can buy them individually for $2. Even for GW I don't see them offering skill/hero rules individually as the main option (rather as a side-option if you don't want the whole budle). At any rate, I doubt people are going to force you to own the content in question anyway, so if you know the rule you're good to go.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I don't think so. Most games that use microtransactions at least give you the core game for free...

So that makes this... better?

Not at all. I was saying it's worse. But then again I'm an old school dead tree format grognard, so maybe the kids like this format for some reason and GW is trying to appeal to them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hold the phone:

... and contains an in-app store through which you can purchase new skills, treasure and hero cards...

Umm... did GW just release a freemium tabletop game?

It's more like a "fee to pay" game, since you need to buy the base game and the minis to start play.

I don't have a problem with electronic expansions. I do have a problem with the concept of buying individual skills and treasure items.

Electronic versions of the old Treasure Card packs? No problem. Good way to move product without taking up space with inventory - perhaps even a better randomiser as well, with allowances for duplicates without needing to buy multiple sets of cards - but buying individual items, like buying skills, that's not right.

I mean take this as a (flawed) example:



Obviously this is the AoS Warscroll, but pretend for a second this is the nuQuest profile for this guy. You buy this character (after buying the app), and he has his warblade and basic profile. Then it says "For $0.99 add his Sigmarine Shield". Then it says "For $1.99 add Heroic Challenge" and "For $1.59 add Thundercharge Strike".

NOPE!

That gak ain't gon' fly. You don't get people to buy individual rules and items in your tabletop wargame.



I really better be wrong about all this.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't have a problem with electronic expansions. I do have a problem with the concept of buying individual skills and treasure items.

Electronic versions of the old Treasure Card packs? No problem. Good way to move product without taking up space with inventory - perhaps even a better randomiser as well, with allowances for duplicates without needing to buy multiple sets of cards - but buying individual items, like buying skills, that's not right.

Going with the card packs example, I would expect it to be like "Treasure Card Pack 1 - $9.99" with the alternative option to buy just a specific card individually for $0.50, obviously the latter isn't the intended method but since it's digital they can put that option in there for those who want it.

Sidenote: If you are right your rage is justified, imo...

IMO, the way it reads is that the ability to "purchase skills" is when you're making your own characters and you want to add skills that are present on other characters without owning them.

To use your example, you make a hero called Dave. Dave has a 3+ save and a Davidium Halberd. You want to give him the Thundercharged Strike skill from the Knight-Questor, but you don't own the Knight-Questor rules on the app.

You then have the choice between purchasing just the skill or the Knight-Questor.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And again, once they're out in the wild, why would I need to pay for them? Couldn't I just say that my Dwyvyn Fyrslyr has the skill, and write it down myself? Why am I paying actual money to add a rule to a unit?

Paying money for individual rules? Are you kidding me? This needs expanding upon, because this sounds like the worst kind of exploititive microtransaction bull gak I've ever heard.

I mean, if you bought an online Space Wolf Codex that then asked you to pay extra money before it added the Long Fang unit to the Codex, and more money for each Heavy Weapon choice, for a table top game, would you stand for it?

since it's your boardgame of course you can give whatever you want whatever skill you want, either inventing your own or using ones GW has revealed

but that takes time and effort and plenty of folk will be happy enough to pay to have GW do it for them (I suspect personally I won't, but there you go)

just because its (so far) meant to be digital only doesn't mean stuff has to be free, would you expect a new spacewolves codex which was mainly a copy paste of the old one with a few new units and the odd stat change to be free? I certainly wouldn't

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
just because its (so far) meant to be digital only doesn't mean stuff has to be free, would you expect a new spacewolves codex which was mainly a copy paste of the old one with a few new units and the odd stat change to be free? I certainly wouldn't

But I would expect that if I bought that Codex, it would be complete, and that I wouldn't need to purchase rules/weapons/relics/psychic powers/units once I bought the Codex.

So playing 40k you only ever need one codex....right?

While there is certainly cause for concern, it is a little early to form a lynch mob and head down to GW hq. We still don't know how much stuff is included in the base game. There are apparently rules in the base game for more than just the six heroes with minis. How many exactly we don't know yet. How do the skills work and how easy are they to make up for yourself? We don't know that yet either. How different are the rules in the game and the rules on the warscrolls. It is possible that you could use those as a basis for adaption and they are all free.

There was a rumour that you would be able to scan qr codes on future minis. So you buy the miniatures, scan the code and get the rules for free, or alternatively pay for the rules on the app.

Is the base game even good and worth the extra investment?

We don't know any of those things yet. From Friday people will be trying the game. On Saturday there will be warhammer fest which would be a good chance to ask attendees to ask apropriate questions and raise appropriate concerns. It will be an interesting test of the new listening GW if things are initially overpriced. The total war guys did back down over the chaos dlc after all.

It feels like any dungeon crawl game so far, you get base game, and then can buy "character expansions" like descent if you want.

Thats how it feels to me, except we already own a bunch of the "character expansions" due to AOS models.

So vs paying 25-30 bucks an expansion, youd buy the "warscroll" for a few bucks and add onto base game.

 zfreie wrote:
So playing 40k you only ever need one codex....right?

You genuinely don't understand what I'm saying, do you?

Original Warhammer Quest used the same model, did it not? The only difference was that then, you bought the miniature and all the rules in one box. Now you buy the miniature and then buy the rules separately.

H.B.M.C., you seem to be reading it as if you need to pay to download data into the app that you already have in the rulebook, whereas I'm reading it as you're buying new data that's not in the rules. Without seeing how this all works, though, I'm not totally sure.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Original Warhammer Quest used the same model, did it not? The only difference was that then, you bought the miniature and all the rules in one box. Now you buy the miniature and then buy the rules separately.

OG Quest you bought character packs. The pack had the mini, a rulebook for the mini, plus all the associated cards/tokens that went with the mini. With that description of the app, you would buy the character pack, and then have to buy additional skills/items, rather than all the skills being part of the character pack.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
just because its (so far) meant to be digital only doesn't mean stuff has to be free, would you expect a new spacewolves codex which was mainly a copy paste of the old one with a few new units and the odd stat change to be free? I certainly wouldn't

But I would expect that if I bought that Codex, it would be complete, and that I wouldn't need to purchase rules/weapons/relics/psychic powers/units once I bought the Codex.

we all know thats not true


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Original Warhammer Quest used the same model, did it not? The only difference was that then, you bought the miniature and all the rules in one box. Now you buy the miniature and then buy the rules separately.

OG Quest you bought character packs. The pack had the mini, a rulebook for the mini, plus all the associated cards/tokens that went with the mini. With that description of the app, you would buy the character pack, and then have to buy additional skills/items, rather than all the skills being part of the character pack.

TBH i dont know how you came to this conclusion - pay for skills. If its like aos, you pay for the whole package.

Sounds like another GW board game which people will open up and just throw away the rules.

Sorry to ask and I don't know if it's answered already, but do we know if this is limited?

 avedominusnox wrote:
Sorry to ask and I don't know if it's answered already, but do we know if this is limited?

Likely limited in the same way 30k, Deathwatch and Renegade are, that is, not at all really.

sadysaneto wrote:
TBH i dont know how you came to this conclusion - pay for skills. If its like aos, you pay for the whole package.

Really? You have no idea how I might have inferred that meaning from the text?
Well here it is again, just to be clear, right from WD:

... and contains an in-app store through which you can purchase new skills, treasure and hero cards...

Can't really be any clearer than that.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, so let me get this straight. Supposedly ALL AOS models will have rules to run in this.
So If I wanted too. We could get my Bloodbound, and my friends Stormcast. and have an adeventure where the bloodbound have to slaughter their way through a Stormcast eternal stronghold. Eventually killing the Celestant Prime?

Or just do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XCQxkKgbTI&list=PLzrPO7KIAtwVmZzJKCs4kmvZAJLs_Ltb_&index=1

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:
Sorry to ask and I don't know if it's answered already, but do we know if this is limited?

Likely limited in the same way 30k, Deathwatch and Renegade are, that is, not at all really.

sadysaneto wrote:
TBH i dont know how you came to this conclusion - pay for skills. If its like aos, you pay for the whole package.

Really? You have no idea how I might have inferred that meaning from the text?
Well here it is again, just to be clear, right from WD:

... and contains an in-app store through which you can purchase new skills, treasure and hero cards...

Can't really be any clearer than that.

well, by "new", you might have inferred... new? like, it comes with all the basic skills, than it may have new skills to sell?

I take you are not that familiar with dungeon crawlers, but, yeah..... they all do that. They all sell expansions with new skills, new weapons, etc.

Subscribed.

Yeah I think they are referring to skills, treasure, etc. That is developed after the release (no doubt with a token offering at launch though...). Its more like you already have the hero (because they are just the clampacks already available) and then pay (hopefully) a few bucks for the rules to use him in the new game.

 Kirasu wrote:
Sounds like another GW board game which people will open up and just throw away the rules.

I dunno what makes you think that, a lot of people seem excited for Warhammer Quest being back to me.

The logical fallacy in this is that GW must believe people actually own AoS models in order to buy rules for :p They'd be better served by making the rules free and having people buy the models they like..

sadysaneto wrote:
I take you are not that familiar with dungeon crawlers, but, yeah..... they all do that. They all sell expansions with new skills, new weapons, etc.

*stares blankly*

You have got to be kidding me?

well, by "new", you might have inferred... new? like, it comes with all the basic skills, than it may have new skills to sell?

I take you are not that familiar with dungeon crawlers, but, yeah..... they all do that. They all sell expansions with new skills, new weapons, etc.

Yeah except one clampack hero from GW is the same price as an entire descent expansion.

Apologies; I wrote a long reply and then realised I'd misinterpreted the post I was replying to.

The smart play would be to let you unlock the rules for free on the app when you purchase a new clam pack. It is well known that they are extremely expensive, this would be something of a value add to offset the huge prices somewhat. The sentence that H.B.M.C is so (justifiably) worried about does seem to refer to the create a hero section of the app. So if you want to have a questor with a bow or magic abilities or you want to create your own original archetype you can buy skills for that, possibly.

This app has the the potential to either be something really cool that extends the life of the game considerably, or a heinous rip off that drives people away from the game. I suppose it is human nature to expect the latter, but I am still hoping for the former.

I'm not paying extra to use models I already own with little mini purchases in an app. If that's their plan, I'll be skipping WHQ. Now it's back to wait & see mode for me...