Our Watch Begins: Deathwatch Tactics

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**Selym**

I'm taking a libby, for fluff reasons more than anything. He has a multitude pf psychic powers that he swaps around inconsistently as feth. Adding traits on him just adds to the amusement.

**deffrekka**

Selym wrote:
I'm taking a libby, for fluff reasons more than anything. He has a multitude pf psychic powers that he swaps around inconsistently as feth. Adding traits on him just adds to the amusement.

i've debated 2 lvl 2 libbies to sit with my 2 Furor kill teams but i do like my chappies (dark angel player...

) but im stuck tryna design a cost effect squad for a chappie

**Selym**

Artemis and a shotgun squad. Use it to stasis bomb an enemy HQ more easily.

**deffrekka**

But what if your not using artemis

the tournies around my area dont allow named characters or relics unfortunately

Automatically Appended Next Post:
and D is nerfed to str 10

**Crimson**

I think artificer armour, thunder hammer (or a power fist), storm shield, jump pack, and a combi-weapon of your choice would be a pretty decent loadout for a captain.

**Selym**

deffrekka wrote:
But what if your not using artemis the tournies around my area dont allow named characters or relics unfortunately

Automatically Appended Next Post:
and D is nerfed to str 10

Attach him to an allied unit maybe?

Whatever you do, take Bane Bolts of Eryxia. Not because they're any good, but because they are cool.

**deffrekka**

Selym wrote:
deffrekka wrote:
But what if your not using artemis the tournies around my area dont allow named characters or relics unfortunately

Automatically Appended Next Post:
and D is nerfed to str 10
Attach him to an allied unit maybe?

Whatever you do, take Bane Bolts of Eryxia. Not because they're any good, but because they are cool.

I'd love to take bane bolts... but on a stalker bolter and make like a power armoured (helmeted) telion

but we cant get a stalker on a HQ

**Aijec**

Just wanted to add my two cents after I've reviewed the codex and planned out multiple armies.

I'm really feeling that they are a wildly aggressive army that is dependent on the alpha strike.

I think they do that really well and have a lot of different options. I plan on running mine with a hunters eye dev cent squad for an ignores cover option and a third dp.

What I do think they lack are good objective holding units. All of their choices are so combat ready and expensive you need them to be lifting their weight every single turn.

That means mobility is a must.

I think SM scouts compliment deathwatch perfectly and allow for the option of a null deploy strategy by planting a single squad out of los of the opponent and outflanking the rest as our dp's come in turn one.

Things I love from the codex:
Watch Master is a beast for his points
Frag Cannon, flexible powerful and dynamic
Special ammo is very effective, especially the ap3 one
Drop Pods are the perfect delivery system
The 4+ immobile relic
The Beacon Angelis, I expect this to be abused or nerfed
Vets
Including a single jinking skilled rider bike in the aquilla for split fire
The Mission Tactic rule

Things I would avoid or I think are less efficient than others give them credit:
Corvus Blackstar
Terminators, overcosted
Infernus Bolter although its badass
Xenophase blade
Heavy Thunder hammer is just win more
decking out a single unit with a ton of upgrades when they already have insanely good bolters
Black Spear Formation, auxillary choices blow and the benefits are marginal

The frag cannon is fantastic for its point as all of its modes are competitive. Imagine dropping two drop pods full of frags on a deathstar with invis and a 2+ save.

Say we keep it conservative and only hit 4 people with each frag.

8 frags x 4 hits per frag x assault 2 = 64 hits
Say we wound on 2's against toughness 4

thats 42.6 wounds of which 8.5 will be ap2

that's OVER 11 dead terminators (including invuls) WITH invisibility on.

Not including the bolter shots from said squads.

Did I mention that number is assuming our vets and their dps are obsec? If they are from a watch formation the number of dead targets spikes as we start rerolling wounds.

**Cephalobeard**

Quick question, more regarding Wall of Death than anything.

Since Frag Cannons/Shotguns have the Template rule, will both weapons be able to make use of Wall Of Death?

Also, to clarify, is it 1d3 wounds flat, or 1d3 per model with "Template" etc

**Aijec**

Cephalobeard wrote:
Quick question, more regarding Wall of Death than anything.

Since Frag Cannons/Shotguns have the Template rule, will both weapons be able to make use of Wall Of Death?

Also, to clarify, is it 1d3 wounds flat, or 1d3 per model with "Template" etc

It's per template weapon. Also important to note that it's only one d3 even though the template is assault 2.

You'll be able to choose whatever mode you want to use like any other shooting attack.

**Cephalobeard**

Not too shabby, means Naked Shotgun squads will be able to defend themselves from an assault with 5d3 Auto wounds to the enemy.

**Aijec**

Cephalobeard wrote:
Not too shabby, means Naked Shotgun squads will be able to defend themselves from an assault with 5d3 Auto wounds to the enemy.

Auto hits then roll to wound

Still really strong as you said

on average we're getting 6 hits with 4 frag cannons with wall of death

thats 5 wounds with one being ap2

2-3 dead marines with just the frag cannons!

**kronk**

Selym wrote:

As for survivability, a KT should not be an army, imo. You build one for a purpose, and then execute that purpose as soon as possible. Preferably by drop pod if possible.

This is my take on them. I have a Space Marine army: Black Templars.

What can I do with a handful of Death Watch units that my Templars can't. That's what I'm looking to do with this book, not make 100 new death watch dudes.

(Although, truth be told, I know I will!)

**ChaosDad**

Hmm... call me stupid, but I don't get how to use a killteam - which are supposed to stay a coherent unit - where there are footsloggers, bikes and jump infantry... My initial analysis and thoughts is that it can be used to extend the reach of a squad as it changes direction of faces different foes, since the faster troops can move from the back to the front, for instance...

What is it that I'm not getting?

I'm quite tempted to make my army a CAD, where the vanguards and the bikes are free to roam the table without worrying and foot traffic, and where the footies can be delivered by drop pod as nature intended...

**Leth**

ChaosDad wrote:
Hmm... call me stupid, but I don't get how to use a killteam - which are supposed to stay a coherent unit - where there are footsloggers, bikes and jump infantry... My initial analysis and thoughts is that it can be used to extend the reach of a squad as it changes direction of faces different foes, since the faster troops can move from the back to the front, for instance...

What is it that I'm not getting?

I'm quite tempted to make my army a CAD, where the vanguards and the bikes are free to roam the table without worrying and foot traffic, and where the footies can be delivered by drop pod as nature intended...

Benefit from specials rules that each of the 1 man units brings to the table such as fearless or split fire, additional specialized combat roles like the vangaurd get upgrades for slightly cheaper since you are not paying as many points for them for shooting benefits

However while I am thinking about it I think themtically allied space marines with LSS and scouts would be baller for objective sitting. I think deathwatch get so much from their formation as well as cost too much to be reliable objective sitters.

That being said I am planning to bring an IG allied detachment at this time. 50 man conscript squad, 40-50 man platoon, couple cheap special weapon squads(Objective sitting) and a Wyvern or two. Give one of them the 4+ Invul relic while all of the deathwatch are 100% dedicated to offense. in a 50 man conscript squad with a 4+ invul and potentially a priest they could hold up a knight or two for the entire game while also tanking a decent number of shots. It brings the board presence and the bodies that deathwatch are lacking.

All of my builds are assuming things like ITC rules as well as GW FAQS

**Gree**

I'm going to grab an allied force for my Marines. An Aquila Kill team running 4 Frag Cannons. Might mount up in a Corvus Blackstar or Drop Pod.

Adding Terminator or Librarians seem the best option for Kill-Teams. Vanguards and Bikes seem like they would waste the extra movement. I think I might add a Cyclone Terminators to the squad for the additional AP3.

I think I'll be grabbing a Librarian or Chaplain for leading my Kill-Team. I would have run a Relic Blade and Storm shield for my Watch-Captain, but apparently that can't be done. The Watch Master is nice, but limited in what he can take. The general lack of Eternal Warrior access also hurts this Codex selection. My vanilla Marines run beatsticks better with Captain Lysander or Chapter Master on bike with Shield Eternal.

Now the only real hard part is getting extra Frag Cannons as Grytt is hard to find on ebay and Frag cannon bits will probably be in great demand.

**casvalremdeikun**

Gree wrote:
I'm going to grab an allied force for my Marines. An Aquila Kill team running 4 Frag Cannons. Might mount up in a Corvus Blackstar or Drop Pod.

Adding Terminator or Librarians seem the best option for Kill-Teams. Vanguards and Bikes seem like they would waste the extra movement. I think I might ass a Cyclone Terminators to the squad for the additional AP3.

I think I'll be grabbing a Librarian or Chaplain for leading my Kill-Team. I would have run a Relic Blade and Storm shield for my Watch-Captain, but apparently that can't be done. The Watch Master is nice, but limited in what he can take. The general lack of Eternal Warrior access also hurts this Codex selection. My vanilla Marines run beatsticks better with Captain Lysander or Chapter Master on bike with Shield Eternal.

Now the only real hard part is getting extra Frag Cannons as Grytt is hard to find on ebay and Frag cannon bits will probably be in great demand.

At that point, you might as well just run a Black Spear Strike Force. You have the Watch Commander(Watch Captain), Core(Aquila Kill Team), and Auxiliary(Corvus Blackstar). Might as well get some additional benefits over the Allied Detachment.

**Gree**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Gree wrote:
I'm going to grab an allied force for my Marines. An Aquila Kill team running 4 Frag Cannons. Might mount up in a Corvus Blackstar or Drop Pod.

Adding Terminator or Librarians seem the best option for Kill-Teams. Vanguards and Bikes seem like they would waste the extra movement. I think I might ass a Cyclone Terminators to the squad for the additional AP3.

I think I'll be grabbing a Librarian or Chaplain for leading my Kill-Team. I would have run a Relic Blade and Storm shield for my Watch-Captain, but apparently that can't be done. The Watch Master is nice, but limited in what he can take. The general lack of Eternal Warrior access also hurts this Codex selection. My vanilla Marines run beatsticks better with Captain Lysander or Chapter Master on bike with Shield Eternal.

Now the only real hard part is getting extra Frag Cannons as Grytt is hard to find on ebay and Frag cannon bits will probably be in great demand.
At that point, you might as well just run a Black Spear Strike Force. You have the Watch Commander(Watch Captain), Core(Aquila Kill Team), and Auxiliary(Corvus Blackstar). Might as well get some additional benefits over the Allied Detachment.

I probably should have specified that I was running a Black Spear force, considering how easy it is to put in. I mean ''Allied'' more as a secondary force to my main Space Marine army.

Although at first I'll probably run an Aquila Kill Team by itself at least at first until I can finish buying the Blackstar.

**Crazyterran**

Aijec wrote:
Just wanted to add my two cents after I've reviewed the codex and planned out multiple armies.

I'm really feeling that they are a wildly aggressive army that is dependent on the alpha strike.

I think they do that really well and have a lot of different options. I plan on running mine with a hunters eye dev cent squad for an ignores cover option and a third dp.

What I do think they lack are good objective holding units. All of their choices are so combat ready and expensive you need them to be lifting their weight every single turn.

That means mobility is a must.

I think SM scouts compliment deathwatch perfectly and allow for the option of a null deploy strategy by planting a single squad out of los of the opponent and outflanking the rest as our dp's come in turn one.

Things I love from the codex:
Watch Master is a beast for his points
Frag Cannon, flexible powerful and dynamic
Special ammo is very effective, especially the ap3 one
Drop Pods are the perfect delivery system
The 4+ immobile relic
The Beacon Angelis, I expect this to be abused or nerfed
Vets
Including a single jinking skilled rider bike in the aquilla for split fire
The Mission Tactic rule

Things I would avoid or I think are less efficient than others give them credit:
Corvus Blackstar
Terminators, overcosted
Infernus Bolter although its badass
Xenophase blade
Heavy Thunder hammer is just win more
decking out a single unit with a ton of upgrades when they already have insanely good bolters
Black Spear Formation, auxillary choices blow and the benefits are marginal

The frag cannon is fantastic for its point as all of its modes are competitive. Imagine dropping two drop pods full of frags on a deathstar with invis and a 2+ save.

Say we keep it conservative and only hit 4 people with each frag.

8 frags x 4 hits per frag x assault 2 = 64 hits
Say we wound on 2's against toughness 4

thats 42.6 wounds of which 8.5 will be ap2

that's OVER 11 dead terminators (including invuls) WITH invisibility on.

Not including the bolter shots from said squads.

Did I mention that number is assuming our vets and their dps are obsec? If they are from a watch formation the number of dead targets spikes as we start rerolling wounds.

So you are using ITC? Cause most of us don't get to hit invisible units with templates...

**Aijec**

Crazyterran wrote:
Aijec wrote:
Just wanted to add my two cents after I've reviewed the codex and planned out multiple armies.

I'm really feeling that they are a wildly aggressive army that is dependent on the alpha strike.

I think they do that really well and have a lot of different options. I plan on running mine with a hunters eye dev cent squad for an ignores cover option and a third dp.

What I do think they lack are good objective holding units. All of their choices are so combat ready and expensive you need them to be lifting their weight every single turn.

That means mobility is a must.

I think SM scouts compliment deathwatch perfectly and allow for the option of a null deploy strategy by planting a single squad out of los of the opponent and outflanking the rest as our dp's come in turn one.

Things I love from the codex:
Watch Master is a beast for his points
Frag Cannon, flexible powerful and dynamic
Special ammo is very effective, especially the ap3 one
Drop Pods are the perfect delivery system
The 4+ immobile relic
The Beacon Angelis, I expect this to be abused or nerfed
Vets
Including a single jinking skilled rider bike in the aquilla for split fire
The Mission Tactic rule

Things I would avoid or I think are less efficient than others give them credit:
Corvus Blackstar
Terminators, overcosted
Infernus Bolter although its badass
Xenophase blade
Heavy Thunder hammer is just win more
decking out a single unit with a ton of upgrades when they already have insanely good bolters
Black Spear Formation, auxillary choices blow and the benefits are marginal

The frag cannon is fantastic for its point as all of its modes are competitive. Imagine dropping two drop pods full of frags on a deathstar with invis and a 2+ save.

Say we keep it conservative and only hit 4 people with each frag.

8 frags x 4 hits per frag x assault 2 = 64 hits
Say we wound on 2's against toughness 4

thats 42.6 wounds of which 8.5 will be ap2

that's OVER 11 dead terminators (including invuls) WITH invisibility on.

Not including the bolter shots from said squads.

Did I mention that number is assuming our vets and their dps are obsec? If they are from a watch formation the number of dead targets spikes as we start rerolling wounds.

So you are using ITC? Cause most of us don't get to hit invisible units with templates...

If you aren't using the competitive standard format then who cares about balance? ya i'm referring to the itc.

I would suggest the majority of tournaments run with comped rules, probably a majority of them use the ITC. tough to tell.

**Crazyterran**

Only one or two use ITC around here, it's arbitrary rules changes and knee jerk refs to a few factions killed a lot of good will, as far as I can tell.

It'll be interesting to see how the ITC reacts when the FAQ goes live, rather than just draft form.

Edit: doesn't adepticon and Nova use their own house rules, too, rather than ITC? It's not like ITC is standard across everywhere, so assuming it is is... Silly.

**paintatdawn**

Is anyone making the units from the Death Masque campaign book?

At first I didn't think much of them. Squad Crull didn't seem too fancy mainly sporting boltguns, and Watch Sergeant Crull randomly has the hatred special rule. Squad Galatael seemed alright with 2 heavy thunder hammers, but again only Watch Sergeant Galatael has a random special rule (precision strikes). So at first I really wasn't sure about them, but the formation is where it all comes together, and it's not bad!

Each character has their own special rule, Artemis has 6+ FNP. Crull has Hatred, and Galatael has Precision Strikes. All of these become a 6" buff in the formation.
- Artemis grants Squad Crull FNP within 6" (and he's likely to join them anyway).
- Crull grants his whole squad Hatred (Artemis too), and anyone else within 6" (which isn't bad considering they get a fair amount of attacks being veterans and all).
- Galatael grants his whole squad Precision Strikes, and anyone else within 6" (which again isn't bad considering there's a couple of heavy thunder hammers in there!).

Not only that, everyone get's to re-roll to wound and armour penetration rolls of 1. Everyone. All the time.

So what do you guys think?

**casvalremdeikun**

I'll make Nihilus and Artemis (durr...). Nihilus can just be weapon swapped for any of the other weapon options if I want. The other squads are actually not that terrible, but not at all what I am looking for when it comes to my Deathwatch.

**paintatdawn**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
I'll make Nihilus and Artemis (durr...). Nihilus can just be weapon swapped for any of the other weapon options if I want. The other squads are actually not that terrible, but not at all what I am looking for when it comes to my Deathwatch.

Well that's a given, which is why I didn't mention them..

I think most people will overlook the other two units, but the formation can always be deployed as a single Kill Team and add bodies to a Black Spear Strike Force. I'm also looking at the models from an individual point of view, as I'll mix and match stuff with the Overkill set if I want to make other Kill Teams. Just curious to see what people thought about them.

**Selym**

I'm not making them either. I plan to sell the Harlies (too much effort to make imo), and the DW units are being fitted for fluff and kitbashed. I'm not even making Vanguard with their sprue.

Artemis and Nihilus are good though; the former for a glory-hogging idea-stealing donkey-cave from the Galactic Partridges, and the latter because he's a Dreadnought with benefits.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not making them either. I plan to sell the Harlies (too much effort to make imo), and the DW units are being fitted for fluff and kitbashed. I'm not even making Vanguard with their sprue.

Artemis and Nihilus are good though; the former for a glory-hogging idea-stealing donkey-cave from the Galactic Partridges, and the latter because he's a Dreadnought with benefits.

**paintatdawn**

The Vanguard are quite tricky, and I really wasn't sure about making them either. It seems like you would never really take a unit of 5 on their own, and you'd probably only use a few in an Kill Team. Maybe it would be worth kitting some out individually to add to Kill Teams as and when you need them?

**Wolfblade**

It's a shame the blackshield can't get any upgrades, seems like a waste considering the only reason to take it is for the better CC ability. (assuming it goes the way of command squad apoths)

**Scott-S6**

He can get upgrades, just not the xenophase, heavy thunder hammer or heavy weapons.

**paintatdawn**

Wolfblade wrote:
It's a shame the blackshield can't get any upgrades, seems like a waste considering the only reason to take it is for the better CC ability. (assuming it goes the way of command squad apoths)

Can the Blackshield definitely not have any upgrades? My codex is at home so I can't check, but I don't remember seeing it listed with certain wargear, so surely it can take anything the other squad members can? He's still a veteran and part of the veteran squad after all. I'd have thought he'd have a Boltgun by default after being upgraded, and you then replace it. Like I said, I can't check it right now, but from what I can remember the wording would suggest you can change his wargear.

**Scott-S6**

Melee, Ranged and Special weapons are available to all models.

He is not a veteran so cannot take HTH or heavy weapons