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 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
Necron Team (This exact simple list won our store's Kill Team tournament last year)

Triarch Praetorians
7x Praetorians (ld and 3 specialists)

Really?
That won?
I mean, yes, T5 3+ 5+++ jump infantry with 12" S5 AP2 guns/CC attacks is pretty cool, but... a squad of only 7 guys was able to beat everything else everyone had?
...
How?

You list all that stuff off like it's really trivial, thats a pretty solid setup to have 7 and that's not even counting that some will have specialist abilities.

Oh, I know well how good Praets can be, I'm just surprised they were able to do THAT WELL against some of the other lists out there. I'm especially curious about how it would handle something like a spam list that might easily have triple or more the number of models on the table.

Speaking from a Guard perspective, lasguns only get you so far, especially when target has FNP (I'm assuming that's what 5+++ means)

You have to remember, most hordes will be using S3-4 weaponry tops, with a few special weapons that a list like that could pick out with ease. Hunt down the enemy leader next, and then all you have to do is force a break check.

However something like infiltrate the camp would really hurt the necrons list of course. At least a few would make it past, so it'd be down to figuring out a way to slow down the horde player, perhaps even something as insane as just placing your models in chokepoints and going full 300. After all, tables should be thick with terrain, so you could force your opponent through chokes or make them struggle through difficult terrain

Personally, I'd prefer to at least replace 2 of those Praets with 3 Tomb Blades with Scopes, but that's just me...

Infiltrate the camp is a fun mission, players in the upcoming tourney have a 50% chance of getting that mission on the day itself, unless they prefer to play it.

I doubt we'll be seeing any hordes come into play with the current selection of sign ups: Necrons, Tau (already mentioned going in suit heavy), Inquisition, Deathwatch and my own Militarum Tempestus. Though the sixth slot is still open, we'll see who snatches that one up.

Had a fun idea for an ork kill team. Our group is going to do it where we get to pick our warlord traits given how big of a swing they can cause.

Warbiker squad: Nob Warbiker w/power klaw, x8 war biker boyz -197pts

Nob: Been there, seen it, done it (Indomitable - fearless)

Warbiker: Weapon spec. Reaping volley

Warbiker: Guerilla spec. Stealth

Warbiker: Dirty fighter. exploit weakness (rending))

Playing Chaos, and Daemonkin specifically, I find it INCREDIBLY hard to come up with anything for Kill Team because everything is so damn expensive (and for KDK I can't take squads of 5 and I have to pay for MoK). So everything I think of it seems to be just completely outclassed by anyone who even remotely tries to put together a kill team (i.e. anything more than a regular tactical squad/fire warrior team/etc.)

It sucks, I wanted to pitch to my GW the idea of a small Kill Team campaign but not when I can't think of anything I could field that would make me want to play it in myself.

WayneTheGame wrote:
Playing Chaos, and Daemonkin specifically, I find it INCREDIBLY hard to come up with anything for Kill Team

Flesh Hounds?
Bikes?
Cultists?
Guys in Rhino?
I would have thought CSM & Daemons had a fairly decent selection of things that would work well in KT? (even in you did have to pay the Khorne tax)

 skoffs wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
Playing Chaos, and Daemonkin specifically, I find it INCREDIBLY hard to come up with anything for Kill Team

Flesh Hounds?
Bikes?
Cultists?
Guys in Rhino?
I would have thought CSM & Daemons had a fairly decent selection of things that would work well in KT? (even in you did have to pay the Khorne tax)

Pretty sure you can't take just Flesh Hounds because they are all beasts. I have to check more, at just 200 points I find it's like one squad of guys and that's it, which seems fine but not sure with everything people seem to be fitting in.

There is no Kill Team restriction about taking beasts, at least not in the 6E version.

Kill Team is frequently just a single a squad.

Is there anything about this new version of Kill Team which prevents building teams from FW books?

I'm thinking Renegades and Heretics.

Thanks

 adamsouza wrote:
There is no Kill Team restriction about taking beasts, at least not in the 6E version.

Kill Team is frequently just a single a squad.

Maybe I'm thinking of something else then, maybe you can't give specialists to beasts.

I know KT is frequently a single squad, but I am seeing a lot of lists that look fairly nasty when you bring just a regular squad. Might have to just "man up" and give it a whirl.

Hmm, new KT does say beasts and swarms can't be leaders or specialists... but apart from the "must have at least 4 non-vehicle models" restriction, is there anything saying you can't just take all beasts and forgo having specialists? (though I guess you probably wouldn't be able to get out of taking a leader).

Even if you can't, just take some Cultists with your Khorne Dogs. That list would still not be a pushover by any means.

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Is there anything about this new version of Kill Team which prevents building teams from FW books?

I'm thinking Renegades and Heretics.

Thanks

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. R&H, Elysians, Krieg, and Corsairs are all fair game.

Now that I think about this Corsairs actually have a lot of tools, between four small-minimum-squad infantry units with lots of small arms/special weapon options, jetbikes, Dedicated Transport Venoms, and the move-shoot-move War Walker.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Our group is going to do it where we get to pick our warlord traits given how big of a swing they can cause.

My group is doing this right now, it's working just fine. They're all so different that we figure some kill teams are going to have a harder time making use of some of them if rolled randomly. Only hiccup we've had with it was my friend was using the Outflank leader trait, and we rolled Infiltrate the Camp and he became the Attacker. Not to worry, he just picked another trait.

 skoffs wrote:
Hmm, new KT does say beasts and swarms can't be leaders or specialists... but apart from the "must have at least 4 non-vehicle models" restriction, is there anything saying you can't just take all beasts and forgo having specialists? (though I guess you probably wouldn't be able to get out of taking a leader).

In the very same bullet point that says you must have four non-vehicle models, it also says those four must become your leader and specialists.

Also, not taking specialists or a leader would break a few of the game modes.

Ah, okay, no pure beast lists.
Still,
Flesh Hounds + Cultists can be pretty good. Just gotta figure out the best ratio (do you want as many FH as you can get away with, or would you want to stick some better weapons (eg. Flamer, Shotgun, Autoguns) in with slightly buffed up Cultists?)

Alternatively, what about a pure Biker list for KDK?
Mobile, tough, shooty, choppy. All things that go well in KT.

 skoffs wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
Necron Team (This exact simple list won our store's Kill Team tournament last year)

Triarch Praetorians
7x Praetorians (ld and 3 specialists)

Really?
That won?
I mean, yes, T5 3+ 5+++ jump infantry with 12" S5 AP2 guns/CC attacks is pretty cool, but... a squad of only 7 guys was able to beat everything else everyone had?
...
How?

Praetorians are hard as nails, dude. In a regular game that can be a mess to deal with, and in Kill team they are unstoppable. I believe he gave one of them bonus range, one feel no pain, and one haywire attacks in case S5 wasn't enough.

T5 3+ 5+++ (and in one case fnp 5+ as well) with S5 AP2 shooting on WS4 BS4 AND S5 AP2 cc attacks crushed everything.

Battlesuits and firewarriors
Space marines and landspeeder
3 tomb blades and a ton of flayed ones
Death company jump packs
Inquisition classic team
Guard vets with chimera
3 scatbikes with guardians

Along a few other teams I can't remember, it just steamrolled. Never lost a match.

I recently played a kill team game at 250 points. It was pretty interesting. I took DW squad Dontas, Edryc Setorax and Jetek Suberei. Rodricus Grytt was my weapons specialist with reaping volley. Drenn Redblade was my close combat specialist with Killer Instinct. Edryc had Promethium charges because who doesn't want ignore cover grenades.

Pretty solid build and I had a lot more special rules since everyone is basically a specialist already and now I just gave them more rules. Rodricus with reaping volley is nasty. He was my VIP almost every game.

Mr ghoti wrote:

Spoiler:

 skoffs wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
Necron Team (This exact simple list won our store's Kill Team tournament last year)

Triarch Praetorians
7x Praetorians (ld and 3 specialists)

Really?
That won?
I mean, yes, T5 3+ 5+++ jump infantry with 12" S5 AP2 guns/CC attacks is pretty cool, but... a squad of only 7 guys was able to beat everything else everyone had?
...
How?

Praetorians are hard as nails, dude. In a regular game that can be a mess to deal with, and in Kill team they are unstoppable. I believe he gave one of them bonus range, one feel no pain, and one haywire attacks in case S5 wasn't enough.

T5 3+ 5+++ (and in one case fnp 5+ as well) with S5 AP2 shooting on WS4 BS4 AND S5 AP2 cc attacks crushed everything.

Praets very well may be hard as nails, but WS4 BS4 T5 3+ 5++ isn't exactly rare for Necrons (like half the book has those stats).
I'm trying to figure out what 200 points of pure Praetorians would bring to the table that equal points of similar spec units (hard, fast, killy) would not.
They've all got one thing they're excellent/great/good/par at ... I guess it's the added CC capability pushes them over the edge?
(still think a mix of 5 Praets+3 TB would be superior)

Also, I'm confused why someone would intentionally give FnP to a Necron that naturally comes with RP. FAQ states the two abilities do not stack. It's one or the other, not both.

White Scars seem to have a decent number of options and advantages in Kill Team. Here's my plan, based on my model availability:

5 x Scouts - 84
- Camo cloaks
- 4 x sniper rifles
- Missile launcher

3 x bikes + attack bike - 113
- Multi-melta

Having the multimelta and a missile launcher and krak grenades may be overkill - I'll have to try it out and see. It does have good range, survivability and mobility, though the number may be a little low. They could also suffer in buildings or ruins - not the bikes' preferred terrain choice!

Other options include swapping the bikes for a couple of landspeeders, or dropping the scouts for a much larger squad of bikes. I should probably look at getting my Landspeeder Storm together and painted as well - that could be a very nice addition at this points level.


Chaos also have plenty of options, although a lot of things would be a challenge due to cost. Probably the scariest thing I can think of is:

10 x Cultists - 30

5 x Chaos Spawn - 150

15 models, 25 wounds (15 of them at T5), and the best ones are also fearless. The spawn have the strength to take most vehicles in close combat, although would suffer against sentinels. The biggest weaknesses are probably running up against an Instant Death specialist, or any thing that is faster them such as bikes or jetbikes...

For a slightly more balance force, Chaos Marines are OK but not outstanding. Only getting access to a heavy weapon at 10 men is a pain, but the autocannon seems like a good kill team option, threatening both vehicles and infantry. Chaos Space, coming in at 30 points for one, also seem like a good top-up here:

10 x Chaos Space Marines|| - 170
- Autocannon
- Meltagun

1 x Chaos Spawn - 30

The biggest problem here is probably the lack of mobility - fast or long-ranges armies could cause a lot of trouble.

Spawn may struggle against Sentinels, but they also have a good chance of keeping it tied down in combat, thus keeping it from being useful elsewhere.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Is there anything about this new version of Kill Team which prevents building teams from FW books?

I'm thinking Renegades and Heretics.

Thanks

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. R&H, Elysians, Krieg, and Corsairs are all fair game.

Now that I think about this Corsairs actually have a lot of tools, between four small-minimum-squad infantry units with lots of small arms/special weapon options, jetbikes, Dedicated Transport Venoms, and the move-shoot-move War Walker.

Reading over Doom of Mymeara for KT I remembered that all Corsair detachments require a Prince...and KT Detachments do not have a HQ slot. I am sure you could get almost anyone to agree to overlook that one rule...but going by the book it would seem you cannot take Corsairs in KT...

Svane Blackfang's Pack

Lone wolf; pair of wolf claws = 50 (leader)

5 Grey hunters; 4 bolters, 1 plasmagun = 85

5 Blood claws; 4 CCW+BP, 1 flamer = 65


Specialists: feel no pain (flamer guy), preferred enemy (plasmagunner), haywire (random bolter guy) in case of vihicles, otherwise shred (on random claw).
The good thing about space wolfies (and particularly lone wolves) is that literally all of the leader's traits are at least good, and 1st, 3rd, and 6th are like daaaayum dat's gud

Thought of this, seems like it might work and be fluffy:

Khorne Daemonkin - "The Red Dawn Uprising"
8x Cultists, "The Cult of the Red Dawn" w/Autopistol and CCW - 58
8x Chaos Space Marines, "The Manflayers" w/Bolt Pistols, CCWs, 1x Meltagun - 140 (Leader = Aspiring Champion)

Have not given thought to specialists honestly, although 100% certain it would be on the CSMs. Honestly would have liked to give the Champion something special, but not enough points. *grumbling* lousy GW not giving Mark of Khorne for free */grumbling*

I guess technically speaking, since KDK rules aren't in effect anyways in Kill Team you could do it with standard CSM, drop the squad to 7 and get an upgrade on the Champion, but that's unfluffy and IMHO not in the spirit of the game to do so.

WayneTheGame wrote:
8x Cultists, "The Cult of the Red Dawn" w/Autopistol and CCW - 58
8x Chaos Space Marines, "The Manflayers" w/Bolt Pistols, CCWs, 1x Meltagun - 140 (Leader = Aspiring Champion)

It kinda lacks speed...
You might drop the Cultists to bump the Marines up and give them a Rhino... but that wouldn't exactly be fluffy.

Yeah that's true. I think personally if I would do anything with kill team I would bump it up very slightly to 250 points instead of 200. Same rules and everything just tiny bit more. In my case I could then add a rhino and get that upgrade for my Champion that I want.

@skoffs

I'm probably mistaken then. It WAS a year ago. I ran the tomb blade/flayed one list. I played his list the first round and got trounced. I came in second as I won every other match, but his list was just efficient at pinpointing what could feasibly hurt him, take it out, and then rely on his insane (for Kill team standards) durability to systematically remove models left and right.

Mr ghoti wrote:
his list was just efficient at pinpointing what could feasibly hurt him, take it out, and then rely on his insane (for Kill team standards) durability

Heh, interestingly enough, of all the T5 3+ models Necrons have, Praetorians actually have some of the worst survivability.
- Destroyers have jump-shoot-jump and range to keep them alive longer.
- Tomb Blades have range and jink.
- Wraiths and Lychguard have 3++ inv saves.
In fact, the reason most Necron players tend to not take Praets in normal lists is because they're considered kind of a glass cannon (not helped by the fact that you have to get danger close to be effective)... but if he's figured out a way to make them shine, hey hey! more power to him!

TL;DR- they're good, I'm just surprised to hear they did as well as they had.

Do henchmen count as troops (because they do follow the same '1 HQ, 2 troops' FOC?) or as elites?

They are elites, as that's the slot the occupy over at the Inquisition codex army list IIRC.