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Elemental wrote: What I've taken from this is that facts don't matter, what people want is a narrative.
It's the foundation of any persuasive message.
What was Hillary's narrative, other than Trump is a disaster? Anyone?
I know, but I was amazed by how little impact it made when it was repeatedly revealed that this guy isn't like you, nor is he someone that anybody should want to be like.
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
The demonstration peaked about 1 a.m., when a Trump piñata was set on fire in a trash can outside a Westwood Boulevard store.
The small blaze aside, no major incidents were reported and police said the crowd was peaceful.
N.J. Omorogieva, 19, said she was “heartbroken” by the election’s result when she spotted the crowd in Westwood while walking home.
“Of course I joined in,” she said. “To give hugs to people who were overcome by devastation.”
In Oakland, demonstrators smashed a window at the Oakland Tribune newsroom and ignited trash containers and tires, police said.
The crowd broke windows on five businesses and vandalized another, said Oakland police spokeswoman Johnna Watson. One citation was issued but no one was arrested, she said.
Protesters also burned Trump in effigy, KNTV reported.
At UC Santa Barbara, hundreds marched near the campus, with some chanting, “Not my president. Not my president.”
One person carried a Mexican flag, according to video posted by the student newspaper, the Daily Nexus.
Well, this should all work out splendidly. What could possibly go wrong in an environment where peaceful gatherings may feature a spot of light arson?
It's a protest that is just people venting and preaching to the choir. Democrats and Hillary supporters in CA are upset that Trump won, they'll get over it. It would be a bigger problem if you had big protests in purple states where you could get opposing groups fighting each other.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
Possibly not, but when your platform is fear, ignorance and hate, then you get what you vote for
Trump didnt have much substance but sure had a lot of rhetoric.
And Hillary's only substance was Trump Will Push The Button! and Trump is Buddies With Putin. Her messaging was just as negative, if not more because she had to distract from the scum bag she is.
Heh, yeah, these "Trump is running on Haterade" arguments are both amusing and amazing.
I live in PA, and for the last week at least we've been seeing just about a Hillary ad every time any show goes to commercial. I don't think I've learned a single thing about Hillary. Instead we were pounded with how bad Trump is.
The problem is, of course, when you're campaigning to be the guy to go down into the sewer... oh, I mean swamp, to drain it, few care how dirty you are going in.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
Possibly not, but when your platform is fear, ignorance and hate, then you get what you vote for
Trump didnt have much substance but sure had a lot of rhetoric.
And Hillary's only substance was Trump Will Push The Button! and Trump is Buddies With Putin. Her messaging was just as negative, if not more because she had to distract from the scum bag she is.
Heh, yeah, these "Trump is running on Haterade" arguments are both amusing and amazing.
I live in PA, and for the last week at least we've been seeing just about a Hillary ad every time any show goes to commercial. I don't think I've learned a single thing about Hillary. Instead we were pounded with how bad Trump is.
The problem is, of course, when you're campaigning to be the guy to go down into the sewer... oh, I mean swamp, to drain it, few care how dirty you are going in.
Because his campaign was based off of hate?
Build that wall, ban those muslims, stop and frisk
Stating he ran his campaign on hate is not a false statement.
I dont believe the KKK endorses people who want peace and equality
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 15:34:50
jreilly89 wrote: So, any chance the UK will take us back? Please?
It would require another referendum, and the country has had 3 big votes in 18 months.
We're kinda fed up of voting, over here....
Plus, I would table an amendment to any parliamentry bill that would have as a condition of the USA's rejoining, to be the prohibition of the sale and manufacture of root beer.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Ok, I dunno if I'm crazy or what but I just woke up from a TERRIBLE nights sleep (not related to the election, crazy meds) and I have this:
Trump presidency will be great for this country. Hell do a lot of crazy stuff and people will generally be screwed for 2-4 years but it will kick people in the nads back to their senses and they'll vote better. But it will have shaken the system so hard that it will give a fresh perspective and the sheer randomness of it alleans that some things will actually be beneficial and the rest can get filtered out.
Been saying for years this country has to get worse before it gets better and I am really optimistic for the future is we can just pull through this last little bit. Something about night is darkest just before dawn.
Ok back to sleep I'm gunna read this later today and be confused horrified or amused. Have fun all life isn't that bad.
jreilly89 wrote: So, any chance the UK will take us back? Please?
Clearly 'we' don't want to go back. Doesn't stop individuals from emigrating though.
No offence to the USA but we just had a major referendum that was fought on the issue of keeping people out of the UK!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Elemental wrote: What I've taken from this is that facts don't matter, what people want is a narrative.
It's the foundation of any persuasive message.
What was Hillary's narrative, other than Trump is a disaster? Anyone?
I know, but I was amazed by how little impact it made when it was repeatedly revealed that this guy isn't like you, nor is he someone that anybody should want to be like.
If I may be serious for a moment: if your criteria for election is a) someone like you, or b) someone you would want to be... what possible argument could there be for Hillary?
It also assumes a very dangerous idea: that people in government are moral exemplars as opposed to what they actually are. Which is deeply flawed people of questionable moral character.
I think it rather better to judge people not by what they are, but what they do. If you like the 1965 Civil Rights act, does it matter if LBJ actually said "this will have the [see forum posting rules] voting Democratic for 100 years"?
But this view is deeply rooted in my moral philosophy that motives are profoundly secondary, among other things.
"What follows is my 100-day action plan to Make America Great Again. It is a contract between myself and the American voter — and begins with restoring honesty and accountability, and bringing change to Washington. On the first day of my term of office, my administration will immediately pursue the following:
Six measures to clean up the corruption and special interest collusion in Washington, DC:
★ FIRST, propose a constitutional amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress.
★ SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce the federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health).
★ THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated.
★ FOURTH, a five-year ban on White House and Congressional offi cials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service.
★ FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House offi cials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government.
★ SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections.
Seven actions to protect American workers:
★ FIRST, I will announce my intention to renegotiate NAFTA or withdraw from the deal under Article 2205.
★ SECOND, I will announce our withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
★ THIRD, I will direct the Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator.
★ FOURTH, I will direct the Secretary of Commerce and U.S. Trade Representative to identify all foreign trading abuses that unfairly impact American workers and direct them to use every tool under American and international law to end those abuses immediately.
★ FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars’ worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.
★ SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward.
★ SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fi x America’s water and environmental infrastructure.
Five actions to restore security and the constitutional rule of law:
★ FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama.
★ SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement for Justice Scalia from one of the 20 judges on my list, who will uphold and defend the U.S. Constitution.
★ THIRD, cancel all federal funding to sanctuary cities.
★ FOURTH, begin removing the more than two million criminal illegal immigrants from the country and cancel visas to foreign countries that won’t take them back.
★ FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered “extreme vetting.”
Middle Class Tax Relief and Simplification Act An economic plan designed to grow the economy 4% per year and create at least 25 million new jobs through massive tax reduction and simplification, in combination with trade reform, regulatory relief and lifting the restrictions on American energy. The largest tax reductions are for the middle class. A middle-class family with two children will get a 35% tax cut. The current number of brackets will be reduced from seven to three, and tax forms will likewise be greatly simplified. The business rate will be lowered from 35% to 15%, and the trillions of dollars of American corporate money overseas can now be brought back at a 10% rate.
End the Offshoring Act Establishes tariffs to discourage companies from laying off their workers in order to relocate in other countries and ship their products back to the U.S. tax-free.
American Energy and Infrastructure Act Leverages public-private partnerships, and private investments through tax incentives, to spur $1 trillion in infrastructure investment over ten years. It is revenue neutral.
School Choice and Education Opportunity Act Redirects education dollars to give parents the right to send their kid to the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school of their choice. Ends Common Core and brings education supervision to local communities. It expands vocational and technical education, and makes two and four year college more affordable.
Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act Fully repeals Obamacare and replaces it with Health Savings Accounts, the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines and lets states manage Medicaid funds. Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications.
Affordable Childcare and Eldercare Act Allows Americans to deduct childcare and eldercare from their taxes, incentivizes employers to provide on-site childcare services and creates tax-free dependent care savings accounts for both young and elderly dependents, with matching contributions for low-income families.
End Illegal Immigration Act Fully-funds the construction of a wall on our southern border with the full understanding that the country of Mexico will be reimbursing the United States for the full cost of such wall; establishes a two-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering the U.S. after a previous deportation, and a five-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering for those with felony convictions, multiple misdemeanor convictions or two or more prior deportations; also reforms visa rules to enhance penalties for overstaying and to ensure open jobs are offered to American workers first.
Restoring Community Safety Act Reduces surging crime, drugs and violence by creating a task force on violent crime and increasing funding for programs that train and assist local police; increases resources for federal law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors to dismantle criminal gangs and put violent offenders behind bars.
Restoring National Security Act Rebuilds our military by eliminating the defense sequester and expanding military investment; provides veterans with the ability to receive public VA treatment or attend the private doctor of their choice; protects our vital infrastructure from cyber-attack; establishes new screening procedures for immigration to ensure those who are admitted to our country support our people and our values.
Clean Up Corruption in Washington Act Enacts new ethics reforms to drain the swamp and reduce the corrupting influence of special interests on our politics."
Elemental wrote: What I've taken from this is that facts don't matter, what people want is a narrative.
It's the foundation of any persuasive message.
What was Hillary's narrative, other than Trump is a disaster? Anyone?
I know, but I was amazed by how little impact it made when it was repeatedly revealed that this guy isn't like you, nor is he someone that anybody should want to be like.
A year ago only 8% of Republicans approved of Congress and that was when Republicans were the majority party. I think a lot of people just underestimated how upset Republican voters were with the GOP establishment and Trump was clearly a candidate that worked against the GOP establishment. Opposing the establishment of the RNC and Republican career politicians was enough to get Republicans to look past Trump's status as a plutocrat with a history of political involvement, he wasn't really an outsider from politics he was just an outsider from the Republican leadership. Boehner was the House Majority Leader at the time when Republicans gave Congress an 8% approval rating, that's pretty amazing.
Frustration with the party leadership may explain why Republicans (8%) are slightly less likely to approve of the job Congress is doing than either independents (13%) or Democrats (11%), even though Republicans have majority control of both houses. Usually, Congress' approval ratings are significantly higher among supporters of the majority party.
Republicans' more negative evaluation of Congress is a recent development. In the first poll Gallup conducted entirely after the GOP assumed control of the Senate earlier this year, Republicans (27%) were significantly more likely than Democrats (17%) and independents (18%) to approve of Congress, consistent with the historical pattern.
But in the spring and early summer months, Republicans' views began to sour, as the party made little progress in achieving its legislative goals. Those views got worse through the summer and early fall -- by July, only 11% of Republicans approved of Congress, and their approval since then has slipped further to 8%. Since July, Democrats' and independents' ratings have been consistently higher than Republicans', although Democrats and independents also view Congress quite negatively.
A year ago, Republicans were celebrating key victories in the 2014 midterm elections that gave the party control of the Senate and increased their majority in the House. But a year later, rank-and-file Republicans find little to celebrate with Congress, as they give the institution lower approval ratings than Democrats and independents do. As a result, Americans' overall approval ratings of Congress are once again near record lows.
To put Republicans' unhappiness with Congress in perspective, their 8% approval rating of the GOP-led Congress is essentially the same as the 9% approval rating they gave the Democratic-led Congress at the time of the 2010 midterm elections.
Much of Republicans' ire appears directed at the party leadership.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Ok, I dunno if I'm crazy or what but I just woke up from a TERRIBLE nights sleep (not related to the election, crazy meds) and I have this:
Trump presidency will be great for this country. Hell do a lot of crazy stuff and people will generally be screwed for 2-4 years but it will kick people in the nads back to their senses and they'll vote better. But it will have shaken the system so hard that it will give a fresh perspective and the sheer randomness of it alleans that some things will actually be beneficial and the rest can get filtered out.
Been saying for years this country has to get worse before it gets better and I am really optimistic for the future is we can just pull through this last little bit. Something about night is darkest just before dawn.
Ok back to sleep I'm gunna read this later today and be confused horrified or amused. Have fun all life isn't that bad.
If it's any consolation, I think your foreign policy will be very good, if Trump holds to his words.
And at any rate, could Trump be worse than Obama's constant use of drones to kill civilians the world over? The war against the 4th amendment, and of course, his failure to shut down G'bay?
People seem to overlook these things about Obama....
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
Possibly not, but when your platform is fear, ignorance and hate, then you get what you vote for
Trump didnt have much substance but sure had a lot of rhetoric.
Again, what was Hillary's narrative beyond bashing Trump? Hillary fell into the same trap as Kerry did in 2004.
To become POTUS, you have to make the case for why people should vote FOR you. Not just against the other guy.
Which is part of why I thought Sanders would be good on her ticket. That guy will tell you what he wants to do. Sure, it's unworkable and unrealistic, but at least there's a clear platform there. Maybe that would have pushed her more. In a way, her campaign was extraordinarily arrogant...it was more or less "Trump is a joke, vote for me and well, just trust me on the rest." But people don't trust her...that's the problem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 15:44:17
Well, he did it. Trump pulled it off. I'm actually surprised, and it was a close race in some States.
The bad part of all this election hubbub is that we got that prick Cooper as Governor-Elect here in North Carolina. It looks like we'll be backtracking to the heap the State was in during the Perdue years.
In any case, it's going to be an interesting four years.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 15:43:03
Build that wall, ban those muslims, stop and frisk
Stating he ran his campaign on hate is not a false statement.
I dont believe the KKK endorses people who want peace and equality
Well, if you believe that only hate could justify those positions, then truly it must be hate that motivates them. But if that is the case, I may have found a book you dropped...
Spoiler:
Now, that's poking a little fun, but given as one might reasonably infer I hold at least some of the positions you are maligning, perhaps you might inquire how one might hold them. Though that would run the risk of contaminating your thoughts...
Similarly, I'm fascinated that the 'KKK' endorsing Trump is de-facto evidence of his deep seated invidious racism, but Hillary's endorsement by the ethno-nationalist group La Raza implies nothing about Hillary one might object to.
Clinton suffered badly in areas that voted heavily in favour of Obama...
Some of these areas are predominantly white Americans....
Interesting....
It's almost as if four decades of wage depression relative to growth, deindustrialisation denuding whole regions of work, and anyone affected by aforementioned or expressing concern about it being vilified or high-handedly dismissed by a neoliberal centrism that painted any criticism of their economic policy as nothing more than a crypto-racist, crypto-misogyinist reaction to their social policy, as if all of that has had a negative impact on the desire of the decimated working class to turn out and vote for said neoliberal centrists, and has apparently inspired in some of them a desire to inflict some pain & bewilderment themselves for a change.
Shockarooni, eh.
Yep, the fact that Trump support was stacked with low education white voters, adopted a policy of blaming outsiders and Muslims, and has embraced fringe groups and Trump openly mocked women based on appearance totally makes that misogynist/racist critique look invalid. Wait.... Fortunately for him, Clinton was a pretty terrible candidate.
Clinton's vote was lower among women, blacks, and hispanics than Obama. The biggest swing to Trump came from the under $30K income bracket, and often from areas with a high proportion of white voters which have previously had a Dem bias in elections and which voted for Obama twice. Did racists and misogynists predominantly support Trump? Yes. But the stats do not support the conclusion that racists and misogynists won him the election alone.
Yes, the working class has taken a hit. And in true reactionary faction, they have selected demagogue to lead them. Fortunately, the democratic process has contained the misdirected anger to a greater degree than some systems. Unfortunately, they have still voted against their own interests. The idea that a self aggrandizing billionaire who inherited his wealth base, and is neck deep in the corporate oligarchy that undermined the American working class will somehow help them would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
And this, right here, is the reason why he did win; you still can't grasp the simple idea that a lot of these people voted for Trump knowing fine well he wouldn't help them, because they didn't believe either candidate would help them but where voting for Clinton would be an endorsement of that fact, voting for Trump gave those with nothing or very little to lose a chance to inflict some loss on the sneering career political and media class that only ever seem acknowledge their existence outside of election time to call them bigots and thickos.
If you want someone to blame, blame yourselves(collective, nonspecific) for being happy to accept a tepid, centrist, technocratic liberalism for decades while people's lives were being ruined; blame a Democratic establishment who fought so hard for a dynastic candidate because it was her "turn" and because she served their interests, rather than a candidate who could have tapped the anti-establishment mood of the electorate for more benign ends.
And even if you're(collective, nonspecific) still incapable of recognising your own role in electing President Trump, at least have the common bloody sense to ball up all that indignant recrimination and cram it right down where nobody else can see it and you can ignore it, because whether you like it or not you need those people to win elections; the people who didn't turn out, the people who voted third party, yes even the people who voted for Trump as a last futile "from hell's heart, I stab at thee". You need all of them, and it's pretty obvious that continuing to do what you have been doing for the last four decades isn't going to win them over, so either take an honest, critical, neutral look at their situation and their greivances and work out how your lot can address those issues within your own ideological framework, or carp uselessly from the sidelines. Your choice.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Errr... I got a question for the USA citizens (or anyone else that might know), OK, Donald Trump is the new president, but isn't stuff like Congress and The House (or whaetver it's called) meant to regulate his potential?
The recurring theme of the past 8 years is that we have a broken system. The system broke with the Bushes, and Obama promised to fix it (Hope, Change, and Unity, remember?) but largely didn't.
The Mandate of the People with the 'clean sweep' of the Execute, Legislate, and very likely Judicial branch is going to have to manifest itself itself in repairing the political system and showing ability to resolve orders of business. "Figure out how trade, borders, and response to violent conflict/terror are supposed to work, folks." In this way Trump actually has a stronger mandate than Obama did.
If no progress is made, especially with an unfriendly media, disgust will be palpable.
But therein lies the rub.
The "broken system" won't be fixed. The same representatives keep getting elected to Congress and the Senate.
It's always frustrating when the electorate decries Congress as being terrible but then re-elects the incumbents. The disconnect of Congress is terrible but my Senator/Representative is awesome has proven to be difficult to break through. It's also been extremely difficult to get those incumbents who benefit from their seniority to pass legislation that imposes term limits. We have term limits for PotUS we should have term limits for Congress setting the limit at 3 or 4 terms, that's plenty of time to represent your constituents.
The reason is simple - the constituents feel, in general, that their incumbent is doing an adequate job - it is always those other people's incumbents that cause the problems.
The folks that do not do an adequate job in the eyes of their own constituents do not last long enough to set in the deep roots that keep them grounded when the waters overflow the banks.
So, Maine is a Blue state that has had a long serving Republican senator - she has been doing her job. Folks don't want to get rid of her.
I am, in general, against term limits - even when they benefit my own political views. Contrary to what some may think, experience does help.
The Auld Grump
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 15:48:22
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
But the blame for this outcome lies squarely with the establishments of both the Republican and Democratic parties. Our elites have been exposed as empty suits, flailing in response to Trump. The Republicans were too weak and in disarray to stop Trump, with their 16 lame presidential contenders knocked out one by one. They effectively let Trump hijack their party.
The Democratic bigwigs were arguably too strong, maintaining a bureaucratic iron-hold on the nomination process. Very early on, they conceded to the Clinton machine, and all potential contenders were too cowardly to challenge her and point out what was obvious to the world – that the empress had too much baggage. In retrospect, the arrogance of the Democratic elite – nominating a throwback to the 1990s, scandals included – was astonishing.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
kronk wrote: The Senate is only a simple majority for the Republicans. They did not get the 60 they need to block filibuster, so there is still some measure of control, still some need to work with the other side.
That filibuster rule is not as strong as you think after Reid changed the filibuster rules which the GOP has not changed back. Effectively there is nothing to stop the GOP from finishing what Reid started and further erode the filibuster rules, maybe even eliminating filibusters altogether.
Six measures to clean up the corruption and special interest collusion in Washington, DC:
★ FIRST, propose a constitutional amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress.
★ SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce the federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health).
★ THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated.
★ FOURTH, a five-year ban on White House and Congressional offi cials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service.
★ FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House offi cials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government.
★ SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections.
Seven actions to protect American workers:
★ FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars’ worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.
★ SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward.
★ SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fi x America’s water and environmental infrastructure.
Just to comment a bit on these few that I've left.... This guy is so out of touch. Ok, the constitutional amendment thing... Cool, you proposed it, now, you expect the congress it affects to actually vote for it? Are you fething mental?
-The hiring freeze.... Yeah, you're saying that, but you have no idea exactly what that means, both to services rendered, and regulatory functions.
-third, for every step forward, you must take 2 steps back.... Fething hell, federal regulations, generally speaking are not created in a vacuum.
4, 5, and 6- OK cool... you just summarized what is already taught in the military's ethics training.... how the feth are you gonna apply it to congress AND get them to follow it?
Second block:
-We're gonna keep building environment destroying things, we're gonna ramp up earthquake causing fracking.... and we're somehow gonna fix our water supply at the same time.... Really? In what world does that fething make sense?
And on that note, I ain't even touching his idea of what "constitutional rule of law" is... because I'd bet money that it wont be very constitutional. And apparently, he wants to step up the vetting process to everyone, sorry clive, your immigration stop, even as an Englishman just got a bit longer because you have to be vetted in the most extreme way.
But the blame for this outcome lies squarely with the establishments of both the Republican and Democratic parties. Our elites have been exposed as empty suits, flailing in response to Trump. The Republicans were too weak and in disarray to stop Trump, with their 16 lame presidential contenders knocked out one by one. They effectively let Trump hijack their party.
The Democratic bigwigs were arguably too strong, maintaining a bureaucratic iron-hold on the nomination process. Very early on, they conceded to the Clinton machine, and all potential contenders were too cowardly to challenge her and point out what was obvious to the world – that the empress had too much baggage. In retrospect, the arrogance of the Democratic elite – nominating a throwback to the 1990s, scandals included – was astonishing.
This actually reminds me of a great quote from the Dark Knight:
" You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand."
-Alfred Pennyworth
d-usa wrote: The evidence is that having x as relatives doesn't mean that you can't be racist against x.
It doesn't matter. It's the old ? When he came for the Muslims I did not speak up because I was Jewish" thing. Jews should be uncomfortable with any politician who normalizes scapegoating.
What’s crystal clear now is that the supposedly mighty US and Western establishments are paper tigers. They have become lazy and arrogant, and they are out of touch with the mass of people; they have lost all sense of purpose. Our political elites can’t even convince people that they have more to offer than a buffoon and two-bit conman with back-of-the-envelope policies. It has never been clearer that we cannot lean on this establishment; it is a completely unreliable alternative to the likes of authoritarians like Trump.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
Possibly not, but when your platform is fear, ignorance and hate, then you get what you vote for
Trump didnt have much substance but sure had a lot of rhetoric.
And Hillary's only substance was Trump Will Push The Button! and Trump is Buddies With Putin. Her messaging was just as negative, if not more because she had to distract from the scum bag she is.
Heh, yeah, these "Trump is running on Haterade" arguments are both amusing and amazing.
I live in PA, and for the last week at least we've been seeing just about a Hillary ad every time any show goes to commercial. I don't think I've learned a single thing about Hillary. Instead we were pounded with how bad Trump is.
The problem is, of course, when you're campaigning to be the guy to go down into the sewer... oh, I mean swamp, to drain it, few care how dirty you are going in.
Because his campaign was based off of hate?
Build that wall, ban those muslims, stop and frisk
Stating he ran his campaign on hate is not a false statement.
I dont believe the KKK endorses people who want peace and equality
So, wanting secure, sovereign borders, and taking measures to prevent anymore Orlandos and San Bernidinos is "preaching hate"?
Sorry, amigo. The world isn't all sunshine and rainbows. Fundamentalist Islam is going full tilt, European nations are having internal issues due to an immigration crisis, and Mexico is in the middle of a drug war that's been slowly spilling over the border. People understand that, and Trump played that to win. Whether or not the status quo will change remains to be seen. I have my doubts anything will, but I could be wrong.
d-usa wrote: The evidence is that having x as relatives doesn't mean that you can't be racist against x.
It doesn't matter. It's the old ? When he came for the Muslims I did not speak up because I was Jewish" thing. Jews should be uncomfortable with any politician who normalizes scapegoating.
No offense, but the logic of that statement requires what I consider a false equivalence: that Judaism, Christianity, Islam and, indeed, all religions are simply interchangeable. Various systems of funny hats, as it were.
It is an attitude that is at odds, ironically, with ancient Talmudic principles and the overwhelming thrust of Jewish Halacha. But the intricacies of Jewish thought on this matter are probably best explored elsewhere.
As a practical matter... well, I suggest that the idea that freedom of religion means that this guy merits no more scrutiny then the Swedish grandmother is a little silly.
Just because of an election the rules of this board with regards to language still apply.
This means, for example, that it is not acceptable to post images with language we do not allow on the site.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
~1.5k
Legion: Dark Angels 
3000
4000 
heap the State was in during the Perdue years.
