Shooting - Munich, Germany shopping mall

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**SickSix**

Do we have any confirmation that any victims were children?

**Ouze**

SickSix wrote:
Do we have any confirmation that any victims were children?

CNN has "Many children were among the casualties. ". 9 dead + attacker and 16 in critical condition.

**Asterios**

Ouze wrote:
I still don't feel confident of ultimate motive was behind the Orlando shooting. People said he was secretly gay and self-loathing over it, but the FBI says no. He said he supports ISIL, but the CIA says no.

My guess it a little of A, a little of B, mixed with a big dose of "crazyperson".

but are not most Terrorist a big dose of crazyperson?

as to the Orlando shooter he doesn't have to be a member of ISIS to be a an Islamic Terrorist if he was influenced by their spiel. and there in is the biggest danger in this country are the homegrown terrorists who are inspired by ISIS and their ideals.

**d-usa**

Ouze wrote:
I still don't feel confident of ultimate motive was behind the Orlando shooting. People said he was secretly gay and self-loathing over it, but the FBI says no. He said he supports ISIL, but the CIA says no.

My guess it a little of A, a little of B, mixed with a big dose of "crazyperson".

That's my take, for the most part. His mix of groups that he pledged support for was very weird, that would be like a shooter pledging support for TNBPP, the KKK and Nation of Islam. I think he was a "regular" spree shooter, who just had to give himself some justification to convince himself that he is not just you regular anti-social nut job.

**Gordon Shumway**

"German officials said investigators were looking into the possibility that Friday’s attack was motivated by anti-immigrant sentiments, as well as the prospect that Islamist extremism was behind it." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/german-police-seal-off-mall-area-in-munich-after-shots-fired/2016/07/22/6567e6d8-502c-11e6-a422-83ab49ed5e6a_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_munich-1pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Well I'll be snookered.

**Mr. Burning**

Much more of the same:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36873180

....A shooting at a Munich shopping centre which left nine people dead was carried out by one gunman who then killed himself, German police have said.
The suspect was an 18-year-old German-Iranian dual national who lived in Munich, police told a news conference, but his motive is unclear.
Sixteen people were injured, three critically, police added.
A huge manhunt was launched following reports that up to three gunmen had been involved in the attack.
The body of the suspect was found about 1km (0.6 miles) from the Olympia shopping centre in the north-western suburb of Moosach.
Events as they happened
Munich shooting in pictures
Eyewitness accounts
Munich police chief Hubertus Andrae told the news conference early on Saturday that the suspect had not been known to police and there were no known links to terror groups, although investigations were continuing.
The reports of three suspected attackers came when witnesses saw two people leaving the scene in a car "at considerable speed", but they were later confirmed not to be involved, he added.
"The motive or explanation for this crime is completely unclear," he said.
Mr Andrae also said that children were among the casualties, but gave no further details.....

Being German Iranian muddies the waters a little bit with regards to motivations. I'm leaning towards an anti immigrant crazy.

**Breotan**

Ouze wrote:
Breotan wrote:
I just read that the killer was Iranian. Isn't that unusual for a terrorist?

I think so, yes.

Something about this just seems off. I've called past incidents terrorism right off the bat but this time I'm hesitant because it feels more like a man "going postal" than an actual terror attack. I expect it doesn't really make any difference to the victims but as long as we're playing Monday morning quarterback here I'd like to have better information available.

**Silent Puffin?**

ZergSmasher wrote:
Compare this to perhaps the most core tenet of Christianity, which is to "Love one another". My dad has a book about some of the problems of Islam, if I could remember the title and author I'd cite it here.

Go and read up about the 30 Years War, War of the Three Kingdoms, or any of the other lovely christian religious wars. "Love one and other" was not in evidence when half the population of Ireland was killed. Every religion has its fanatics and dubious dogma, singling out islam is not only disingenuous it is also ignorant and ignorance will only make things worse.

What largely stopped Christian fundamentalism was political stability, this is exactly what is required to prevent Islamic fundamentalism.

This attack does seem to be due to a 'lone wolf' to me at least, although given how connected everyone is these days is it even possible to be a true lone wolf anymore? I'm sure that ISIS will take the credit/blame anyway.

**jhe90**

So two options...

Islamist or right wing crazy

Both very bad for Germanny....

**Witzkatz**

jhe90 wrote:
So two options...

Islamist or right wing crazy

Both very bad for Germanny....

To be honest, the "why" won't change much for the parents and family members who lost their children and loved ones yesterday. If it's islamistic, it's a worrying thing for sure, but was to be expected at some point - the terrorists were focusing France quite a bit, but that never meant Germany was immune to attacks. If it's right-wing, it's rather unheard of in its open violence and the suicide afterwards - our local right-wing extremists try to save their own skin, usually. I'm not sure how well-known the NSU and the court process surrounding them is internationally?

In any case, it might still be more on the "mentally unhinged" side - that seems to be mostly the type to commit suicide by bullet after killing a few people, isn't it?

Do we have any news on where he got the gun from?

**jhe90**

Witzkatz wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
So two options...

Islamist or right wing crazy

Both very bad for Germanny....

To be honest, the "why" won't change much for the parents and family members who lost their children and loved ones yesterday. If it's islamistic, it's a worrying thing for sure, but was to be expected at some point - the terrorists were focusing France quite a bit, but that never meant Germany was immune to attacks. If it's right-wing, it's rather unheard of in its open violence and the suicide afterwards - our local right-wing extremists try to save their own skin, usually. I'm not sure how well-known the NSU and the court process surrounding them is internationally?

In any case, it might still be more on the "mentally unhinged" side - that seems to be mostly the type to commit suicide by bullet after killing a few people, isn't it?

Do we have any news on where he got the gun from?

More if Islamist as you said, there target priorities are moving about.
Yes, changes nothing. People still died.

And if right wing. Maybe dangerous they are waking up and another threat to list..
They could be feeding off the fear and using it as fuel.

**reds8n**

https://www.buzzfeed.com/karstenschmehl/diese-fotos-aus-muenchen-sind-fake?utm_term=.er70MM3xop#.dgmAeeDK4q

collection of some of the fake claims, pictures etc doing the rounds.

I've seen the american comedian ones come up in 2 or 3 incidents now.

Must have really annoyed someone somewhere.

**Mr. Burning**

reds8n wrote:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/karstenschmehl/diese-fotos-aus-muenchen-sind-fake?utm_term=.er70MM3xop#.dgmAeeDK4q

collection of some of the fake claims, pictures etc doing the rounds.

I've seen the american comedian ones come up in 2 or 3 incidents now.

Must have really annoyed someone somewhere.

More likely lazy media and news outlets not doing research and/or filling their 'white guy gun nut crazy person' shaped holes with these images.

Whoever took his photo must rake it in with royalty payments though.

**Witzkatz**

German press conference live right now.

Three core points by them:

1. It was only one shooter
2. No conncetion to the whole "refugee" topic as of now
3. Munich will be open to business and tourists again ASAP

Apparently they found evidence in his place rather pointing towards the "Amok" angle than anything with a deeper ideology. Update: No ISIS stuff in his room, but rather lots of articles about previous amok runs in Germany and the police reactions.

Cops in plainclothes apprehended the guy near that parking lot, too. One or more shots were fired at him, but apparently missed, as the obduction report points out. Only one bullet wound, fitting a suicide and his left-handedness.

The attacker was armed with a 9mm Glock with filed-off serial number. The backpack was full of ammunition, over 300 rounds, apparently.

There might be evidence that he had been seeking psychiatric help for a depressive episode earlier in his life. He did not commit any crime previous to this, and was not known to the police for any infractions.

**Mr. Burning**

Witzkatz wrote:
German press conference live right now.

Three core points by them:

1. It was only one shooter
2. No conncetion to the whole "refugee" topic as of now
3. Munich will be open to business and tourists again ASAP

Apparently they found evidence in his place rather pointing towards the "Amok" angle than anything with a deeper ideology.

Hope that firms up.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Future War Cultist wrote:
@ AlmightyWalrus

For starters, accept that there is a serious issue with Islam's teachings.

And that is all I'm going to say, because I'm seriously not going to recieve a visit from the police over this like so many others in this fethed up country.

This is the part where I ask how much you actually know about Islam, and how much you just think you know. It's also the part where I point out that you've deflected the question multiple times. You're not doing a very good impression for someone who apparently knows the truth.

**Silent Puffin?**

I see that the blame appears to have shifted onto "violent computer games".

**Witzkatz**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
I see that the blame appears to have shifted onto "violent computer games".

I haven't seen that angle come up yet, was it mentioned at a later part of the press conference, or is it a newspaper source?

**AlmightyWalrus**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
I see that the blame appears to have shifted onto "violent computer games".

Obviously extremist islamist games. "What else could it be"?

**Silent Puffin?**

Witzkatz wrote:

I haven't seen that angle come up yet, was it mentioned at a later part of the press conference, or is it a newspaper source?

It was repeatedly mentioned on Sky news.

**Mr. Burning**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Witzkatz wrote:

I haven't seen that angle come up yet, was it mentioned at a later part of the press conference, or is it a newspaper source?

It was repeatedly mentioned on Sky news.

With no chance of an ISIL connection they are probably latching on to something they can drag on and on for the next few days.

**angelofvengeance**

So apparently this scumbag set up a Facebook page before he went on his rampage advertising free food handouts to draw more people in.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Witzkatz wrote:

I haven't seen that angle come up yet, was it mentioned at a later part of the press conference, or is it a newspaper source?

It was repeatedly mentioned on Sky news.

well news organisations are never going to blame news organisation (as may well be the case if the reports of him collection info on previous spree killers in Germany is true)

**Mr. Burning**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36874497

Lots of literature regarding mass shootings.

18 years old!!

Psychiatric Care.

No Known criminal activity but had been attacked on two occasions in 2010 and 2012.

**d-usa**

I'm glad that our British Dakkanauts were able to restrain themselves from running afoul of their local laws when talking about this non-ISIS connected attack.

**Mr. Burning**

d-usa wrote:
I'm glad that our British Dakkanauts were able to restrain themselves from running afoul of their local laws when talking about this non-ISIS connected attack.

Please don't tar us all with the same brush!.....

Ahem.

**SickSix**

Well color me shocked. Sounds more like the Newton school shooter than anything else. Just a pscho.

**Ouze**

Witzkatz wrote:
Apparently they found evidence in his place rather pointing towards the "Amok" angle than anything with a deeper ideology

What does this mean? Sorry, I'm not getting you.

**Mr. Burning**

Ouze wrote:
Witzkatz wrote:
Apparently they found evidence in his place rather pointing towards the "Amok" angle than anything with a deeper ideology

What does this mean? Sorry, I'm not getting you.

Running Amok? Just a random guy with issues. Maybe? I wasn't sure myself but evidence is pointing towards a disturbed individual anyway.

**SemperMortis**

Have they officially confirmed this was another misunderstanding between the western world and the Religion of Peace?