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Let's move on from if McVeigh/others were or were not conservatives/whatever, and instead focus on the topic. Thanks.

I don't mean to drag this off topic but is anyone else kinda annoyed that the shooter keeps being refereed to as a sniper. I haven't heard what kind of weapon he was using but why are they calling him that.

He wasn't a sniper in the military
He wasn't engaging from a long distance
His accuracy was not even close to sniper level.

I believe I read he was shooting from about 200 yards (not sure on that). I'm probably being needlessly picky. But just curious

If you go by the literal definition of the word Sniper, that is what he is.

"shoot from a hidden place"

I get that. Lord knows when I was a sniper in the military we spent more time training on camouflage,stalking,evasion, and surveillance than we did shooting. Not that we didn't shoot a lot either. I'm just being too picky. I'll stop derailing the thread now.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
If you go by the literal definition of the word Sniper, that is what he is.

"shoot from a hidden place"

I think additional "sniper" tactics involve not just distance, but also things such as operating from concealment and selective targeting.

Of course it does. But most people don't know what being a sniper entails. Most people only know that sniper are good shots and engage from concealed positions.

yellowfever wrote:
Of course it does. But most people don't know what being a sniper entails. Most people only know that sniper are good shots and engage from concealed positions.

He also had a sniper rifle though, probably even a tactical and/or assault sniper rifle.

/ducks

I tried finding out what he used. One source said it was an SKS. another source said it was an AK74 with a red dot.

It's just really Sad how crazy this world is going.

Btw, I chatted with one of the kinfolk of one of the Officers that passed. So sad.

 d-usa wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
Of course it does. But most people don't know what being a sniper entails. Most people only know that sniper are good shots and engage from concealed positions.

He also had a sniper rifle though, probably even a tactical and/or assault sniper rifle.

/ducks

D-USA, once again baiting with a horrible statement like that. That talk is what makes people think those things exist.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

yellowfever wrote:
I tried finding out what he used. One source said it was an SKS. another source said it was an AK74 with a red dot.

AK clone-that is correct. Looks like it had plastic furniture so maybe an American made version.

yellowfever wrote:
I tried finding out what he used. One source said it was an SKS. another source said it was an AK74 with a red dot.

an SKS look very similar to an AK-47, and is simply the non fully automatic upgraded version. A sniper rifle it most certainly is not. The optic on it was either a red dot or ACOG knock off, neither of which are for long range, although both can be used effectively at 300+ meters.

 CptJake wrote:
Perp's gun:

@ yellowfever, I'll quote CptJake who posted a pic of it earlier in the thread.

Was NOT a sniper rifle. A sporting rilfe sure. Just because it has optics of some sort doesn't make it a sniper rifle. Its a Saiga AK-74 which currently is banned from import since its from a Russian manufacturer. You can buy the optics on Amazon, and while the picture isn't close enough for detail, I am betting it was a cheap knockoff or clone.

They do actually make "sniper/marksman" rifles similar to AK. Dragunovs, which for the cost of one you could likely buy about a half dozen of these or you can get Romanian version, a PSL, which is much cheaper but still more costly than this. I had one for awhile, it was very uncomfortable to shoot so I sold it. Looked cool as hell though, but the thin barrel gets hot too quickly.

 d-usa wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
If you go by the literal definition of the word Sniper, that is what he is.

"shoot from a hidden place"

I think additional "sniper" tactics involve not just distance, but also things such as operating from concealment and selective targeting.

And camping respawn points. Bastards.

 redleger wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
I tried finding out what he used. One source said it was an SKS. another source said it was an AK74 with a red dot.

an SKS look very similar to an AK-47, and is simply the non fully automatic upgraded version.

Completely false. The SKS was developed at the tail end of WW2 by a different designer and served in the Soviet army for a short time before being replaced completely by the AK.

The shooter used a Saiga AK-74 with a scope.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 redleger wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
I tried finding out what he used. One source said it was an SKS. another source said it was an AK74 with a red dot.

an SKS look very similar to an AK-47, and is simply the non fully automatic upgraded version.

Completely false. The SKS was developed at the tail end of WW2 by a different designer and served in the Soviet army for a short time before being replaced completely by the AK.

The shooter used a Saiga AK-74 with a scope.

yep, I had mini brain hemorrhage and I have unscrewed myself. Thank you for the clarification.

Thanks for all the extra info but I know all that. I just hadn't heard what he used. My previous posts explain why I was asking. Thanks guys

Sadly real Dragunovs are about $15k and PSL's, while visually similar, are modified AK's built in RPK receivers as opposed to Dragunov clones.

The choice of a 5.45 Saiga is interesting. Looks like it has a magpul stock with a non converted handguard. The tapco mag is also an interesting choice, but theyre cheap I guess. Not sure what optic that is in the pic though.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Sadly real Dragunovs are about $15k and PSL's, while visually similar, are modified AK's built in RPK receivers as opposed to Dragunov clones.

The choice of a 5.45 Saiga is interesting. Looks like it has a magpul stock with a non converted handguard. The tapco mag is also an interesting choice, but theyre cheap I guess. Not sure what optic that is in the pic though.

Umarex maybe...just looks like a cheapie red dot.

Looks to be a cheap knock off brand. Guessing max range on it is 500m same as the rifle. Throw in another 100m on the range if he adjust up on center mass. Wonder where he Battle Sighted it.

 Jihadin wrote:
Looks to be a cheap knock off brand. Guessing max range on it is 500m same as the rifle. Throw in another 100m on the range if he adjust up on center mass. Wonder where he Battle Sighted it.

At what range were the initial shots taken? It sounds like he just basically starting dumping into a crowd of cops, and the other fatality was from the cop who rushed him. Does anybody have a play by play?

From what I understand he started in the columns. Trap shot a LEO there and ensured the LEO was not getting up again. Proceeded to enter a building. Began firing from different locations in the building. When the LEO's set up road blocks he had them in the "Box". Seems he was firing from within the building being the LEO's had no idea where the shots were coming from. Once direction of fire was determined the "Shooter" withdrew and shot at another two LEO's getting into the parking through a door it seems. Then he holed up in a Dead Space of a building.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The choice of a 5.45 Saiga is interesting.

Well, he might have bought one earlier and just decided to go with it. Right now you can get an AR-15 clone cheaper. IIRC the 5.45 ammo was made specifically to be equally useful as the NATO 5.56 round. Better long-range accuracy than the older 7.62x39 and high velocity to give it a pretty straight trajectory. So useful in open-field engagements and all that.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The choice of a 5.45 Saiga is interesting.

Well, he might have bought one earlier and just decided to go with it. Right now you can get an AR-15 clone cheaper. IIRC the 5.45 ammo was made specifically to be equally useful as the NATO 5.56 round. Better long-range accuracy than the older 7.62x39 and high velocity to give it a pretty straight trajectory. So useful in open-field engagements and all that.

I know a lot of people that bought 5.45 uppers a few years back because the ammo was plentiful and cheap. If the murderer had found a source for inexpensive ammo he may have just gone with whatever rifle he could readily find in that caliber. I don't know about Texas but 5.56 has gotten a bit pricey locally.

Ive got a 5.45 AK and I really enjoy it, its just not a terribly popular platform, most places dont even carry the ammo, and while cheap, its not as cheap as it used to be. I had to go out of my way to buy one and find places to buy ammo to feed it, mags are either expensive ($~40-50) or lacking critical features (e.g. the $15 Tapco mag it looks like he used lacks steel locking lugs and can shear), for someone going off and comitting a shooting like this it just seems an odd choice, though obviously not an ineffective one.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Ive got a 5.45 AK and I really enjoy it, its just not a terribly popular platform, most places dont even carry the ammo, and while cheap, its not as cheap as it used to be. I had to go out of my way to buy one and find places to buy ammo to feed it, mags are either expensive ($~40-50) or lacking critical features (e.g. the $15 Tapco mag it looks like he used lacks steel locking lugs and can shear), for someone going off and comitting a shooting like this it just seems an odd choice, though obviously not an ineffective one.

He bought the AK in a private sale so it could have just been that the guy he bought it from got it a while ago when 5.45 and was looking to sell it at the time when the murderer was looking to buy something.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/dallas-shooter-micah-johnson-purchased-ak-47-facebook-article-1.2708860

Micah Johnson never balked at the $600 asking price for an AK-47 assault rifle. The buy was arranged via Facebook, and consummated in the parking lot of a Target.

Seller Colton Crews forgot about the deal until last week, when ex-Army reservist Johnson killed five Dallas police officers — and federal investigators tracked Crews down.

“I don’t even know how I feel about it right now,” Crews told the Daily News. “I have no idea. It’s awful. It’s just bad.”

Crews, 26, said there was no inkling during their 15-minute November 2014 transaction that Johnson was anything except a military veteran and a solid citizen.

...

Crews specifically asked a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent if his old weapon played a part in the law enforcement carnage.

“He said, ‘All we can say is it was recovered, we’re just finding out everything we can,’” Crews said. “He didn’t say it was the one he used. I hope to God it wasn’t. I hope I’m not that close to all this.”

Thats gotta be awkward. Im so glad I dont have to deal with that...

 Vaktathi wrote:
Thats gotta be awkward. Im so glad I dont have to deal with that...

Yeah, I mean he would've passed his background check if he bought at a store so it's not like the seller did anything wrong but still, that's a terrible feeling.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Thats gotta be awkward. Im so glad I dont have to deal with that...

Yeah, I mean he would've passed his background check if he bought at a store so it's not like the seller did anything wrong but still, that's a terrible feeling.

Yeah, nothing bad on the sellers part.

Somewhat related, one of my firearms instructors has a pretty solid policy for private sales of any of his guns. He just draws up a little paper with the serial number and other information that he and the seller both sign, and he makes a copy of their drivers license, and then keeps them together in a lock box. Just so that in case the gun ever ends up being used in a crime and somebody knocks on his door he can go to his box and say "I sold it on this day to this person, here is their info, have a good day".