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GoatboyBeta wrote:
As daft/improbable/kick ass(take your pick ) as Hulkbuster Gulliman sounds. It would answer the questions of how you make a non demon primarch fresh out of stasis different from his 30k model and fit in the same size/price bracket as Magnus.

I think that the best way to bring back an imperial primarch would be to have, for example Russ, come wandering out of nothingness and be just a very tired old man after thousands and thousands of years of fighting. Have him worn down, without any of his legendary equipment and missing an arm. Still pretty impressive, all things told, but ultimately just a little tougher and meaner than a chapter master. Any 40k primarch should be diminished. They'd still be a huge deal for their successors and cause massive schisms in the Imperium by simply existing but nothing you could smack down on the tabletop and totally wreck things with.

Why are so many people adamant about not wanting the primarchs to return?

LightKing wrote:
Why are so many people adamant about not wanting the primarchs to return?

We have had a few threads in 40K general about "advancing the 40K" story line. A lot of people think or say 40K is a setting and the 40K setting shouldn't advance so therefore Primarchs should never be in a 40K setting story since none of them are around for the last 30 years so introducing them now would be advancing the setting that so many are clamouring for.

So this leads to big arguments on who is right or wrong instead of having "this is our opinion" instead.

Probably because 40k is built on the Imperium's craziest achievements being long in its past. It's such a huge change that people doubt GW will do it well. It's also very similar to the whole End Times deal for WHFB, which doesn't inspire confidence.

LightKing wrote:
Why are so many people adamant about not wanting the primarchs to return?

I think it is because marines of various stripes are involved in so many death stars. If the primarchs come back in 7th edition, the death stars will only be buffed.

 JimOnMars wrote:

LightKing wrote:
Why are so many people adamant about not wanting the primarchs to return?

I think it is because marines of various stripes are involved in so many death stars. If the primarchs come back in 7th edition, the death stars will only be buffed.

Half the deathstars in the competitive scene are chaos though...

Magnus The Red is part of the daemons on the GW website.
I thought he was only a TS LoW ?

Rosebuddy wrote:
Probably because 40k is built on the Imperium's craziest achievements being long in its past. It's such a huge change that people doubt GW will do it well. It's also very similar to the whole End Times deal for WHFB, which doesn't inspire confidence.

This. Primarchs are barely remembered myths and should remain that way. It would alter the theme of the setting and I don't want that. But I (and others) have explained this many times and some people just don't get it.

 Crimson wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
Probably because 40k is built on the Imperium's craziest achievements being long in its past. It's such a huge change that people doubt GW will do it well. It's also very similar to the whole End Times deal for WHFB, which doesn't inspire confidence.

This. Primarchs are barely remembered myths and should remain that way. It would alter the theme of the setting and I don't want that. But I (and others) have explained this many times and some people just don't get it.

Well, I for one, am glad GW isn't listening to you I love the idea of advancing the story, answering some of the questions, creating new stuff.

It's a shame it will advance it in it's typical fashion - that being incoherent and poorly written and balanced. I'm expecting a lot of big plastic monsters and very predictable 'big events' if this goes the way of the Age of Sigmar. Advancing the story line would be a very exciting thing if it weren't for the approach taken.

 nintura wrote:

Well, I for one, am glad GW isn't listening to you I love the idea of advancing the story, answering some of the questions, creating new stuff.

That worked great for fantasy Warhammer World!

 Crimson wrote:

 nintura wrote:

Well, I for one, am glad GW isn't listening to you I love the idea of advancing the story, answering some of the questions, creating new stuff.

That worked great for fantasy Warhammer World!

Wouldnt know. Havent read the fantasy world story. This isn't fantasy. There's a hundred times more source material than fantasy.

 Crimson wrote:

 nintura wrote:

Well, I for one, am glad GW isn't listening to you I love the idea of advancing the story, answering some of the questions, creating new stuff.

That worked great for fantasy Warhammer world!

I think it did actually. I have the fluff and endtimes books from the old world. They segue well into my new fluff books as a time of legends before the current times in Fantasy. The end of the first trilogy of a several trilogy book series. Could they have done something different? Yes. Would it have been better? I'm not so sure. I mean to me the idea that the great beings and gods of the old world spawn a whole new pocket universe is awesome. And the fluff is actually solid. To many people saw stormcasts and were mad about the old world to really give it a go. Some is meh but it's also constructing a whole new world. I can't be the only guy who doesn't even bother with codexes anymore not because of the price but because there isn't anything new to learn that isn't a random tidbit I can find online? I can only buy a DA codex so many times before I run out of things to learn That said when a new faction comes out I grab their books still for background (Knights, Harlequins, Admech, GSC) and I get all the campaign books now that the story is starting to move. Besides they aren't going to blow up the universe, it's already been said.

Overall I'm very, very happy with the timeline and events moving forward. Granted I know not everyone is but I KNOW that. Quite a few people on the hate train of moving the fluff forward don't seem to KNOW that there are quite a few people on the other side who enjoy the movement.

Can't wait for the campaign book. The overall army list is probably a no go for me so the new models aren't going to be something I get but bring on Daemon Prince Perturabo and I'm all in

Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has.....so people saying 40k will fall into the end time/age of sigmar trap i think are misguided

LightKing wrote:
Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has.....so people saying 40k will fall into the end time/age of sigmar trap i think are misguided

Well, they probably won't scrap the whole thing, but that doesn't mean that the setting cannot be horribly mutilated. Whether you personally like it or not you must recognise that messing with the basic axioms of a setting that has remained relatively static for several decades is precarious business.

 Crimson wrote:

LightKing wrote:
Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has.....so people saying 40k will fall into the end time/age of sigmar trap i think are misguided

Well, they probably won't scrap the whole thing, but that doesn't mean that the setting cannot be horribly mutilated. Whether you personally like it or not you must recognise that messing with the basic axioms of a setting that has remained relatively static for several decades is precarious business.

I doubt advancing the 40k fluff is going to change that much in regards to individual factions. The overarching struggle for power in the galaxy will be altered and we may see the imperium on the back foot as chaos envalopes Terra, the Nids hive fleets engulf the 'south east' of the galaxy and the necrons awake across the galaxy as they begin to reconstruct their lost empire. This will leave the imperium fractured and will actually be a nice time for the primarchs to come back and defend what is left of the imperium.

Will this affect the table top game? No.
Will this affect the previous fluff of factions? No.
What will it do? Give chaos/xenos a break, take down the imperium factions a peg or two and it will open up hundreds of brand new stories to be told of the new galaxy after the fall of Terra.

Calm down everyone: the galaxy won't fracture into individual universes just because the primarchs come back.

 Hulksmash wrote:
The overall army list is probably a no go for me so the new models aren't going to be something I get but bring on Daemon Prince Perturabo and I'm all in

I very much doubt we will see Perturabo. You'll see Angron, Mortarion and Fulgrim. The Sisters of Silence are rumored to have the ability to "unmake a god". I fully expect them to employ this ability against the 2 daemon primarchs that GW wishes they could forget about.

They'll obviously want the loyalists to be the Lion, Russ, Guilliman and Sanguinius, for sales reasons. But isn't Sanguinius dead? Don't worry. Life, uh, finds a way.

I more imagine the "unmake a god" part is them surrounding the Golden Throne and finally killing the Big E himself to allow him to finally become whole in the warp and ascend to become the 6th Chaos God. That way all the loyalist Primarchs get to return as Daemon princes as well, and GW gets to sell a ton of huge expensive models that don't cut into the sales of their 30K counterparts.

LightKing wrote:
Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has...

Uhh... you sure about that?

Loopstah wrote:
I more imagine the "unmake a god" part is them surrounding the Golden Throne and finally killing the Big E himself to allow him to finally become whole in the warp and ascend to become the 6th Chaos God. That way all the loyalist Primarchs get to return as Daemon princes as well, and GW gets to sell a ton of huge expensive models that don't cut into the sales of their 30K counterparts.

Oh gak! That actually sounds credible... And would utterly ruin 40K. This is exactly the sort of crap I'm afraid.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

LightKing wrote:
Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has...

Uhh... you sure about that?

Yea that made me roll my eyes too. I haven't touched fantasy since 6th ed granted, but I remember playing Skaven almost entirely based on the fluff back when plastic clanrats were 1 terrible pose.

 Crimson wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
I more imagine the "unmake a god" part is them surrounding the Golden Throne and finally killing the Big E himself to allow him to finally become whole in the warp and ascend to become the 6th Chaos God. That way all the loyalist Primarchs get to return as Daemon princes as well, and GW gets to sell a ton of huge expensive models that don't cut into the sales of their 30K counterparts.

Oh gak! That actually sounds credible... And would utterly ruin 40K. This is exactly the sort of crap I'm afraid.

Without getting too political, you sound like an american that insists they should own a firearm because ISIS might attack.

The only thing to fear is fear itself. It was true then and it's true now.
Back on topic then shall we?

What do we believe the legions are going to get? I myself am interested to see if there are new content on top of what we are already getting for the thousand sons, and eagerly await Night Lord formations.

Neronoxx wrote:

Without getting too political, you sound like an american that insists they should own a firearm because ISIS might attack.

Well that was a complete non sequitur.

 Crimson wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

Without getting too political, you sound like an american that insists they should own a firearm because ISIS might attack.

Well that was a complete non sequitur.

Yes, not exactly the same thing: weilding fire arms because of fear of terrorists vs complaining because a sci fi setting might change.

The phrase "leave it at the door" comes to mind.

Is there gonna be another way to get those psyker cards or is the only way the limited edition book?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

LightKing wrote:
Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has...

Uhh... you sure about that?

Yea that made me roll my eyes too. I haven't touched fantasy since 6th ed granted, but I remember playing Skaven almost entirely based on the fluff back when plastic clanrats were 1 terrible pose.

Ummm... that doesn't actually say anything.... we are talking about the amount of fluff, not that each race has it's own story. 40k is leagues ahead of fantasy

 nintura wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

LightKing wrote:
Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has...

Uhh... you sure about that?

Yea that made me roll my eyes too. I haven't touched fantasy since 6th ed granted, but I remember playing Skaven almost entirely based on the fluff back when plastic clanrats were 1 terrible pose.

Ummm... that doesn't actually say anything.... we are talking about the amount of fluff, not that each race has it's own story. 40k is leagues ahead of fantasy

Is it? In what way?

So I have been looking at the spoilers so far and something about the usr for the army caught my eye. It said that any detachment can come from the Thousand Sons. Would this mean that a Black Crusade detachment, and all formations within, have those rules along with the normal rules? Maybe I'm looking into it too much, but if that is true, that is pretty awesome and might tip me over on picking the army up.

I may have missed it as I've been trying to get caught up on a lot of this stuff since Thanksgiving. But did anyone mention if the hobby sections in the books provide for alternative color schemes? Is there a non-Ahriman red and gold scheme for example? Is there anything in the background to further justify this?

Crimson wrote: But I (and others) have explained this many times and some people just don't get it.

Or how about they get it, they understand but still have a differing opinion? Ah the Sheldon syndrome. If you don't agree you are wrong.

I don't really get all the anti-primarchs coming back hate.

1. All the evil primarchs have been alive and active for 10000 years, who gives a gak if they suddenly have 'good' primarchs too?

2. 40k fluff is basically a bad Michael Bay acid trip in space anyway. An arthouse masterpiece it is not.