Daemon Primarch Magnus/Wrath of Magnus/Traitor Legions Codex Supplement/Thousand Sons

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**Roknar**

Heh, that made me smile. Nice one.

**H.B.M.C.**

Thud wrote:
It's 7th edition, son. Tau can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day.

Very nice.

**LightKing**

The lion is the only loyalist primarch that can realistically come back

**tneva82**

LightKing wrote:
The lion is the only loyalist primarch that can realistically come back

Along with Khan, Guillimann, Dorn, Corax, Vulkan and Russ.

**Quarterdime**

tneva82 wrote:
LightKing wrote:
The lion is the only loyalist primarch that can realistically come back

Along with Khan, Guillimann, Dorn, Corax, Vulkan and Russ.

I don't remember what happened to Corax, but Guilliman?? Realistically?

**Carnikang**

Quarterdime wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
LightKing wrote:
The lion is the only loyalist primarch that can realistically come back

Along with Khan, Guillimann, Dorn, Corax, Vulkan and Russ.

I don't remember what happened to Corax, but Guilliman?? Realistically?

Rather he stayed a popsicle until someone magics him better. But with all the supposed healing that's going on, I could see him coming back later.

**tneva82**

Quarterdime wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
LightKing wrote:
The lion is the only loyalist primarch that can realistically come back

Along with Khan, Guillimann, Dorn, Corax, Vulkan and Russ.

I don't remember what happened to Corax, but Guilliman?? Realistically?

The guy is in statis supposedly healing. All GW has to do is write that stasis shuts down and he wakes up all healed up.

Fluff even has plot hook for him waking up. He's not dead. Just deadly injured but with claims that he's actually healing.

**casvalremdeikun**

tneva82 wrote:
Quarterdime wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
LightKing wrote:
The lion is the only loyalist primarch that can realistically come back

Along with Khan, Guillimann, Dorn, Corax, Vulkan and Russ.

I don't remember what happened to Corax, but Guilliman?? Realistically?

The guy is in statis supposedly healing. All GW has to do is write that stasis shuts down and he wakes up all healed up.

Fluff even has plot hook for him waking up. He's not dead. Just deadly injured but with claims that he's actually healing.

The healing has always been characterized as wishful thinking on the part of the Ultramarines.

**Crazyterran**

The Ultramarines never said it, but various people that visited. Typically pilgrims.

Enough people in the Imperium believe it that its spread around, and that these pilgrims come to visit the 'miracle of the primarch'. We all know how beliefmworks in 40k.

On top of that, there was a stasis unit that healed someone in the 30k books, so there's a couple ways they could do it. It could have taken ten thousand years to counteract Fulgrim's Anathemes, heal the threat slash, and for someone to trip over the power cord.

**casvalremdeikun**

Crazyterran wrote:
The Ultramarines never said it, but various people that visited. Typically pilgrims.

Enough people in the Imperium believe it that its spread around, and that these pilgrims come to visit the 'miracle of the primarch'. We all know how beliefmworks in 40k.

On top of that, there was a stasis unit that healed someone in the 30k books, so there's a couple ways they could do it. It could have taken ten thousand years to counteract Fulgrim's Anathemes, heal the threat slash, and for someone to trip over the power cord.

If you are going to trust the average imperial idiot...

**Crazyterran**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
The Ultramarines never said it, but various people that visited. Typically pilgrims.

Enough people in the Imperium believe it that its spread around, and that these pilgrims come to visit the 'miracle of the primarch'. We all know how beliefmworks in 40k.

On top of that, there was a stasis unit that healed someone in the 30k books, so there's a couple ways they could do it. It could have taken ten thousand years to counteract Fulgrim's Anathemes, heal the threat slash, and for someone to trip over the power cord.
If you are going to trust the average imperial idiot...

Dorn coming back is probably just as much wishful thinking. I mean, one had his hands were fished out of the ruins of a chaos battlebarge the other could be using technology that has been set up in the Horus Heresy books.

Edit: remember, faith is a thing in 40k. Enough people believe the Emperor is a god, thus his powers are increased. All primarchs have latent psychic potential, so if enough people believe Guilliman is healing, it is another way in universe.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Well, I'm sure GW will just change the background as they see fit to and if it supports the release of models they want to produce.

**casvalremdeikun**

Crazyterran wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
The Ultramarines never said it, but various people that visited. Typically pilgrims.

Enough people in the Imperium believe it that its spread around, and that these pilgrims come to visit the 'miracle of the primarch'. We all know how beliefmworks in 40k.

On top of that, there was a stasis unit that healed someone in the 30k books, so there's a couple ways they could do it. It could have taken ten thousand years to counteract Fulgrim's Anathemes, heal the threat slash, and for someone to trip over the power cord.
If you are going to trust the average imperial idiot...

Dorn coming back is probably just as much wishful thinking. I mean, one had his hands were fished out of the ruins of a chaos battlebarge the other could be using technology that has been set up in the Horus Heresy books.

Edit: remember, faith is a thing in 40k. Enough people believe the Emperor is a god, thus his powers are increased. All primarchs have latent psychic potential, so if enough people believe Guilliman is healing, it is another way in universe.

Are you familiar with the common trope of "Never found the body"

BTW, I am not in the camp of people thinking Dorn WILL come back. I just wish he would come back. I am firmly in the camp of the Loyalist Primarch that will come back is the Lion.

**Crazyterran**

It will probably be the Lion (for the new poster boys, after all!) or the Khan.

I say the Khan because Chogoris is under siege by Chaos, after all!

**casvalremdeikun**

You know, we haven't considered the possibility of it being one of the two lost Primarchs, have we?

**Bull0**

That's hardly worth considering.

**casvalremdeikun**

Bull0 wrote:
That's hardly worth considering.

Yes, but the collective

would totally be worth it.

**Bull0**

It would be a laugh but they'd most likely botch it. The existing primarchs only get away with their cringeworthy names and characterisation because they have so much history. If they dropped Justice Valourheart of the Emperor's Paladins or Vipus Snakeskin of the Sons of the Serpent on us out of the blue now we'd (rightfully) tear them to shreds, lol. Actually, now I'm going to start rooting for that. Lost primarch 2016!

**tneva82**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
The healing has always been characterized as wishful thinking on the part of the Ultramarines.

True but it's still there. Can be written with one paragraph that it wasn't just wishful thinking but reality. Stasis collapses, Guilliman opens eyes and hey presto.

He's never been dead for good so it doesn't even cause any real retconning like Iron hands or blood angel primarch would require. All it requires is that the "wishful thinking" was actually true after all.

Compared to what they did with phoenix crown in fantasy it's insignificant change if it's change at all.

**reds8n**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/12/01/armies-of-the-thousand-sons/

The Thousand Sons are a powerful, but elite, force on the battlefield, and creating an army of them and using it effectively in games can be a challenge. When you get it right, however, the scions of lost Prospero can take control of a game through lethal, focused firepower and utter domination of the Psychic phase.

The lore and history of the Thousand Sons provides many examples of great inspiration for how you could collect an army of these rubric-damned traitors. Here, we’ve picked out a few easy ways you could go about it that both fit the rich narrative of the Legion and also get you a force that is none-too-shabby in the game.

An unaffiliated Chaos Space Marines armies can still use all the new Thousand Sons units, but by creating a purely Thousand Sons force, you get a selection of enviable bonuses, and this applies to any Formation or Detachment. This means that the ever-popular Combined Arms build is an option. So long as you meet the requirements of a Thousand Sons Detachment, your Rubric Marines backed up by Tzaangors troop options can take full advantage of the Objective Secured rule to claim objectives, while also getting the Blessing of Tzeentch, Blood Feud, and Legacy of the Rubricae rules (find out what these do in Wrath of Magnus) for being a Thousand Sons Detachment.

Ahriman makes a perfect warlord for these infantry-heavy armies, allowing units to Infiltrate as a way of compensating for their lack of natural speed. 20 Rubric Marines in their deployment zone on turn one is not something any enemy wants to have to deal with.

Each Exalted Sorcerer is the lord of a Silver Tower, and this makes for a great theme to build an army around.

While the Thousand Sons are usually an elite force, they are also versatile enough that, if you like, you can still get quite a few models on the battlefield, thanks to 7pt Tzaangors (8 with an autopistol). This is really handy if you want to spend a lot of your points on powerful psykers, but still want the man-power (gor-power?) to go and hold objectives. In this case, we’d suggest that building an army around some of the smaller Formations in the new book – such as the War Coven and Tzaangor Warherd – is the way to go, as both Exalted Sorcerers and Tzaangors are at their best in these.

The Sons of Magnus Detachment is the best way to play a Thousand Sons army in any kind of larger game. Formed of several (all pretty useful) Formations, it further bolsters the psychic power of the warriors within.

It doesn’t take the all-seeing Eye of Tzeentch to know that, in really big games, you want Magnus in your corner. He is utterly dominating in the psychic phase, and a match for most anything in combat, provided you have the right powers in play. There are a few options for how to get him into this Detachment, but we like the Sekhmet Conclave best – formed of Magnus (or one of his chief lieutenants) and Scarab Occult Terminators – because it raises him to a potential Toughness 8. This takes the Daemon Primarch beyond the damage of bolters and most Space Marines guns, and means that popular Strength 6 weapons (we’re looking at you, Eldar) will only wound on 6’s, halving their effectiveness against him.

**Lythrandire Biehrellian**

Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?

**Cephalobeard**

Scatbikes, Battle company, and Deathstars. The bane of this game.

**Nvs**

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?

I'm more incensed that none of what they wrote is true and that the army is still shaping up to be neither competetive or viable.

**Kanluwen**

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?

How exactly do they fix them, with no arguments being able to be made for or against using an FAQ/Errata, without bringing out a new Codex?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lady Atia posted up some preview pictures from Wrath of Magnus of Thousand Sons color schemes.
Spoilered two samples so that the images don't just sneak up on people.

Spoiler:

**Galef**

Kanluwen wrote:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?

How exactly do they fix them, with no arguments being able to be made for or against using an FAQ/Errata, without bringing out a new Codex?

Points costs have been adjusted by FAQ's before. The Final draft of the Eldar codex FAQ has yet to be released. Maybe if we wish hard enough, they will make Scatter lasers 20ppm (double what they are now) for Windriders. That is the easiest fix.

-

**mrhappyface**

Nvs wrote:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?

I'm more incensed that none of what they wrote is true and that the army is still shaping up to be neither competetive or viable.

There are some potentially competetive lists: sorcerors and pink horrors could make up the majority of your list with a couple of rubrics mixed in.
Ahriman as your warlord would allow you to infiltrate your rubrics forward and decimate any armoured infintry your opponant has with ap3, soul blaze bolters and flamers. Your sorcerors and pink horrors can then summon tons of WC on your first turn.
It comes round to their turn: they have the option of shooting a 3+/4++(3++ if you bless them) unit with infantry munching weapons or they can try to destroy some of the WC batteries you have created (which spawn more WC when killed).
Back to your turn: you have enough WC to start hammering their bigger models.

The new TS gives you reliable control of the psychic phase and a glass cannon in the form of rubric who will either burn through tons of infantry or be a massive waste of points, it will vary from game to game.

**Sasori**

Nvs wrote:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?

I'm more incensed that none of what they wrote is true and that the army is still shaping up to be neither competetive or viable.

Competitive? No, I don't think it will be able to compete with the Gladius, Eldar and other top table armies at this point. The army is shaping up to be plenty viable though right now it appears to be very distinctly middle of the pack. As I've mentioned before, due to the uniqueness of the psychic phase in this case, I think we'll a bit more time to really figure out where it stands. I am upset about Rubrics still being 5 PPM overpriced.

**Kanluwen**

Galef wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?

How exactly do they fix them, with no arguments being able to be made for or against using an FAQ/Errata, without bringing out a new Codex?

Points costs have been adjusted by FAQ's before. The Final draft of the Eldar codex FAQ has yet to be released. Maybe if we wish hard enough, they will make Scatter lasers 20ppm (double what they are now) for Windriders. That is the easiest fix.

-

Again, then you get arguments about whether or not people "have" to use FAQs/Erratas.

The simplest fix would be to release a new Eldar codex, with the Scatter Lasers bumped up in price. But even then you'll get people arguing "I don't have to buy the new Eldar book, I can just use the old one! All it did was change Scatter Lasers in cost!".

**Skerr**

Sasori wrote:
Nvs wrote:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?

I'm more incensed that none of what they wrote is true and that the army is still shaping up to be neither competetive or viable.

Competitive? No, I don't think it will be able to compete with the Gladius, Eldar and other top table armies at this point. The army is shaping up to be plenty viable though right now it appears to be very distinctly middle of the pack. As I've mentioned before, due to the uniqueness of the psychic phase in this case, I think we'll a bit more time to really figure out where it stands. I am upset about Rubrics still being 5 PPM overpriced.

Sasori, you always are the voice of wisdom. This is not a beginners army.

It will take forward thinking, versatility and evolving strategies based on how your psychic phase goes.

If folks want a stand a shoot army play necrons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the recent article on warhammer TV about how to play the army is right on.

**Battlesong**

Thud wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait a second, wait a second.

Tell me if I'm reading this right:

Are we at a point where Thousand Sons armies can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day?

It's 7th edition, son. Tau can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day.

Awesome!

Exalted...