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 redleger wrote:
You can get an article 15, do your extra duty and still ETS honorably.

Ahh tracking you now. Got it.

 SickSix wrote:
Reserves do have MPs and Combat Engineers. They have more than enough training to do something like this.

I guess your MPs are more about keeping order. Ours are supposedly often the first to respond to some sort of urban attack and have the gear/training to do some severe damage to the enemy before Jaegers can arrive. They're supposed to have one DM (designated marksman) per six guys.

Then again, we're reserves all around, only the officers and some specialists are career military. I don't even think I know any man (friends, workmates, aquaintances) who doesn't know at least how to operate an assault rifle and throw some shots down range.

Maybe you, as a non American who has never touched a weapon gets lucky. Most owners of home defense weapons understand how to use them. But I see you would rather roll over, and have others roll over than be able to defend themselves, so this conversation is pointless. I'll not be the sheep, the shepard, or the wolf. I'll the the one the wolf fears to approach.

 Jihadin wrote:

 redleger wrote:
Article 15, can still get out honorably.

Negative. If he was discharge under UCMJ action then it was not under Honorable Conditions. That's a Court Martial. He can be discharge with "Under Honorable Conditions" but lets not go there. Seems he might have done two enlistments. He had some bad years of not showing up for recommended amount of Drills per year. Total guess there. Though the more I think on it the more it seems to be that.

usual reservist recruitment time is about 6 years which seems right in this situation, as to the person rising only to private first class in 6 years that is very slow even for the reservists, many people are already PFC's right out of boot, and to be only a PFC even with a normal deployment rotation is a bit odd, as to the honorable discharge if you complete your service with no major marks on your record or charges it is automatically granted after 6 months if not upon discharge.

Any confirmation on any others they may have in custody alive? 3? 1?

 KiloFiX wrote:
Any confirmation on any others they may have in custody alive? 3? 1?

at this time none, one suspect of interest who turned himself in was released, but as to the others it is unknown at this time.

Getting specialist is a time thing, units have unlimited e4 slots so its no extra cost to them to promote someone to that rank. For him not to have gotten promoted to e4 means he was doing something that his superiors specifically didn't want him promoted for and held him back.

As for stats on this subject:
Roughly 62% of the country is white, 15% is black.
50% of fatal police shootings were white victims, 26% were black.

Blacks were charged with 62% of robberies, 57% of murders, 45% of assaults.
This disproportionate number of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities. Even in New York City, blacks commit roughly 75% of all shootings, 70% of all robberies, even though they comprise only 23% of the city's pop.

More whites and Hispanics are killed by police than blacks even in proportion to the population. 12% of white and Hispanic homicide deaths were due to police while only 4% of black homicide were the result of police.

Black officers were more 3.3 times more likely in 2015 to fire a gun at blacks than other cops at a crime scene.

Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. 40% of cop killers are black even though again they only comprise 15% of the population.

Basically BLM is full of crap and with their rhetoric against cops should be held at least partially accountable.

 CptJake wrote:


Please take this to a new anti-US 2nd amendment topic if you want. Lets not let this one get locked over turing into a 'You 'Mericans are doing it wrong' 'No We're NOT' debate.

Quite

This includes cracks about other nations and their policies too of course.

If you cannot debate the issue without insulting people then don't post.

 Jihadin wrote:

 redleger wrote:
Article 15, can still get out honorably.

Negative. If he was discharge under UCMJ action then it was not under Honorable Conditions. That's a Court Martial. He can be discharge with "Under Honorable Conditions" but lets not go there. Seems he might have done two enlistments. He had some bad years of not showing up for recommended amount of Drills per year. Total guess there. Though the more I think on it the more it seems to be that.

Edit

Corporal is a lateral promotion of a SPC.

Um, most Article 15s do not result in Discharge and would not effect your discharge status. An Art. 15 usually is loss of pay and/or rank and can be recovered from.

Being discharged as a PFC after six years means he was probably AWOL but they just let him ETS instead of going through an AWOL discharge process.

We have had Soldiers in my unit follow that exact scenario. It is such a nut roll to process an Unsatisfactory Performance Discharge that the Soldier just ETS out.

Whoever guessed engineer seems to have nailed it:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/five-police-officers-killed-in-dallas-seven-others-injured-during-shooting-at-protest/ar-BBu5IC9?li=BBnb7Kz?ocid=ansmsnnews11

he did not have a combat job and was listed as a carpentry and masonry specialist

So a vertical construction guy.

 SickSix wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

 redleger wrote:
Article 15, can still get out honorably.

Negative. If he was discharge under UCMJ action then it was not under Honorable Conditions. That's a Court Martial. He can be discharge with "Under Honorable Conditions" but lets not go there. Seems he might have done two enlistments. He had some bad years of not showing up for recommended amount of Drills per year. Total guess there. Though the more I think on it the more it seems to be that.

Edit

Corporal is a lateral promotion of a SPC.

Um, most Article 15s do not result in Discharge and would not effect your discharge status. An Art. 15 usually is loss of pay and/or rank and can be recovered from.

Being discharged as a PFC after six years means he was probably AWOL but they just let him ETS instead of going through an AWOL discharge process.

We have had Soldiers in my unit follow that exact scenario. It is such a nut roll to process an Unsatisfactory Performance Discharge that the Soldier just ETS out.

Aye. I caught on to what Red Leg was saying. I misread a earlier post. Hence I bolo'ed big time on Article 15's.

12W was his MOS. I doubt he was a six year commit though. That's only for Aviation and Medical MOS's. Guards though are auto 6 for 8 years. I feel strongly he was on his 2nd enlistment with the Reserves. His deployment sounds like he stepped forward to volunteer to fill a slot for a deploying unit in the Brigade.

 CptJake wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Another cop shot:

http://www.ksdk.com/news/crime/officer-shot-in-ballwin/267805180


Ballwin, MO.

Know a cop in Atlanta says a cop got shot at (but not hit) during a traffic stop this morning too.

Hope they don't link these, then we start heading back to previous discussion on insurgency.

I doubt a real link, suspect 'copy cat' syndrome. Could be COMPLETELY unrelated though. Again, we'll see what the investigations turn up.

Could be unrelated or Copy Cat. Any cop attacked in the next few days will be national news after last night's events

On a side note my wife noticed Kickstarter is running a BLM hashtag at the top of their page. Interesting they would do that on a day where 5 white policemen were killed and 11 wounded because of their color by a black supremacist.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find a contact email address to voice my opinion to them.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
On a side note my wife noticed Kickstarter is running a BLM hashtag at the top of their page. Interesting they would do that on a day where 5 white policemen were killed and 11 wounded because of their color by a black supremacist.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find a contact email address to voice my opinion to them.

If it said #SupportPolice or #IStandWithPolice yesterday, would you have emailed them as well?

 Nostromodamus wrote:
unately I can't seem to find a contact email address to voice my opinion to them.

You have to have an account and submit a support ticket...

 Nostromodamus wrote:
On a side note my wife noticed Kickstarter is running a BLM hashtag at the top of their page. Interesting they would do that on a day where 5 white policemen were killed and 11 wounded because of their color by a black supremacist.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find a contact email address to voice my opinion to them.

Login and go here if you feel so strongly.

https://www.kickstarter.com/contact

 Nostromodamus wrote:
On a side note my wife noticed Kickstarter is running a BLM hashtag at the top of their page. Interesting they would do that on a day where 5 white policemen were killed and 11 wounded because of their color by a black supremacist.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find a contact email address to voice my opinion to them.

their press e-mail is here, have to admit their timing is not so great:

press@kickstarter.com

Asterios wrote:
their press e-mail is here, have to admit their timing is not so great:

press@kickstarter.com

Thanks.

The gunman is also not representative of BLM.

This is allegedly the perp's 'like' or group memberships on facebook. If accurate it may give an indication as to what he considered his motivating factors.

https://archive.is/AWhWZ

(was shown the link, no idea how accurate it really is)

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The gunman is also not representative of BLM.

Never said he was.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The gunman is also not representative of BLM.

no but he identifies with them to a point, and he knew about their march and such, but like I have always said any group or movement will have its radicals.

Asterios wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The gunman is also not representative of BLM.

no but he identifies with them to a point, and he knew about their march and such, but like I have always said any group or movement will have its radicals.

Finding out about the march and the planned route would not have been difficult. It will be freely available somewhere.

Latest seems to be the dead perp is the only perp.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The gunman is also not representative of BLM.

no but he identifies with them to a point, and he knew about their march and such, but like I have always said any group or movement will have its radicals.

Finding out about the march and the planned route would not have been difficult. It will be freely available somewhere.

Maybe from one of the several BLM groups he belonged to on facebook.

Was watching CNN and that is how they are reporting it. Also saw some good interviews, and sounds like this may stir some dialogue between police and communities.

 Breotan wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
5) Police to adopt a proportional force directive. i.e. lethal force is only used after all other methods are exhausted. Obviously, If somebody starts shotting at a police officer, they have every right to shoot back, but pulling a gun should be a last resort.

This is nice, in theory. I abhor the militarization of the police. However, we do not live in a world where Andy Griffith type policing will work. The criminals here are often way too violent for that. There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing why police in the USA go for an approach of complete control over any situation. Anything less can often quickly result in the cop being killed. Then, on the other side, are the videos of police overreacting and causing harm and/or death to otherwise innocent people and not being held to account by the courts. This deepens the divide between the police and community and poisons a cooperative relationship leaving an adversarial one.

I was watching the news and a spokesperson for the Dallas police mentioned that their officers were trained in deescalation and that the Dallas department had the least number of shootings of any large city in America. Perhaps if that model spreads to other cities, we'll see less loss of innocent life, fewer riots, and a lessening of the hate that makes people act like assassins.

I'm comparing the USA to the UK again, and I'll say from the start that our police are far from perfect - they have their own problems, and I don't want to get into a rant about the failings of British police, but I think the cultural attitude between our nations is a big.

IMO, violent criminals in the USA know the police will be armed, know the police will come in all guns blazing most of the time, and they know that if they get caught, they're likely to get the death penalty or 200 years in prison or something like that.

I believe that this breeds a nothing to lose mentality. If you're looking at the death penalty or a 100 year prison sentence, you may as well go down fighting and try and shoot your way out.

In comparison, UK police are rarely armed, and a life sentence tends to be 30 years if you get caught.

In no way am I saying that the USA should be soft on crime, but I think there is cultural factors, issues with the justice system etc etc that contributes to the problem of violent crime in the USA.

Obviously, if you're being shot at by a sniper, talking goes out of the window, but in general, I think the US police needs a cultural shift to better tackle crime. Most civilians are law abiding. Treating everybody as a potential criminal is counter-productive.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
know the police will come in all guns blazing most of the time

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Treating everybody as a potential criminal

?????

I think it would better to stick more closely to the topic.

Ok, dunno what else has been posted (just got home) but here's what is believed factual about our shooter:

1) Joined the Reserves right out of high school in 2009.

2) Deployed with the 420th Engineer Brigade to Bagram in 2013 where in his spare time he attended the gym and weapons training, while working as an Engineer and doing guard duty. Returned to US sometime in 2014.

Made PFC, and received the following: National Defense Service Medal, an Afghanistan Campaign Medal, a Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, an Army Service Ribbon, an Armed Forces Reserve Medal, and a NATO Medal. Your basic prizes at the bottom of the crackerjack box.

3)Transferred to Individual Ready Reserve in 2015.

4)Now for the piece that does not fit: went to work for a company called Touch of Kindness that drives the mentally handicapped around to appointments and grocery shopping. He apparently worked there until, well, this.

Would he have been due for a Good Conduct Medal after 5 years, or is the time frame different for Reserves?

Has it been confirmed yet that it was just one shooter, or were there multiple shooters?