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Lord Kragan wrote:

2 years later there's almost nothing left, which is what irks me. Virtually everyone has either rebounded to AoS, moved on to 9th age/KoW or is playing the editions they love. Runewars has nothing to offer to that crowd by now.

And much like some people stick by GW, buying up anything and everything they make, I'm sure many FFG customers will be the same with FFG.

Personally I hope it succeeds the way FFG hope it will.

> I'm sure many FFG customers will be the same with FFG.

i know this is true for boardgamers, but will it be true for the miniatures game? The difference between the boardgames and the miniatures game is that the miniatures game is a "lifestyle" game, meaning that you will sink hundreds of not just dollars, but hours for assembly and painting. I've also read threads on Dakka about popularity of X-Wing vs. Armada, namely that X-Wing is more successful than Armada. This suggests that FFG miniatures players don't have the hundreds of dollars necessary to support a second "lifestyle" game. In contrast, with the non-LCG FFG games, after "only" spending $150+ on a base game and expansion, you're pretty much done with the boardgame and can find another one to pick up.

We'll see! Thankfully, RW isn't being KS'ed, so gamers can let the early adapters empty their wallets first and create the community!

Empty wallets is a relative thing though - considering the thousands (and thousands) that some people pay for picking up every new GW release, I can kind of understand FFG having a stab at it.

If they make a good game.. And some people buy it, and we get some worthwhile community out of it, where is the harm in that?

My brother has this game preordered, hopefully we'll get to try it out soon.

I'm personally a bit shocked they're opening the gates with only two armies. Considering what is already established that they're trying to break into, I think that is really going to hurt them grow to a dominant position. I'm also more than a bit concerned about the Hero characters - that sort of thing drove me away from WHFB, and also spilled over into 40K as "no named characters, no exceptions".

FFG overall, however, has been pretty solid. Their Descent game, with its iffy miniatures, sold very well. X-Wing (& Armada in some ways) has really been one of their defining, shining games - you ought to try and compare it to the utter crap Starship Battles Hasbro shuffled out a few years prior.

I think Runewars will do well, but it will have an uphill battle. We should see improving miniature designs as the line matures, and a solid rules base should help keep up interest.

At the very least, I think it will make the other ruleset stand up and take notice - and perhaps up their game(s).

As others have mentioned, I just don't know who their market for this is.

For a game of massed battles, the boxed is laughably sparse - and their pricing seems completely hatstand when it comes to increasing your army.

For rank and file combat, there's people's existing Warhammer Armies, Kings of War, and Historicals.

For 'hidden orders' - there's X-Wing, and the Dungeon's and Dragons version of Attack Wing.

There's also the concern that despite what they say, we'll find ourselves doing an X-Wing, and having to buy models we don't want in our army in order to make a unit we do want, and have already bought, much better.

FFG's ongoing supply chain woes are another big concern. I dunno about you, but a good slice of my wargames spending is done on impulse. Sure, I might nip down to Darksphere to pick up Shadow War (a planned purchase), but there's always a good chance I might pick up another set or two whilst I'm there. Can't do that if it's not in stock, no?

Maybe it will succeed. I can't comment on the gameplay itself as I've not had a demo - but man, FFG really seem to have picked the steepest possible incline.

 Pacific wrote:
If they make a good game.. And some people buy it, and we get some worthwhile community out of it, where is the harm in that?

No harm, so long as Stormonu and his brother do all the work!

@Stormonu: Looking forward to what you think of the game (and how much it's gonna cost)!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As others have mentioned, I just don't know who their market for this is.

For a game of massed battles, the boxed is laughably sparse - and their pricing seems completely hatstand when it comes to increasing your army.

For rank and file combat, there's people's existing Warhammer Armies, Kings of War, and Historicals.

For 'hidden orders' - there's X-Wing, and the Dungeon's and Dragons version of Attack Wing.

There's also the concern that despite what they say, we'll find ourselves doing an X-Wing, and having to buy models we don't want in our army in order to make a unit we do want, and have already bought, much better.

FFG's ongoing supply chain woes are another big concern. I dunno about you, but a good slice of my wargames spending is done on impulse. Sure, I might nip down to Darksphere to pick up Shadow War (a planned purchase), but there's always a good chance I might pick up another set or two whilst I'm there. Can't do that if it's not in stock, no?

Maybe it will succeed. I can't comment on the gameplay itself as I've not had a demo - but man, FFG really seem to have picked the steepest possible incline.

Yea im not sure on their market. Only so many dollars to go around. When I think board, card, and now dice game I think FFG. They are the leaders on those fields( well second in card as MTG is still the top)

Pretty sure wizards killed off DND attack wing. It did pretty horribly.

If someone likes it, go for it, but I don't see this doing very well. At least well enough to stay around more then a year or so. Two factions at the start and the supply chain for FFG has been the worst the past few games they have done.

They are aiming for casual players with light tactics and a fantasy setting of their own, but the price point isn't there.

I think FFG is still operating very much on a traditional distributor filling shelf space model. The entire point of this game might be so a typical local store doesn't have to look anywhere else if they want a small shelf of miniature gaming products. It's possible that it can sell at barely break even (or even loss) levels and it'll still accomplish FFG's goals of having card and board game shops go with their stuff over other company's products if they decide to try selling miniatures.

The barrier to entry for a retailer will be ridiculously low compared to what GW tries to get new accounts to stock. If you're primarily a magic and pokemon card store that does a reasonable amount of board game and X-Wing sales and you're thinking "Why not fill this extra shelf with something new?", Runewars is just a few line items you add to your next order from a distributor. Existing sales channels, existing relationships. From a company the stores are already familiar with. And FFG's organized play works well for stores.

My initial thoughts were that this was piling into a dying market (ranked up fantasy games) but then I starting thinking this might not actually be about getting massive amount of the product in player's hands, but about filling shelf space with FFG products for larger strategic reasons related to how the typical US based store orders and stocks product. It might only need to sell in small amounts to work. This product line might be a success for FFG if all it does is give stores the ability to say "I already have miniature lines in stock that I'm happy with" when GW's trade sales team calls looking for opportunities.

Very good point! With GW entering the boardgames market, that's a definite strategy. *Now* I recall that a video reviewer commenting on Asmodee's acquisition of companies might be a strategy to create a "one stop shop" of game lines that a Big Box -- and, by extension, smaller retailer -- could order from.

Yeah that may well be the game's saving grace -- I certainly hope so!

I likely imagine that RW is releasing with two factions because the initial wave is intended to perform like an MVP. This way if it does fail losses are considerably less. The question to ask though is what UVPs does RW bring to the table and are those UVPs good enough to make it a success.

Lord Kragan wrote:

jonboyjon1990 wrote:

Mutter wrote:

jonboyjon1990 wrote:

I think the FFG CEO himself said in the GenCon Keynote speech, that this is a game where the rules come first and miniatures come second.

Almost all the people I know bought the X-Wing stuff mainly for the miniatures, rules were only a distant second.
This will not happen with Runewars.

But on the other hand its the great game system that packs out games store every week, huge regionals every month and 8 massive 400+ player tournaments every year.

All I'm saying is that for many GW players - 80-90% of the focus is on the making and painting; on the hobby. Actual playing of the games is an ideal that comes to fruition a few times a year. This game isn't marketed at them. This is for people that want a decent, simple ruleset (that you don't have to pay for), that won't change every year or so and will enable 'lifestyle' gaming.

So how much does FFG pay you to spew this?

THis is pretty funny. considerring that you're unable to let pass even the slightest criticism directed toward AOS, and have genreally acted like a total GW cheerleader


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As others have mentioned, I just don't know who their market for this is.

For a game of massed battles, the boxed is laughably sparse - and their pricing seems completely hatstand when it comes to increasing your army.

For rank and file combat, there's people's existing Warhammer Armies, Kings of War, and Historicals.

For 'hidden orders' - there's X-Wing, and the Dungeon's and Dragons version of Attack Wing.

There's also the concern that despite what they say, we'll find ourselves doing an X-Wing, and having to buy models we don't want in our army in order to make a unit we do want, and have already bought, much better.

FFG's ongoing supply chain woes are another big concern. I dunno about you, but a good slice of my wargames spending is done on impulse. Sure, I might nip down to Darksphere to pick up Shadow War (a planned purchase), but there's always a good chance I might pick up another set or two whilst I'm there. Can't do that if it's not in stock, no?

Maybe it will succeed. I can't comment on the gameplay itself as I've not had a demo - but man, FFG really seem to have picked the steepest possible incline.

yep this smell like a fiasco. Don't think it will srvive more than one or two years

Mutter wrote:

jonboyjon1990 wrote:

I think the FFG CEO himself said in the GenCon Keynote speech, that this is a game where the rules come first and miniatures come second.

Almost all the people I know bought the X-Wing stuff mainly for the miniatures, rules were only a distant second.
This will not happen with Runewars.

Wow, I've passively followed this game for years, and know some friends who have it. I've tried it and it's OK. But this is the very first time I've heard someone say folks bought the game "just for the models"

What do you do with the models? Surely this is a tiny minority of folks who maybe just want an X Wing on their desk, or handing from their ceiling? That folks would buy the models but never try the game honestly never occurred to me!

 streetsamurai wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

jonboyjon1990 wrote:

Mutter wrote:

jonboyjon1990 wrote:

I think the FFG CEO himself said in the GenCon Keynote speech, that this is a game where the rules come first and miniatures come second.

Almost all the people I know bought the X-Wing stuff mainly for the miniatures, rules were only a distant second.
This will not happen with Runewars.

But on the other hand its the great game system that packs out games store every week, huge regionals every month and 8 massive 400+ player tournaments every year.

All I'm saying is that for many GW players - 80-90% of the focus is on the making and painting; on the hobby. Actual playing of the games is an ideal that comes to fruition a few times a year. This game isn't marketed at them. This is for people that want a decent, simple ruleset (that you don't have to pay for), that won't change every year or so and will enable 'lifestyle' gaming.

So how much does FFG pay you to spew this?

THis is pretty funny. considerring that you're unable to let pass even the slightest criticism directed toward AOS, and have genreally acted like a total GW cheerleader


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As others have mentioned, I just don't know who their market for this is.

For a game of massed battles, the boxed is laughably sparse - and their pricing seems completely hatstand when it comes to increasing your army.

For rank and file combat, there's people's existing Warhammer Armies, Kings of War, and Historicals.

For 'hidden orders' - there's X-Wing, and the Dungeon's and Dragons version of Attack Wing.

There's also the concern that despite what they say, we'll find ourselves doing an X-Wing, and having to buy models we don't want in our army in order to make a unit we do want, and have already bought, much better.

FFG's ongoing supply chain woes are another big concern. I dunno about you, but a good slice of my wargames spending is done on impulse. Sure, I might nip down to Darksphere to pick up Shadow War (a planned purchase), but there's always a good chance I might pick up another set or two whilst I'm there. Can't do that if it's not in stock, no?

Maybe it will succeed. I can't comment on the gameplay itself as I've not had a demo - but man, FFG really seem to have picked the steepest possible incline.

yep this smell like a fiasco. Don't think it will srvive more than one or two years

Hey at least my entire activtiy in this site hasn't been: OH MY GAWD THIS WILL BE AWESOME! (Which I've done a few times, though mainly to see melt-downs on other people)

Call me cheerleader, but I do other things aside that (also, you're just jelly of my trademarked pompons) and it's mainly because I'm dead sick of people taking pot-shots at it. "Yes, you don't like it! Now please move along because it's been 2 years already and no need to keep on harping about how you don't like it. We heard it the 1st 10.000 times."

ced1106 wrote:
Very good point! With GW entering the boardgames market, that's a definite strategy. *Now* I recall that a video reviewer commenting on Asmodee's acquisition of companies might be a strategy to create a "one stop shop" of game lines that a Big Box -- and, by extension, smaller retailer -- could order from.

It's how GW spread to North America in the 90s. They had a good variety of products and became *the* single source for miniatures. Distributors like it because any time you consolidate orders, you save on shipping and administration costs. Stores like it because they can use their existing distributor and ordering is easy. And consolidating orders into a smaller number of distributors can give you some wiggle room on discounts and concessions of terms. You'll get far better support from your distributor if you're a six digit account rather than having four or so 5 digit accounts at different sources.

 pancakeonions wrote:


Wow, I've passively followed this game for years, and know some friends who have it. I've tried it and it's OK. But this is the very first time I've heard someone say folks bought the game "just for the models"

What do you do with the models? Surely this is a tiny minority of folks who maybe just want an X Wing on their desk, or handing from their ceiling? That folks would buy the models but never try the game honestly never occurred to me!

Look at all the people who bought the Star Wars micro machines - there was no game attached to that. For some people, these are higher-quality versions of that (like the Black Series) - but then for some its "hey, what's this game it happens to come with?"

As for the cost of Runewars, my brother it getting it with store credit from playing MtG. (In fact, if you happen to know of Bant Amulet, you'll know who he is).





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, something I've just been thinking about... (The Rune Golem triggered a memory)

FFG also produces a tabletop board/battle game called Battlelore. The miniatures for Runewars appear to be better-quality versions of those models (I wonder if they might be usable for Battlelore, as I own a copy of 2E Battlelore).

I wonder if FFG is attempting expand on the popularity of its Battlelore game, and possibly fill what it perceives was a hole made by GW when they axed the massed battle games of WHFB for the skimish-friendly version of AoS. I've always wondered it was a thumb back at GW for pulling the 40K/Old World licenses.

Hmm... From the BGG Battlelore forum, I get the impression that FFG pretty much dumped it. The RW mechanics are different from Battlelore. Would be good for FFG to release these miniatures for BL as well, but I haven't seen any promo materials mentioning BL: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25417/battlelore

Now paint and play those RW miniatures and tell us what you think of the game!!!

With regard to target market, maybe they're also going for the competitive players? Most of the xwing guys i know play it for the tourneys, as did i for a couple of years. I appreciated the tight rules, frequent faqs, quick play compared to 40k, and tourney swag that was nice to have but didn't unbalance the game (wizkids I'm looking at you).

Yeah i bought multiple of every ship released, but 1. Waves are announced months in advance so i could budget properly. 2. Youre able to build any squad for any faction you like, and 3. It keeps the meta fresh. I know that last point may be controversial, many people i know didnt like that previous ships could be made obsolete, and thats fine. In that respect xwing is more like a ccg then a ttmg, i liked how a new wave would shake up the meta, i loved list building around the new stuff trying out new combos and strats. And since all factions get updated, there's something for everyone. Worst case, i get a cool looking ship and no painters remorse.

Probably won't get into RW for the same reason i got out of xwing, lack of time. But i really enjoyed my time with xwing and now and then I bust out my ships for some casual games.

 pancakeonions wrote:

Wow, I've passively followed this game for years, and know some friends who have it. I've tried it and it's OK. But this is the very first time I've heard someone say folks bought the game "just for the models"

What do you do with the models? Surely this is a tiny minority of folks who maybe just want an X Wing on their desk, or handing from their ceiling? That folks would buy the models but never try the game honestly never occurred to me!

I work in a computer games studio, so the guys I work with are all digital core gamers, not so much analogue gamers. When X-Wing hit, almost a dozen of them bought ships, two have bought basically everything that FFG ever made for the game, even all the epic ships, that normal gamers only get (if at all) for the cards.
One of those two even has a lot of Armada stuff sitting on his desk.
It's mainly all for the shelf, to look pretty, yeah. Sometimes they game with the stuff, but that's secondary.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As others have mentioned, I just don't know who their market for this is.

For a game of massed battles, the boxed is laughably sparse - and their pricing seems completely hatstand when it comes to increasing your army.

For rank and file combat, there's people's existing Warhammer Armies, Kings of War, and Historicals.

For 'hidden orders' - there's X-Wing, and the Dungeon's and Dragons version of Attack Wing.

There's also the concern that despite what they say, we'll find ourselves doing an X-Wing, and having to buy models we don't want in our army in order to make a unit we do want, and have already bought, much better.

FFG's ongoing supply chain woes are another big concern. I dunno about you, but a good slice of my wargames spending is done on impulse. Sure, I might nip down to Darksphere to pick up Shadow War (a planned purchase), but there's always a good chance I might pick up another set or two whilst I'm there. Can't do that if it's not in stock, no?

Maybe it will succeed. I can't comment on the gameplay itself as I've not had a demo - but man, FFG really seem to have picked the steepest possible incline.

Ok, I have to jump in here...

Laughably sparse content? It's 100 of 200 point standard build for $50 a player. Not sure what you are expecting here, but compare to other rank and file systems both 15mm and 28mm and this comment just doesn't make sense.

there is an definitive gap for rank and file army systems at the moment that Rune Wars may fill. I don't see a historical company with FFG's tournament support, player base, etc. and KoW is a very simple rule system and many move on from quickly.

If you haven't played the game, why assume that x-wing and other hidden orders even compare to the dial aspect of Rune Wars? They don't.

Read up on the release format -- faction specific and neutral cards are in a human army expansion. The equivalent expansion for the undead will have their faction cards and the same neutrals. They listened to their customer base on this. Give FFG some credit.

I understand their supply chain woes can be very frustrating, but by this logic we may as well not attempt to play FFG's games due to the concern.

I'm in here to encourage those interested in the Rune Wars to take some of these assumptions with a huge grain of salt and attempt to give it a try.

I played two demos and knew some of the rules before sitting down. It captures the rank and file essence of spirit incredibly well, and the dial system is vastly different from X Wing. Won't be the only thing I play, but it stands up to some serious competition. My friend and I start assembly tomorrow and that means other good games are getting bumped off the hobby desk for Rune Wars.

And what happens when Unit C is underwhelming, but is fixed by buying Unit H - a unit which otherwise doesn't fit your style?

Having it all in one faction is one thing. Trying to make units better but only by buying another unit isn't.

The price point is too damned high. They're trying to go up against very well established wargames - and ones where you can use a variety of manufacturer's models with ease - by using proprierty bases. £22.95 is the discounted price for four quite shonky looking Cavalry models. Four. Models. Are they made out of crack cocaine at that price?

How many of those would I need for an average sized unit?

The core game I can get for £79.95 discounted. That's way too much for the contents.

So whilst I say nothing about the gameplay - I've not played it, I can't see my locals getting into this because the entry price to find out if in fact it's any good is ridiculous.

And even if you do, their supply issues and not uncommon production delays can kill any excitement for a new unit - because you've no idea when it's coming out.

As I said - the game could well succeed, and genuinely good luck to it. I just don't know where they're going to find a big enough market to support it. As you said, it won't be the only thing you play - but the price seems to suggest they've not taken that thought into consideration.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And what happens when Unit C is underwhelming, but is fixed by buying Unit H - a unit which otherwise doesn't fit your style?

Having it all in one faction is one thing. Trying to make units better but only by buying another unit isn't.

The price point is too damned high. They're trying to go up against very well established wargames - and ones where you can use a variety of manufacturer's models with ease - by using proprierty bases. £22.95 is the discounted price for four quite shonky looking Cavalry models. Four. Models. Are they made out of crack cocaine at that price?

How many of those would I need for an average sized unit?

The core game I can get for £79.95 discounted. That's way too much for the contents.

So whilst I say nothing about the gameplay - I've not played it, I can't see my locals getting into this because the entry price to find out if in fact it's any good is ridiculous.

And even if you do, their supply issues and not uncommon production delays can kill any excitement for a new unit - because you've no idea when it's coming out.

As I said - the game could well succeed, and genuinely good luck to it. I just don't know where they're going to find a big enough market to support it. As you said, it won't be the only thing you play - but the price seems to suggest they've not taken that thought into consideration.

Seriously. Don't you play GW's AoS?
Doesn't everything you've said apply to GW?

Power creep. Check.
Massive price. Check.
Supply problems. Check.

GW produce games (outside of things like Bakugan) with the worst power creep requiring purchase of new units. That's how they keep making profit.
Price? You complain about 4 cavalry for 23 quid, yet 5 GW blood knights cost 61 quid.
Supply? GW create this problem themselves with a limited quantity when they release to force immediate purchase by those that want it.

I find it interesting that several of the AoS die hards have come in here bad mouthing a game prior to its release, yet spend most of their time on this forum defending GW from any tiny slur.

I'm not going to buy Runewars myself. I was initially tempted, but the thought of another game requiring a ton of cards wasn't for me. I already collect/play X-wing, Devil's Run and Walking Dead which are all card heavy.

When anybody starts comparing RW to AoS/GW, you've already lost ...

That's NOT the standard you should be aiming for.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And what happens when Unit C is underwhelming, but is fixed by buying Unit H - a unit which otherwise doesn't fit your style?

Having it all in one faction is one thing. Trying to make units better but only by buying another unit isn't.

The price point is too damned high. They're trying to go up against very well established wargames - and ones where you can use a variety of manufacturer's models with ease - by using proprierty bases. £22.95 is the discounted price for four quite shonky looking Cavalry models. Four. Models. Are they made out of crack cocaine at that price?

How many of those would I need for an average sized unit?

The core game I can get for £79.95 discounted. That's way too much for the contents.

So whilst I say nothing about the gameplay - I've not played it, I can't see my locals getting into this because the entry price to find out if in fact it's any good is ridiculous.

And even if you do, their supply issues and not uncommon production delays can kill any excitement for a new unit - because you've no idea when it's coming out.

As I said - the game could well succeed, and genuinely good luck to it. I just don't know where they're going to find a big enough market to support it. As you said, it won't be the only thing you play - but the price seems to suggest they've not taken that thought into consideration.

Seriously. Don't you play GW's AoS?
Doesn't everything you've said apply to GW?

Power creep. Check.
Massive price. Check.
Supply problems. Check.

I'm going to jump a bit here:

-Power Creep: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Man, this is a good joke I never tire of hearing. Strongest army in the game? Tomb Kings, who have THE oldest rules, and they are followed by Skryre who, again, have had no new rules since launch. Latest Stormcast release? Nerfed them. Vanguard-Palladors are inferior to dracoths, older models. Is it really power creep when this happens?

-Massive price. Yes, expensive (too expensive in plenty of cases), but they've been lowering in multiple occasions with reboxes.

-Supply problems. Not really? I mean, yeah, some things run out of stock but they are generally solved fairly quickly unless it's a thing they don't sell almost at all (and this is going just by the web-store not their physical stores)
You aren't inherently wrong but on some aspects you're not quite right. And the fact that you go cherry pick cases is also funny: 5 caledor princes and cold one riders of de, which are superior sculpts, cost 20 quid, 10 chaos knights cost 35 quid for 10 models who, again, are far better than the knights in the box. Saurus knights cost 20 quid for 8 guys!
And powercreep in AoS is a joke.

Yes I do play AoS, and a lovely game it is too.

The powercreep? Only an issue if you mainly play in Tournaments, and your sole concern is placing highly.

Massive Price? Nice cherry picking....let me show you Karic Acolytes. 20 for £30. That's a full unit right there.

Compare to Runewars - £25 for 12.

How about 5 Hexwraiths/Black Knights for £20? Would you rather have those, or four dodgy looking Knights for £25 undiscounted?

Now, aesthetically I feel GW's models are far superior sculpts, but that's all subjective. But for a visual game experience such as a tabletop wargame, aesthetics count for a lot. That's why we paint our models. That's why people have endless debates over what constitutes an acceptable tabletop standard. That's why people frown when someone tries to use Green Army Men as Guardsmen.

GW's supply? Stuff goes out of stock from time to time. Why, we don't know, but paranoid theories abound. It all comes back in stock within a couple of weeks though. FFG? Yeah, stuff is unavailable for a long old time.

When GW say a unit is out on the 8th April, it's out on the 8th April. FFG? Not so much.

When GW release an army, it's all there within typically 2-3 weeks.

FFG? Keep on the drip drip drip release - who knows if your favourite unit is about to crash out of usefulness in the next release wave, only to have the wave after that feature a card to put them back on the top of the pile - provided you keep on coughing up. That's engineered powercreep I thoroughly object to, because the card based nature of X-Wing shows it doesn't matter a damn if you're good with a Wave 1 fleet, sooner or later you need to start buying again just to keep your hand in, whether or not you use those new ships you've just had to buy to keep said hand in.

FFG are releasing this into an existing market, and are coming up from nothing. They're going up against people's existing Warhammer Armies, whether they still play 8th, 9th Age, Age of Sigmar or even all three. They're going up against Kings of War, an already popular alternative it would seem to GW's own rules set, yet one which doesn't seem to do anywhere near the business of the 'apparently awful' AoS.

If Runewars had prices closer to X-Wing than Armada, I could see it having a real chance. But it doesn't. And we know Armada isn't selling anywhere near X-Wing's volumes as a result.

Had a second look at it on Marco's video and some other assembly and unboxing videos (probably won't have a real life encounter due to the EU price, which is my main cause of discontent with the game ;( ):

1.Models - really nice. IMO nicer and cleaner aesthetics than GW's fantasy models to which they're being compared. Really easy to build and the way they're assembled makes it very easy to paint them without building them. Excellent work on both miniature design and casting techniques. I'd choose these any day of the year for gaming and just having them around before GW's models which are now delving deep into diorama class design...

2. I like how the squad rules scale with additional bases added. The clicking system is very neat. Originally I was against it due to the difficulty of lining your units with enemies' ones on the charge, but I see that the unit expandability really compensates for this. Thumbs up. Still not a fan of dials, but this is something FFG games nowadays come with so nothing out of the ordinary.

Overall I think that this game offers both deeper and much easier gameplay to get into (and perhaps also alot cleaner one) than AoS (which is the other new big fantasy game on the market right now), which despite its "only 4 page of rules" (bullcrap) has proven for me harder and harder to explain to people as time goes by - I blame the rules layout now. Now lower the price by 25% please, release 2 more races by the end of the year (it'll get very dull with only two available right now) and let me shake your hand FFG

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Massive Price? Nice cherry picking....let me show you Karic Acolytes. 20 for £30. That's a full unit right there.

Truth to be said RW's units do the same job as the acolytes kit which just throws more identical models to fool you up into buying them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

How about 5 Hexwraiths/Black Knights for £20? Would you rather have those, or four dodgy looking Knights for £25 undiscounted?

I'd have the "dodgy" looking knights provided they were more reasonably costed. Thanks.

 CoreCommander wrote:
Had a second look at it on Marco's video and some other assembly and unboxing videos (probably won't have a real life encounter due to the EU price, which is my main cause of discontent with the game ;( ):

1.Models - really nice. IMO nicer and cleaner aesthetics than GW's fantasy models to which they're being compared. Really easy to build and the way they're assembled makes it very easy to paint them without building them. Excellent work on both miniature design and casting techniques. I'd choose these any day of the year for gaming and just having them around before GW's models which are now delving deep into diorama class design...

2. I like how the squad rules scale with additional bases added. The clicking system is very neat. Originally I was against it due to the difficulty of lining your units with enemies' ones on the charge, but I see that the unit expandability really compensates for this. Thumbs up. Still not a fan of dials, but this is something FFG games nowadays come with so nothing out of the ordinary.

Overall I think that this game offers both deeper and much easier gameplay to get into (and perhaps also alot cleaner one) than AoS (which is the other new big fantasy game on the market right now), which despite its "only 4 page of rules" (bullcrap) has proven for me harder and harder to explain to people as time goes by - I blame the rules layout now. Now lower the price by 25% please, release 2 more races by the end of the year (it'll get very dull with only two available right now) and let me shake your hand FFG

I think the scaling system is a solid one too. I'm sure plenty of people will like it. Just that I HIGHLY doubt it will get much from the old WHFB crowd, if at all.

ced1106 wrote:
Hmm... From the BGG Battlelore forum, I get the impression that FFG pretty much dumped it. The RW mechanics are different from Battlelore. Would be good for FFG to release these miniatures for BL as well, but I haven't seen any promo materials mentioning BL: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25417/battlelore

Now paint and play those RW miniatures and tell us what you think of the game!!!

I own everything possible for Battelore 2ED. Its a very well done and balanced game. It being their own created game, they didn't kill it. It has been a little while since an expansion, but they released a TON for it very quickly after the base game. FFG is known for not allocating resources very well, as they always jump on the new hottest thing. Im positive all the battlelore guys moved to RW.

The future of all of it though does hang on RW. If its popular, there is a good chance they will fill out battlelore with the elves faction.

If its not popular, they can go back to battlelore and buff it out more since it has a good following. eitherway, I see it being good future for battlelore

And as to the comment of using these parts for battlelore, no way. Battlelore is about 15mm or so. and the quality is good. Its not a table top minis game so I don't expect it to be GW quality. Soft plastic guys are fine for it.

> Im positive all the battlelore guys moved to RW.

Wait. What? Where in BGG did you read threads saying the BL players are moving to RW?

> It has been a little while since an expansion

How long? I got the impression from BGG that they haven't released an expansion for a long time?

> I see it being good future for battlelore

How so? What support has FFG given for BL that suggests they will continue to support it?

I'm trying to find out from this thread how much support FFG has put out for BL 2E. Doesn't sound like much? : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/551272/biggest-disappointment-my-gaming-life/page/4

I don't know if anyone is still subscribed to this thread, but I just read back over it all again. It was a great discussion at the time and reflecting back on it now is rather enlightening.

FFG did end up rounding out the Dwarves. But they also rounded out the humans (which was great) before finishing up the line (which was devastating!).

Second edition has come out since then, changed many of the core rules and didn't get past three factions either before being put out to pasture... it is a frustrating journey that Battlelore took in the end.

For me first edition was the better of the two, but I realise that second edition did change things that (although I personally didn't like at all) brought some others more enjoyment. But even they are now out of luck with the line being sold off in the holiday sale.

I still hold out hope for someone to handle a Fantasy C&C game properly...

ced1106 wrote:
> Im positive all the battlelore guys moved to RW.

Wait. What? Where in BGG did you read threads saying the BL players are moving to RW?

> It has been a little while since an expansion

How long? I got the impression from BGG that they haven't released an expansion for a long time?

> I see it being good future for battlelore

How so? What support has FFG given for BL that suggests they will continue to support it?

I'm trying to find out from this thread how much support FFG has put out for BL 2E. Doesn't sound like much? : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/551272/biggest-disappointment-my-gaming-life/page/4

I don't know if anyone is still subscribed to this thread, but I just read back over it all again. It was a great discussion at the time and reflecting back on it now is rather enlightening.

FFG did end up rounding out the Dwarves. But they also rounded out the humans (which was great) before finishing up the line (which was devastating!).

Second edition has come out since then, changed many of the core rules and didn't get past three factions either before being put out to pasture... it is a frustrating journey that Battlelore took in the end.

For me first edition was the better of the two, but I realise that second edition did change things that (although I personally didn't like at all) brought some others more enjoyment. But even they are now out of luck with the line being sold off in the holiday sale.

I still hold out hope for someone to handle a Fantasy C&C game properly...

1. Should have clarified, by battlelore guys I ment the team at FFG. The designers/devs shifted to do RW

2. The undead army was released in OCT of 2015. Two neutral packs came out AUG of 2015IPAD game in June of 2015 Humans and Demons expantion large packs in June of 2015 also.

So to the point, yea, its been over a year since anything new, but people are so hooked like meth heads on new releases they need something every month or they claim FFG killed it off. Its a board game, so I don't expect rapid releases for a board game. With the custom mission maker they have online for free, it has a limitless range of possibilities as it is.

Also on BBG they stated in a current interview when asked, they declined to say anything on Battlelore. If it was dead, FFG comes out early and tells people its dead.

The future is good because of my points. If RW does well, the world will draw people in to more of the Runebound games. If it does bad, they can refocus on battlelore.

They own the game, it isn't like the star wars license where they need to keep pumping stuff out. Look at all FFGs other board games, this one has a good bit of expansions which is a lot of a board game