Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Crimson wrote:
Just realised that the frag cannon in the kit doesn't come with the similar big ammo back pack as the one in Overwatch. Mildly annoying.

This is one of the reasons I've been buying up the Imperial Fist frag cannon miniature off ebay every time one pops up under $10.

I'm at six now, once I find 8 it'll cover all my Frag units. Luckily, the shoulder pad is separate so I can still differentiate and give them different shoulders.

So if the DeathWatch are the trained, best of the best for killing xenos of all varieties, and Grey Knights are designed specifically for fighting daemons, does that mean that the other loyal space marine chapters are to focus mostly on fighting their chaos brethren? (in the fluff)

Edit: So about the story that comes with Death Masque

Warhammer TV has posted a Codex: Deathwatch - Gaming and Tactics video on their Facebook page with Eddie Eccles and Rob Symes.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
So if the DeathWatch are the trained, best of the best for killing xenos of all varieties, and Grey Knights are designed specifically for fighting daemons, does that mean that the other loyal space marine chapters are to focus mostly on fighting their chaos brethren? (in the fluff)

Edit: So about the story that comes with Death Masque

Spoiler:

Did Eldrad actually awaken Ynnead, or was the constellation he saw at the end another (possibly chaos) god stirring to life?)

Dark Angels are trained specifically for that (well, they're trained to capture the Fallen), but the rest of the marines are more "all-round". They fight whatever needs killing.

 Bi'ios wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
So if the DeathWatch are the trained, best of the best for killing xenos of all varieties, and Grey Knights are designed specifically for fighting daemons, does that mean that the other loyal space marine chapters are to focus mostly on fighting their chaos brethren? (in the fluff)

Edit: So about the story that comes with Death Masque

Spoiler:

Did Eldrad actually awaken Ynnead, or was the constellation he saw at the end another (possibly chaos) god stirring to life?)

Dark Angels are trained specifically for that (well, they're trained to capture the Fallen), but the rest of the marines are more "all-round". They fight whatever needs killing.

Oh okay, cool. I haven't read much Dark Angels fluff as i've never been interested in that particular chapter. Is their term "Fallen" in reference to Renegades who've turned to chaos, or is it a more specific type of chaos marine?

DW vets comes with CCW and bolter. Swap bolter for stalker bolter and swap CCW for bolter....pretty simple

 RedFox wrote:
DW vets comes with CCW and bolter. Swap bolter for stalker bolter and swap CCW for bolter....pretty simple

Yup. the hangup is whether or not the swapped bolter can be swapped again for the shotgun - Sniper/Shotty is the preferred FPS loadout for many people and would work well to having a versatile unit in 40K as well. As has been stated before, swapping a swap is how Codex: SM bikers get their special weapons so until a designer's note or FAQ specifically says "no you cannot do this", i'd say it's legit for the Deathwatch. And why shouldn't it be? A typical deathwatch army will only have about 30 models at 1500 points - they need to be versatile to hold their own. In the end they'll fail 3+ saves just like codex marines will when they get shot or assaulted.


I liked the idea of a Malleus Kill team with missiles for sitting in the back like devastators to hunt enemy heavy support - but then i saw the restriction that the unit must contain at least 2 thunder hammers or heavy thunder hammers. That's 60 points of wasted kit for a backfield unit - So now my Deathwatch heavy support squad will be an all-rounder Aquila KT instead. It's looking more and more like Aquila all around is the way to go unless you have a very specific opponent in mind when you're making your list, which reeks of list tailoring, which can make a person appear to be TFG. I don't want to be TFG...so Aquila!

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Bi'ios wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
So if the DeathWatch are the trained, best of the best for killing xenos of all varieties, and Grey Knights are designed specifically for fighting daemons, does that mean that the other loyal space marine chapters are to focus mostly on fighting their chaos brethren? (in the fluff)

Edit: So about the story that comes with Death Masque

Spoiler:

Did Eldrad actually awaken Ynnead, or was the constellation he saw at the end another (possibly chaos) god stirring to life?)

Dark Angels are trained specifically for that (well, they're trained to capture the Fallen), but the rest of the marines are more "all-round". They fight whatever needs killing.

Oh okay, cool. I haven't read much Dark Angels fluff as i've never been interested in that particular chapter. Is their term "Fallen" in reference to Renegades who've turned to chaos, or is it a more specific type of chaos marine?

Lore wise after the Horus Heresy a large part of the Chapter stationed in Caliban reveled against their primarch under the belief they had betrayen them.

The conflict was quite epic and it ended in a massive warp storm and several of those *fallen*lost in time and space, the DA keep this as secret and try to capture those fallen ones whenever they pop without consideration to anyone.
the history it's way more tricky and that's pretty much the *DA version* the books may hint at other possibilities.

Marines are the ultimate all-around warrior for mankind needs, GK where designed against demons, and Deathwatch it's a self made special force to deal with Xenos outside the larger scale conflicts most of the normal marines are deployed for.

Those of you who enjoyed the possibilility of an Ork Blackshield I would encourage you to have a read of some creative fiction based on that concept during a Deathwatch RPG game.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Deffwotch

Here is the intro:

IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE, WAR RAGES THROUGHOUT THE GALAXY. MANKIND IS UNDER SIEGE ON ALL SIDES FROM XENOS, HERETICS, AND THE TAINT OF CHAOS. THE SPACE MARINES, THE IMPERIUM'S FINEST SOLDIERS, BRING WAR TO THE ENEMIES OF MAN. THEIRS IS AN ENDLESS FIGHT, AS THEY WORK TO SAVE MANKIND FROM ALL ITS FOES.

(record needle scratch)

DIS AIN'T DERE STORY

SOMEWHERE IN DEEP SPACE, A BUNCH OF ORKS HAVE DONE DA IMPOSSIBLE! DEY'VE TRICKED DA IMPERIUM INTO THINKIN' DEY'Z SPESS MEHREENS! DA STUPID 'UMIES AIN'T EVA GONNA KNOW WHAT HIT'EM! OUT ON THE LOOTED REPULSIVE CRUISER "DA LOOTED KROOZA," TROUBLE BREWS...

There we have it.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Bi'ios wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
So if the DeathWatch are the trained, best of the best for killing xenos of all varieties, and Grey Knights are designed specifically for fighting daemons, does that mean that the other loyal space marine chapters are to focus mostly on fighting their chaos brethren? (in the fluff)

Edit: So about the story that comes with Death Masque

Spoiler:

Did Eldrad actually awaken Ynnead, or was the constellation he saw at the end another (possibly chaos) god stirring to life?)

Dark Angels are trained specifically for that (well, they're trained to capture the Fallen), but the rest of the marines are more "all-round". They fight whatever needs killing.

Oh okay, cool. I haven't read much Dark Angels fluff as i've never been interested in that particular chapter. Is their term "Fallen" in reference to Renegades who've turned to chaos, or is it a more specific type of chaos marine?

The Fallen are the Dark Angels who remained on Caliban, and went renegade/chaos at the end of the Horus Heresy (the reasons for which are hotly debated, and not entirely clear). At the end of the war, the DA forces are returning home, where they get fired on by their own brothers. Cue giant loyalist/traitor battle, which results in Caliban being destroyed, and DA's being flung through time and space. In order to hide this shameful secret, the DA now attempt to hunt down and capture the Fallen, most of whom have thrown in with the rest of the chaos forces.

This is also why the DA really don't like the Inquisition. They don't want them sticking their noses into DA business and uncovering this secret.

Cephalobeard wrote:
There we have it.

Unfortunately that was a non answer.

No one disagrees that it replaces the boltgun. The problem comes in when people replace their chainsword with another boltgun.

If they want to errata it(that's not a faq question, it would be a change in wording), then they need to asap.

I personally think they will errata, but it is cool to equip them like Hicks in aliens.

Boltgun becomes Shotgun
Melee weapon becomes Boltgun.

It doesn't even require any double trade shinanigans now that I look at it.

That's actually pretty cool! The first founding chapter with a dark secret in its past. I could totally see some fluff reasoning for DA black shields in a deathwatch force, trying to atone for heresy they committed in 30,000.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Spoiler:

So I kinda want to make a Kill Team just so I can make a Black Shield who is obviously from a traitor legion. Like really obvious. Like big Night Lord bat wings on head obvious. But with the shoulder pad symbol blacked out so in-universe nobody knows...

I got it. Rubric marine Black Shield. What chapter is Brother Amun-ra from? He wouldn't say...

I think I'm just going to have an Ork Blackshield.

For funsies.

Don' ask me wut Chapta ahm frum!

Why does your Ork talk like a West Country farmer?

 Bulldogging wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
There we have it.

Unfortunately that was a non answer.

No one disagrees that it replaces the boltgun. The problem comes in when people replace their chainsword with another boltgun.

If they want to errata it(that's not a faq question, it would be a change in wording), then they need to asap.

I personally think they will errata, but it is cool to equip them like Hicks in aliens.

Boltgun becomes Shotgun
Melee weapon becomes Boltgun.

It doesn't even require any double trade shinanigans now that I look at it.

I quite like combi-melta/shotgun vets. No matter the target they've got the kit.

 Bulldogging wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
There we have it.

Unfortunately that was a non answer.

No one disagrees that it replaces the boltgun. The problem comes in when people replace their chainsword with another boltgun.

If they want to errata it(that's not a faq question, it would be a change in wording), then they need to asap.

I personally think they will errata, but it is cool to equip them like Hicks in aliens.

Boltgun becomes Shotgun
Melee weapon becomes Boltgun.

It doesn't even require any double trade shinanigans now that I look at it.

It only require shinanigans when you want the stalker bolter

 Bulldogging wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
There we have it.

Unfortunately that was a non answer.

No one disagrees that it replaces the boltgun. The problem comes in when people replace their chainsword with another boltgun.

If they want to errata it(that's not a faq question, it would be a change in wording), then they need to asap.

I personally think they will errata, but it is cool to equip them like Hicks in aliens.

Boltgun becomes Shotgun
Melee weapon becomes Boltgun.

It doesn't even require any double trade shinanigans now that I look at it.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you, it's why I followed up and continued the question with them.

 Bulldogging wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
There we have it.

Unfortunately that was a non answer.

No one disagrees that it replaces the boltgun. The problem comes in when people replace their chainsword with another boltgun.

If they want to errata it(that's not a faq question, it would be a change in wording), then they need to asap.

I personally think they will errata, but it is cool to equip them like Hicks in aliens.

Boltgun becomes Shotgun
Melee weapon becomes Boltgun.

It doesn't even require any double trade shinanigans now that I look at it.

Somehow "Afraid not" translates to "Yes, but only if you switch out weapons in a specific manner" now.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
There we have it.

Unfortunately that was a non answer.

No one disagrees that it replaces the boltgun. The problem comes in when people replace their chainsword with another boltgun.

If they want to errata it(that's not a faq question, it would be a change in wording), then they need to asap.

I personally think they will errata, but it is cool to equip them like Hicks in aliens.

Boltgun becomes Shotgun
Melee weapon becomes Boltgun.

It doesn't even require any double trade shinanigans now that I look at it.

Somehow "Afraid not" translates to "Yes, but only if you switch out weapons in a specific manner" now.

It seems the impasse here is between intent and RAW. I have a bolter and a CCW. I trade the CCW for a bolter. cool, now i have 2 bolters. I trade the other one for a shotgun - all in the same order as the page is written for wargear. Whether it's modeled akimbo, or one in hand with the other slung around the back of the model, it's a legal loadout strictly RAW from the codex - it's not even super broken, it just adds versatility to an elite marine. Unless the wargear menu is amended, which it might easily be done so with a superscript "4" and then the legend says: "4- A model may not carry a shotgun and a bolter or combi-weapon at the same time."

So any of them can replace a bolter with a shotgun? I can have five marines with shotguns?

/faint

 Ahtman wrote:
So any of them can replace a bolter with a shotgun? I can have five marines with shotguns?

/faint

Yeah, if we take it at the most conservative interpretation (and probably the intended one given how GW's designers have been FAQ'ing things) you can swap your special issue ammo bolter, for a deathwatch shotgun which has 3 ammo types:

S4 ap- Assault 2 16", shred
S4 AP4 Assault 2 16"
S3 AP6 Assault 1 Template

 Yodhrin wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Spoiler:

So I kinda want to make a Kill Team just so I can make a Black Shield who is obviously from a traitor legion. Like really obvious. Like big Night Lord bat wings on head obvious. But with the shoulder pad symbol blacked out so in-universe nobody knows...

I got it. Rubric marine Black Shield. What chapter is Brother Amun-ra from? He wouldn't say...

I think I'm just going to have an Ork Blackshield.

For funsies.

Don' ask me wut Chapta ahm frum!

Why does your Ork talk like a West Country farmer?

DW Sergeant: So... what chapter are you from?

BS Ork: Itz a seekret.

DWS: Okay then. What skills do you posess?

BSO: Iz got dis 'ere big gun fing, an' oiz got red bootz soz I run fasta

DWS: Yes, but, like, what skills do you have?

BSO: I iz good wiv stelf.

DWS: "stelf"?

BSO: Stelf. Iz can 'ide werever I want and noboddy gonna no 'oo I iz.

DWS: Are you sure? You look like you'd stand out. I mean, power armour is hardly stealthy. Do you have a camo cloak or something?

BSO: I haz a purpul hat. Wat ar yoor skillz?

DWS: I am an expert in Orks.

BSO: Kool.

 Selym wrote:

DW Sergeant: So... what chapter are you from?

BS Ork: Itz a seekret.

DWS: Okay then. What skills do you posess?

BSO: Iz got dis 'ere big gun fing, an' oiz got red bootz soz I run fasta

DWS: Yes, but, like, what skills do you have?

BSO: I iz good wiv stelf.

DWS: "stelf"?

BSO: Stelf. Iz can 'ide werever I want and noboddy gonna no 'oo I iz.

DWS: Are you sure? You look like you'd stand out. I mean, power armour is hardly stealthy. Do you have a camo cloak or something?

BSO: I haz a purpul hat. Wat ar yoor skillz?

DWS: I am an expert in Orks.

BSO: Kool.

That is pretty epic. I am now going to have to model a Deathwatch marine with red boots and a purple hat.

Still basically a non answer, but I fear this is the best we'll get for now.

He's totally trying to ignore the RAW loophole like it doesn't exist.

Sorry, no Combi Shotgun.
Yeah, no one said combi shotgun.
I have 2 guns and I replace 1 with a shotgun.
I still have 2 guns.
It's like Ork level math.

 adamsouza wrote:
He's totally trying to ignore the RAW loophole like it doesn't exist.

Sorry, no Combi Shotgun.
Yeah, no one said combi shotgun.
I have 2 guns and I replace 1 with a shotgun.
I still have 2 guns.
It's like Ork level math.

Not worth arguing until we can determine what's on page 73, which they state "clears it up".

Edit: Nevermind. Page 73 is literally the Wargear table that shows you can do this.

I honestly don't think they understand the rules we are discussing lol(the person responding).

That's been the case for ages though, with the replies people get on questions from customer service etc.

"Brother Waaaaghlter, if you'll step this way, the next part of our tour of the Watch Fortress is our mess hall, where you will eat."

"Me want squigs. Big plate."

True but if they do pass it on to the rules team we should see a post clarifying it on the Facebook page pretty quickly.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
True but if they do pass it on to the rules team we should see a post clarifying it on the Facebook page pretty quickly.

They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.