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 Lockark wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Man combat drugs are really good, the only bad result honestly is the +1 initiative, since initiative 5 and 6 are more or less the same 90% of the time.

Also spawn being a auxiliary choice is awesome 30 pts to complete the decurion is nice.

The +1WS can also be bad in some situations counting on the unit or what army your fighting. If Your Fighting a WS3 army, then their is no difference between 4&5.

If it's +1WS on your chaos lord, that would also be kinda "meh" since he generally already has one of the higher WS in the game.


The +1BS also kinda sucks if you roll it on your deamon prince, spawn or Multalitors. lol

The real problem is you only make one roll for the Detachment and they all get the same bonus for Combat Drugs. Both +1 WS +1 I would okay if they only effected 1-2 units. But being I6, or gaining +1A or WS 5 on every unit in a primarily shooting army is allot less useful. Maybe if sonic blasters didn't have Salvo or we had drop pods or good assault vehicles to get into melee, or if Chosen had jump packs. But with everyone stuck with the same bonus, the chart is far to random to plan around. As it is we have a only 33% chance either +1T or +1 BS. Rather than at least a few of the units getting something good.

Well, looking at the scans there's an additional restriction on the Shriekwave artifact. Despite the fluff entry flat out stating its a Doom Siren it can't be used as one. Instead its a once per game use weapon, that can be fired in place of another weapon. I'd rather have a normal Doom Siren for 15 pts.

Oh from vet noob's post I thought it was a roll per unit not 1 roll per army. Is that how the current dark Eldar combat drugs work now? I thought they were still per unit also.

From the wording on chaos artefact "...can choose to take items from...", does this mean we can still choose the artefacts from the regular CSM codex?

 Lockark wrote:
Oh from vet noob's post I thought it was a roll per unit not 1 roll per army. Is that how the current dark Eldar combat drugs work now? I thought they were still per unit also.

I just saw the scans too, and yes, it is indeed just one roll for the entire detachment (excluding vehicles). I'm thinking of taking assault terminators with my Noise Marines, or cultists, which I think will make the roll useful for *someone*. I don't know how I feel about the One Roll thing though - it could be awesome or useless depending, as you say, but on the other hand, keeping track of stat changes across multiple units could be a bit of a drag, which might be why they did it that way...

The one-shot on the scream 'gun' artifact is also a little disappointing, as well as it being actually a Doom Siren, which may be a pain for me to model. I wish they'd be vague as to *what* the artifacts are (as with Seer's Bane for the TS) - it's not as if they supply model parts for them anyway, but I digress. One shot is annoying, but it'll probably only get used once per game anyway - with a 12" range, it'll likely be round 3 or more before you're able to use it, I think, most of the time. I'll use mine mostly to pop those pesky Dark Angel Termies who keep dropping next to my troops. Should make for a nasty surprise.

But we do have a lovely beam spell which does effectively the same thing, and now the Slaanesh discipline is actually worth rolling all out on, so with 2-3 sorcerers, you should get the lot. Even if you roll +1WS, you could use the spell to drop your enemy by -1WS and that will often make a difference. Also think of the spell which will give you FNP4+ to cultists, who can come back on a 4+ outflanking. And they'll get a random stat increase to boot. Slaaneshi cultists could turn out to be better than Plague zombies. Eat that Nurgle!

Oh, and BlissGiver is not a sword - it's another whip. Huffle. now I have to remodel my Daemon princess too :(

Overall though, I'm pleased. I've won games from casting Endurance on a unit of vanilla marines before (they held their ground from my opponent's Nose Marines and 3 Spawn all hacking at them at once, after taking a Predator shot too, for three rounds, after which my Daemon prince got all across the board to rescue them and win me the game) and a 4+FNP makes you solid against anything other than STR8 (with Armour ignoring) weapons. There's counters, but most of the time, we'll laugh at the enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Derp Angels Librarian wrote:
From the wording on chaos artefact "...can choose to take items from...", does this mean we can still choose the artefacts from the regular CSM codex?

That's how I read it, yes. So we can still play with the Burning Brand etc. This was also the case in the Black Legion and new Crimson Slaughter codexes too (as in, they can use the core CSM artifacts, not that *we* can use CS artifacts though).

The Fey Mallory wrote:

I just saw the scans too, and yes, it is indeed just one roll for the entire detachment (excluding vehicles). I'm thinking of taking assault terminators with my Noise Marines, or cultists, which I think will make the roll useful for *someone*. I don't know how I feel about the One Roll thing though - it could be awesome or useless depending, as you say, but on the other hand, keeping track of stat changes across multiple units could be a bit of a drag, which might be why they did it that way...

Yea, you might not be a one to play Thousand Sons then, given that you need to roll psychic powers for every single unit out there.

 Sersi wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Man combat drugs are really good, the only bad result honestly is the +1 initiative, since initiative 5 and 6 are more or less the same 90% of the time.

Also spawn being a auxiliary choice is awesome 30 pts to complete the decurion is nice.

The +1WS can also be bad in some situations counting on the unit or what army your fighting. If Your Fighting a WS3 army, then their is no difference between 4&5.

If it's +1WS on your chaos lord, that would also be kinda "meh" since he generally already has one of the higher WS in the game.


The +1BS also kinda sucks if you roll it on your deamon prince, spawn or Multalitors. lol

The real problem is you only make one roll for the Detachment and they all get the same bonus for Combat Drugs. Both +1 WS +1 I would okay if they only effected 1-2 units. But being I6, or gaining +1A or WS 5 on every unit in a primarily shooting army is allot less useful. Maybe if sonic blasters didn't have Salvo or we had drop pods or good assault vehicles to get into melee, or if Chosen had jump packs. But with everyone stuck with the same bonus, the chart is far to random to plan around. As it is we have a only 33% chance either +1T or +1 BS. Rather than at least a few of the units getting something good.

Well, looking at the scans there's an additional restriction on the Shriekwave artifact. Despite the fluff entry flat out stating its a Doom Siren it can't be used as one. Instead its a once per game use weapon, that can be fired in place of another weapon. I'd rather have a normal Doom Siren for 15 pts.

But if it's a Doom Siren, does it then get the benefits of +1 Strength from the formation? or from the spell? Are there any other noise weapon artifacts which might too? imagine it - D6 STR 10 AP2 hits, with possible rerolls (like you'd need them)...

It depends, if it's FaQ'd in a similar way to Pedro Kantor's relic storm bolter Dorn's Arrow was (treating it as a bolt weapon), then it would count as a noise weapon.

Given its fluff I'd treat it as a Noise Weapon, but that isn't RAW, just HIWPI.


It's also interesting to note that and EC character with the drug relic gets D3+1 drugs when in the Meta Detachment because its entry says it stacks with the Command Benefit.

Imagine how bad you'd feel if you rolled the +1I or +1WS 4 times.
Of course, rolling +1T 4 times would be hilarious in the other direction. "Why yes, my Chaos Lord is indeed more Tough than a Great Unclean One, why do you ask?".

 BoomWolf wrote:

The Fey Mallory wrote:

I just saw the scans too, and yes, it is indeed just one roll for the entire detachment (excluding vehicles). I'm thinking of taking assault terminators with my Noise Marines, or cultists, which I think will make the roll useful for *someone*. I don't know how I feel about the One Roll thing though - it could be awesome or useless depending, as you say, but on the other hand, keeping track of stat changes across multiple units could be a bit of a drag, which might be why they did it that way...

Yea, you might not be a one to play Thousand Sons then, given that you need to roll psychic powers for every single unit out there.

Lol. Indeed. And before I saw the EC rules, I was debating whether to play TS! I do love the magic phase, and the detail on the models, but Slaanesh appeals to me too much, and I still think the Slaanesh discipline is better - I prefer having more blessings than witchfires. Loved the TS models, but their whole army seems geared to sitting 12"s away to have any real impact. Maybe 24", but either way, it's far too close for an army which is weak to massed attacks (which EC do so well) and unsuited to melee (no 2nd CC weapon, no grenades on Rubrics). Roll bad on those Change spells you're forced to take, and fail to roll a decent defensive blessing, and you're screwed, and with so few units to play with, it becomes an army who'll either be awesome or feeble based on spell rolls. Could make for some dispiriting games. This is just me, however...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
It depends, if it's FaQ'd in a similar way to Pedro Kantor's relic storm bolter Dorn's Arrow was (treating it as a bolt weapon), then it would count as a noise weapon.

Given its fluff I'd treat it as a Noise Weapon, but that isn't RAW, just HIWPI.


It's also interesting to note that and EC character with the drug relic gets D3+1 drugs when in the Meta Detachment because its entry says it stacks with the Command Benefit.

Imagine how bad you'd feel if you rolled the +1I or +1WS 4 times.
Of course, rolling +1T 4 times would be hilarious in the other direction. "Why yes, my Chaos Lord is indeed more Tough than a Great Unclean One, why do you ask?".

That would be awesome If the Shockwave Doom Siren does count - then it'll also get *shred* so you'll not care about the leadership roll anyway.
Seems the perfect counter to Nurgle Terminators (STR10 denies FNP, rerolls to wound at that level counters T5, you just need to be able to hit with it). If only we had access to Prescience... one advantage TS *does* have.

So the way I'm reading it, A Tide of Traitors and Cult Uprising are 2 distinct rules so you roll for both every time a cultist unit is destroyed.

If you succeed on your Tide of Traitors roll a new unit is created that is part of the Lost and the Damned formation which is also part of the Alpha Legion Insurgency Force detachment, so if it gets destroyed you roll for both rules again.

If you succeed on your Cult Uprising roll a new unit is created that is part of the Alpha Legion Insurgency Force detachment but not part of the Lost and the Damned formation, so if it gets destroyed you only roll once for Cult Uprising.

If you succeed on both rolls you get 2 new units - 1 that is part of the Lost and the Damned and another that is part of the Alpha Legion Insurgency Force.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
So the way I'm reading it, A Tide of Traitors and Cult Uprising are 2 distinct rules so you roll for both every time a cultist unit is destroyed.

If you succeed on your Tide of Traitors roll a new unit is created that is part of the Lost and the Damned formation which is also part of the Alpha Legion Insurgency Force detachment, so if it gets destroyed you roll for both rules again.

If you succeed on your Cult Uprising roll a new unit is created that is part of the Alpha Legion Insurgency Force detachment but not part of the Lost and the Damned formation, so if it gets destroyed you only roll once for Cult Uprising.

If you succeed on both rolls you get 2 new units - 1 that is part of the Lost and the Damned and another that is part of the Alpha Legion Insurgency Force.

Oh wow, that's a thing. Holy respawning hordes of heresy, Batman! In this case it just seems to be a rerollable 4+ to get the cultists back ( if I'm remembering correctly that tide of traitors is a 4+) since they are already part of the legion detatchment. I could definitely see this getting FAQ'd to see if this is how it actually works, and if it does that makes AL just even more awesome.

That said I've still excited to play more of my EC CSM.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Fey Mallory wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Man combat drugs are really good, the only bad result honestly is the +1 initiative, since initiative 5 and 6 are more or less the same 90% of the time.

Also spawn being a auxiliary choice is awesome 30 pts to complete the decurion is nice.

The +1WS can also be bad in some situations counting on the unit or what army your fighting. If Your Fighting a WS3 army, then their is no difference between 4&5.

If it's +1WS on your chaos lord, that would also be kinda "meh" since he generally already has one of the higher WS in the game.


The +1BS also kinda sucks if you roll it on your deamon prince, spawn or Multalitors. lol

The real problem is you only make one roll for the Detachment and they all get the same bonus for Combat Drugs. Both +1 WS +1 I would okay if they only effected 1-2 units. But being I6, or gaining +1A or WS 5 on every unit in a primarily shooting army is allot less useful. Maybe if sonic blasters didn't have Salvo or we had drop pods or good assault vehicles to get into melee, or if Chosen had jump packs. But with everyone stuck with the same bonus, the chart is far to random to plan around. As it is we have a only 33% chance either +1T or +1 BS. Rather than at least a few of the units getting something good.

Well, looking at the scans there's an additional restriction on the Shriekwave artifact. Despite the fluff entry flat out stating its a Doom Siren it can't be used as one. Instead its a once per game use weapon, that can be fired in place of another weapon. I'd rather have a normal Doom Siren for 15 pts.

But if it's a Doom Siren, does it then get the benefits of +1 Strength from the formation? or from the spell? Are there any other noise weapon artifacts which might too? imagine it - D6 STR 10 AP2 hits, with possible rerolls (like you'd need them)...

No, fluff wise they describe it as an ornate Doom Siren. But its not actually a sonic weapon, so no the formation bonus. Unless a FAQ later makes it a Doom Siren, its one shot only. If it wasn't one shot you could put it on a Biker lord in an escorting biker unit with an icon; or on a winged Daemon Prince the 12" range wouldn't prevent you from using multiple times.

 Sersi wrote:
No, fluff wise they describe it as an ornate Doom Siren.

Ah. Finally. An ornate doom siren.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
No, fluff wise they describe it as an ornate Doom Siren.

Ah. Finally. An ornate doom siren.

Because regular Doom Sirens are soooooo plebian...

 Chaos Legionnaire wrote:
@techsoldaten: That sounds like a nice plan with the noise marines. Actually, you shouldn't even have to move the cultists out of the way.

Aren't sonic weapons 'ignores cover?'

Yes, yes they are, thank you for pointing that out.

So, 6 squads of Sonic Noise Marines with str5 weapons, Shred, Split Fire, and 4+ FNP marching up the board behind a CAD consisting of a Dark Apostle and 6 MSU cultists squads.

Just imagining 342 shots and what kind of space it can clear from the table.

Edit: yes, I am aware that's 2640 points before the cultists. The word I used is imagining.

 Ir0njack wrote:
Woohoo! 2+ rerollable IW daemon prince is a Go!

Where's the re-roll come from?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Woohoo! 2+ rerollable IW daemon prince is a Go!

Where's the re-roll come from?

Daemon of Tzeentch, re-roll all failed saves if a 1.

 Lockark wrote:
Oh from vet noob's post I thought it was a roll per unit not 1 roll per army. Is that how the current dark Eldar combat drugs work now? I thought they were still per unit also.

One roll per army, DE works the same.

I'm also noticing a distinct lack of new relics that kill your own guys (becuz Chaos). They must have written this while Kelly was out on vacay.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Woohoo! 2+ rerollable IW daemon prince is a Go!

Where's the re-roll come from?

Daemon of Tzeentch, re-roll all failed saves if a 1.

Can Iron Warriors take a Tzeentch Daemon Prince because being dedicated to Tzeentch in this case is not a "Mark of Chaos"?

 ph34r wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Woohoo! 2+ rerollable IW daemon prince is a Go!

Where's the re-roll come from?

Daemon of Tzeentch, re-roll all failed saves if a 1.

Can Iron Warriors take a Tzeentch Daemon Prince because being dedicated to Tzeentch in this case is not a "Mark of Chaos"?

Correct - Daemon of X =/= Mark of X.

So Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Alpha Legion can still take Daemon Princes.

double post

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I'm also noticing a distinct lack of new relics that kill your own guys (becuz Chaos). They must have written this while Kelly was out on vacay.

No, the Orks stole them all.

I'm so glad I painted my Undivided Prince as a Night Lord.... Now i am the proud owner of my own Cheese-tastic 2+ armor, 2+ jink, 5+ Invul killa monster!

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm so glad I painted my Undivided Prince as a Night Lord.... Now i am the proud owner of my own Cheese-tastic 2+ armor, 2+ jink, 5+ Invul killa monster!

Well, you can't have a Undivided Prince anymore, and if you make it a Nurgle Prince it got a 2+ jink anyways!

 Sersi wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Man combat drugs are really good, the only bad result honestly is the +1 initiative, since initiative 5 and 6 are more or less the same 90% of the time.

Also spawn being a auxiliary choice is awesome 30 pts to complete the decurion is nice.

The +1WS can also be bad in some situations counting on the unit or what army your fighting. If Your Fighting a WS3 army, then their is no difference between 4&5.

If it's +1WS on your chaos lord, that would also be kinda "meh" since he generally already has one of the higher WS in the game.


The +1BS also kinda sucks if you roll it on your deamon prince, spawn or Multalitors. lol

The real problem is you only make one roll for the Detachment and they all get the same bonus for Combat Drugs. Both +1 WS +1 I would okay if they only effected 1-2 units. But being I6, or gaining +1A or WS 5 on every unit in a primarily shooting army is allot less useful. Maybe if sonic blasters didn't have Salvo or we had drop pods or good assault vehicles to get into melee, or if Chosen had jump packs. But with everyone stuck with the same bonus, the chart is far to random to plan around. As it is we have a only 33% chance either +1T or +1 BS. Rather than at least a few of the units getting something good.

Emperor's Children combat drugs are slightly better than Dark Eldar- 5 are the same, but EC get +1 BS, while one of the DE options is +1 Ld.

People are gonna abuse the hell out of that Many Heads of the Hydra rule, aren't they?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
People are gonna abuse the hell out of that Many Heads of the Hydra rule, aren't they?

Just wait til you come across that one gak head who loads his dice. Abuse unlike any other.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm so glad I painted my Undivided Prince as a Night Lord.... Now i am the proud owner of my own Cheese-tastic 2+ armor, 2+ jink, 5+ Invul killa monster!

Well, you can't have a Undivided Prince anymore, and if you make it a Nurgle Prince it got a 2+ jink anyways!

Yeah, but if he makes it Tzeentch with the Night Lord's Relic Armour he's getting a 2+ rerollable, 2+ rerollable jink and a 5++ rerolling 1s.

Suck on that Tau and Eldar.

And to think Traditio was complaining about Magnus...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm so glad I painted my Undivided Prince as a Night Lord.... Now i am the proud owner of my own Cheese-tastic 2+ armor, 2+ jink, 5+ Invul killa monster!

Well, you can't have a Undivided Prince anymore, and if you make it a Nurgle Prince it got a 2+ jink anyways!

Yeah, but if he makes it Tzeentch with the Night Lord's Relic Armour he's getting a 2+ rerollable, 2+ rerollable jink and a 5++ rerolling 1s.

Suck on that Tau and Eldar.

And to think Traditio was complaining about Magnus...

Traditio was complaining that CSM were no longer going to be stock punching bags for THE STORY.

CSM still have to pay for Marks and there's a lot of restrictions in place and we still are somewhat overpointed and using the crutch of the Boon system.

However, Traitor Legions is a huge step in the right direction. Right back to the 3.5 days of variation being good again. OK, maybe we don't quite have Sonic Terminators, Bikes and Predators and it kinda sucks that existing Thousand Sons players can't use their meta-detachment unless they were lucky enough to vanilla-arm all their Terminators etc and can counts-as but still, it'll be nice to see actual CSM,

In fact, the hardest decision I'm having at the moment with my 2k plans is...

Run the Death Guard meta detachment for rerolling FNP and Shrouded at 18"....or run a Black Crusade meta-detachment to capitalise on the Boon bonuses from the Chaos Warband?

Either way it's going to be Death Guard - just have to assess if FNP rerolls on a 1 have more value than ramping up characters early on.

A point, the death guard doesnt give Shrouded, gives stealth (unless i am missing something). Believe me, I WISH it gives shrouded instead hahahaha. Then sure will be an amazing bonus xD

So I think that use the black crusade from traitor's hate is a viable option on the DG case.

You will have a demon prince and a chaos lord (both with feel no pain, yay!) and each turn you can throw once on the DM or twice on the chaos lord, ignoring spawn result.
If pay 10tps for each, that is 1 extra throw for the DM and 2 on the chaos lord before start the game.

Indeed the boon system is not good, but with so many throws hope something good comes.

In any case if you use a legion, at least now the basic space marine is a bit less terrible unit. Thats makes warband a bit more useful..... Well....unless you play word bearer...the poor guys sucks so hard hahahah (and is a shame)

As offtopic, think that gives the puscleaver or the pandemic staff to a DG demon prince is so cool. Wound at 2+ rerolling the failed (unless you are facing MC or really hard guys) is interesting. The staff will help him to break vehicles or , if you make him a psychic, will help to do more damage while keep him on air thanks to the template