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Its better at killing daemons, harlies, eldar farseers and other power armour marines with invuns but bad vs armour 2 and high toughness gribbles

 deffrekka wrote:
Its better at killing daemons, harlies, eldar farseers and other power armour marines with invuns but bad vs armour 2 and high toughness gribbles

Yes, but a lightning claw is cheaper and is about as good for killing those targets and vastly better against targets without invulnerables.

Except daemons, harlies and other power armoured dudes with invuns will most likely kill your 47pt dude too :p


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I didnt say it was a good weapon it looks nice as in the model for it, but rules wise... Meh... I would have preferred a str buff or rending

 deffrekka wrote:
Anyone else modified there artemis? His little sword really bugged me so i swapped it for a 30k one and i have a hatred for unhelmeted heads.. so he got a helmet

I'm keeping him as/is, in an attempt to create a new character "Watch Captain Glory Hog". Not gonna be his actual name, but he steals glory and copied Artemis' idea of poison flamers and stasis grenades. He wil lead a team that rivals my Kill Team Kyral.

The sod.

Probably stores the things he captures with the grenade as trophies. Like pokemon, only more donkey-cave-ish.

Inventing the character reminded me of this: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Galactic_Partridges

Guess he's a Galactic Partridge now.

But who will store him.. when he catches himself...?!

 Bulldogging wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
Could even ally in a ravenwing strike force with black knights modelled like death watch bikers to throw stasis nades around to allow our guys to strike first?


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Im guilty of splashing out £20 on 5 frag cannons from bits and kitz.. as that gives me 8 with my 3 death masque sets

I really wanna use the infernus heavy bolter but each time i look at it the frag cannon just beats it for 5pts more... :/

Yeah it really makes you scratch your head. The only time you should use an infernus is if you don't have a frag cannon bit to model and you really want a special weapon. I don't mean this to be insulting to them, sincerely I don't, but I wonder how the hell they come up with point values.

I have a friend who picked out the IHB to be on his model. Because screw a 2-shot assault lascannon. Tbf, it is going in my "fluffy" kill team.


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 deffrekka wrote:
But who will store him.. when he catches himself...?!

His name will long be remembered in the halls of glory.

Someone probably has an anti-stasis key. Likely a servitor.

An IG grenade launcher would make a good frag cannon. Or the FW Proteus missile launcher.

 deffrekka wrote:
Anyone else modified there artemis? His little sword really bugged me so i swapped it for a 30k one and i have a hatred for unhelmeted heads.. so he got a helmet

I have an absolute disdain of unhelmeted Marines (and anything in general actually) so I don't blame you for doing this at all.

I like unhelmeted marines. I figure that we are playing the artistic version, not the realistic version of future history. And if I am Artemis, then you bet I want the artist to paint me with my lovely firm jaw and blond locks visible.

I will take the Infernus over the frag cannon in a bunch of situations. It also synchronizes with the main squad armaments much better.

In ITC you can also use it against invis units as well as when you are overwatching.

I think with deathwatch its about specializing squads to go after specific targets. If you are doing the formation 1-2 troop hunters with the infernus wouldnt be bad.

 Leth wrote:
I will take the Infernus over the frag cannon in a bunch of situations. It also synchronizes with the main squad armaments much better.

In ITC you can also use it against invis units as well as when you are overwatching.

I think with deathwatch its about specializing squads to go after specific targets. If you are doing the formation 1-2 troop hunters with the infernus wouldnt be bad.

If you're expecting the squad to live after the drop off, the Infernus does help when you need to attack units not next to you.

Can also help when on the march generally. Or if facing a horde and you are defending stuff.

 Selym wrote:
Can also help when on the march generally. Or if facing a horde and you are defending stuff.

With Splitfire coming from a Biker you could hit units way afar while the other pelt someone nearby with Shotguns or Bolters.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Can also help when on the march generally. Or if facing a horde and you are defending stuff.

With Splitfire coming from a Biker you could hit units way afar while the other pelt someone nearby with Shotguns or Bolters.

If you put a bike along with some Vanguard Veterans and a Shotgun kill team, you could fire the Shotguns at soft targets and the bike's TL Bolter at a harder target and charge it with the Vanguard Veterans.

A nice thing about bikers to consider as well is that if you are running the deathwatch detachment they make it so when you deep strike you will auto pass dangerous, preventing any unfortunately losses to terrain. In addition bringing split-fire to the unit is clutch with an elite army such as the deathwatch. You cant afford to spend an entire unit trying to finish off that last troop on the objective, but throw a shot or two at him from two units should make a huge difference.

Also, despite the number of power swords they give you.....its gonna be lightning claws all over the place since most units cant get a second CC weapon

Editted to correct for the below post

One of the conclusions I have reached is that deathwatch are basically wasted spending their time objective sitting. If you want them to be a main force you are going to need to invest in OS from allies.

To that end I am looking at Imperial Guard platoons as a solid, especially home area, OS units. I think this should work to an extent, about 1200 or so on DW and then 650 on IG. What deathwatch lack in numbers can be easily supplemented by IG, and they are good at getting some volume of fire. You can also take advantage of the 4+ invul relic in a blob, sit on 1-2 objectives and send out deathwatch to focus 100% on killing stuff.

 Leth wrote:

Also, despite the number of power swords they give you.....its gonna be lightning claws all over the place for the bikers since they dont have two weapons.

Bikers can't have lightning claws.

 Rbb wrote:
An IG grenade launcher would make a good frag cannon. Or the FW Proteus missile launcher.

I actually ordered some Proteus-II missile launchers top use as my frag cannons.

Whats peoples opinion on a pair of ASS dreads to sit with 2 furor stalker kill teams on the backfield?

I know dreads are crap but might aswell use the ones given to us

Alright so it's obvious as far as the punching goes Deathwatch does now lack in any way, however we encounter a problem in that with lower models counts our survivability is reduced.

So the great question we should discuss is how we counter this, I have only a few ideas, but am new to marines so others may have better ideas.

1. A storm shield or two should be mandatory in almost every squad, even ranged ones for that juicy 3++, still not going to increase the life expectancy by a great deal but stop ap2 ruining our day quite so much.

2. A lib in every squad finishing for invis/sanctic/some other ability. Problem is of course the random chance of it all, curse all primaris powers being combat powers.

Honesty I can think of much else and that's worries me. I realise this army is meant to punch hard an eliminate the enemies major threats before they can retaliate but if we fail at that we lose.

What else can we do people? Spam land raiders? Spam the Corvus? Are there any fortifications that might help? Is there an ally that might aid us?

---------------------

Also a question.....if we form one of the killteams, can we then attatch independent characters to it? Or does the kill team 'max 10 models' rule override that. I'm in the second camp but a mate of mine is in the former and I can see his point.



Cheers,

Qwerty

I think you can still attach characters, just IC's bought for the squad cant leave it...?

And im thinking for survivability just add more vets, like a squad of 10 bolter shotty vets does a lot of damage to a wide array of stuff (bar vehicles and if the combo is allowed) same with stalker squads.

Only problem ive found so far is your walords squad, if he could take a stalker with the bane bolts he'd join a unit of stalkers or missile vets but he cant, so you want a beat stick squad which quickly adds up to like 400pts :(


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But it all depends on your meta, my group has scat bikes, white scar bikers and cents, necrons, tau and daemons.

So a furor stalker team firing dragonfire has a good chance of just removing bikes and other troops on a 6


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And you need 5's and 6's with a reroll to wound bikers with dragon fire rounds so half the wounds will be 6's

I really dig the idea of 3 drop pods total w/ first turn angelis beacon usage to deep strike land raider.

I've started building my vanguard vets, and the loadout I have so far for the five man squad is two guys with HTH and two guys with TH and SS (to help protect the two HTH guys...), and I'm not sure what my fifth guy should be....

I'm thinking either:

a- Dual pIstols, to soften the targets a bit, grav and plasma comes to mind...
b- Another shield, with either a claw, a hammer, or a pistol...
c- Something else that will be more useful...

 ChaosDad wrote:
I've started building my vanguard vets, and the loadout I have so far for the five man squad is two guys with HTH and two guys with TH and SS (to help protect the two HTH guys...), and I'm not sure what my fifth guy should be....

I'm thinking either:

a- Dual pIstols, to soften the targets a bit, grav and plasma comes to mind...
b- Another shield, with either a claw, a hammer, or a pistol...
c- Something else that will be more useful...

Rule of cool, but I suppose a Relic Blade and Storm Shield can be fairly effective. You aren't missing out on any attacks due to Two-Handed. Plus, a Str 6 AP 3 group of attacks at initiative is nothing to turn your nose up at, especially when everyone else is striking at I1.

I am still on the fence if i should get 2 or 3 Corvus Blackstars.. Is there a need to run 3 really?

Chaosdad that's the same load out and problem I had, I ended up going another thunder hammer but with a plasma pistol as well. I might be swapping that out though, not sure. I will say it's a really really expensive you it points wise, I worked mine out to be around 500pts for 10 guys....

Meh_ glad someone liked the idea, I'm fairly convinced it's one of the stronger openings we have. Also I would say I would get only 2 in around 1.5-2k points. That way you use death from the skies and if they have no flyers your reserves get the +2 and auto come in turn 2, as well as get bonus to the front skips attacks on ground targets.

The only reason I could see to have 3 is larger games or if you really really like the bonuses for one of the 3 ship formations.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Rule of cool, but I suppose a Relic Blade and Storm Shield can be fairly effective. You aren't missing out on any attacks due to Two-Handed. Plus, a Str 6 AP 3 group of attacks at initiative is nothing to turn your nose up at, especially when everyone else is striking at I1.

They can't have relic blades.

Qwerty2jam wrote:
Alright so it's obvious as far as the punching goes Deathwatch does now lack in any way, however we encounter a problem in that with lower models counts our survivability is reduced.

So the great question we should discuss is how we counter this, I have only a few ideas, but am new to marines so others may have better ideas.

1. A storm shield or two should be mandatory in almost every squad, even ranged ones for that juicy 3++, still not going to increase the life expectancy by a great deal but stop ap2 ruining our day quite so much.

2. A lib in every squad finishing for invis/sanctic/some other ability. Problem is of course the random chance of it all, curse all primaris powers being combat powers.

Honesty I can think of much else and that's worries me. I realise this army is meant to punch hard an eliminate the enemies major threats before they can retaliate but if we fail at that we lose.

What else can we do people? Spam land raiders? Spam the Corvus? Are there any fortifications that might help? Is there an ally that might aid us?

---------------------

Also a question.....if we form one of the killteams, can we then attatch independent characters to it? Or does the kill team 'max 10 models' rule override that. I'm in the second camp but a mate of mine is in the former and I can see his point.



Cheers,

Qwerty

I would say that the Max10 rule applies, out of caution and drop pods.

As for survivability, a KT should not be an army, imo. You build one for a purpose, and then execute that purpose as soon as possible. Preferably by drop pod if possible. Failing drop pod shenanigans, I wouldn't shell out for a transport. The Corvus is a nice flyer, but it comes in on T2 at best, and will need a turn of maneuvering your team into position. Go for the footslog, but build the kill team to be able to deal with 24"-36" range engagements. Take librarians for general support purposes, or use Strategium Command to get a 6+FnP. Shields and/or terminator bodyguards are a likely necessity here.

A small 6 man (Vets and IC) kill team can hide in cover more easily than most things. Find a way to pick where the battles happen, and use them sparingly.

As for allies, this might be the one time IG allies are helpful. It's all well and good shooting at a 6-man T4 3+ unit, but it's going to be hard to concentrate when there's pieplates all up in your everything.

Qwerty2jam wrote:
Chaosdad that's the same load out and problem I had, I ended up going another thunder hammer but with a plasma pistol as well. I might be swapping that out though, not sure. I will say it's a really really expensive you it points wise, I worked mine out to be around 500pts for 10 guys....

Meh_ glad someone liked the idea, I'm fairly convinced it's one of the stronger openings we have. Also I would say I would get only 2 in around 1.5-2k points. That way you use death from the skies and if they have no flyers your reserves get the +2 and auto come in turn 2, as well as get bonus to the front skips attacks on ground targets.

The only reason I could see to have 3 is larger games or if you really really like the bonuses for one of the 3 ship formations.

Yeah, too bad I dont have any drop pods... Someday someday.

Also, I think Ill try to magnetise some of the veterans to have boltgun/ccw and special weapon / melee options. Out of 3-5 kits there'll be a lot of spare shoulder pads and hands - it should be quite easy to have f.e. an ultramarine with frag cannon and shotgun options depending on what i want to run.

 ChaosDad wrote:
I've started building my vanguard vets, and the loadout I have so far for the five man squad is two guys with HTH and two guys with TH and SS (to help protect the two HTH guys...), and I'm not sure what my fifth guy should be....

I'm thinking either:

a- Dual pIstols, to soften the targets a bit, grav and plasma comes to mind...
b- Another shield, with either a claw, a hammer, or a pistol...
c- Something else that will be more useful...

I think dual hand flamers or infeno pistols would work quite well in squads of 2 or 3 hoping around the board harrassing units, if they get shot at your loosing 90pts instead of your big squad of vets who could be like 250pts, and its also easy to sneaky cap with them as they can easily hide out of line of sight so people could forget about them and then they can burst out from there safe spot and be a nuisence


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dual plasma pistols or grav pistols arent worth it for 30pts per model as a single grav/plasma gun has the same shots at that range for 15pts less just bar the ability to charge after (which wont do much anyway without power weapons) so might aswell go for the more exotic ranged weapons or go pure CC instead.



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what are people thinking for a warlord outside of artemis? I would love to have the watch master but the lack of options (even a jump pack id love to have) is abit annoying for the deathwatch.... same with the chaplain :(

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Rule of cool, but I suppose a Relic Blade and Storm Shield can be fairly effective. You aren't missing out on any attacks due to Two-Handed. Plus, a Str 6 AP 3 group of attacks at initiative is nothing to turn your nose up at, especially when everyone else is striking at I1.

They can't have relic blades.

Crap. You are right. Well then...I dunno, a Power Maul and a Shield. Something to strike at initiative that packs a punch.