Daemon Primarch Magnus/Wrath of Magnus/Traitor Legions Codex Supplement/Thousand Sons

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**jifel**

Hey Veteran Noob any clarification on IW rerolling barrages but not having barrage weapons?

**Rydria**

VeteranNoob wrote:
DarkStarSabre wrote:
VeteranNoob wrote:

8 Death Guard (yeah, baby!!) Count the Seven!
must: Typhus only unique; only Nurgle marks; VotLW; DP need Mk Nurgle; psykers can take all from Nurgle
gain: Gift of Nurgle: VotLW gain fearless & FnP but -1 initiative (doesn’t affect Typhus or Plague marines); Inexorable Advance: VotLW get relentless; Lords of Plague Host: Plague Marines are troops
WT: FnP;IWNDie; +1 W; Eternal warrior; improved Poison by 1; units w/in 7” get contagion
relics: poison 2+ weapon; poison 2+ lg blast gun; poison 2+ staff; give units fear; give a dude fear, FnP & D3 cultists come back to life; AP3 poison 4+ deamon weapon
army: Disgustingly Resilient: re-roll FnP rolls of 1; Cloud of Flies: ranged hits more than 18” away give you stealth rule for resolving attack
core: Chaos wdrbamd; Plague Colony (Typhus + 3-7 plague marines—gain fear & enemy units w/in7” reduce I & WS by 1 in fight phase, if 7 plague marines add -1 Toughness to that)
command: Lord of Legion
aux: Lost and the Damned + 8
obj: Vp if 3+ your units on enemy table half; make 7 FnP rolls; kill unit w/weapon or psychic power using poisoned; name a IC and VP if he lives; D3Vp if you control EXACTLY 3 obj; kill 7 models (improves)
Access to full discipline of Nurgle 6 + primaris

Ok - let's have some clarification here.

Is VotLW free (ala Thousand Sons? Must have but no points cost)
Detachment Wise - Rerolling FNP and Stealth from 18+" away are the bonuses, yes? Also, clarify the Aux Choices - Terminator Annihilation Force? y/n? Option to take single vehicles (like Thousand Sons) y/n?

yup, ala TS.
those rerolls and cloud of flies are for the detachment, ala TS Grand Coven
The same 8 formations in Traitor's Hate are in all except the TS so to short hand it became aux: 0-8. The other 8 legions did not gain the GC option, so have to select at least one from those 8 or 9 aux formations.

would you be willing to post the relics for the emperor's children/the others legions in more detail, how many flamers could I get for each one of them ?

**BrotherGecko**

Rydria wrote:
BrotherGecko wrote:
So no Basilisks for IW? But they can rerol barrage weapons?

Supposed to be fluffy.....makes rules around being in fortifications.....swing and a miss GW.
Perhaps the idea is you have them manning a fortress that has barrage weapons ?

Are there fortifications with barrage? I don't pay any attention to fortifications in 40k.

It would be like GW to give the fortress crackers rules to huddle in fortress.

....GW you made IF the fortress huddlers and the IW the fortress breakers

**Voodoo_Chile**

Any change to the Khorne Lord of Skulls? Is it still a ridiculous 888 points?

**Roknar**

@VeteranNoob: Could you please clarify the Speartip strike rule for Black Legion?
Does the guaranteed first turn deepstrike also apply to vehicles the warlord is embarked on?
And does it apply to all units, that is to say, including vehicles?

**VeteranNoob**

jifel wrote:
Got a question for you VeteranNoob:

3 - Iron Warriors
must: no unique, no marks take VotLW, Psykers from gods (see above)
gain: Blood feud: VotLW re-roll failed to hit every combat round vs. Imp Fists, but IF get Hatred YOU; iron w/in, iron w/out: VotLW gain 6+ FnP, Patrons of technovirus: Obliterators and Mutilators are troops; siege masters: units re-roll armor pen vs buildings it didn’t glance or pen. +1 damage big roll result; IW havens, obits, mutilators get tank hunter
WT: FnP 4+; Fearless; give your terrain piece +1 cover; Friendly Oblits w/in 12” can fire twice in consecutive shooting phases; WL + unit have split fire & counterattack while in cover; friendly vehicles get It WND w/in 6” WL
relics: warp smith can possess a vehicle; warp smith extraA for challenge; axe of forge master; armor 2+ + gains IWND; at enemy shooting phase enemy vehicles w/in 2D6’ of bearer suffer automatic haywire hit, no cover allowed; siege breaker mace S+2 Ap 4, concussive, masterccraft, siege breaker - signal S10, AP 1 attack melee
army: master annihilation: barrage and word weapons can choose to re-roll scatter die; intractable brotherhood: all non-veh are stubborn; on or in fortification gain fearless instead
cor: chasse warband
command: Lords of legion
aux: Stronghold (1-3 fortifications + others
tact obj: VP if kill unit even partially w/in 18” your table edge; VP if kill unit that was controlling an obj; VP if your oblits/mutil destroyed a unit; roll die and get that obj; Vp if enemy forts/buildings lost HP (more if more);destroy enemy vehicle
(more is more)

So it says that for the general army formation, all Iron Warriors barrages can reroll to hit. Only problem here is, there are no barrage weapons in Codex: Chaos Space Marines... Is that really the rule?

It is, barrage and ordnance. We got Ord from the vindicators but to me this is future-proofing and the 1-3 fortifications, missle silos and some other one has barrage.

**BrotherGecko**

So no AUX choice is secretly a basilik then for IW?

**Roknar**

Sadly no.

**jifel**

That is... Yikes. That is sad. TL my nonexistent weapons? Cool. Please, please find a way to to get FW units into the decurions...

**BrotherGecko**

Guess its back to the space marine codex and angels of death lol.

At least I can ally guard for some siege equipment.

**Daedalus81**

Updated my sheet - thanks for the heads-up guys.

**Roknar**

CSm can get renegades and heretics with more siege equipment than you can shake a stick at. Doesn't help the IW decurion though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought Black Legion don't get much, but even they seem better off than IW.

**BrotherGecko**

Roknar wrote:
CSm can get renegades and heretics with more siege equipment than you can shake a stick at. Doesn't help the IW decurion though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought Black Legion don't get much, but even they seem better off than IW.

I would waste money on guardsmen lol. But SM can have whirlywinds so there is that lol. Also thunderfires.....basically SM are better at what IW do lol.

**Sersi**

techsoldaten wrote:
VeteranNoob wrote:

9 Emperor’s Children
must: only Luciius unique; need mk Slaanesh; only mk Slaamesh; VotLW; psykers & demons can take full from Slaanesh expanded discipline
gain: fueled by sensation: VotLW gain Fearless & FnP6+ (units w/icon of excess make that FnP4+), VotLW if slain n fight sub phase before it swings gets 1 immediate attack; Matsers Kakophoni: Noise Marines are troops
WT: gain Warrior; +2 Init; all 1 to FnP of WL & his unit; Gain Fear & melee opponents take fear on 3D6; +1 attack each team you lose a wound (returns if healed); can auto-pass look out sir!
relics: make D3 rolls on combat drugs; gun 12” S8,AP2, assault D6, mental trauma (before attack target takes ldsh test and f failed you re-roll these to-wound);soul snare weapons (to wound 6 is AP2/instant death; you have fear, enemies w/in6” -1 lash; bolt weapons gain blast, ignores cover and pinning; AP3 catatonic trance - target must pass ldsh test/wound or die
army: combat drugs! roll after deployment for all your non-vehicles
1- +1 WS
2- +1 BS
3- +1 Init
4- +1 S
5 - +1 T
6- +1 A
core: chaos warband, Kakophani (Lucius or Ch Lord, 3-6 noise marines—get split fire & all sonic weapons gain shred. If take 6 noise marines they also get +1 St guns)
command: lord of legion
aux: lost & damned + 8
obj: destroy enemy w/noise weapons; kill enemy in challenge; kill a unit falling back; Vp per unit fails morale, fear, pinning (max 3); your enemy picks obj marker and D3Vo when you take it; D3 VP if your enemy controls no objectives (improves)

3 - 6 Units of Fearless Noise Marines with FnP, split fire, shred and +1 S guns. While I would have liked to see them get relentless, this seems almost OP as is.

Just noticed, regular CSMs would get 4+ FnP with Icon of Excess, plus that +1 I. Or with Chosen... that's incredible.

It doesn't fix the Sonic Blasters salvo limitation. But that's still pretty darn good. Enhanced resilience and enhanced shooting in conjunction with some Daemonettes for assault and Emperors Children are rolling again.

**techsoldaten**

Just thinking, the spilt rule on pink horrors is probably what puts TSons on par with some of the other chapters at this point. Particularly DG and EC, they are just insanely powerful all of a sudden.

To everyone thinking BL got the short end, those are some very tough units they can take and the special rules make them a lot tougher. I am having a hard time seeing how they could be considered weak by any standard.

If you can take BL and ally in DG or EC, that would be one hell of a wrecking crew.

**Roknar**

It hasn't been said yet I think so let me do the honours. There some disspointing things in this book and not all legions are equally good, but god damn it! This book is still a game changer for CSM! In fluff and power.

**a fat guy**

How does the Night Fighting rule work for the Night Lords exactly? For example, I could just turn on Night Fighting for turn 3, and then it'd be gone the following turn?

Do they block out the sun somehow?

**Daedalus81**

techsoldaten wrote:
Just thinking, the spilt rule on pink horrors is probably what puts TSons on par with some of the other chapters at this point. Particularly DG and EC, they are just insanely powerful all of a sudden.

To everyone thinking BL got the short end, those are some very tough units they can take and the special rules make them a lot tougher. I am having a hard time seeing how they could be considered weak by any standard.

If you can take BL and ally in DG or EC, that would be one hell of a wrecking crew.

Eh, I don't think they're as great as people make them out to be (horrors). The other benefit of TS is many more formations with additional bonuses. No one will likely get rerolls on T5 termies (boring as hell to play since that is your whole army), but T5 termies are still a thing.

**Bulldogging**

Am I understanding it correctly, that if you want to play Thousand Sons primarily, you can get all the rules in "Traitors Hate"? Besides cool fluff, and daemon rules, you do not need the campaign book?

a fat guy wrote:

Do they block out the sun somehow?

**Daedalus81**

a fat guy wrote:
How does the Night Fighting rule work for the Night Lords exactly? For example, I could just turn on Night Fighting for turn 3, and then it'd be gone the following turn?

Do they block out the sun somehow?

Good question. I'd bet turn 1 only though.

**macluvin**

They gave Slaanesh the sex drugs and rock n roll back =D Because they can "shred" =D

**Roknar**

Just means you don't have to roll for nightfighting, so you are guaranteed first turn night fighting for what it's worth. All that does is give you stealth, which you already have as night lords detachments. You do get a +1 cover save though during night fighting. So they effectively have shrouded during turn 1.

**Matt.Kingsley**

techsoldaten wrote:
Just thinking, the spilt rule on pink horrors is probably what puts TSons on par with some of the other chapters at this point. Particularly DG and EC, they are just insanely powerful all of a sudden.

To everyone thinking BL got the short end, those are some very tough units they can take and the special rules make them a lot tougher. I am having a hard time seeing how they could be considered weak by any standard.

If you can take BL and ally in DG or EC, that would be one hell of a wrecking crew.

The Horrors aren't even Thousand Sons though, they're Chaos Daemons.

If the new Horrors make TSons good then they make every Legion good because every Legion can ally them in with a Chaos Daemons detachment.

**Roknar**

There's one thing that bothers me with this supplement. Just about everything is based on infantry and VotLW. Which is good, but vehicles don't get any love at all. Not even the IW ones. Unless I missed something.

**a fat guy**

So any takers on who "wins" this one?

I've gotta say, taking Obliterators as troops sounds awfully tasty...

But then again, I don't actually know the rules that well.

Could someone tell me if the Night Lord ones are good/bad? They're my main army.

**techsoldaten**

Roknar wrote:
It hasn't been said yet I think so let me do the honours. There some disspointing things in this book and not all legions are equally good, but god damn it! This book is still a game changer for CSM! In fluff and power.

We are still learning, but, yes, this would make CSMs a very tough faction.

I am thinking about what these armies could do when allied together. A Black Legion force consisting of Abaddon and Termies along with an Emperors Children force consisting of Noise Marines would Be able to overpower most other armies.

Of course, if we can also choose stuff from IA:13, that would be a huge thing. Let's see what we find out between now and when the book hits. Enjoying what I am reading but waiting to see what we find out.

**ZebioLizard2**

Roknar wrote:
There's one thing that bothers me with this supplement. Just about everything is based on infantry and VotLW. Which is good, but vehicles don't get any love at all. Not even the IW ones. Unless I missed something.

At least now we can have some CSM in our CSM armies.

**Rydria**

Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP, fearless and relentless but with a -1 to initiative.

**Roknar**

Rydria wrote:
Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP and fearless but with a -1 to initiative.

How are they better? The EC marines could end up with T5 and I5 with a 4+ fnp and fearless, so they're better on every front except for the lack of relentless.

**Rydria**

Roknar wrote:
Rydria wrote:
Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP and fearless but with a -1 to initiative.

How are they better? The EC marines could end up with T5 and I5 with a 4+ fnp and fearless, so they're better on every front except for the lack of relentless.

The death guard marine squad is 20 pts cheaper ?