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Well since you cannot polish a turd(Gw have been trying since 4th) and it is explicitly stated that Legions is a c:sm supplement I guess csm is kinda getting squatted yay finally.

All they need to do is allow and restrict c:sm units based on legion and allow the use of the real chaos marine units like raptors and oblits etc again allowed/restricted by legion.

Sprinkle new legion exclusive units and rules and you have the codex most people have wanted for years.

You are aware that Warhammer Community described it as a Chaos Space Marines supplement, right?

SeanDrake wrote:
Well since you cannot polish a turd(Gw have been trying since 4th) and it is explicitly stated that Legions is a c:sm supplement I guess csm is kinda getting squatted yay finally.

All they need to do is allow and restrict c:sm units based on legion and allow the use of the real chaos marine units like raptors and oblits etc again allowed/restricted by legion.

Sprinkle new legion exclusive units and rules and you have the codex most people have wanted for years.

I think that's extremely unlikely. Firstly they just released Traitors Hate for the CSM codex which wouldn't have happened if they were about to squat that codex. Secondly, and already posted, so many kits and existing units become invalidated. Chaos terminators, any chaos vehicle with a havoc launcher, chaos marine squads with double special weapons, chosen squads, chaos lords with certain weapon configurations etc. To accommodate all of that stuff you'd have to practically write the entire codex over again but as a supplement for space marines. The supplement would be gigantic!

It would just be really complicated.

SeanDrake wrote:
Well since you cannot polish a turd(Gw have been trying since 4th) and it is explicitly stated that Legions is a c:sm supplement I guess csm is kinda getting squatted yay finally.

All they need to do is allow and restrict c:sm units based on legion and allow the use of the real chaos marine units like raptors and oblits etc again allowed/restricted by legion.

Sprinkle new legion exclusive units and rules and you have the codex most people have wanted for years.

Explicitly stated by a guy on Redit, or a small typo by a guy on Redit. I know which one I find more likely.

How can Legions be getting their own rules I thought they didnt exist anymore

 BrotherGecko wrote:

What about the C:SM says codex astartes organization. It uses the same as every other army in the game. 2 HQ, 3 Elites, 6 Troops, 3 FA and 3 HS at the most basic organization not including all of thr various other organization styles. If you can play a chapter that doesn't use codex astartes in C:SM then how does that arguement make sense?

Easiest place to point to are the formations, which are strict "Demi-Company" Setups. The Demi Companies are formed from the rigid Battle Company lineup of 6 Tactical, 2 Assault and 2 Devastator squads.

Then there are the unit differences: Sternguard, Vanguard, Centurions vs. Chosen, Berzerkers, Daemon Engines etc. Also the ATSKNF rule, which the Chaos Marines lack and 30K marines don't have AFAIK. The fact that Loyalists can't have CC weapons on their basic guys, or can't get their squads in numbers beyond 10. Combat Squad rules, etc. Not to mention Marks, Spells, Daemon Princes. . .

It would very much surprise me if the Legions supplement was supplemented to C:SM as was rumored.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I think I would prefer Traitor Legions being a Space Marine supplement over a Choas Marine supplement. Mostly because I already use the C:SM book when I port over my 30k IW. Unless CSM got a major overhaul, it does not allow for porting 30k.

Does anyone really think it's going to be C: SM?

It does make more sense if you consider that only C:SM has rules for cataphractii terminators and contemptor dreadnoughts. If you look at the new Tzeentch minis, we see stylized 30k armor and not 40k chaos armor. Basically if Traitor Legions isn't attached to C:SM, it makes it much harder for people to buy up those HH plastic kits for 40k. Attaching to C:SM maximizes potential profits whilst also needing to cover the least amount of rules.

C:SM doesn't have rules for Cataphractii Terminators and Contemptor Dreadnoughts.

Angels of Death; a Codex: Space Marines supplement has them.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Traitor Legions containing the rules for those items, and possibly even the Tartaros Terminator Armour.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

What about the C:SM says codex astartes organization. It uses the same as every other army in the game. 2 HQ, 3 Elites, 6 Troops, 3 FA and 3 HS at the most basic organization not including all of thr various other organization styles. If you can play a chapter that doesn't use codex astartes in C:SM then how does that arguement make sense?

I can play my HH era army with C:SM but I can't with CSM. Post-HH is still easier with C:SM.

You're digging your heels in on this stupid idea waaay too hard.

lol, don't tell me that some are really thinking that it's a SM supplement and not a CSM supplement!!!!

in terms of profit wise how is GW doing now a days?

Chad Warden wrote:
How can Legions be getting their own rules I thought they didnt exist anymore

A warband that was once part of the Emperor's Children, World Eaters etc. may only be 30 or 40 strong but on the tabletop that can easily be a 2000 point army with their vehicles, and they'll still fight like their legion fought. Plus other legions didn't fracture in the same way

Man, I can't wait to see stats on flamers and the soul reaper cannon. Also how army rules might retooled to maximize weapon efficiency.

Maybe slow n purposeful gets replaced by a mechanic that requires a sorceror nearby to keep on task like spirit seers or instinctive behavior.

Chad Warden wrote:
How can Legions be getting their own rules I thought they didn't exist anymore

That's just what the imperium want you to think

How can Legions be getting their own rules I thought they didnt exist anymore

They do exist though...

The game 40k takes place over the 10,000 after the Heresey.

They didn't immediately split up right after retreating from Terra. It took hundreds, if not thousands of years to fracture into different cults and warbands.

I could argue that my Emperor's children army is from m32 and are still fully functioning, or that my World Eaters have been lost in the warp since the onset of the Heresey and now have come back 9000 years later (which to them only felt like a few days) and are still very much a legion centred army. Therefore Legions do exist.

Or I can just give you the real answer and tell you that most Chaos players don't want Codex: Warbands or Codex: Renegades. We want Codex: Traitor Legions! We had it, and they took it away because reasons, and now over a decade later they've realized that we don't give a gak about the Red Corsairs (sorry red corsair players, I had to pick on somebody). We want full on traitor legions.

The Horus Heresy series has proven just how much people want this product, and GW would be the biggest idiots in the world not to cater to this very large demographic of players that buy their game. We've been asking for this for years only to be ignored. And the last two dismal failures of Chaos Marine Codex's were poorly recieved and show that we don't want to be spoon fed the gak that they are trying to serve us.

Give me Traitor Legions or give me Death

angelofvengeance wrote:Legion supplement YouTube vid for those who don't like Facebook

That is not the original video. I see they have fixed it. In the first one, Alpha Legion were hiding. Now the logo is present in this video.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Or I can just give you the real answer and tell you that most Chaos players don't want Codex: Warbands or Codex: Renegades. We want Codex: Traitor Legions! We had it, and they took it away because it was a broken NPE-generating pile of crap, and now over a decade later they've realized that we don't give a gak about the Red Corsairs (sorry red corsair players, I had to pick on somebody). We want full on traitor legions.

Fixed that for you.

Before anyone jumps down my throat about it, I have no issues with Chaos getting a Legions book - so long as someone writes it who gives a damn about both balance and background. And, preferably, doesn't play the Legions themselves, so we don't end up with that Iron Warriors list all over again...

 Dysartes wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Or I can just give you the real answer and tell you that most Chaos players don't want Codex: Warbands or Codex: Renegades. We want Codex: Traitor Legions! We had it, and they took it away because it was a broken NPE-generating pile of crap, and now over a decade later they've realized that we don't give a gak about the Red Corsairs (sorry red corsair players, I had to pick on somebody). We want full on traitor legions.

Fixed that for you.

Before anyone jumps down my throat about it, I have no issues with Chaos getting a Legions book - so long as someone writes it who gives a damn about both balance and background. And, preferably, doesn't play the Legions themselves, so we don't end up with that Iron Warriors list all over again...

Yet we still get Phil Kelly writing Craftworld Eldar.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

How can Legions be getting their own rules I thought they didnt exist anymore

They do exist though...

The game 40k takes place over the 10,000 after the Heresey.

They didn't immediately split up right after retreating from Terra. It took hundreds, if not thousands of years to fracture into different cults and warbands.

I could argue that my Emperor's children army is from m32 and are still fully functioning, or that my World Eaters have been lost in the warp since the onset of the Heresey and now have come back 9000 years later (which to them only felt like a few days) and are still very much a legion centred army. Therefore Legions do exist.

Sorry I was being facetious

Whenever people asked for Legion rules in the past you'd always have someone saying "they cant get rules because they don't exist anymore"

Yeah, when 50,000 warriors from a Legion 'broke up into Warbands' somehow they managed to never do so in large enough numbers to warrant rules, yet a 1000 strong Chapter certain does.

That logic never made sense to me.

Much less a company of IF.

Clearly a typical Chaos warband is smaller than the 30-40 dudes you field ina standard sized army.

I though the typical Chaos warband was 3-5 Sorcerers or Belakor, 20 Cultists and 1-3 Heldrakes?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I though the typical Chaos warband was 3-5 Sorcerers or Belakor, 20 Cultists and 1-3 Heldrakes?

This guy gets it!

It makes a lot more sense to make some legion specific books than it does to add yet another flavour of space marines. Chaos has so much untapped potential. Hopefully we start seeing some new codexes rather than yet another supplement.

Does anyone have a page count on the supplement? Could we be seeing a bunch of new kits to flesh out all Traitor Legions? Even an update of the much beloved Khorne Berzerkers kit?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Does anyone have a page count on the supplement? Could we be seeing a bunch of new kits to flesh out all Traitor Legions? Even an update of the much beloved Khorne Berzerkers kit?

I think they'll slowly start releasing kits to match units in the supplement, at least I hope

Interesting that we've seen Thousand Sons dice, but nothing on psychic power or objective cards. At least, not yet.

Supposedly it's 136 pages. I don't think it will have units.
I'm somewhat suspecting Wrath of magnus is how they are going to introduce new units though. This way they can release new units and models without having to wait for a whole new codex and release several campaign books over time too. I could be way off tough.

It's about 10 pages longer than Angels of Death, so I'd actually suspect that it does have the new TSons units in it.

That would be a huge slap in the face for the other legions though. Why do only the TSons get new units. Seems pretty unfair for a supplement that is supposed to be for all nine legions. The rumour didn't say anything about new units mind you.