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Binabik15 wrote:
AoS has special rules on everyone and his pony (that you may or may not have to ride around and talk to to get boni). Many, probably most, are unique to boot. Just because it is light on core mechanics thst doesn't make it streamlined.

To be fair, the core AOS mechanics would make for a good game if not for the wildly inconsistent mismash of special rules on the units.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Binabik15 wrote:
AoS has special rules on everyone and his pony (that you may or may not have to ride around and talk to to get boni). Many, probably most, are unique to boot. Just because it is light on core mechanics thst doesn't make it streamlined.

To be fair, the core AOS mechanics would make for a good game if not for the wildly inconsistent mismash of special rules on the units.

This. The core rules were fine, just add some points to everything and get rid of some of the special rules that were a little too powerful/dumb.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Points don't matter. They really, really, really don't. All the garbage players are the ones who whined and whined about "No points means it's going to be anarchy!"

"Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong, and also literally garbage."

Come on Kan, you're not even trying these days, your deliberate bear-poking used to be so much more subtle.

Points mattered to me and seemingly a lot of people given GW are poised to bring them back in AoS.

I would be very concerned if they tried to make 40k into a ruleset that is say 6 pages.

With that said I think overhaul is needed. The balance between the good armies (Eldar, Necrons, Tau, Space Marines) and the bad armies (Dark Eldar, Orks, CSM, Tyranids) has never seemed greater. Its one thing when tournament lists crush fluffy lists but this seems overwhelming. Its no fun being on the other end of a turkey shoot.

SOoo... What about the statements from GW that 7th would be sticking around for a long time?

Or did everyone forget about all that?

Could I just point out that so far the only people to use either the words "New" or "Edition" are journalists looking for a "scoop"?

GW is releasing new editions every 2 years now in an attempt to keep their declining sales up. This is a likely rumor. I just hope they don't AOS-ify it.

Tyel wrote:
Points mattered to me and seemingly a lot of people given GW are poised to bring them back in AoS.

Yeah, and I bet those people never once bothered to even try playing without points. I've played far, far, far more Age of Sigmar than 40k of late--and the only time I've ever had issues with games are when it's the local players who purposely go out of their way to try and make broken lists to prove their (no pun intended) point about how "no points=so open to abusive powergaming" or some such nonsense.

It's really quite adorable, since they were powergaming with points and play broken lists in 40k too. So excuse me, but I'd rather people actually stop whining about how "No points was awful!" when really what was happening is they were trying to say "I don't know how to build an army without points to know what's best!".

With that said I think overhaul is needed. The balance between the good armies (Eldar, Necrons, Tau, Space Marines) and the bad armies (Dark Eldar, Orks, CSM, Tyranids) has never seemed greater. Its one thing when tournament lists crush fluffy lists but this seems overwhelming. Its no fun being on the other end of a turkey shoot.

Putting it rather bluntly, it's specific lists of those armies that really makes things go out there. I play a Pinion Demi-Company with a Shadowstrike Kill-Team and while it can be exceedingly powerful if my rolls are hot, I've never had complaints from the other side about the list. The second I ran a Battle Demi-Company I got complaints--and that was without free transports.

Wasnt the rumor being it was going to be 7.5? with an FAQto cover the changes?

 EnTyme wrote:
Could I just point out that so far the only people to use either the words "New" or "Edition" are journalists looking for a "scoop"?

Well...no. That would be level-headed, measured, and realistic of you.

Why would they finally be working on FAQs if the core rules were going to change significantly in a few months' time?

Maybe they are going to do a 3 ways to play type thing with 40k- full fat, semi skimmed and skimmed modes..

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wasnt the rumor being it was going to be 7.5? with an FAQto cover the changes?

That was the from the Something aweful forum. Then posted by Natfka. Not sure if this has much credibility.

Maybe he was just talking about the simplified version they are selling to hobby stores as an easy introduction to new people.

A decent FaQ and Errata, reworked monstrous creature, vehicle and force organisation rules and some downloadable codizes with adjusted points costs and/or overhauled units(Orks, Chaos) is all the game needs.

Harriticus wrote:GW is releasing new editions every 2 years now in an attempt to keep their declining sales up. This is a likely rumor. I just hope they don't AOS-ify it.

Releasing a new edition of the game is more likely to push customers away.

I've been in this hobby a very long time, since 2nd edition, and I can attest that it's when new editions are released that I've seen the most people jump ship.

It's human nature to be apprehensive to change. People who come into 40K (fresh or returning) and like it are more likely to disapprove of the changes a new edition brings and thus stop playing altogether.

 oni wrote:

Harriticus wrote:GW is releasing new editions every 2 years now in an attempt to keep their declining sales up. This is a likely rumor. I just hope they don't AOS-ify it.

Releasing a new edition of the game is more likely to push customers away.

I've been in this hobby a very long time, since 2nd edition, and I can attest that it's when new editions are released that I've seen the most people jump ship.

It's human nature to be apprehensive to change. People who come into 40K (fresh or returning) and like it are more likely to disapprove of the changes a new edition brings and thus stop playing altogether.

As someone who played 6th like 3 times, and skipped on 7th...a new, less bloated, more balanced rules system might bring me back... I have absolutely no desire to play this game in its current incarnation, but cant bring myself to sell my models...

New edition of the rules coming? Yes, I believe it. And honestly, I don't see why people would think the opposite, after all the gak GW did with 6th edition quickly going to 7th.

I don't expect they will be better written, but if the rules for 40k are finally going on the website/in the boxes "for free" and let the fluff in the codexes, like for AoS...I would be fine with it 100%.

it would just mean there is no point in getting the books besides spending 58 bucks over lore, which hardly attracts anyone around my local stores

At this point I think 2nd edition would be easier to teach a new player than 7th. I know if I teach 40k to my wife, that's what I would do. Sometimes I can't believe it was either 4th or 5th edition that only had about 24 USR's.

I remember 4th ed being really simple to understand. The rulebook wasn't that thick either; maybe like a third of it was full of rules, the rest was hobby stuff and fluff.

 aracersss wrote:
it would just mean there is no point in getting the books besides spending 58 bucks over lore, which hardly attracts anyone around my local stores

Oh, they will just go the AoS way; have some warscrolls and battle plans along the fluff, plenty of nice pictures/artworks and give a reasonable price for the books.

It will just mean if you only want the rules, you don't have to go full pirate or buy an overpriced book. There will be always people buying books, anyway.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Points don't matter. They really, really, really don't. All the garbage players are the ones who whined and whined about "No points means it's going to be anarchy!"

But they do and this is proven with well every other table top game that I know. Sure points come with different names but they are needed. I can understand if it were an historical game where its men with muskets vs other men with muskets but you do need to balance the post human walking tank to the 2 foot high sniveling snotling and points is the most tried and tested method to do so.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
At this point I think 2nd edition would be easier to teach a new player than 7th. I know if I teach 40k to my wife, that's what I would do. Sometimes I can't believe it was either 4th or 5th edition that only had about 24 USR's.

If I were to teach my wife, I'd teach her to play 4th Edition, using the 3rd Edition Rulebook Army Lists.
- 4th Edition is the big cleanup of 3E streamlining 2nd.
- 3rd Edition Rulebook takes care of the Codex problem.

Definitely not RT/2E/6E/7E. Ugh.

Yeah, I guess that's technically true. Those would be the best way ro teach 40K at it's core, with 4th edition and most of the 3rd edition codexes. Though maybe Eldar could use their later edition when things like Autarchs first showed up, as some of the points values of 3rd edition sucked (like 50pt Shining Spears!)

I would be using 2nd ed for more of a skirmish game- remove squad cohesion rules for one thing, use really small points totals, and basically play it as Necromunda with 40k races. At that level 2nd edition works perfectly fine. It's the larger scale that the rules bog down-essentially the problem with every edition since, too.

I'm afraid any further edition would either be just as complicated, or Age of Sigmar. Either is not a good result.

If true, it would appear that I've managed to skip 7th edition entirely. Oh well.

Well we have half the codexes playing 6th and 7th and the super power codexes on 7.5 - pretty much killed the game where we are.

A nice simple game with the flavour and ability to blow lots of stuff up on both sides would go down well with me........

Roll on 8th and the new Sisters of Battle vs Chaos starter set (well we can but hope)

Warhams-77 wrote:
Until someome with a good rumor reputation chimes in and says what it really will be I dont believe this is going to be a new edition.

LMFAO. I am sure that is what people said, then 7th dropped. Nobody said GW will make a new edition only 20 months in. Not even a full two years.

I'll need a much better source than that to believe this rumour.

Anyways, even if there is a new edition I doubt it will be a big change. They could risk it with WHFB, cause they were thinking of canning it, but they won't mess too much with the golden goose.

 godardc wrote:
I can't believe it is true.
Not so soon !
And why doing this just after a faq that clarified the few issues 7th edition had ?

Uhhh... Did we read the same book?

Good on em if they do a proper reboot and release a proper 8th Ed with all codexes being revamped. Aka a "3rd edition" style reboot. There are so many pointless, bloated, and just plain obtuse rules in 7th. Heck there are special rules that when you read their entry, just give you MORE special rules (Crusader i think was a good example). Thats ridiculous.

If they just release a 7.5 with FAQ changes and thats it, it won't be enough. The game needs a serious makeover at this point, not a bandaid. I know it would really annoy some people, but Superheavies, GMC's, and decurion style formations need to be removed from standard and returned to apocalypse. Allies needs to be toned down to two forces max (different space marine chapters should count as different forces as well for this) and the force org needs more incentive to be used. Not to mention the Walker and vehicle rules, the psychic phase, the complete uselessness of Lightly armored infantry like guardsmen, and just the sheer amount of special rules that only exist in one unit in one codex that could just use a standard USR from the main book to get the same result.

If they can do half that it would be massive improvement. If they can drop the prices on rulebooks and codexes too that would be even better, then just release rules for new models online as PDF's or ebooks for free.

GW is making good progress to turn around, but they still have a long way to go before they win back a lot of their old fanbase. "8th" edition, or whatever they call it, will be the crucial moment. Theyll either save the game and bring the old players back, or they'll sink it like they did Fantasy. And while the rumor itself has little going for its legitimacy, you would have to be nuts to not see that this is what GW is up to

Formations, GMC, Super-heavies and so forth cannot be gotten rid off, sorry.