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I am super jazzed to see this. I was thinking of a genestealer cult list but this has me. The allure of a demon prince primarch is too strong to ignore. Sign me up.
I was also extremely impressed by GW's reaction. Many political campaigns have struggled to spin a leak like that and GW did it in less than a couple hours and with incredible cheekyness.
I swore off GW for years but in the last month have got back in a big way. All of business decisions in the last 6 months or so make me feel like this is a company I can once again support.
Well done.

Very nice looking. I've gotten rid of my Chaos models (All I have now is the one free from WD) but am glad to see them getting both a new large Lord of War, but Rubric marines. I'm glad to see Tzeentch getting some love instead of Nurgle and Khorne.

I'm now curious what the Lord of Change kit will look like- presumably the wings and feet will be similar to Magnus, and the head(s) will look like the one on Archaon's mount.

It makes sense to release this kit- sales will do well enough, and it is not really different in size or likely price from Nagash, Archaon, or Alarelle.

And maybe we will get lucky and the next daemon primarch will be Fulgrim in snake form to give Slaanesh some love finally.

Kendo wrote:
I am super jazzed to see this. I was thinking of a genestealer cult list but this has me. The allure of a demon prince primarch is too strong to ignore. Sign me up.
I was also extremely impressed by GW's reaction. Many political campaigns have struggled to spin a leak like that and GW did it in less than a couple hours and with incredible cheekyness.
I swore off GW for years but in the last month have got back in a big way. All of business decisions in the last 6 months or so make me feel like this is a company I can once again support.
Well done.

I agree. The internet finesse they exhibit is almost startling.
People still dislike the prices, but until GW decides to make less detailed models, you are going to see them remain as the highest ticket models in wargaming. Not that thats a particularly bad thing, as long as you make it easy to get into.
The more GW changes to a friendlier marketing plan, the more they resemble drug dealers.
You give em a taste for cheap, and then when they are hooked, let em run wild.
XD

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i5mELg-TkA8/UkuWkXVIp7I/AAAAAAAAIXM/G5II4Q3cPD0/s1600/Breaking+Bad.jpg

Someone had to post it eventually

He is still the Red King to me ^^

 Nactor wrote:

He is still the Red King to me ^^

Repetition doesn't make a bad joke better...

 Gamgee wrote:
I find it funny how Genestealer Cults and Deathwatch had way more excitement than this. The model looks good, but I'm just not interested in chaos so this holds no interest to me. It's an ominous sign for chaos. Sort of like getting the black spot put on you.

For me it's more the vague sense of impending dread at the future of the fluff that this model implies. They're actually doing it, they're bringing Primarchs back, and there's no way to do that without A; completely, and I mean fundamentally changing the background material, not just in terms of the events that constitute the "present day" 40K, but in terms of tone and themes, or B; making their return such an anticlimactic squelchy wee wet fart that they might as well not have bothered.

I like 40K, not Horus Heresy 2: Less Talented of the Studios Boogaloo. Mechanicus, GSCult, Harlequins, Deathwatch, apparently now even SoB - these are the sorts of things that made me and a lot of others fall for 40K as a setting in the first place, so the last thing I want now we finally have the chance to play them and mess about with such great models is for GW to turn 40K into Power Rangers or whatever AoS-esque monstrosity results from this move.

EDIT: And for my money, his shouty-scrunchy face makes him look like a DBZ villain

To play devils advocate, Yodhrin, *technically* the daemon primarchs have always been around in 40k.

I do share some of your misgivings about the execution, though bear in mind I'm still a bit 'off' that the veil was pulled back from the Heresy, so I am possibly just a cantankerous old stick-in-the-mud!

On topic model looks ok to me, personally doubt that I'll ever take the plunge but that's more space and chosen armies than the model itself. I do know at least one friend who's "no more new stuff" policy could be facing it's sternest test yet.

Pilum wrote:
To play devils advocate, Yodhrin, *technically* the daemon primarchs have always been around in 40k.

I do share some of your misgivings about the execution, though bear in mind I'm still a bit 'off' that the veil was pulled back from the Heresy, so I am possibly just a cantankerous old stick-in-the-mud!

On topic model looks ok to me, personally doubt that I'll ever take the plunge but that's more space and chosen armies than the model itself. I do know at least one friend who's "no more new stuff" policy could be facing it's sternest test yet.

*ahem*

 Hive City Dweller wrote:


One thought I'm having right now is: It's very possible that the new chaos will no longer be a single CSM codex, but instead will be broken up into seperate legion codicies, the same way space marines are broken into chapters, perhaps each having it's own unique models and of course primarch. That would be unbelievably good

This would be unbelievably good because....?

In 3rd edition I could play 9 legions with a codex half the size of a modern one.

I know, was broken blablabla but regardless the balance (that can be fixed by competent/caring designers) the amount of good pers book decreased. I cannot grasp why GW dilutes armies in many codices (IG/MT, Skitarii/Mech) and we happily clap our hands.

Speaking of the model itself, is not bad but I feel people saying it looks like an action figure. Personally, I am way more impressed by releases like the Genestealers or the Skitarii than by this kind of stuff.

Finally, this remembers me the coming of the Nagash model for WHFB. It could not be the same overdesigned mess, but could herald similar events.

I will scan and post Magnus' Epic rules later today

Pilum wrote:
To play devils advocate, Yodhrin, *technically* the daemon primarchs have always been around in 40k.

I do share some of your misgivings about the execution, though bear in mind I'm still a bit 'off' that the veil was pulled back from the Heresy, so I am possibly just a cantankerous old stick-in-the-mud!

On topic model looks ok to me, personally doubt that I'll ever take the plunge but that's more space and chosen armies than the model itself. I do know at least one friend who's "no more new stuff" policy could be facing it's sternest test yet.

It's not the Daemon Primarchs specifically that are at issue, it's that them getting models removes the last shred of wilful self-delusion I could muster that Sad Panda, Atia etc were wrong about Loyalist Primarchs returning. The worst they can do by bringing back Magnus is screw up the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, which is regrettable but hardly setting-ending. The implications of the Loyalists returning though...that's not a 40K I have any interest in. It would shatter the Imperium probably causing another Heresy-esque civil war and a descent into horrible, overwrought, End Times-esque storylines that rob the setting of one of its most defining charactertistics(the sense of impending doom - a sword that's already been shoved through the top of your head isn't a Sword of Damocles any more), or else would require a fundamental tonal shift to a more positive, optimistic view where the Imperium actually has a chance at victory. Plus it would put even more focus on Space Marines generally and the "big four" particularly(or three, rather, assuming they don't have Sanguinor pull a Scooby Do moment and peel off the mask to reveal he was Big Papa Baal all along).

Warhams-77 wrote:
I will scan and post Magnus' Epic rules later today

Whao, wait, what?!??!?!

Throw a bone about some of them if your going to say that! Lol

 Lockark wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
I will scan and post Magnus' Epic rules later today

Whao, wait, what?!??!?!

Throw a bone about some of them if your going to say that! Lol

Bolded the important bit. The beam of change was pretty nasty...

Oh I'm not disagreeing Yodhrin. Just couldn't resist a little nitpicking!

That said - I have chosen to be rather more optimistic, or at least cautiously so. I'll wait and see the execution of it. They could evolve into symbolic figures only, though obviously if there are models they will be out there and they will appear on the table in *cough* "historical re-enactments". I can afford to be blasé here though as my group tends towards the self-policing regarding that sort of thing (ie yes fair enough mate, you brought the big toy for a laugh and caught me out. Well done, just not all the time, eh? And I'll get you back eventually!).

Ineteresting to me, though, is seeing all the old Epic primarchs again is that if they've given Magnus the more 'mainstream' demon look now, if they'll shake Angron's form significantly to provide that differentiation.

I don't know how I am going to afford all this, but it is a wonderful release. I love the Magnus model and the TS's sprue looks equally good. I can see my Thousand sons force becoming apocalyptic in size just to accommodate all these reinforcements.

Well done GW.

 Yodhrin wrote:
... a sword that's already been shoved through the top of your head isn't a Sword of Damocles any more...

I almost want to sig that. That perfectly captures the issue with moving 40K forward with returning (Loyalist) Primarchs.

Respectfully, I disagree.

40k needs a kick up the arse, the rules are stagnant and bloated. But similarly the lore has been stuck at 10 minutes to midnight for a decade or more - shoving it forward 9 minutes and 45 seconds to the final cataclysmic conflict, the cadian gate wide open, chaos ascendant and at the very gates of Sol, the Xenos rising across the galaxy.

Good times. very good times ahead!

P.S the Emperor protects!

 Col.Gravis wrote:
Respectfully, I disagree.

40k needs a kick up the arse, the rules are stagnant and bloated. But similarly the lore has been stuck at 10 minutes to midnight for a decade or more - shoving it forward 9 minutes and 45 seconds to the final cataclysmic conflict, the cadian gate wide open, chaos ascendant and at the very gates of Sol, the Xenos rising across the galaxy.

Good times. very good times ahead!

P.S the Emperor protects!

I fully agree! The codices, the books, even White Dwarf tease about the End Times and how they are here, I can only hope they ARE here and this won't be yet another clock reset like all others: I'm hoping for full blown devastation for an eventual 8th edition, I want to see famous worlds burn and iconic characters dying. With a plastic deamon Primarch I can only hope the lore will actually advance.

We faithful servants of the God-Emperor will be here to hold the tide of Darkness. Kill the Xenos! Burn the Heretic! Purge the Unclean!

This Magnus has horny eyes, and horny nipples!

Yes. Daemon Magnus means Daemon Lorgar. And Daemon Primarchs are a shot for CSM to take on the big baddies stomping around and dominating 40k these days.

 Col.Gravis wrote:
Respectfully, I disagree.

40k needs a kick up the arse, the rules are stagnant and bloated. But similarly the lore has been stuck at 10 minutes to midnight for a decade or more - shoving it forward 9 minutes and 45 seconds to the final cataclysmic conflict, the cadian gate wide open, chaos ascendant and at the very gates of Sol, the Xenos rising across the galaxy.

Good times. very good times ahead!

P.S the Emperor protects!

I fail to understand why Tabletop Games must necessarily have a lore moving forward. I want a setting, not a story. If I want a story I pick up a book, and not black library ones, a better written one ("b-but Aaron Dembski-Bowden..!" Ok ok we save him).

Now, expand the setting (say, add Tau), going in depth with lore (say, HH), narrative campaign (say, Armageddon) i can totally understand. But people build armies and spend time on the lore I think is not a good idea revolution it too much, unless is for stuff everybody loathes.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

I want to see famous worlds burn and iconic characters dying.

Yes but why?

 Col.Gravis wrote:
Respectfully, I disagree.

40k needs a kick up the arse, the rules are stagnant and bloated. But similarly the lore has been stuck at 10 minutes to midnight for a decade or more - shoving it forward 9 minutes and 45 seconds to the final cataclysmic conflict, the cadian gate wide open, chaos ascendant and at the very gates of Sol, the Xenos rising across the galaxy.

Good times. very good times ahead!

P.S the Emperor protects!

I'd rather not while gradually moving say a black crusade gets written into the fluff, the crusade itself could basically be the new setting where big bads are faced by the common man or Space Marine for example. But as for moving the setting completely well age of sigmar did that and its a total disaster.

S.Y.

I will never be able to paint his wings this fabulous.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

I fail to understand why Tabletop Games must necessarily have a lore moving forward. I want a setting, not a story. If I want a story I pick up a book, and not black library ones, a better written one ("b-but Aaron Dembski-Bowden..!" Ok ok we save him).

Now, expand the setting (say, add Tau), going in depth with lore (say, HH), narrative campaign (say, Armageddon) i can totally understand. But people build armies and spend time on the lore I think is not a good idea revolution it too much, unless is for stuff everybody loathes.

What exactly do we love about 40k?
The models? Sure, they are fantastic, but honestly, there are companies making better for less money.
The rules? Well I'm sure someone does.
Or the background, the lore, the setting? This is what really makes the game for a lot of people, sure its a miss-mash of original and ripped off concepts, of the cliché, but its unique.

So why progress it?

For my part, I guess I'm in the opposite corner to you, I want a story, an expanding grand narrative in which my games are played, not a static setting where nothing ever actually changes.

I might read a good book a few times, but even the best literally work gets essentially boring after a while - you know the story and how it will end, theres your static setting. A story arc where the ultimate ending is an unknown, much better.

StupidYellow wrote:
I'd rather not while gradually moving say a black crusade gets written into the fluff, the crusade itself could basically be the new setting where big bads are faced by the common man or Space Marine for example. But as for moving the setting completely well age of sigmar did that and its a total disaster.

S.Y.

Speaking as a retailer, Age of Sigmar was anything but a total disaster. Its taking time to find its feet, but sales are up significantly.

Speaking as a gamer, I loved the old world lore, but stopped keeping up to date with because as a game it was dieing. Admittedly, while I've played AoS and enjoyed it, I've not read the new lore at all yet.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 Col.Gravis wrote:
Respectfully, I disagree.

40k needs a kick up the arse, the rules are stagnant and bloated. But similarly the lore has been stuck at 10 minutes to midnight for a decade or more - shoving it forward 9 minutes and 45 seconds to the final cataclysmic conflict, the cadian gate wide open, chaos ascendant and at the very gates of Sol, the Xenos rising across the galaxy.

Good times. very good times ahead!

P.S the Emperor protects!

I fully agree! The codices, the books, even White Dwarf tease about the End Times and how they are here, I can only hope they ARE here and this won't be yet another clock reset like all others: I'm hoping for full blown devastation for an eventual 8th edition, I want to see famous worlds burn and iconic characters dying. With a plastic deamon Primarch I can only hope the lore will actually advance.

We faithful servants of the God-Emperor will be here to hold the tide of Darkness. Kill the Xenos! Burn the Heretic! Purge the Unclean!

Amen!

 Col.Gravis wrote:
40k needs a kick up the arse, the rules are stagnant and bloated.

Which has nothing to do with the fluff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Col.Gravis wrote:
40k needs a kick up the arse, the rules are stagnant and bloated.

Which has nothing to do with the fluff.

So read the rest of my post my good man and address that.

don't be sad, kronk...
i have a step-by-step coming soon for that purple/blue fade coming up on my WIP blog, for the Tzeentch Sorcerer i posted last week...
i'll do a tutorial for this guy when he comes out, too
looks damn fun to paint!!!

cheers
jah

 Col.Gravis wrote:
So read the rest of my post my good man and address that.

I disagree with the rest of your post. I figured that was obvious, as was my core point: You can fix the game without ruining the fluff.